High Running Temperatures

This quote from the VRSF thread got me back into thinking about the issues with my car:



My car runs hotter than the infernos of hell.

Not going to list all the mods (like fuel, electronics, mounts and stuff) but I'll list the pertinent ones and maybe someone can offer some insight.

-Stock 14b turbo currently running wastegate spring pressure (i.e. no boost controller)
-Stock 6-bolt Block w. BSD
-Stock head w. ARPs and Brian Crower 272 cams
-All new gaskets, new gates waterpump, new knock sensor, etc.
-Ported O2 Housing, Hot Side and Exhaust Manifold
-3" turbo-back exhaust (incl. downpipe)
-A/C Delete (i.e. no condenser)
-VRSF FMIC kit exactly as installed above

Got the car put together, was running original 20-year old rad ('92), only had one fan and no shroud. My fans are *always* on.
Was running hot as hell so I removed the stock 195F thermostat and put in a 165, it definitely helped but still ran hot and after a few short runs in boost would be in the 200s easily, even on cool nights. The few weeks I've actually had to drive the car have been spent almost entirely with heat on full blast, including the drive to & from the Shootout. Yes, it runs that hot (high 190's - 21x even during the drive to the S/O).

Current status - original rad started leaking while car was awaiting a tranny rebuild, so I got an aluminum rad with full shroud and 2 slim fans. Only 1 fan currently wired up as I installed the rad to drive her home and put her away for the winter. Will be wiring up the 2nd fan soon. Hopefully this will help a lot of my overheating problems (haven't had much opportunity to test it yet, as my drive home was done early November when it was nice and cool) but I'm not banking on it.

I want to road-race this car but I'm not even considering it right now given that she runs that hot cruising on the highway.

Any ideas/things to check/suggestions/etc.?

is your thermostat working correctly?

I would like to see this too. I was under the assumption that below 200 for temperature was good! I get to 210 max when cruising on hot days, so I am a little worried about putting on my VRSF.

Was also going to grab some water wetter for the summer, has anyone had any luck with this. Do I run it will water and coolant or just water?

You always want some coolant unless your running it for another application, coolant also lubricates.

Thermostat is working correctly and thermostat orientation has been verified correctt. Also, the system has been *thoroughly* bled.

The week or two I had her running before the Shootout I was just running distilled water in case of leaks/etc. (and water should keep it cooler). Since just prior to the SO, I have been running a coolant/water mix. I also have water wetter to use when I take her out of storage.

As for temps, cruising, I may see low 200's on the highway now, with everything I've done, but what's going to happen when I'm in boost ALL day at the track. I do a few 3rd gear pulls on a cold night and the temps just start shooting wayyyy up.

I'm using the stock 195 thermostat, and on average my coolant temps are between 196-203. I pulled up a log from last summer, and after a 2nd-3rd gear pull revving as high as 7,829 my coolant tepms were 193 during, and shortly after increased to 196, 200, then back down to 196.

I never have problems with moving, it's only if I'm in traffic on hot days that my tepms get to about 203, but never really hotter even if I'm stopped on the 401 for 20 minutes idling.

My stock fan is running like it would on a stock car, in other words I don't have it wired to be on all the time or on a switch.

Is your ECT reading correctly? If your overheating on the highway it is most probably not a fan issue since the wind rushing over your rad is wayyy more then any fan could pull.

Are you sure you don't have a head gasket problem? or a bad rad cap(t-stat housing cap)if it can't hold pressure it will lower your boiling point. check the seals on the cap aswell anything swollen or misshapen get a new cap(could also be sings of head gasket problem)

ECT seems to be reading correctly based on readings I've gotten.

Engine has a new OEM headgasket (installed by person I bought it from, but never ran until I got the engine) with new ARPs and the Brian Crower 272s. What kind of HG problem would I have and what should I be looking for?

As for the rad cap, I've put a new one on that has a good/fresh seal. No noticeable pressure drops anywhere in the system.

Water pump is new, as mentioned, all new gaskets for the whole engine, all new timing components, etc.


Edit: I'm curious to see how temps will be with the new rad. Is it possible the original rad was just damaged/clogged with crap to work efficiently? I mean, it started leaking just from sitting - can't imagine it was in great working order.

If you haven't had a chance to run it hot with the new rad, I wouldn't think too much about it just yet. It looks like you've gone over everything anyways. Stock for stock, it's the 2Gs that have the mystery cooling problems. Your old rad was probably plugged. Been there!

Probably the rad. Don't over diagnose until you test it out with the new rad.

If you still experiance overheat then worry about it. Was asuming you still had the issue after a new rad was installed.

Also if you have A/C and on 1 fan delete the A/C or at least check the condition of your condensor. Fins should be nice and straight and core should be good and clean.

All A/C components are completely removed from the car other than the 'snowflake' button inside the car.

I did drive the car with the new rad for 2 days during early November and it still ran pretty hot whenever I got into boost a little, even though it was relatively cool outside - it just cooled down faster. Mind you, what temperatures should I be aiming for?

Maybe I'm being unrealistic in never wanting to hit 200+ except under the most strenuous conditions. A pull or two putting me above that in cool November weather is not my idea of good cooling.

I didn't have any more time with the new rad than those 2 short days, but I still feel the issue's there based on those 2 days. Or at the very least, worth discussing in case it is there.

http://www.ca.dsm.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=336841#Post336841



HTH

How do you know for sure these temps are accurate? I once had an engine I could never figure out the overheating issue, but it was pushing coolant out the overflow.

Are you pushing any coolant?

I finally determined I had a cracked head or something, and well I swapped out the NT for a turbo'd 4g63.

Not pushing any coolant or have not able to detect if I have.

Thanks for the link Ryan; it's definitely a very good summary and I've read that page numerous times before - still haven't gotten any solid leads yet, though. I'm hoping the new rad makes a decent difference...after that, I'm lost. I will do ducting, but I shouldn't need to.

there was a fan that was mentioned when I was doing some research that pulls 3000 cfm (or whatever the measurement is) maybe look at one of those if you are really desperate and definitely a fan shroud will help.

I've got a full shroud with dual slim fans (one still needs to be wired up). The fans will do a lot more for me at idle/slow speeds. At highway speeds the fans won't have much effect.

are still running water or do you have a proper coolant mix now?

whats you mix?

Sometime you can smell exhaust vapours in your recovery tank and sometimes the is sludge if you have a bad head gasket.

How's your tune? You will need ductwork with your setup for sure.

When was the last time your water pump was changed and what kind of pump did you use?

Is your turbo/exhaust covered?

Try a 75/20/5 mix of water/coolant/water wetter respectively.

Gonna start my tune from scratch again this Spring/Summer but it was okay the few weeks I had the car running, that is until my wideband decided to quit.

The water pumps is *brand new*, bought form JNZ. It is a Gates if I recall correctly - Ghiz ordered it for me when he did his JNZ order last summer. The engine went in with ALL new gaskets, new water pump, new BSD, fresh ARPs, etc.

The turbo has the stock heat shields over it, but that's it. I'm only running the little 14b. She runs hot even at idle with never moving/hitting boost.

As for my mixture, it was similar to that - it's a little higher coolant now because of the winter (not taking chances of blowing frost plugs) but it'll probably be a 2:1 water:coolant mix come Spring, plus water wetter of course.



Stephen, by recovery tank I assume you mean overflow tank? I'll have to open it up and take a whiff, but I can't recall any noticeable 'off' smells.

Thanks for all the insight everyone. Hopefully I can get this figured out so I can drive around without heat on full blast on 20C+ days :S

You might want to consider installing a large 14" pusher fan that runs all the time. You could also install a metal scoop underneath the rad which will draw air to it (having done this I can tell you it helps). Installing a hood vent above your turbo will certainly help dissipate that nasty hot air. Switching to a tube and fin intercooler in place of the bar and plate would help to cool your rad better (stock EVO's for instance). Lastly ( if all else fails), find the biggest sidemount you can find (Supra for example) and say bye to overheating for good.

To bring this back from 'the dead'.

Car is out and have been dd'ing her (for the first time!) since Saturday.

Still having the incredibly high running temp issue. A little bit of boost (not even one pull worth) and she shoots up into the 200's...the only thing saving me right now is the cold temps cooling her down reasonably quickly and me cranking up the heat. If we had been having even mild summer weather I'd be screwed.

Thermostat is a 165F.
The cap is good.
The coolant overflow bottle and associated lines are well below thermostat housing level.
Mixture is probably in the 80/20 range (water/coolant) and also has a bottle of water wetter in it.
Coolant system is bled and flows well (with rad cap off you can see thermostat open and the coolant flowing).
One rad fan is wired for always on, the other one will be wired in to be always on by the end of this weekend as well. (An under-dash switch to be wired in at a later date).

Remember, this is all with a brand new aluminum rad (happened with the old one too, though), new water pump, etc.

I do have every intention of doing ductwork but I should not need to, not to mention that I believe ductwork is only going to hide the actual problem, which is bad given that I plan to roadrace the car and need her to run every bit as cool as possible. What I'm seeing is far outside of the norm, especially for a tiny little 14b. Look at Lucian's situation:



And then try to tell me that it's because I don't have ducting. I'm pretty sure he's running a bigger FMIC core than me!

I would look more at your fans than. What is there CFM rating and do you have them shrouded?

I have a full shroud and if I remember correctly, they are 1200CFM? Would have to check though.

When driving at speed, though, the fans have far less to do with cooling, if much at all. The airflow from driving makes a MUCH bigger difference.

What are you running for oil?

Opps meant to post this here

Borrow or buy a cheap thermal gun, or replace your temp sender with known good one to confirm that reported temperatures are accurate?

That is really wierd Salomon... I took my car out of storage about a week ago and I've been DD'ing it since as well. I've been datalogging it a lot lately (trying to tune it) so I have logs of WOT pulls, cruise, idle, etc and I've only seen it jump to 196 or so a couple of times. It hangs in the 180's on average, but has fluctuated between say 180-195 depending on the driving.

Here is the intercooler I'm using on the car:



Also regarding the burping... You're letting it burp out until there is no more bubbles right? I usually let mine burp for 20-30 minutes, until nothing comes out anymore.

Bad radiator or a leak somewhere?

I have the VRSF kit (haven't bothered putting the bumper support back in and am running short route piping) but my FMIC setup is definitely no more restrictive than your's. I did not let her burp nearly that long but will do so tonight after work in hopes of catching any last air pockets that may be in the system.

The thing is, if I'm just driving her around town with no boost at all she'll stay around/in the mid-high 160's (due to 165F thermostat and cold weather), but as soon as there is ANY boost, the temps SKYROCKET. (In the summer, though, she just runs hot as hell no matter what.) Perhaps this fact will help point to the cause?

Michael, no leaks to be seen/found and no traces of any leaks of any sort. If it's leaking, it's such a tiny amount that it would be measured in hours per drop As for the rad, it's brand new...have not seen any signs of a rad blockage with it so I doubt it's that. :S

i had the same FMIC and my car ran hot as hell too. It blocks most of the air flow to the rad. Build some ducting or try something like this....

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/224201-how-i-lowered-my-coolant-temps-6-degrees.html

Nathan: My thermostat is a 165F and in this weather my car stays in the 161-169F range unless I go into boost, so I'm assuming that the sensor is fairly accurate, not to mention it was a known good one. That being said, I do have a temp gun and will try and remember to test your suggestion out when I'm at home this weekend.

Tim, as I mentioned, I do have *every* intention of doing a fully ducted setup, but that's because I plan to road-race and it's also just good to have. That being said, I really shouldn't need ducting just to cruise around town or down the highway without nearly overheating, which is pretty much what's happening now. I did the whole drive to the Shootout and back last year with heat on full blast so she wouldn't die on me.

That's wierd that it's only climbing under boost..

Is your intake pipe heat wrapped and away from the engine?

maybe your water pumps going and its under load and not boost.

I put on a brand new water pump when I did all the timing components and engine gaskets, etc. while the engine was out of the car.

I haven't even put 4k on the car, most of which was to/from/at the Shootout last Fall and it's been giving me this problem right from the start (i.e. as soon as I fired her up the first time).

Bryan, my intake pipe is the stock piece of junk (got a nice one one the way) but my intake temps are very low (cold weather), so I know it's not that, not to mention I can probably count on one hand the number of DSMs I've seen with heat-wrapped intake pipes

LOL that's true.
Any chance your intercooler is heat soaking?
What oil are you running?

I highly doubt heat soak, especially considering even just one pull cranks the coolant temps up. One pull on a 14b is not going to cause the IC to heatsoak when the car was at maybe 170F before the pull, not to mention when the IC is as big as the VRSF and the temps are as cold as they are right now. The fact it still does this in these temperatures is what's killing me.

If I can barely boost in 5-10 degree weather without running crazy hot, how the hell am I going to track her on a 30C+++ hot, sunny summer day for extended periods of time?!?!?!

I'm currently running Royal Purple 10W-30.

I wonder if you have something like a hairline crack in the head or something, that only becomes evident when under boost. Causing the compression to escape into the cooling system. I'm just talking out of my ass here, but I don't see anything else that makes sense to me! Everything as you indicate is good and perfect the way it should be, yet you're still having problems.

200 degrees is optimal temp for our cars and they run the BEST at this temp. I am not sure why people are dead set on running cooler temps and 165 degree thermostats. Getting engine oil temps to 200 degrees is optimal, and results in the less wear and tear on internal components.

You say your temp shoots into the 200's, but you don't say exactly what temp its going up to, so I guess it sounds normal to me. What is the exact highest temp you are seeing. 200's is pretty vague to me.

On a warm (20's) summer day, one 3rd gear pull will put me in the 21x range if not higher. Even in these low temperatures, a few closely-timed pulls will shoot me from the mid 170s to between 205-219 or so, especially with heat soak. Cruising on the 401 at 125-130 in single digit temps with a 165 thermostat and she's running around 200, +/- a few.

I agree, a 165 thermostat is not ideal and it's not what I'd like to be running, but she runs hot enough with it as it is.

Like I said, my end-goal is to road-race this car yet overtaking a car on the highway puts me into danger territory. It's a little ridiculous and incredibly frustrating.

"Hey guys, let's go for a drive...but, we can only hit boost once every 10 minutes or she'll overheat" <-- Pretty much sums it up as far as warm weather driving goes.

219 degrees is ok (hot but not damaging), I used to cruise around at 226 degrees one summer when I had single slim 12" fan. I agree these temps are hot and you should get them lower. As long as you have no air pockets in the head, going even higher, like in the 230's, is okay on the engine (as long as coolant is there)

They are by no means damaging to any components. Get another rad fan on and wire them to be on full time, full blast. Do some good ducting and it should solve your problem.

If you find your temps rapidly climbing over 230 and not coming back down no matter what, then there is a problem.

An update to this.

Since it looks like I'll be redoing my timing anyways, I'm going to pull the head.

Something that I've been thinking of and has been mentioned by a few others during discussion as well is the possibility that I'm pushing exhaust into the coolant under boost, which would explain why the car stays at temp idefinitely while idling but heats up *instantly* after even a bit of boost (especially a pull). I've also been seeing coolant dripping out the overflow hose lately, which also lends credence to that idea.

To clarify: When I say 'instantly' I mean the coolant temps are at ~180, if that, ambient temps are < 6C, and after ONE pull to mid 4th the coolant temps are mid-high 220's.

Although the engine had a new OEM head gasket when I bought it (or so I was told), I have no idea if copper spray was used or not or if the surfaces were properly prepped. This will be a pain in the ass but peace of mind is priceless. Nothing else left that anyone has mentioned or can think of that would cause my issues.

I'll have to pick up some copper spray and some ARP lube, and possibly a new headgasket pending inspection.

I don't know if this is the case for you but I hope there is way to diagnose it without removing the head. I heard we lift our heads on stock bolts under high boost. How much boost are you running?

Up to about 22psi (14b) with brand new ARPs (brand new as of August when all timing components and head gasket were new).

And yes, there probably are better ways to check but I have to do timing anyways so I may as well do it now. I have a feeling it (the hg) was never copper-sprayed.

Update #2: Since I'm away from home (i.e. the car) 5 1/2-6 days/week and have been working ridiculous hours and will continue doing so, I just don't have the time to take off the head (nor the desire - but who does).

Therefore, I'm going to retorque the ARPs, redo the timing and call it a day.

If I absolutely need to do the head gasket after that, then I will, but I will get 'er going again, see how she does and do a good ol' leakdown test (and another compression test).

So...timing turns out to still be perfect (see this thread for misfire issues) - coil pack is now suspected. That being said, turbo/exhaust manifold/IC piping/alt/PS pump/etc. are all out of the car - two bolts broke off in the turbo yesterday.

My question is now, do I pull the head or just retorque the head studs, and if I retorque should I loosen & retorque one at a time or loosen all and retorque all? Car won't be running for at least 2 weeks, probably - I'm going to be doing even more porting on my O2 housing/hot side/exhaust manifold/etc. during the next few weeks and also going to be getting a bung welded in my TB Elbow so I can run SD




Edit: If I pull the head and the HG looks fine, can I resuse it? Tuition is due next week and I'd really rather not spend any more than I have to.
Also, if the head gets pulled, I will (probably) be taking it to get checked at an engine/machine shop just to verify everything is good and no cracks/etc.

Its very easy to figure out if your headgasket it gone, do a little research.

Copper spray is sh!t IMO and not needed, lol. I'd say you figure out the problem first before pulling off parts.

Perhaps you'd like to offer a little insight, because everything I've tried/tested/checked has come up negative and no one else seems to be able to think of anything other than head gasket and/or the head.

I have done my research and have been doing it for quite a while and the only thing I haven't done (that I can find suggested) is a leakdown test as I don't have a leakdown tester and don't have access to one and can't afford to buy one right now.

I'm open to doing any tests/checks that will help figure out my problem, but telling me 'to do a little research' when I've spent many, many hours searching and reading (without finding much new or particularly useful, at this point) isn't really helping the matter. Believe me, the last thing I want to do is pull parts for the sake of pulling parts but I'm at a loss right now.

Edit: I should add - when I drained the coolant overflow bottle (which became/becomes full and overflowing from driving), there was a thick layer of 'black stuff' at the bottom (that wasn't there when installed on the car - after installing a brand new rad).

Also...one day I had the car running with the rad cap off and coolant system full, if I revved the engine (even a little bit), coolant was shooting out through the thermostat. Never had that happen before.

Decided to do some research for you, and most of what I am finding is people with issues with their headgasket. What brand of head gasket did you get and were the surfaces decked before putting them on? Did you put the head on perfectly or did you have to shift it once you got it on there?

Well is there oil in the coolant ?
Is there coolant in the oil ?
Is there exhaust gases getting into the cooling system ?
Compression #'s consistent across the cylinders ?

If it was running hot because there is a sealing issue and exhaust gases are getting into the system and pushing all you coolant out thus causing it to over heat, then it would be pretty obvious.

If your car is doing this, then you already know the head gasket is gone. If everything above checks out fine, I just don't think its the head gasket.

I bought the engine from another member and they had put on a new OEM (Mitsu) Composite HG and new ARPs. The head and block were not decked, but it is not necessary to do so for a composite gasket. The engine was never run after these items were installed and as mentioned, I retorqued the ARPs to spec with ARP Assembly Lube once the engine was in my posession. Loosening and the subsequent torquing of the nuts/head studs were done in proper order according to the shop manual.



Reza,

I do not see oil in the coolant and I did not see coolant in the oil when I changed it a few weeks ago.

As for exhaust gas in the coolant, I cannot say for certain. I know they have tests for that - but unless it works after the fact (i.e. after the cars been off for a few weeks/coolant is just sitting) then I can't tell as my coolant is in a pail right now.

The compression #'s I got a few weeks ago on a warm engine and with throttle closed (i.e. not a proper compression test) were:
1 - 149
2 - 145
3 - 146
4 - 142

Back in Fall before the SO I got these values on a hot engine with throttle open:
1-150
2-151
3-152
4-150

So, the compression test #'s seem to check out.

The only reason I suspect head gasket/head is because I don't know what else it could be. The rest of the cooling system is brand new and functioning well, not to mention the car only runs hot as hell under boost, and it does so instantly, even in freezing temperatures. Heck, I'd say other than under boost the cooling system works pretty well - after a pull when the temps skyrocket, the cooling system does a pretty good job at pulling them back down as long as I stay out of boost and just cruise gently.

Any ideas as to what else it could possibly be if not the HG/Head?

I am not sure were you got the info of a head not needing to be resurfaced,but that is incorrect if you ever want a headgasket to last. The head could be warped and no amout of retorquing will make it straight.

I have seen some people try a smooth the surface with sandpaper even worse idea DON'T DO IT.

If you are getting sludge in your overflow you have compression leakinh into your cooling system.

As to where it from... You will have to disassemble the head and look at the gasket sometime you can see the firing ring broken. if you can see any damage to the gasket get the head checked it will cost you a few bucks but at least you won't have to replace it again.

Thanks Stephen, the insight is much appreciated.

I was not informed that the head was decked (it may very well have been, but I don't know), so I'm assuming it wasn't. I was under the impression that for a composite gasket (and not MLS) that you didn't need to resurface.

As for resurfacing procedure...I would only ever do it/get it done the right way. It may cost more but I like to do things once and do them right...sand paper is just asking for trouble.

Compression in the coolant = head pulled.

Time to throw those coveralls back on, I guess.

Years ago the old Chrysler guys used to just lift the head and throw in a new gasket and hope for the best.But that was on old 2.2 and 2.5l engines those head wheren't straight even after you machined them.

Run the pistons threw their sweeped area are while the head is off and look for anything abnormal. Could be a crack in block aswell

I am going to have to disagree with this. If you check your surfaces and both are nice and level, even if there is a tiny bit of gap (and I mean tiny) running the stock head gasket is the best way to go, as stated on ziggy's website, it is the most forgiving. I would also like to state that I just finished doing a head swap and nothing got decked, just put in a nice new OEM HG and I am good to go, I have had no issues.

Smoothing the surface with sandpaper might not be the best idea, but the surface should be prepped before putting on the new gasket and using sandpaper is a good way to do it, I used a flap wheel which is nice!

The service limit is .008 inch for head warpage U need to measure that not just put a level on it.

Soloman's head gasket was done before he bought the car as he stated. Obviously not done properly.

I would agree that a stock gasket is the most unforgiving. A MLS gasket needs much better surface prep.

As stated if you want it to last do it right.

Wait till you hit your car a few times with over 20psi boost.(even the stock bolts dont always hold up)

You should of prep you block with a 3M roloc pad. Not sand paper.

Also Soloman is having over heating issues. He should be checking everything not half ass a head gasket job.

I have fixed so many backyard done head gaskets i can't count them anymore.

To update:

Ended up pulling the head on Sunday. No hugely obvious signs of HG damage but oil smelled terrible and found out my turbo seals on the hotside are blown (explains why I was slowly eating oil but IC pipes were clean). Found some other stuff that needed taking care of (one of my lower injector seals was completely split, CAS was missing a nut, main water pipe bolt was loose causing pipe to leak a bit where it connects to water pump, etc.)

Cylinder walls and pistons look great (no carbon buildup on piston, cylinder walls smooth).

Head is getting ultrasonic tanked, decked and possibly having the valves reseated.

Do you guys think it is critical for me to get the head pressure tested as well?

Also, for the block, I just plan to scrape all the crap off with some plastic scrapers (razors only as absolutely necessary) and then a solid scrubbing/wipedown with acetone. Is this enough? I'm only going to be using an OEM composite gasket. What techniques/materials do you use to prep a block if it's not getting decked?

I'll be using a composite OEM head gasket.

Opinions?

I would use the 3m roloc bad like stephen had mentioned to prep your block. I was going to make a comment on the pressure testing but I will leave that to someone with more experience (my thoughts are if the valves are seated correctly than you shouldn't need the pressure test assuming the shop does good work)

I would tell the machineshop your issue and see what they suggest. I would recomemnd a pressure test or whichever form of crack detection they use. See if they can give you the specs before and after they deck the head.

You could use the 3m roloc bristle pads (they are the cats ass on aluminum) but you need a diegrinder and adaptor.

One of those scotchbright pads(not too course) and some air intake cleaner or acetone. I use air intake cleaner because it more readily avialible to me.

Cast is a bit harder to damage with a scrape as long as your gentle you should be fine.

I always lay my flat edge across the block and do some measurements. I have yet to have a cast block out of spec. Not say they don't warp.


Can you post or sent me a pic of the HG. something good.

Solomon;

2 years ago I pulled my head to have valve seals replaced. I did a quick scrape/block sand of my block, cleaned my piston tops (already cleanish from the meth), the head was cleaned by the machine shop but neither milled nor pressure tested. I did a quick block sand with some 800 grit, sprayed my OEM Composite with some copper spray, slammed her on and torqued my ARPs to 90ft/lbs.

I ran 2 years at 25+psi on this with the Small 16G. I never lost a drop of oil nor pushed a drop of coolant. Car never overheated nor did it burn any fluids.

FFT. FWIW.

Well...to bring everyone up to date.

Head is completely disassembled and getting ultrasonic tanked and decked tomorrow. New (i.e. OEM but 'refreshened' to new condition) valves are going in, getting reseated and new valve stem seals are getting thrown on.

I will be running an OEM composite gasket

I will be cleaning the block with a plastic scraper, some solvent, some green 3M scouring pads (nothing that will do any damage, especially not by hand) and perhaps a low grit (1000?) sanding. All the holes are and will remain plugged until the block is clean.

I will be torquing my ARPs to 90ft/lb, maybe 95 (undecided), in 3 steps (30/60/90) using ARP Assembly Lube, following shop manual tightening order.

I don't think I will be using copper spray, although I do have a can of it.

If anyone has anything to add/suggest/object to/etc....please feel free to let me know. The sooner the better as she's getting put back together this weekend.


On a sidenot...IAT Bung is welded on. SD, here I come!

Some guys swear by it, other guys say it's useless. However, I've never heard any definitive stories where it's caused any harm. If you already have a can, I say have at 'er.

If your using a brand new gasket, especially composite, then you don't need copper spray (but wont hurt to use it). Copper spray is more useful if your going to reuse a metal gasket.

Refreshed? As in cleaned up and reused?

For the price of valves, Id get a brand new set. Along with new guides and seals. Maybe some upgrades springs, and revised lifters

I wouldn't sand the block, lots of junk will fall off the paper, use a wire brush attachment for a drill, polishes to a beauty surface finish.

I believe ARP recommends a higher torque then that, I think its on the instruction paper that comes with the head studs.

As for temps, my new aluminum rad keeps it real cool! Barely ever need the fans, yet its only been about 10C here. So thats something to look into as well.

I can't afford what I've bought as it is, so new valves/guides/springs/lifters/etc. were never even a consideration. New seals, clean valves and then all the stock stuff (plus my BC272s). Valves are being (re)seated.

I'm still on the fence about copper spray but after looking at the gasket I think I may just use some, as the gasket is not that smooth/flat of a surface, even though I know when it's crushed it will fill in more.

http://arpinstructions.com/index.php Search 207-4701. It's only higher than that if you're using 30wt motor oil.

I'm not putting any power tools near my block surface. It's just not happening. I have every hole plugged well and aren't too worried about crap falling in.

I also have a nice new aluminum rad. The cooling system itself works great and effectively. The exhaust in the coolant is not so great.