You guys are polluters. Retire your ride!

Anyone heard the ads on the radio for Retire Your Ride?

They start with the claim that on average, 1995 model year and older vehicles produce 19 times more smog-forming emissions than 2004 or newer models. In a province with mandatory emissions testing this seems a little bogus to me!?

I just checked out that web site. If you retire your ride you can get:
* a free tow;
* free transit passes;
* discount memberships for car sharing programs;
* discounts on bicycles;
* discounts on new or used vehicles at participating dealerships
* 1 year CAA membership
* $300 cash

Every time I heard one of those ads I think of how much I'd rather be driving the DSM at that moment.

My 1990 just passed UNDER the limits of a 1998 vehicle. (Have they lowered the limits at all since then?)

Steve, your post is what made me think of this.

The last time I tested my old 95 it was pretty clean. I'd be surprised if my newer daily driver does any better. That's the part I wonder about, are 2004+ vehicles really that much cleaner or is there some fuzzy math going on here?

I think what REALLY needs to be taken into account, though, is that we're not your typical car owners. I spent more than a couple days making sure my fuel trims were in check, and all my vacuum lines, etc. were connected. Your average driver won't do that.

I've just moved back to the area of Quinte West, so I will now have to E-Test my car this year when I renew. Yay.

All this "green" technology is expensive for us consumers. Does it even make much of a difference compared to the early 90s vehicles?
I think about the rear O2 sensor that doesn't even last as long as the cat it's there to monitor! What a joke.

So far any talon I etested have always been clean enough they barely register. My 97 civic wasnt as clean as my 92 talon ran.

Got to etest my galant next week I am kinda worried but like steve said, I am going over everything making sure theres no vaccum leaks. Once I get my plugs I will change them and the wires. Oil change has 234 km

Guys just to give you guys a heads up.. The whole E-test program is changing in 2011/2012.. Shops had a contract up to 2012 with the current machines.. new machines (possibly) and new method of testing is coming out.. I will keep you guys informed when I get more information..Just going to get harder to pass and I believe newer cars than 95 will no longer require dyno and they will require obd2 check

Every car has different limits..If a car has a upgraded engine its considered a "hotrod" and its impossible to fail.. so those lucky honda Fu** always pass ahah

The chart I read only had it broken down by gross weight, and model year...

How about a 2.4L swapped into the DSM (4G64 / G4CS)?

yeah as in every Camry has there limits and every talon has theres I never meant 1 car individually I will double check how its done though

yeah ahah as long as the engine did NOT come with the car not sure which dsm'r would want that

It's just a stroker block.. The head and basically everything else would be from a 4G63. It's more common than you think!

It's QUITE possible that the chart I was reading was fairly old.

I HAVE read a part of the Drive Clean "act" that states something along the lines of:

"Any engine swap done after Jan. 1/1999 must meet the standards of the model year for the vehicle it's going in." (Quotes are simply me paraphrasing.)

In other words, (IF I'm correct here) it doesn't mattter if the engine was available for that vehicle or not. If it's done after 1999, it has to meet the emissions requirements for the car it's going into. Again, these things can be a little wordy, and I may be basing this on old info. I've got a 2.0 4G63, so I didn't bother looking into it too much.

Good To Know but im sure that wont qualify if the head is the same.. hey most people wont even know



I will check that out tonight and let you know what It is NOW.. because when I took my test for a emission inspection technician about 3 years ago.. It said in the book any vehicle with a engine that the car did NOT come with from factory is considered a "HOTROD" ...meaning generally the test limits are set wayyyy higher.. but hey they are always changing stuff around so you never know.....I will double check that tonight

We got rid of my gf's old beater last year through retire your ride. Bad tranny, needed all new suspension, no brakes, bad alternator, rusted to hell, no battery and they still gave $300 for it and came and got it for free.

Funny thing is, it still passed etest only a few months before so basically, they gave good money for an environmentally friendly piece of sh!t!

That's my plan, I will see how it goes.

Here's the actually quote I was referring to. (HOWEVER, I can't find this anywhere on the Drive Clean info site anywhere. I've only been able to find it quotes on other UBBs, so, I'm not sure how current the info is:


"A hot rod that receives a motor replacement on or after January 1, 1999, shall receive a motor designed to meet emission standards at least as stringent as those achieved by the original motor with all its original emission control equipment attached and functioning, and the replacement motor shall have the original catalytic converter and all the original emission control equipment, or equivalent replacements, included or usually included with the replacement motor by the manufacturer of the motor. O. Reg. 361/98, s. 4 (2); O. Reg. 86/99, s. 3."



Edit: found it in a more official capacity:

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_980361_e.htm

Ok..I thought I had the books at home..But I guess they are at the shop.. and from personal testing experience:

1. You cannot test ANY CAR without these things as mentioned above by Steve

original emission control equipment attached and functioning, and the replacement motor shall have the original catalytic converter and all the original emission control equipment, or equivalent replacements, included or usually included with the replacement motor by the manufacturer of the motor

2. The LIMITS are usually WAY more than the original limit..I remember seeing it like 5x more again I will re-confirm tomorrow

I just checked the driveclean results for my 2002 Miata and it does appear the limits have been lowered. My most recent results were:

2500 RPM: HC 44 (limit 66) CO 0.11 (limit 0.37) NO 2 (limit 505)
idle: HC 22 (limit 150) CO 0.03 (limit 0.70) NO N/A (limit N/A)

Comparing with Steve's results for his 1990:

2500 RPM: HC 68 (limit 200) CO 0.65 (limit 1.00)
idle : HC 125 (limit 200) CO 0.70 (limit 1.00)

So Steve, you would have failed at the 2002 limits, but not by much. But your results are 1.5 x and 5.7 x worse for HC, and 5.9 x and 23.3 x worse for CO. I'm actually quite surprised those numbers are so high!! There goes my argument!

Those limits for the 1990 are decent.. Some cars have really HIGH limits compared to those

LOL! So, I AM a polluter! (relatively speaking...)

I don't like the sounds of that. I know alot of states already do the OBDII scan but IMO thats dumb. Who cares if my OBDII tests are all complete, if my tail pipe measures clean, then the car should be considered a pass.

How easy it should be to pass the OBDII test with link..
I hear you Daren - it's a kick in the junk to work so hard and make your car pass legitimately.

Deep, can you run my FWD as AWD?
Or at least test mode, to dial it in...

V2 is easy to pass OBDII, with a Palm. V2 laptop & V3 don't have this "function". My car has always passed legitimately but not sure if I now show all OBDII tests as complete.

Looks like alot of States that have the OBDII scan, allow one or two as not showing complete but will still pass if you pass a tail pipe test. That would be ideal but sounds like that will be changing in the US in the future as well (so I'm sure we'll be soon to follow). When I was reading through a page on US OBDII testing they were talking about some cars, that even in stock form have a hard time to get them to complete all the tests, one of the vehicles that was mentioned, 96-98 Mitsu's

damn that sucks! You'll be forced to have all those expensive emissions sensors working (instead of just fixing the actual emissions problem and be done with it).

It's just a matter of time before someone creates a little computer that splices off your OBDII port and returns "PASS" for all the tests.

Rob your car isn't passing on the dyno ? lol and yeah I will probably get fired and the machine will get shutdown ahaha so Im sure I cant do that..

I tested my G4CS a few years back and decided to mention to the shop that it should be tested under the "HOTROD" category. They tested it allowing higher limits but nothing to extreme. I believe my 2500 RPM HC limit was 300(maybe 400) nothing like 5 times higher - I questioned the limits but the tester told me that he could only goes as high as the highest 2.4L(mitsu) allowances in the book(1980 year I believe). The last time I tested it I didn't even bother mentioning the larger engine cause I knew it would pass anyway.

It would seem like the "hotrod" category would be more beneficial to the 350ci S10 pickups and such.

If I am reading this correctly,

For this: I would just tell the emissions place that the car had a swap done before 1999.

Deep, I'm sure I could make it pass in test mode
It's the going to the rollers, paying and having to try over and over again that I'm not looking forward to.. Who knows maybe it'll pass on the first try!

Cool.. and about the hot rod thing. The last one i remember doing was a Jeep that had a v8. anyways I will do a test and abort it and see the readings of hot rod in pretest mode and then post some pics up.. the only thing is i cant do this for a couple of weeks the machine is not working

A few years ago, I talked to the drive clean guys about testing a Neon with a 400+hp 2.5l turbo motor from a 89 daytona. He said it would be no problem, It would fit the hotrod catogory and that would raise the limits to a worst case limit for any modified car legally allowed on the road. Whether it was a 4banger or a big V8.
That limit still included a cat tho.

The Drive Clean program was found to have no real effect on polution and the machines were found to be inaccurate up to 50 % of the time . The governments own undercover checks found cars that may have failed in the morning would pass in the afternoon .
Some Drive Clean centers discovered additives that made the car run hotter burned cleaner and sold people "Juice" to make the cars pass . With Diesels it is as easy as adding a small amount of gasoline to the tank to make the worst smoker pass . The province is allowing the program to continue only to let the shops that bought the smog dynos recoupe their investment .

Just another example of the public getting F under the green banner .

I am soooooo happy I don't have to Etest any of my vehicles. Thanks to maintaining my home town address for all these years. But when I was selling my talon I did have it etested. It did very well, except it didnt have an evap system or EGR. No one gave me any grief, I also don't think they knew what they were looking for. Made 375awhp and passed an etest with flying colours. But it had a very fresh motor, which I think was the key. It had a bullet style 3 inch race cat.

I went to the MTO this morning, thinking that I could get a trip permit for the Talon. I had the illusion that we are allowed two trip permits per vehicle per calendar year - boy was I wrong! It's actually two trip permits to a validation So since I used two permits last summer, "the news isn't good".

I'm tempted to just go to the nearest DriveClean facility and try my luck. I'll probably get a invalid permit ticket on the way there or back

Ugh I'm not even sure If I could pass this, after my build is done I hope it gets tuned properly (KEVIN!!) haha

If you're using a good 02 sensor, and you're within the adjustment range of whatever ECU you're using, you should be fine.

If you have something to tune with, tune it, or tell it you have larger injectors. My FWD was nowhere near the limit, even with a cat, so I had ECU+ back in September, and I just told it I had 510cc injectors rather then the stock 450ccs I actually have. Once I passed with flying colours, I set it back down to 450 and went home.

Another risky way to do it would be drive to their parking lot, swap out your injectors for something smaller and pray nothing will go wrong while they test it.

Drive Clean rip off story

http://www.apa.ca/template.asp?SectionID=3&ArticleID=5

Yes but too lean will also make it fail. I am FWD so they will run it on the rollers (not as easy to pass).
Such a small change to injectors, the ECU fuel trims should compensate for anyways. I have the tools to tune it but I don't have the time or valid permit to get it done at this moment. Now if I had 10 days it would be a different story!

Keep it beautiful!

Does the car have to have a motor in it to get the Cash?

PLEASE NOTE: Eligible participants must be owners of 1995 or older model year vehicles that are in running condition and have been registered and insured in Canada for the previous consecutive 6 months.

My car is a 97 fwd and it passed emissions with flying colors .