You guys think I'm good for mid 12's in the spring, list.

-Suspension techniques bushing and motor mount kit.

-Small 16G.

-2G Ported Manifold.

-3 inch exhaust, no cattie.

-Apex S-AFC. Dyno tuned.

-High flow fuel pump.

-MBC set to 22 PSI. (race gas)

-FMIC (maybe) (got to find the $ for this)

-Stock injectors.

-Open air K&N.

-Yokohama A00R2's (road race tires, R compound)

i'm aiming for mid 12's, you think I'll get them? I'm a confident (not cocky)driver. I *think* I know how to launch traction limited vehicles.

Let me know.

thanks, ronnie

I think you'll need proper injectors if you want to reach 12s at 22psi without needing a new engine. Also, depending on how "high flow" your pump is, you should think about an adjustable FPR since there's a good change it'll out flow the stock FPR and cause tuning difficulties. (although the increased pressure might help with your lack of injectors )

The only other issue is what you mean by 3" exhaust? Do you have a downpipe? What about the O2 sensor housing?

Anyways, it looks like the car is shaping up quite nicely.

12's?????????????

Maybe, but that's hard to see it happend, my point of view. I can see mid to high 13's.

With stock injectors your limited to 18psi maybe 19psi with a stock turbo.
With a 16G, it will be less than that.

It depends, how good of a driver you are? The car, any car, is only as good as it's driver. I personally agree with Carlos.

Guys have made it into the low 13s on stock turbos and intercoolers, so there's no problem there.

According to Buschur, you need a good clutch, fuel pump, some porting, a 2g manifold, boost control, and a catless exhaust.

In my opinion your setup will be good for high 12s if you get a good clutch (an act2100 would do). Maybe even a bit quicker. This is all on a stock turbo and intercooler too... with your 16g and a frontmount I think you're definitely good for better times... or at least your car is.

But as was said, the car is nothing without a driver. (just look at ppg )

[ January 23, 2002: Message edited by: Darko Miodrag ]

Darko, you bastard

you mention dyno tuned?
what did you get at the wheels?

1/4 mile times are all relevant to who is driving. Yes I may be a bad example. I have what Buschur says should be an 11 second car (mid 11's) and yet my best is a full second slower than that...

I know that it's a long shot, but, just maybe, i'll make it.

The AFC is not dyno tuned as yet, but it will be. As for right now, it's the seat of the pants tuning. Not the brightest idea, but i'm waiting to get my three inch downpipe before ploppin the dollars on tuning on the dyno.

Fuel pump...I'm deciding on what I want right now. I'm still stoked on the S-AFC though.

As for FMIC, i don't think it will be happening. Not until mid summer at least. I'm hoping to go without upgrading the injectors. The only reason is that i want to tune NOW and not later. I live check to check and it all goes into the car. I do have a set of nippon denso 550's in unknown condition sitting in my garage. i pulled them out of the J-spec 13B Block i had for the RX7. We'll see. I don't want to run "unknowns" in my car.

i do need that clutch though. Darko... You heard my clutch burnout at Hong Kong the other week.

We'll see, I'll let you guys know how the dyno goes next week or around there.

As for driving...I guess, I've always done ok at the track. the added traction at the strip throws me off in the beginning every time. But i soon get used to it. I granny it out far too much for teh first couple of passes.

thanks for the replies guys. Any other ones, be appreciated too.

the car is shaping up. Amazing what a 16G and a MBC can do for your boredom. Makes me not miss my rex so much. The dyno will tell, so will the E.T.s. too much talk.

thanks, ronnie

Mid twelves will be exceedingly difficult to attain, mostly because you're FWD. The power is not the issue, it will always be there. I have seen a 12.5 at 126mph on a Big16G in a FWD. You will need a launch similar to a good AWD launch to get there.

Well, I would strongly suggest 550 or higher injectors, a FPR and get rid of those balance shafts.

I went 13.2@105 (with a better driver that mph is good for 12's) with the same mods you have listed minus the AFC and balance shafts, and I was running 17psi. With the 16g and 17psi I was/am really pushing the injectors, I will be getting a FPR for this season.

I would also suggest a good set of slicks since you are a FWD traction will be your biggest enemy.

You can pull 12's no problem. Just make sure you get good tires, and a good clutch. Run 116 octane gas and get BPR7es plugs.

I ran 12.67@106.6 with a stock turbo on a 1993. With stock injectors, home hacked MAS, UIC pipe, bone stock intercooler, 1g manifold and 1g o2 (ported of course), and of course 21 psi.

Just take out your headlight, run 21 psi and the race gas. Most of the power came from leaning my car out. I only have a 190 lph fuel pump but I still had to hack the MAS just a bit and lean the car out 17%-20% at the higher rev's (with stock injectors). I was still running 0.86v on the multi-meter, I was going to try and lean in out more but time was running out.

Even with a 2.0 short time you should still get high 12's.

Don't sweat it, its in the bag!

Good-luck.

Bali, was that with an exhaust?

Um he's FWD. A 2.0 60ft is a reallly really great time and I doubt acheiveable with the tires he's suggesting on any Canadian tracks.

If you are a good driver you will be in the low 13's upper 12 range dpending on tuning and condition of your car. 12s are certainly not a sure thing with those mods for a FWD.

I also have to highly recommend a good fuel pump and 550s.

[ January 24, 2002: Message edited by: Mike Jackson ]

i don't think I'll be getting a 2.0 60ft time anytime soon without running full slicks. Those A00R's are good tires, but not meant for teh hard launch, they will stick a lot better tahn your average 'performance' tire though. I like my clutch too much to slip her out for that long.

Well, I'll take low 13's to high 12's. As long as I can see a MPH close to 110 or over preferably, I'll be happy.

We'll see. i want to achieve this on stock injectors though. Maybe that's not so bright, but at least i can try.

That S-AFC will be helping me out alot in the fuel delivery section. Hopefully, I can get it tuned right.

Thanks for the tips, encouragments, reality checks, and so forth. Any other comments appreciated.

Thanks. ronnie

"That S-AFC will be helping me out alot in the fuel delivery section.

Actually not much at all on it's own.

You don't think the pump and the AFC will be helping me at all? just wondering.

You don't really have any mods that warrant an SAFC yet... (ie: injectors, hacked MAF...)

Well, I got it for $350. i couldn't pass it up.

I forgot to mention, my MAF is hacked, sorry, i should have listed that.

Oh well, i'm happy with it.

It would alo be a good idea to upgrade to a -6 line from the fuel filter to the fuel rail. The stock lines are only god for 2L/min I think.

That is a good idea, i can't believe I never thought about that. Funny, the things you forget to upgrade in teh process.

Darko - I run open 2.5" downpipe at the track, I remove my cat.

In my opinion your stock fuel line should be fine for what your trying to run. As for needing an AFC, it is a must even with stock MAS and upgrade fuel pump. I used to run my car at 0.78v stock, but when I upgrade the pump it would run at 0.99v without the hacked mas or AFC. The problem is that too much air comes through the metered portion of the MAS, hence car runs richer. So you need to either 1) hack mas and bring in unmetered air or 2) use electronics to reduce the meter's signal, or combination of both.

I know a guy in the US who ran 115mph through the stock fuel lines no problem, if you plan to go 11's then upgrade otherwise don't waste your money. The only way you could justifiably buy an upgraded fuel line is if you hooked up a fuel pressure guage and saw it drop off in pressure during a WOT run in 3rd/4th gear under high boost. The upgrade fuel line is to ensure you can maintain the required rail pressure.

As for getting 2.0 shorts, I met a guy from NJ when I bought my talon who had a FWD laser. This guy ran low 12's stock turbo. He had re-thread tires, and run a dual setting boost control. The concept was run less boost off the line, and then run higher boost during 3/4th gears. He ran a strong 111/112 mph on stock turbo, you should walk those MPH with 16G.

Good luck.

I Don't mean to be offensive, but I don't think you should be telling outstanding members of the board, or members who have done all this and much more anyway, what they should be doing or what must be done. Mike and Steve, as well as myself all have FWD's and more mods then you have listed and are not in the 12's. Don't get me wrong it's maybe possible but going to be very hard and highly unlikely to see a 12s quarter with those mods. You might see good speeds but your gonna hop, SPIN, pull....damn awd guys! Don't think just because someone else can do something you will, you might be setting yourself up for dissapointment, in turn opening your wallet

Brett

I strongly agree with Brett, with only those mods I can't see 12's happening.
Don't get me wrong, if you do 12's with only those mods, I will be the first one to congradulate you.
I just don't want you to keep your hopes up, and them end up being disappointed.
Like I said before, I can see you doing, mid, to high 13's.
But anyways, I hope you can crack 12's, best of luck

Now I know why I don't want to post on this board.

Brett- I gave my opinion and didn't tell anyone what to do so Brett what you said is offensive. If you had clearly read my post you would have seen that. Raymond asked for opinions I gave mine if it contradicts with your expertise in Talons well it really doesn't matter, it's still my experience.

Raymond - Go to www.boostedperformance.com, the NJ guys name is David Morgan. I spoke with this guy in 1998 he was running low 12's then on stock turbo.

So Brett, I will bow down to you canadian FWD gods, and pass on what I beleive to be usefull information.

Well if that's ok with you Brett??

[ January 25, 2002: Message edited by: Bali Minhas ]

"IT IS A MUST"

"DON'T MEAN TO BE OFFENSIVE"

I may have taken you the wrong way, we are coversing threw text! I replied with "DON'T... for a reason ,, in case I had taken your post the wrong way. which I did, I got you and ronnie confused. But seeing as I'm posting again I think your on the right track just keep leaning it out! an AFC is not a MUST there are other ways. especially with only a few mods, yes it's one of the better ways but you can't assume everyone can afford a VPC,AFC..ect (I know he already has one. but for future referance).

You started out the right way. Explaining yourself, then what happened? Yah were both home on a Friday night, but that's no reason to attack!

I do cincearly appologize for offending you. I wasn't contradicting your ideas, just saying those times are hard to get.
Give yourself a pat on the back for acheiving them.

[ January 25, 2002: Message edited by: Brett Ter Smitte ]

So when you said DON'T was that..

"..but I don't think you should be telling "

like I said if you read the post:

"...it is a must even with stock MAS and upgrade fuel pump. I used to run my car at 0.78v stock, but when I upgrade the pump it would run at 0.99v without the hacked mas or AFC. "

I don't want to play wording games with you, so I will accept you apology.

Quick coaching note:
Your post reads:
"..we are coversing threw text.."
It is spelt through, because I don't think you physically threw it at me.

and

"..give you some information, TOO HELP YOU.."
should read " TO HELP YOU"

I am glad you are big enough to admit your wrong.

Cheers,

Bali

Got all that, Ronnie? :rolleyes: Possible but unlikely...maybe use THE FORCE

Yah my spelling is crap sorry I was editing while you guys posted.

Chris Chewie says hi!

[ January 25, 2002: Message edited by: Brett Ter Smitte ]

Now you have too many people telling you a bunch of things. Do some reading and get yourself a datta logger and go from there.

I don't care what anyone says, with the 16g at 20+psi, fuel will become a major factor, even with the walbro HP 255lph fuel pump. The stock lines from (and including) the fuel filter only flow 2L/min. I am at 100% duety cycle with the stock injectors and only 17psi.....you do the math.

http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm#WORKSHEET

[ January 26, 2002: Message edited by: Vince Amato ]

Ronnie, I know at low rpm you will be fine, but when you are racing, WOT, in 3rd, around 6000rpm, something dangerous will be happening inside your engine....You injectors will be totally maxed out, and you will be very lean.

You're welcome to ride the ragged edge, maybe even prove others wrong. Do you want to risk it?

At the boost you want to run ie >17psi, you really need larger injectors. Larger injectors require AFC or VPC.

Well...i get home on a Friday night, and BAM! this post blew up...

Anyways, to update you guys.

I will not be achieving 12's without upgraded injectors. Tonight, nice and dry air out there, Nice 0 degree weather, perfect turbo weather. I maxed out my injectors at 16PSI. Full cycle.

Scared the hell out of me. I thought I'd be bussing it for a few months. Well, maybe I'm exaggerating. But I defintily need more fuel. Not good.

Well, I will achieve my times, if i have to dig deeper into my empty wallet, than so be it.

Injectors, i need, anyone got any?

thanks guys.

thanks for the encouragment guys. I think that in the end, it WILL come down to driving skill. I think I'm up for it, the times will tell i guess.

Bali, I'd like to check out your car sometime.

thanks, ronnie

Ronnie just drop me an email and we can hook up.

I am in the process of putting a 2G MAS in, should be done this weekend and moddifing the stock side mount intercooler. (Probably won't get the intercooler in but built the jig anyways.)

Cheers,