DSMers! Let me introduce my pride, Eagle Talon 1996 TSi AWD. She came into my world early spring of 2006. Back then I was still doing school and had part time weekend job. TSi was my dream machine but I didn't have enough money to buy one. Finding TSi AWD back than was easier. I found mine on autotrader for sale in Whitby. It was over my budget but I decided to go anyway; just for test drive.
Original photo from autotrader
It was a private sale and girl owned it. It was priced for quick sale. She explained her boyfriend drove it because she couldn't drive manual. They broke up so now it's up for sale...blah blah. I only had short test drive (unplated car) with her dad in the passenger seat. Car was overheating, coolant was pouring down from the engine bay. After we got back she spoke more about her boyfriend...while i was trying to figure out a polite way out of the conversation and leave.
The car was all stock with 130k on the clock. It was idling perfect and everything worked fine. So i told things i liked and things I didn't (overheating). So i turn my back and started leaving and I heard.....will you take it for $$$$ (it was a nice 40% price drop)...so I turned back and said....Did you say $$$ . And that was it....TSi AWD was mine.
Pics of my DSM parked at her house.
Present time... Goal for next year! Get her ready for track, DSM cruises, DSM meets. This year so far is good one for me. I met more DSMers than I ever did before. For me it's always a good thing. New experiences and lots of new ideas.
Behind any successful project always comes organized workplace and right tools. Mine was nowhere near ready for that so I decided to work on it first.
This is what my workplace looked like this summer.
Started by clearing the area.
30 year old drywall teardown
New dedicated electrical line was added so I could run electrical heater and power tools together . Also I ran network line in case wireless will let me down one day.
I envy your workshop... Or garage for that matter.
Thanks Johnny, At first, i thought it would be impossible to do. I worked on it little by little day after day. Now that it's cold outside I can enjoy my own workplace
One of the things to do on my list is clutch. I am still running same clutch that girl had in this car before me. It was doing well until I raised boost to 20psi. ACT PP 2100 with 6 puck sprung mated to ACT flywheel is my weapon of choice.
Here are some pics I took during my tranny removal. (my first tranny job)
While I had things removed I sprayed it with degreaser, gave it good power wash, and sprayed fresh caliper paint on top. Nothing will be done to the tranny this season. Except making it look fresh outside.
I bought 6 puck ACT Sprung from Reza over year ago and flywheel came back with me from California (I lived there for a year). I've been collecting parts over long period of time Before I can start bolting things back I still need pressure plate. This last missing piece will have to come from Ziggy.
Thanks Kyle, I hope this tranny will propel me into 12s. Maybe next build season I can do something to it. I don't want to jump to far in my uprgade path. Enjoying one step at the time
Likely by now the rear diff bushings aren't in the best of shape, I'd install a urethane bushing kit while you're at it, certainly won't hurt to do it.
I'd install a urethane bushing kit while you're at it
I did this recently and took a few photos. I'll be throwing some sort of a writeup in the RTM forum at some point. But as Jason says, it's a big enough pain in the butt to drop the subframe, you kinda want to do everything you can while it's down. On that note, urethane rear subframe bushings kits are also in the works at RTM. They might be a month or so off.
+1 On the garage job. Can't to see your TSi AWD come next spring at the meets
Maybe day my talon will be like yours
You will see it but sadly probably will not see Spyder anymore. The most important thing is that you have turbo DSM. We'll keep our eyes open on pieces you need to get AWD gears turning again
Originally Posted by Andrew Trapp
Yeah, no kidding, nothing like a brand new shop to work in. Good call with the hardline, I hope you did run CAT6.
Did you figure out the overheating?
It's cat 5e ...should be good enough for google and DSM board Overheating is an issue for me. This season I need to take it seriously because I want my DSM to withstand hot summers with AC in traffic. The following issues identified so far: -Small coolant leak from banjo bolt on the block. The one that drains coolant from turbo. It only leaks at high coolant pressure. This maybe the source of air getting into my cooling system. -Long ago I bough used RAD from the board member. Ever since (before my front mount) I started having heat issues. The brand of this rad is unknown, probably just a knock off. If i dont run out of budget for this season I may replace it for known quality one. On top of that I will keep AC fan as slim but use stocker for main fan. Wired both together of course. Radiator insulation foil and bumper ducting will be done also.
Originally Posted by Jason Drew
Likely by now the rear diff bushings aren't in the best of shape, I'd install a urethane bushing kit while you're at it, certainly won't hurt to do it.
Originally Posted by Paul Bratina
I did this recently and took a few photos. I'll be throwing some sort of a writeup in the RTM forum at some point. But as Jason says, it's a big enough pain in the butt to drop the subframe, you kinda want to do everything you can while it's down. On that note, urethane rear subframe bushings kits are also in the works at RTM. They might be a month or so off.
If subbrame need to be dropped i would need ot wait until next season. So much stuff to do this season already. Looking forward to that writeup Paul.
Aww I loved your spyder have you decided what you are going to do with it?
Yeah, I try and stay positive but maintaining the Talon can be a real headache sometime since I am still in school and working part time plus I have no garage
On a positive note I'll be picking up a drive shaft this weekend so I am one step closer. I was sooo close to getting a pair of rear axles for an awesome price but the deal fell threw
Good luck with over heating issue I am really looking forward to seeing your Talon since I have yet to meet some one with 2ga
Alex, I don't think your going to notice a huge difference between a name brand rad and the one you have, other than in your wallet . If you are going to upgrade I would stick with slim fans (maybe go brand name there) and get a three row (yours is two) but you will see from Mike's picture the thing is big.
have you decided what you are going to do with it?
Not sure. Part out or possibly another home.
Originally Posted by Bryan Lawrence
Alex, I don't think your going to notice a huge difference between a name brand rad and the one you have, other than in your wallet . If you are going to upgrade I would stick with slim fans (maybe go brand name there) and get a three row (yours is two) but you will see from Mike's picture the thing is big.
It looks like mine has thin core. The rad that came with my Spyder appears to be thicker (bigger core) and does not suffer overheating as much my Talon did. Both use identical fans.
I have bad news boys. I installed new flywheel...and I can literally pull my flywheel in and out and hear click (yes bolts are tight). The move is visible (about 1-2 mm) I think my 230k 7 bolt walked.
Weird, it ran fine and didn't have shifting/clutch issues. I guess I can't do 12s passes with this block
Part out the spyder and keep the engine? That's terrible news none the less I feel for you brother but like Jason said maybe you should run it till the very end. I'm sure that's how any 4g would wanna go out....
Sure you can, throw on a 1g cas, crank the boost and run her till she blows
haha very brave I'll keep that option open for now.
I wonder if my phantom knock was directly related to crankwalk. It was pretty bad between 2000-3000rpms
On the good side I have running revised 1999 7 bolt in my Spyder with 98000 miles on it. If compression test is good I will pull it out for crankwalk test. If all is good I will swap in my talon. I hope all wiring connector/sensors compatibility wont be a big issue for me. Visually I can see CAS sensor is different but I know there an option to enable it in ECMLink.
Originally Posted by Pedro Suarez
Part out the spyder and keep the engine?
Originally Posted by Bryan Lawrence
Yeah I have to agree with Pedro, you already have a spare block that is ready to go in.
Thanks Pedro/Bryan, It seems like the way to go right now. Any of you have compression test tool?
I have bad news boys. I installed new flywheel...and I can literally pull my flywheel in and out and hear click (yes bolts are tight). The move is visible (about 1-2 mm) I think my 230k 7 bolt walked.
I think I over diagnosed crankwalk. Is it normal for flywheel to travel in and out slightly? Terry Sikora was visiting my place and he said mine travels just as much as his. I expected anything more than zero movement is crankwalk but it appears some movement is normal.
My other revised 7 bolt will be on engine stand shortly so I will have a chance to compare. Still hoping to use Jason's advice by running my old 7 bolt as is for another season
Toys for the big boys: My JDM Galant knuckles and ABS sensors finally arrived. These knuckles is what makes front Evo8/9 Brembo brakes possible on 2G without the use of adapters. I got them from the guy on DSM tunners (mitsumissle) shipped from overseas for a fair price.
There is only one question remains...are they Chinese Knock-Offs or original Mitsu parts? Here are some detailed pics:
Boys came over last night to help me pull my first motor. Everything went well....Bryan got wild (eating so much pizza calories) and started dancing inside engine bay.... sorry I didn't photograph that.
Terry Sikora on the left and Bryan Lawrence on the right. Thanks boys
Once she is all in pieces I will resume my work on the Talon. I decided to keep my 96 motor for another year and slowly rebuild 99 for 2014.
More work to take the tranny and engine out separately in a 2G. Should've just taken it out in one go!
Alex was really wanted to know if the engine had walked so he jumped ahead to gain access to the flywheel to give it the crankwalk check. otherwise it would of come out in one foul swoop.
good times, after a long weekend for me I was in no mood to do any Harlem shake but I'm sure one will happen eventually.
Hopefully you plan on holding onto the roof brackets. When mine broke, they were a real pain to find! I'm sure you can find any spyder owner who would want a spare.
Alex, how did the guy get that on the flatbed? Just hook it up and drag it? Did it scrap up the driveway? We were thinking of doing something similar with Ziggy's shell.
Alex, how did the guy get that on the flatbed? Just hook it up and drag it? Did it scrap up the driveway? We were thinking of doing something similar with Ziggy's shell.
I had shell sitting on floor jacks inside my garage. I dropped it on wood studs evenly spread out under the body. Trucker hooked rear end and pulled it on to the flat bed. Shell basically slided on those studs without ever making contact with my garage floor. I had one company offering 50$ by they didn't show up as planned so I called someone else they came quick and it took it out my garage. I didn't get any money for it but at least I have space to start working on my talon
I had shell sitting on floor jacks inside my garage. I dropped it on wood studs evenly spread out under the body. Trucker hooked rear end and pulled it on to the flat bed. Shell basically slided on those studs without ever making contact with my garage floor
Damn had I known I would have joined in on the weekend festivities too... PS. Got a look at your block today at Rainbow Terry. We should have swapped lol
It's been awhile since I posted my progress...BUT I've been working on it quietly little every day. FINALLY I completed my drive shaft rebuild project which took me a while. My goal was to restore to new as much as possible. First time experimenting with POR15 paint. So let the pics do the talking enjoy
I started with wheel brush but got tired after 30 mins and gave up. Sandblasting was the way to go. Thanks Terry Sikora for your SB.
Preparation for POR15. Sandblasted, marine clean, prep and ready
POR15. Applied with the paint brush. Self leveling of this product is truly amazing. I never had such smooth results using brush only.
Looks good, how long did it take? I'd be down doing this to my 2g before the summer if I have the room for it.
It took me about a month. Cleaning and painting were the most time consuming steps. Watch the youtube link. They have list of all OEM parts you need for this job.
And pulling a set windshield after so many years is near impossible. With out cracking it at least.
Just fo future reference.. pulling abset windshield is actually easier then it looks. I thought the same thing untill Corts brother came over and pulled the windsheild out of one of my part out cars.. A 90 with original windsheild. He had a conversation with me and didnt even pay much attention to what he was doing. Tooknlike 20 minutes..Says if you what your doing its easy. I watched him do it and realized I was always doing it wrong.
And pulling a set windshield after so many years is near impossible. With out cracking it at least.
Just fo future reference.. pulling abset windshield is actually easier then it looks. I thought the same thing untill Corts brother came over and pulled the windsheild out of one of my part out cars.. A 90 with original windsheild. He had a conversation with me and didnt even pay much attention to what he was doing. Tooknlike 20 minutes..Says if you what your doing its easy. I watched him do it and realized I was always doing it wrong.
He took off all the trim.. then used welding wire and an axacto knife with lots of blades. I said you bought it whether you broke it or not. He said no prob.. and continued to talk about cars with me till he was done. Mind you this is the same guy who redid his evo roof in carbon fiber.
- Re-assemble turbo + install it. - Re-install and burp cooling system. - Install HKS cams + cam gears. - New valve cover + catch can set up. - New tires to mount on my new 17" enkei's. - Tune my SD setup. - Install N/T intake mani. - Install my J/R alt. relo kit and new Saturn alt. - Install those coilovers
Last but not least, customize and install the RSX seats.
- Re-assemble turbo + install it. - Re-install and burp cooling system. - Install HKS cams + cam gears. - New valve cover + catch can set up. - New tires to mount on my new 17" enkei's. - Tune my SD setup. - Install N/T intake mani. - Install my J/R alt. relo kit and new Saturn alt. - Install those coilovers
Last but not least, customize and install the RSX seats.
I don't want to hi-jack your thread but you asked
I had to cut my to do list just to get my Talon on the road sooner.
- Re-assemble turbo + install it. - Re-install and burp cooling system. - Install HKS cams + cam gears. - New valve cover + catch can set up. - New tires to mount on my new 17" enkei's. - Tune my SD setup. - Install N/T intake mani. - Install my J/R alt. relo kit and new Saturn alt. - Install those coilovers
Last but not least, customize and install the RSX seats.
I don't want to hi-jack your thread but you asked
Mike, get you ass in gear, all of those items are 1 day things except for the seats, turbo and sd tune. You should definitely be able to get that all done soon. Plus you can definitely combine some of those things and make it happen.
Forgot to add my evo 8 steering wheel installation.
It looks like I'll be cutting my list as well. BUT, I desperately want to start the RSX seats. They're so damn comfy, will probably be one of my fav mods.
- Re-assemble turbo + install it. - Re-install and burp cooling system. - Install HKS cams + cam gears. - New valve cover + catch can set up. - New tires to mount on my new 17" enkei's. - Tune my SD setup. - Install N/T intake mani. - Install my J/R alt. relo kit and new Saturn alt. - Install those coilovers
Last but not least, customize and install the RSX seats.
I don't want to hi-jack your thread but you asked
So you mean everything that you had done last time I was up there? lol (minus the seats, those are going to be sick.)
I decided to take overheating seriously this year. I replaced passenger slim fan with OEM fan and trimmed stock ducting to make it fit FMIC which was also sealed with aluminum foil tape. It is sealed on all four side so once air gets it the only way out is through AC condenser and then rad. I hope this setup will lower my temps. One last thing left to solve in this puzzle is location of coolant overflow tank.
the overflow solution is easy. go to megacity auto wreckers and grab an overflow from a 2000 Hyundai like I did, it has a super long neck with decent sized bottom end, you can mount the overflow down low on the frame and its neck will stick out right between the frame and your intercooler pipe. its almost like it was made to be. and it cost me a total of $5
the overflow solution is easy. go to megacity auto wreckers and grab an overflow from a 2000 Hyundai like I did, it has a super long neck with decent sized bottom end, you can mount the overflow down low on the frame and its neck will stick out right between the frame and your intercooler pipe. its almost like it was made to be. and it cost me a total of $5
Alex, I'll be at a wrecking yard shortly as I seem to go a couple times a month. I'll try and pick one up for ya as I'm currently getting tired of my gatorade bottle setup. lol
Alex, I'll be at a wrecking yard shortly as I seem to go a couple times a month. I'll try and pick one up for ya as I'm currently getting tired of my gatorade bottle setup. lol
She is all bright and ready. Just need to dial in and get alignment done. She is holding temperature well as long as my fans run continuously. Pedal feel with 2100 is stock but 6 puck grabs hard and usually chatters when starting from 1st gear. Still need time to get used to it...so far I love it. I put 350kms already.....clutch does not slip anymore
^^^ Not thats there's anything wrong with Level's alignment that I had done but to me it seemed like they really didn't want to do anything more then just adjust toe (& have heard others say the same).
I had them ad washers to the one rear side that could use another but I think that was pushing it. Didn't seem like they had any interest in dialing in the camber in the front with my adjustable bushings.
I found a shop I like better that took the time to dial in the front exactly how I wanted it. It actually took them like 4hrs since you needed a special slim wrench for easy adjustment that they didn't happen to have. Think they charged me in the low $200's, which I didn't think was bad, based on the actual amount of time they spent.
They had a nice machine as well, but I can't recall their name off the top of my head
You do have a good point.... They didn't have the tool to adjust my upper front camber, but mine was pretty close to where I wanted it. Same with the rears.
Place I was talking about is called Speedstar. They have moved since I was there. Don't think they have much interest in DSM's but ask them some question on S2000's & tracking them & they'll talk your ear off
pics look great! I still think you should lose the thumbnail wing and go wingless but thats just my opinion.
well done
Thanks Terry, not sure if I like the idea of deleting my rear wiper. I am fan of having all original(except performance parts) things in full working condition including wipers, cold AC, automatic fans, cruise control, fog lights, and ABS
Alex post a pic of the engine bay with the new rad.
So last Friday I went to LEVEL AUTO to get alignment done. I drove consistently 100 km/h on 401 and as soon as I got off to Kennedy and stopped at the red light....my temps went up 3 quarters high....
My fans were set to always ON so I desperately cranked up the cabin heat with hopes just to make it to LEVEL AUTO.
Long story short....that same day after alignment was done I was at Terry's place and he pointed out that my upper rad hose was not staying pressurized like it should. We were debating between my rad or faulty head gasket. I didn't have any visible coolant leaks (except for smell) but my cooling system would always end-up with lots of air in it, bubbling overflow, and not much coolant was returned after cool down.
That same Friday at aprx 7PM I called Ziggy and asked if I could pickup Mishimoto 3 core rad from his place around 9pm that same day. Big thanks to Ziggy for being available for me that late on Friday night.
So here are the pics:
This is my old aluminum rad
Its a happy ending after all....I don't have overheating issues anymore and cooling system behaves like it should I have not tried running AC yet but I look forward to it with confidence. My fans no longer need to stay ON anymore....and my car runs cool under all conditions. Thanks again to Ziggy for this 3 core Mishimoto rad!!!
Also rocking the 3 core, but fml it's a tight squeeze with my turbo, waste gate and dump tube. Trust me, there's no more space to work with. Also partly because I opted for the Mishi shroud kit. But on cool nights, I'll see temps in and around the 175-180 mark..and when it's warmer, 200'ish. Not running fans on all the time. But with them on, will hover around the 180 mark.
Also rocking the 3 core, but fml it's a tight squeeze with my turbo, waste gate and dump tube. Trust me, there's no more space to work with. Also partly because I opted for the Mishi shroud kit. But on cool nights, I'll see temps in and around the 175-180 mark..and when it's warmer, 200'ish. Not running fans on all the time. But with them on, will hover around the 180 mark.
If you havent already. I would deff check or replace the rad cap. Remember it is what controls the boiling point of your coolant. 1 psi of pressure 7 degress.
If you havent already. I would deff check or replace the rad cap. Remember it is what controls the boiling point of your coolant. 1 psi of pressure 7 degress.
Thanks for pointing that out Stephen. Mine is brand new OEM
Things are going well with my DSM. It's been a solid daily driver for me with working AC and cruise control. I took her camping last long weekend and she did well driving to French River (350km north near Sudbury). My only concern was the annoying humming noise from 3' exhaust doing 120 at 3500RPM. Slightly taller 5th gear plus a nice resonator would make me 100% happy
I kept few nice things from 99 Spyder part out days so recently I felt it was the right time to put them in.
- Black interior swap including front leather seats plus relocating my two gauges (privacy reasons). Rear black leather seats are still missing as they are not Spyder interchangeable. * Special thanks to Johnny for finding those rare black rear panels at the junk yard for me
Sat in her yesterday and definitely looks super nice with the black interior!! I like your signature! A batch of honour is definitely better than a badge of honour Plus you been spending too much time in US, you're forgetting your "U"s, haha
Sat in her yesterday and definitely looks super nice with the black interior!! I like your signature! A batch of honour is definitely better than a badge of honour Plus you been spending too much time in US, you're forgetting your "U"s, haha
Thanks Bryan! Haha I trust my US spell checker too much lol. Fixed!
Yep, sat in her a few days ago, it brought back memories of my spyder leather seats. The way the black interior flows with the two tone Black/Red paint job is super clean and adds a modern look/color to a much needed update.
Today would of been a perfect day to do a Brampton Crew Cruze.....I'm almost ready, its so close I can taste it..and it tastes sweet!
I should also mention that I installed Terry's coolant overflow tank (from hyundai). Now i have a proper coolant overflow setup. I made custom brasket and sits solid now. Big thanks to Terry for research and pulling one out for me
Looks excellent, Alex! I'm impressed with how clean you've made her!
If you're going to take Johnny's advice, I have a tint guy who will do the car for $200 even. Catch is, he's in the Quinte area
Thanks Eric, yours look also very clean especially your engine bay. Tint is defiantly a thing I want to do. Thinking about 3 on the back and 2 on the sides.
Somewhat a bad day for me. My DSM died on 401 east near Kipling. I lost power while driving. Nothing happens when key is on. Hazard lights work but no stereo, no power windows, no lights on the cluster gauge. I have feeling its my ECU. Waiting for tow truck
When my ECU went bad, my speedometer / rpm gauge went NUTS. The needles bounced around all over the place, I heard a loud squeal from my speakers as the radio shut off, and the car bogged so bad right before it died.
I had a similar issue, the main fuse was blowing, I traced it to the bundle of wires that came from the engine bay fuse box to the rad area, could be a dead short or maybe a lose battery terminal?
I have to swing by tomorrow anyway to drop some stuff off...I'd be more then happy to help figure out whats up.
If I lived closer.. Id be there with a flat bed! Sorry. Sounds like your ignition switch.
And Jay guide me even closer....it was a 30 amp fuse for ignition switch. After I replaced it it blew again 10 seconds later after ignition key was on with a bit of a smoke coming out of the engine bay. After tracing it further I found myself to be responsible for the issue. It was my stainless fuel line rubbing against the wire on the IM. It was always a ticking bump and finally it blew. I should have used 90-degree hose end coming out of my FR instead of straight end. It was long enough to make contact with the black wire and slowly eating insulation away and causing a short. This could end-up in engine fire. Glad fuse did it's job.
It was a 180$ dollars tow for me. Brayden from J.A towing babied my DSM while trying to pull her on/off the flat bed. He was impressed about the work done underneath while looking for place to hook her up. He knows DSMs and Club DSM Canada. There should be members that he knows from 5-7 years back. for great tow truck driver.
This is her first time being towed and if not me messing with her she could made it further without it. DSM reliability is still high in my book. She is all bright and alive....thanks for your support guys
Some sort of condenser? I looked into it a while back and never found a solid answer. Good eye Alex. I thing a 45* hose end would work perfectly there. That, or lift and secure that wire to the lines above it. Engine bay fires are anything but shitty pants scary.... And true. Do yourself a favor and get CAA. Even if you don't need it, you do. Why? Because you drive a DSM and they can be unpredictable. Or you're out treking around in your friends beater and it breaks down. They don't have CAA but as long as you're with the car, it doesn't matter. Tow his car and charge him $100. Gravy on both sides of the equation!
Some sort of condenser? I looked into it a while back and never found a solid answer. Good eye Alex. I thing a 45* hose end would work perfectly there. That, or lift and secure that wire to the lines above it. Engine bay fires are anything but shitty pants scary.... And true. Do yourself a favor and get CAA. Even if you don't need it, you do. Why? Because you drive a DSM and they can be unpredictable. Or you're out treking around in your friends beater and it breaks down. They don't have CAA but as long as you're with the car, it doesn't matter. Tow his car and charge him $100. Gravy on both sides of the equation!
Thanks Johnny, CAA is defiantly a good idea. The company I work for did IVR (interactive voice response) for CAA north east Ontario. I did all the work making artificual agent taking road side assistance calls from caa members. Maybe I should ask them for membership discount
If you call CAA Saskatchewan, north east Ontario, Alberta, and place your CAA call through AI agent than you know the engineer who made it work
CAA for the win, I used mine for the first time when I blew my tranny, but I used it twice for other people and charged them like $50, more or less paying for it It's also great for getting the CAA/AAA discounted hotel rates, I saved $40 on my SO reservation!
That little condenser, if that is the proper term it, is supposed to cancel out radio interference.
DSMers, As some of you may know I sold my home in Brampton and half of my stuff. The other half is in storage and tiny bit is in trunk of my red Talon. I am moving back to California (LA) with my family. My last day in Brampton is Saturday October 12th. On Sunday Oct 13th aprx 7 AM I will drive my Talon from Brampton to Los Angeles. It should take 4-5 days to get there and according to GPS its 4230 km away. I will be driving alone, my family will fly later.
I have done this trip before in my white Spyder but this time my old Talon will take me there. 241000 on original motor and drivetrain that saw 22-25 psi of boost. Running 18psi on recently downgraded stock exhaust. Thanks to Deep Man for saving it for me. Pics from last trip.
This week I need to decide on limited list of spare parts I should take with me. Already spoke with Terry S, Johnny, Nick G and received some good advice. If anyone have something to add please post here. I will be updating you guys daily about my trip with some nice DSM pics. Good luck to my DSM
Exactly what Jason said! Throw it up on the Tuners FB page and people will be all over it in no time. But what does all of this even matter because your car will make it! No problem Spare fluids is the only other thing I'd recommend. Can't remember whether or not we talking about that.
Fluids, a good, complete ratchet set, some wrenches and hand tools and that should be all you need. I like to keep a spare alternator (and power steering, if applicable) belt on hand as well. For the minimal cost, the grief and hassle it has saved me in the past is priceless.
Don't forget about us Northerners once you're enjoying the Cali sun!
Good luck Alex, looks like a fun scenic drive! I've always found DSM's to be pretty reliable on long drives, as long as you cruise them Hope you still got the cruise control hooked up in your car
I agree with everyone else. DSM's are good for long drives. My car was off the road for 3 years, and torn apart. The first trip outside a 50km radius of my small city was to the shootout and back. You will do fine!
That's definitely one hell of a drive! Hope you enjoy the trip just as much as the destination
Originally Posted by Johnny Larmond
Cheers dude, you're going to be missed.
Originally Posted by Stephen Richardson
Good luck Alex!!!!
Originally Posted by Salomon Ponte
Good luck and have a safe trip!
Originally Posted by Reza Mirza
Good luck Alex
Originally Posted by Dave Lachance
Good luck and have a safe trip
Originally Posted by Mike Kuttschrutter
You will do fine!
Originally Posted by Mike Eng
Have a safe trip Alex.
Thank you all!!!
Originally Posted by Reza Mirza
I've always found DSM's to be pretty reliable on long drives, as long as you cruise them Hope you still got the cruise control hooked up in your car
Yep cruise is in full working order and will be used heavily throughout the drive.
Originally Posted by Salomon Ponte
Fluids, a good, complete ratchet set, some wrenches and hand tools and that should be all you need. I like to keep a spare alternator (and power steering, if applicable) belt on hand as well. For the minimal cost, the grief and hassle it has saved me in the past is priceless.
Check! All fluids are good with an exception of power steering. I lost some PS fluid after doing my PS cooler delete yesterday. I top it off with regular PS fluid instead of Transmission fluid like it said in the manual hopefully PS pump and PS system will survive this mix.
I did lots of packing over the last few days but I ran out of time to start my drive Sunday at 7AM so it is now rescheduled to Monday 7AM. As shown on pics, my spare list of parts also include stock ECU with injectors in case my 95 eprom caps decide to leak on the way. Also I hope you enjoy looking at my boxes.
Special thanks for Terry Sikora for helping me move heavy stuff and storing some of it in his magical attic.
Wrapped spare parts and stored inside my trunk with spare tire.
my 3 inch exhaust is on the right Currently I have stock installed. My spare 99 7bolt motor is in those two yellow bins on the back. All boxes are going into storage facility.
Is the final drive ratio higher on a Evo 3? Compared to a 2g.
Evo 3 does 4000 at 120kmh according to Chris. However, somehow the 5th gear does magic on DSMs by lowering rpms to 3000. Jeremy G had a good explanation about final drive ratios during our last meet so hopefully he will chime in here
Alex! Good luck and all the best. Sorry I wasn't able to make it over for the doors. Long story short, had to deal with a few 'road blocks' during those few weeks. I doubt you still have them, but in the odd chance you do and come back for a visit, just message me
Will miss seeing your DSM around the block. Your spyder's wheels still look kick ass on my car
I'm gonna call the boarder and say your smuggling cocain up your bum..
haha jk.. Safe trip
Too late I got safely on the other side and even got vehicle importation docs.
The feeling of driving this thing is outstanding. I don't think I would attempted this trip if I was not driving my DSM.
I did 900k today boys....but there is problem which showed itself at around 500k....my head gasket slowly leaks pressure into cooling system I was at the dead stop looking for trailer to get her towed but burping the system bought me another 400k before air mixed up with coolant so bad that needle started to creep up again probably head is warped too so defiantly she needs a fresh rebuild
I changed my course south to Arizona to avoid driving through mountains. I will continue my trip tomorrow and will burp her everytime I stop for gas. Hopefully she will make it
Alex go to GM dealership and get the pellets they add to seal leaks in the cooling system, crush them up fine and dump them in the filler neck put on rad cap and drive, I have used them on a road trip to seal a blown head gasket and got another 3000k no problem, you have nothing to loose.
You should grab yourself a lower pressure rad cap. It is not by any means a proper fix, but it kept alot of Caravans and Shadows running till they got to where they were going.... it's hillbilly but it worked.
Subaru dealerships also have a "coolant system conditioner" which is a liquid stop leak to fix the leaky EJ25 head gaskets, a little better option if you don't want to risk clogging the heater core, not that you'll really need it in LA.
Anything else I can do to battle this issue? Re-torquing head studs? I don't blow any smoke and compression is good. Looks like leak is only one way so those "stop leak" chemicals won't do me any good
The Gm pellets wont hurt your rad or heater core, they work better than anything I have seen. unless your head bolts are used a couple of times and over torqued doubt if they are stretched, probably just a seeping head gasket.
I wouldn't touch the head studs.... For the same reason that Bryan mentioned, and because I wouldn't f with something that is as critical as head studs on your journey.
But you know what the issue was? You brought all those spare parts and your car said "he doesn't believe in me?! Alright.... Fix this cracker! ;)". Lol.
Seriously, I hope you get it figured out. Not a comforting situation to be in. At least you're not mixing oil/coolant or leaking into any cylinders. So there's that!
Rob might be on to something here. I don't think you've mentioned any symptoms yet that a faulty rad cap couldn't cause. If it IS the headgasket, you'll want to replace your rad cap afterwards anyway, so you might as well pick one up. The fact that it comes out the overflow is a bit unsettling though.
I hope you get it sorted out. If you're unsure about the pellets, there's a product called Irontite that a lot of guys swear by (and a lot of guys have used to seal headgasket leaks).
Leave your rad cap on at only the first "click" (the first detent). It will not build any pressure but it will still keep the coolant in the system. That is unless the head gasket leak is bad enough that the coolant all gets pushed into the overflow tank and it overfills and dumps on the road. I suspect though if that was going to happen, it would be happening already.
I'm not sure if I read past this or not but are you overheating while cruising or at idle?
Ryan L. had a good write up about our cooling system in the VFAQ. I'll try to find it, it's worth the read. He covers absolutely everything in our system.
A weak rad cap will also cause the coolant to boil at a lower temperature. It's a very cheap/easy fix, just stop at any Advance Auto on your route Alex, they'll have them for sure.
If you havent already. I would deff check or replace the rad cap. Remember it is what controls the boiling point of your coolant. 1 psi of pressure 7 degress.
Thanks for pointing that out Stephen. Mine is brand new OEM
[quote][/quote]
It could very well be a rad cap. But a few pages back he had a new OEM one.
Day 2. As I began driving this morning she drove about 95k before I lost coolant and started to overheat. I barely made into small town called Anderson with coolant bobling out of reseviour. At Autozone I desperately picked up their best headgasket stop leak product that uses some nano fibroids. I dumped that stuff in and turn heat on high and waited 15 mins as directed on the bottle. That crap pretty much put my DSM at dead stop. She started to overheat at idle while she was full of coolant. Driving it only made worth, needle was creeping fast to a red line.
3 out 4 shops refused to help me flush the clogged cooling system. Second shop took the car in, 3 mechanics stood in front of my engine bay and 5 mins later they drove her back to parking lot and hang me my key back saying sorry your engine looks modified, we don't want to mess with it.
Shutting engine every 100 meters to cool off I continued looking for a place that finally agreed to help me.
After about 5 hours of none stop flushing heater core, rad, and the engine we finally got all the crap out of there. Headgasket leak tested negative so at that point I decided ...why don't I just replace my "new" radiator cap.
After I left the shop I did 5 hours of night driving without single drop of coolant. Upper rad hose feels solid and very little activity inside my overflow bottle....damn rad cap haha. Tomorrow is another day, we'll see how she will do.
If you havent already. I would deff check or replace the rad cap. Remember it is what controls the boiling point of your coolant. 1 psi of pressure 7 degress.
Try and keep up Jason. A weaker one would help with a blown head gasket. It would help with a overheating due to a bad rad cap
You should grab yourself a lower pressure rad cap. It is not by any means a proper fix, but it kept alot of Caravans and Shadows running till they got to where they were going.... it's hillbilly but it worked.
Excellent man. Glad to hear! I had some coolant problems the other day as well. My return turbo coolant line cracked and exploded. Deleted the turbo cooling now seeing as I won't be using it in a couple months anyway
Rad cap should be replaced every few years. I can't even recall how many DSM's I have worked on and while the motor is cool, I pop off the rad cap and point out the cracked seal to the owner. Some people think that as long as coolant isn't leaking out the thermostat housing, it's functioning fine.
Something as simple as this could lead to major engine failure. Glad you got it sorted out Alex. Have a safe trip!
To the rest of you DSM'ers who can't remeber when was the last time you replaced your rad cap, spend $10 and do your car a favour I use the Prestone ones that you can find at Canadian tire. They function just as good as OEM.
Rad cap should be replaced every few years. I can't even recall how many DSM's I have worked on and while the motor is cool, I pop off the rad cap and point out the cracked seal to the owner. Some people think that as long as coolant isn't leaking out the thermostat housing, it's functioning fine.
Something as simple as this could lead to major engine failure. Glad you got it sorted out Alex. Have a safe trip!
To the rest of you DSM'ers who can't remeber when was the last time you replaced your rad cap, spend $10 and do your car a favour I use the Prestone ones that you can find at Canadian tire. They function just as good as OEM.
Thanks Reza, Mine got progressively worse as continued taking it on and off. I used some oil to protect seals on my new rad cap.
Another solid 1000k drive today. She does not overheat even when driving through mountains. I should arrive at my destination tomorrow
Unless you like driving for more than 10 hours a day, I think 1,000 kms/day is a good amount to keep your sanity
You are absolutely right. I was a cheap ass and slept in my car at rest stops in May, so it got a little chilly in the mornings. Was woken up at 6ish by the sun and drove until about 1-2am. Some nice food stops, taking time here and there. It was a mission but I got to Calgary in just under 2 days.
Hey Alex lets see some pics of the Talon in L.A. maybe near a famous landmark,like the Hollywood sign,Grauman's chinese theatre LOL,for us poor schmucks stuck up here LOL
DSMers Here is short story and update from my DSM book...
I have completed what I thought was impossible...I relocated my Canadian DSM to southern California and got all paper work needed to pass emissions and complete registration. Smogged and registered
So I decided to take her some place special....far up into the mountains (6000 feet plus) called Angels Forest Park. I will let pics do the talking...
Looking good buddy. You just need to have some faith in your DSM, it's amazing what she'll do
99% Cali vehicle are none AWD....AWD DSM sure makes it special. Smog guy refused to believe mine was AWD....he dropped his belly on the ground with flashlight to verify....haha
Originally Posted by Mike Petro
Snow? ... in Cali?
They have it all....ocean, white sand, palm trees, snow, and 320 days of sun
Originally Posted by Stephen Richardson
What kind of Etest do they down there?
I don't even know where to start. Vehicles are build differently for Cali compared to Canada or other 49 states.
Originally Posted by Jason Drew
Beautiful shots Alex!
Who'd a thought you could get some awd donuts going on in Cali!
Now I know why there are zero GSX's here .... GST's only. According to some sources...all Cali DSMs were GSTs
Today was a good day! My Talon received treatment that was long overdue. Fresh brakes and synthetic oil.
Finally convinced one family to let me borrow their driveway. Had to answers questions like: Why local mechanic can't do it, what will neighbors say, what will I do with old oil, what if I spill oil...
Its so odd that SO many clean/wild modified cars come from California but the modification and emission rules are so damn tight over there.
There are ways around it. Once I have my own driveway/garage again I will re-install my 3" exhaust. Just need to keep stock parts handy and absolutely no show off in the city driving.
Originally Posted by Terry Sikora
It's nice to have a driveway to work on...even if it comes with enough questions that it makes you feel like your being accused of murder lol.
Must feel nice to turn a wrench again eh?
Defiantly feels nice. I have few more projects coming up that don't require driveway. Cooling fan upgrade and Rockford 4 channel amp under the passenger seat installation. Should be able to get done easily somewhere on the quite parking lot.
As some of your may heard on the news Los Angeles is being pounded by severe rain and thunderstorms causing floods and water damages. So I decided to drive my Talon again into Angeles forest 7000 feet up into the mountains and have a little fun. I'll let pics do the talking...
This is what your boost gauge looks like at 7000feet with engine turned off where atmospheric pressure is low.
There have been a few changes...both good and bad. The good: Wife started new job since we moved here in Oct 2013; Therefore we added third commute car. The bad: We only have two parking spots assigned. With an addition of third car it becomes a bit of a problem.
My Talon has been relocated and put to sleep far away in the desert with all my toys. When my current lease expires in October i will try to find new home with enough parking spots and hopefully a garage. Until than my Talon needs to hibernate and all projects are currently on hold.
Last pic of my engine bay. Showing off some amazing paint work Jason D did with radiator brackets plus few others. Thanks to Terry for spare parts.
With the weather you have there, why not DD the thing?
Just gotta convert over to SD to get rid of the MAF and long recirc piping.
Thanks! I tried but its just hard to enjoy Talon in hot bumper to bumper over an hour traffic with 6 puck clutch and no AC. Plus i dont want to kill her and put into un-drivable state. No garage and i trust no one to wrench her! 260K on factory motor
How long is she going to be sitting for at a time?
Until end of October hopefully. If I can't find next home with enough parking spots than possibly even longer.
Originally Posted by Lucian Marta
Looks good Alex!
Thanks Lucian
Originally Posted by Terry Sikora
A sad day indeed, but this is the absolute best choice in a bad situation. Here's to a sunny future
haha thanks! Here is short list of achivemnets - she made all way from Toronto to Los Angeles - passed smog and inspection - used as DD when wife needed Outlander - long Sunday road trips around Cali - attended first LA DSM meet - made it all the way to desert storage garage All on the factory 245-260k motor
Originally Posted by Bryan Lawrence
When did this happen! You were always so proud that you still had AC
Right before i left to Cali. My compressor started making weird noises so i just cut AC belt before i left.
It's doable to have that fan mounted there. I have a large one mounted there as well, no issues. BUT I also have a heat shield covering that whole area so that heat stays near the engine and not the front. Alex should be good.
I've melted a fan where you installed yours and it was slightly further away. Can you mount it on the other side? Switch polarity?
Originally Posted by Guillaume Berton
It's doable to have that fan mounted there. I have a large one mounted there as well, no issues. BUT I also have a heat shield covering that whole area so that heat stays near the engine and not the front. Alex should be good.
Originally Posted by Stephan Tanchak
It wont melt as long as you wrap your exhaust parts and it's a good quality fan.
Originally Posted by Jason Drew
It's usually not an issue with heat shields in place. Just keep the fan running and it'll keep the heat away.
Thanks for the input guys. Switching fans is not an option since i still have AC condenser behind. I also worry about melting it esp near waste gate arm and flapper side since that area is not shielded. The fan quality is high and electrical motor is shielded with metal bracket. Keeping fingers crossed.
AC Fan will be wired to switch on when ever passenger is on. Stock down-pipe is heat wrapped.
The fan, housing and centre piece melted. The fan wouldn't spin, because it was held on by a plastic piece that was connected to the motors shaft and that melted too.
Completely removed old wiring...redid it from scratch.
As i applied power for the first time Defi gauge self calibrated and arrow stopped precisely at zero Engine was not yet started...still need to put more time to finish installation. Next visit it should be all done.
That gauge "defi-nitely" ( sorry..I had to ) looks like a very nice piece.
Nice work
Originally Posted by Bryan Lawrence
I dig it, the bezel definitely looks better in your pictures than it did on the store pictures.
Originally Posted by Jason Drew
That's a very nice looking gauge
Thanks! Out of all boost gauges i had (Stewart Warner, Autometer, Prosport) this one defiantly stand out in terms of quality and accuracy. Still need more of my own testing to confirm accuracy but i doubt it will disappoint.
Defi boost gauge installed and working well. This gauge is one of those things you try and never go back. Precisely accurate readings for vacuum and boost. I can trust it with tuning since it lines up with my GM3Bar logged boost.
Took my Talon for test drive. Defi gauge and my new cooling fan are working well
For next project i'll try to install flex fuel sensor
I do but its not fresh. Its in pieces right now stored safely in Toronto. Its a 99 revised 7bolt that came off my Spyder. Its a much better candidate for rebuild than my current motor. I haven't figured out exactly how to proceed it.
Originally Posted by Jason Drew
Just gorgeous Alex Thank you Jason. And have faith in the 7 bolt!
I have faith in 7 bolt but mine at 255k is bit pushing faith too far. It pushes combustion gases slowly into my cooling system under moderate boost which screws up my cooling efficiency
Originally Posted by Bryan Lawrence
Damn son! I had no idea that willow springs was that close to you, super jealous!!
What would you do if you were here?
Originally Posted by Salomon Ponte
My friend's fully built Evo X decided to catch on fire and burn to the ground at Willow Springs.
Glad to hear the red car is still getting her share of attention!
Thanks Salomon! Fire is scary especially here in dry Cali. Its not only your car that catch on fire all it need is a tiny spark to ignite all that dry grass.
Originally Posted by Mike Eng
I'm jealous.. It's already getting so cold up here.
You got a guest room for me?
Its been devastating hot here for the last month. Pretty much everyday temps exceed 40c (30c close to ocean). For boosted cars its no fun.
I would have a track car and be ripping through there all the time, trying to improve my track times!! You need to run aftermarket head studs and then get an oil cooler setup to keep it nice and cool!
At least you know how many miles are on yours lol, I picked mine up out of the back of a guy's car with unknown miles but no crank play so I rolled with it.
Defi boost gauge installed and working well. This gauge is one of those things you try and never go back. Precisely accurate readings for vacuum and boost. I can trust it with tuning since it lines up with my GM3Bar logged boost.
Long story short...I had to move my Talon from existing storage due to spike in cost. Thankfully i found another storage for reasonable rate. However, the new rate is only good for 2 month. Most likely need to move again...:(
I almost managed to complete one of my winter projects: - install 4 channel audio amplifier and redo existing wiring My old 2 channel amp was attached to rear seat and wiring job was installed poorly and no longer meets my quality standards
New rockford fosgate 4 channel amp has been relocated to spare wheel well area. I still need to get creative to figure out how to mount it in there. The goal is to make 100% invisible and also able to fit spare tire on top of it.
If you want to free up space in the spare tire well, you could mount the amp under the passenger seat. It's te factory placement for my car.
Thanks Mike, i tried but there was not enough space under the passenger seat. Rockford amp is twice as thick as factory which blocks the seat from making proper contact with floor studs. It would be ideal if i could fit it in there but out of luck.
While most DSMs hibernated until end of winter...mine is out & ripping through high altitude Californian snow like never before [video:youtube]http://youtu.be/5nY0tiNRNnE[/video]
I feel like I've been posting way too many pics lately . However, i have some good news. I figure out a way to have my mancave back in Cali.... finally I can resume my projects once again. Just a few pics to confirm it's real
I'm always a fan of ALL your pics, but this one just seems to be one step above.
That is why I enjoy taking them. Because of comments like yours. Thank you Jeremy!
Originally Posted by Bryan Lawrence
Definitely, looks like you have a ton of space now!!
It's a rented townhouse. Total parking space = 3. Two in garage and one outside. Enough space in garage but not enough for another parts car. But i am defiantly happy to move out from 1 bedroom apartment with only 2 parking spots.
Originally Posted by Manny Sandhu
From the first day i witnessed Alex's beauty of a 2g ive been jealous.
Definately as clean as i hope to achieve with my 2g
Thanks Manny. Up close it's not perfect. Paint is mostly original from factory so it showing it's age. Deep Man did my front bumper so clear coat is absolutely perfect but rest of the car is falling behind.
Very happy to see the work bench method alive and kicking.
it's time to tear into that beast and remove it's heart
A little update. So i decided to replace my 2G steering wheel with a 3G unit.
I found this 3G eclipse at my local junk yard.
It had exactly what i need it. The wheel was a bit beat up but the best i could find so far.
My stock 2g wheel with wrapper on it.
Both wheels side by side.
Interchangeable air bags.
2G Cruise control switch needed some grinding on the 3g wheel.
Final product:
Some of the advantages: - direct swap - horn at center of the wheel - smaller diameter. Overall it feels more tighter. - better gauges visibility - improved design - still a Mitsu product
This upgrade was recommended by Terry S so i personally want to thank him for it. I used this write up.
The 3g wheel is smaller in diameter? In your side by side pic, is it just an illusion, as the wheel that's closer, looks much larger in diameter? (& I assume this to be the 3g wheel as its 3 vs 4 spokes)
So the 3g wheel doesn't require changing the hub like the evo wheel?
Nope, the hub is exactly the same as 2g. The only mod needed is 2G cruise control switch. 3G cruise control is totally different unit.
Originally Posted by Daren Peacock
The 3g wheel is smaller in diameter? In your side by side pic, is it just an illusion, as the wheel that's closer, looks much larger in diameter? (& I assume this to be the 3g wheel as its 3 vs 4 spokes)
The 3G wheel is smaller in diameter but not as small as evo 8. I would say 3G diameter is between 2G and Evo 8. You right that picture i took is not good. I will try to get exact measurements when I get back into garage.
Speaking about evo8. Yesterday i scored set of 4 evo 8 wheels One step closer to front evo 8 Brembos upgrade. These will clear brembos nicely and as far as i know does not require fender rolling as long as my tires are 235/40/R17
Thanks Alex, it probably won't be for a while as I want to get through the tires I have for summer right now but really appreciate that, will definitely let you know!
That is looking beautiful! What's the plan for the revised 7? rebuild or just going to swap it in? How man kms is on it
Thanks Alex, it probably won't be for a while as I want to get through the tires I have for summer right now but really appreciate that, will definitely let you know!
That is looking beautiful! What's the plan for the revised 7? rebuild or just going to swap it in? How man kms is on it
Keep me posted. Defiantly a full stock rebuild for revised 7 bolt. But first i need to figure out how to bring it back here from GTA
Some red 2G love. After so many years of owning it i finally decided to tint my windows. 15% rear and 25% on doors. Should match well with factory black/red Talon trim.
As of today, new manifold heat shield for OEM looks
And is that a bungee cord holding down the lid of your fuse box?
Fuse is for my 4 channel amp that powers all my speakers. Bungee cord keeps tention on injen intake so it does not bang over the frame. It was one of those temporary solutions that never went away. I need to find time and boxed it up like Jason D did. Also it will prevent hot manifold air from entering intake.
It looks like the fuse is connected in parallel from that angle. Should be in series from the amp. But that might be just the angle.
Far easier to make a bracket that clamps the maf sensor for another spot to secure the intake. When I had a maf, I got creative with just a 3mm thick 1"x8" piece of metal, a drill and bench vise, hammer, nuts and bolts. Was basically an "L" bracket that bolted to the maf and bolts to the frame rail. Just an easy, hidden spot. It Worked great too!
Just an idea if you have scrap metal kicking around.
It looks like the fuse is connected in parallel from that angle. Should be in series from the amp. But that might be just the angle.
Far easier to make a bracket that clamps the maf sensor for another spot to secure the intake. When I had a maf, I got creative with just a 3mm thick 1"x8" piece of metal, a drill and bench vise, hammer, nuts and bolts. Was basically an "L" bracket that bolted to the maf and bolts to the frame rail. Just an easy, hidden spot. It Worked great too!
Just an idea if you have scrap metal kicking around.
Thats a good idea actually. Post some pics if have them kicking around
Yep. The bracket I made was much longer and durable than that one.
IIRC, I used a bolt hole on the frame rail which was used for the factory BCS, an m8 10mm hex cap thread pitch of 1.25mm x 25mm. At the maf sensor, there are already predrilled holes that can snugly fit an m6 bolt. Shaped a bracket that actually was more like an L bracket but with a tab to accept the m6 bolt at the sensor. It's little work. And it hides the under the maf.
Don't forget the matching lock washers if you do it. The torque from the motor can wiggle it loose. Which is why I also used o-rings as make shift bushings.
While you guys getting your DSMs back on the road mine went back on jack stands. Head will be removed and short block surface inspected. It's time to find answers why she overheats and pushes coolant.
One of the runners is showing sings of oil leak. Others are bone dry. Is it okay for 260k original motor?
What impresses me is not just how clean everything is, but how clean it remains all throughout the job. I try to keep mine clean as a rule, but she gets messy as hell when she's under the knife, and then I clean it all up at the end.
What impresses me is not just how clean everything is, but how clean it remains all throughout the job. I try to keep mine clean as a rule, but she gets messy as hell when she's under the knife, and then I clean it all up at the end.
What impresses me is not just how clean everything is, but how clean it remains all throughout the job. I try to keep mine clean as a rule, but she gets messy as hell when she's under the knife, and then I clean it all up at the end.
You keep the bar high, sir.
Thanks Jeremy, During lifting engine/trany with a crane i managed to leave two deep scratches behind in the engine bay . Overall it was a 5 day project (spread over few weeks) to get engine out & on the stand. I make slow progress and try to keep "gotta be done today" thoughts out of my head. I am divided on the idea of pulling engine/trany in one shot. Maybe i just need more practice but drooping trany down first and than pulling motor alone is much easier task to accomplish.
During lifting engine/trany with a crane i managed to leave two deep scratches behind in the engine bay
It's tough to avoid that completely, especially if you're doing things alone. This winter I managed to get mine out alone without scratching or rubbing anything, but my engine bay is fairly empty.
Going back in, I had an extra set of hands helping out. We still managed to leave a couple scratches on the one frame rail. Bit of touch up paint; nobody but my Dad and I will ever know it happened
Yeah if you're putting it in together one shot it's kinda almost impossible to not scuff something.
I've always liked doing it separate. I've never had a problem scratching anything when the engine goes straight down into its home, then the tranny gets installed from the bottom afterwards
I was gonna say get an engine leveler, but noticed you were already using one. If its your first time that's normal. I can usually pull it out and put it back in without touching anything. It's an art!
I do however have the pneumatic engine hoist which lets you keep one hand on the leveler to guide the motor/tranny out and one hand on the button. Let's you keep a good visual on things when pulling it out.
Yeah if you're putting it in together one shot it's kinda almost impossible to not scuff something.
I've always liked doing it separate. I've never had a problem scratching anything when the engine goes straight down into its home, then the tranny gets installed from the bottom afterwards
2g's are easier than 1g imho to do it in one piece, I got mine in my bay with the power steering pump mounted on the rear of the motor without a scratch by myself.
Shorter chains on the leveler helps a lot. I think mine are 4 links long.
I was gonna say get an engine leveler, but noticed you were already using one. If its your first time that's normal. I can usually pull it out and put it back in without touching anything. It's an art!
I do however have the pneumatic engine hoist which lets you keep one hand on the leveler to guide the motor/tranny out and one hand on the button. Let's you keep a good visual on things when pulling it out.
The last motor i pulled had no tranny plus radiator support removed which is un-comparable to what i did this time.
Originally Posted by Jason Drew
Shorter chains on the leveler helps a lot. I think mine are 4 links long.
Shorter chains is defiantly a good idea and would've help with engine not leaning forward as upper lift arm extends upward.
Originally Posted by Jeremy Gilbert
Yeah I'm sure I would do better with a proper leveler. I just lift by the engine and use a come-along attached to the transmission to adjust the angle
i had quite a bit of battle even with the leveler haha. At some point I gave up and removed harmonic balancer pulley to help with clearance a bit.
Yesterday i managed to take more things apart. One of the annoying issues i had with this motor was overheating. I was hoping to find answers after removing head from the block & inspecting the headgasket.
Here are details shots of my headgasket. I don't see any damages/cracks that stand out to me but i am no expert on this. Anyone with more experience please have a look and let me know what you think. Original 1996 block with 260k
I'd rather see it in person to confirm, but as far as I can tell, there were no problems with that head gasket (assuming the discoloration in the top and bottom right corners to be fluid on top of the gasket).
I'd rather see it in person to confirm, but as far as I can tell, there were no problems with that head gasket (assuming the discoloration in the top and bottom right corners to be fluid on top of the gasket).
Thanks for confirmation Jeremy, I will have this block inspected by machine shop to see if anything else comes up. Also, my balance shaft belt was chewed beyond recognition. I will post pic shortly.
okokok..... I'm going to be that guy before you bring the block in for an inspection. What is the condition of: Coolant cap? Thermostat? Is there proper ducting from the intercooler to the rad? Have you flushed the coolant system? When it was all put together, was the system bled properly? And lastly, what was the condition of the coolant when you drained it?
Lets get to the bottom of this, because I doubt you're overheating because of something going wrong in the block.
okokok..... I'm going to be that guy before you bring the block in for an inspection. What is the condition of: Coolant cap? Thermostat? Is there proper ducting from the intercooler to the rad? Have you flushed the coolant system? When it was all put together, was the system bled properly? And lastly, what was the condition of the coolant when you drained it?
Lets get to the bottom of this, because I doubt you're overheating because of something going wrong in the block.
Lets not bring this back again it's too late for that. She's getting full rebuild soon
Originally Posted by Jeremy Gilbert
Your balance shaft belt let go? And didn't take the timing belt?
Lucky guy
On my previous T-Belt job the B-Belt was ripped also. There might be a problem that causing it
So it appears my balance shaft is ceased which now explains why it broke the belt. I was pretty much set on deleting balance shaft on this block but then i came across this article at jackstransmissions.
What are your opinions on balance shafts? delete it or keep it
I found that article quite interesting when I ran across it a while ago. I believe there is a lot of truth in there. At the same time, you have to consider the information as it is relative to your situation.
Realistically, how many kilometers do you expect to rack up on that engine after the rebuild? 50,000? 100,000? People have regularly gone further on engines without balance shafts without crankshaft or bearing failure.
So then, how about the vibration? Well, the range that generally gets worse (from what I hear) is the 2-3000RPM range, and possibly beyond that a bit. That's right around where you'll sit at on the highway (with your Evo3 fifth in). I know you're the type of person who enjoys a quiet, vibration-free cabin. It may be worth it for you in that sense.
My personal take is.. if you have balance shafts, with proper maintenance, you can keep them without too much worry unless your engine regularly sees very high RPM. If you don't have balance shafts, don't worry about it (though my lack of balance shafts was partial motivation for a Fluidampr). Unfortunately you seem to be stuck between those scenarios.
Probably not as direct an answer as you were looking for, but maybe some food for thought.
Most will tell you there isn't too much of a variation in vibration with or without it. Deleting it also avoids the possibility of that belt breaking the timing belt.
Personally, I like keeping stock components. In the grand scheme of things however, if your engine it out anyway and this already happened to it, I'd take it out and avoid more issues later. You'd also save a little weight
I read that and also saw someone post a good point, that it could just be something Jack's wanted to use to deny warranty claims.
Isn't the BS delete not an OEM part?
That thing is spinning insanely fast when you're at redline, I don't trust them personally.
One guy on the ecmlink board pointed something out, that most/all of the people who had oil pump failures were using Kevlar t belts. Which I thought was interesting.
The correct part is the stub shaft from the 1.6L, which is an oem part. There are however non-oem stub shafts available, whick lack the oil groove.
Jacks isn't the only one who changed his mind on balance shafts, AMS, while a little different suggests using their "race" balance shaft on the oil pump.
My personal take is.. if you have balance shafts, with proper maintenance, you can keep them without too much worry unless your engine regularly sees very high RPM. If you don't have balance shafts, don't worry about it (though my lack of balance shafts was partial motivation for a Fluidampr). Unfortunately you seem to be stuck between those scenarios.
Fluidampr crank pulley maybe a good alternative when not using BS plus without BS the timing belt job seems to be a lot easier to do. Once i determine the exact cause of my ceased BS i will go from there.
Originally Posted by Stephan Tanchak
I read that and also saw someone post a good point, that it could just be something Jack's wanted to use to deny warranty claims.
I usually don't believe when i read stuff like that. If you were the company owner would you approve this lie to go out in public? may save a few buck in short term but will kill your business in long term haha
Originally Posted by Jason Drew
The correct part is the stub shaft from the 1.6L, which is an oem part. There are however non-oem stub shafts available, whick lack the oil groove.
Jacks isn't the only one who changed his mind on balance shafts, AMS, while a little different suggests using their "race" balance shaft on the oil pump.
Realistically, how many kilometers do you expect to rack up on that engine after the rebuild? 50,000? 100,000? People have regularly gone further on engines without balance shafts without crankshaft or bearing failure.
So then, how about the vibration? Well, the range that generally gets worse (from what I hear) is the 2-3000RPM range, and possibly beyond that a bit. That's right around where you'll sit at on the highway (with your Evo3 fifth in). I know you're the type of person who enjoys a quiet, vibration-free cabin. It may be worth it for you in that sense.
Hopefully not as often because projects like this take way too much of time. I do enjoy working on it but the older i get the less DSM time i have. It also needs access to garage which may not always be available. You are correct about my DSM liking. I hate rattling interior and filthy engine bays! I do have Evo 5th in stock which will be going in shortly.
I read that and also saw someone post a good point, that it could just be something Jack's wanted to use to deny warranty claims.
I usually don't believe when i read stuff like that. If you were the company owner would you approve this lie to go out in public? may save a few buck in short term but will kill your business in long term haha
Agreed, and with a bit of additional research, you can find supporting evidence for the majority of that article. I find most people who think they're just trying to dodge warranty claims are people for whom the article's content is a bit out of reach.
With a mildly modified engine and a 7500RPM redline, I think you're going to be fine either way. Mitsubishi trusted their balance shafts to do 7500RPM all day; I'm tempted to agree with them.
Finding the cause of the existing problem is an excellent first step.
Jacks claim is correct, I have personally experienced a smoother shifting transmission in cars with balance shafts. However with the clutch setups that are available now and being able to dial in that extra little bit of throw makes this negligible IMO.
Personally I would just remove it. I like the way the motor sounds and revs more freely without them. It is one less thing to worry about as yours has already seized. I would at least pull it out to see why it has seized. If the bearing has spun out, it could be losing oil pressure. If your gonna remove it make sure you block off the oil passage, or simply leave the shaft in there, but make sure you address the seized shaft first.
When I did my build I went back & forth between ditching the BS's or running the race BS. I ended up ditching them, just one less potential failure point. But I did swap to the straight cut oil pump gears, to prevent the loading issue with the helical gears.
If I was to build a Street DSM, personally I would want it to be as smooth as possible. I cant stand the vibrations, rattly interiors, poly mounts on the streets. Track that's all cool.
Today i managed to find the last items i needed to complete my black interior swap project. For a few years I've been looking for mint rear black leather seats off 2g or even better 3g.
Today i found what i was looking at my local junk yard. Here are some pics:
I know it's been a while but... the biggest update is coming to my DSM in 2015. Here is a list so far:
- EDM Tail Lights with carbon fiber center piece - Rally Armor mud flaps - Carbonetics front skirt - EVO 8 Enkei wheels powder coated satin black with Decals (thanks Jason Drew ) - ABS delete - Evo III Intake and 5th gear - Brembo front rotors and calipers - Fresh 4G63 engine rebuild using mostly OEM components - E85 kit from ECM link
I was pretty sure I remembered you using those but wasn't sure. Nice to pair them up with the fronts Definitely a good idea to go to the 3G master and booster with that setup.
After 10 years of ownership, 260000 km on the clock, and the longest road trip from Toronto to Los Angeles, i finally completed rebuild of my 96 good old 7-bolt block.
Today i picked it up from the machine shop called Coast Motor Supply.
Few pics:
Just a fresh mostly OEM rebuild with balance shafts deleted. I provided my own parts and the shop only did machining and partial assembly. List of parts used in this build coming soon.
Nice work Alex!! Machine shop was pretty quick too eh! Very curious to see your parts list.
I gotta ask though, why Mr. OEM did you remove the balance shafts? Ever since I known you it's always about keeping things the way they were designed, what convinced you?
Nice work Alex!! Machine shop was pretty quick too eh! Very curious to see your parts list.
I gotta ask though, why Mr. OEM did you remove the balance shafts? Ever since I known you it's always about keeping things the way they were designed, what convinced you?
Thanks Bryan, The original balance shaft bearing spun so keeping it was never an option on this block
Front wheel well cleaning and POR15. Need this done before Brembos go in. Passenger side done, just need to spray Rubberized Under Coating once its dry.
One out of two major milestones completed. The following includes:
- evo 8 wheels powder coated satin black - VENTUS R-S3 tires - ABS delete with SS lines - 3G Eclipse master and booster - Fender rolling to clear 245 tire - front wheel wells restoration - front brembo calipers with JDM Galant knuckles - evo 8 rotors - evo 8 rally armor mudflaps - lots of cleaning and painting with por15
Next i need to assemble my engine. I will have questions to post for sure.
That looks proper! Nice job man, awesome pics.. And that chair you have for working the wheel wells looks like a game changer!
Thank you Kyle The minute i saw that chair on amazon I knew it was the one i always wanted in my garage.
Originally Posted by Jason Drew
How was the fitment of the Evo mudflaps? Look pretty good all installed.
Not a bolt on, I had to get creative to get them mounted the way i wanted. Some holes lined up on the front but not for the rear. However, It was easy to work with because it's all plastic
Here is the latest progress so far: I got my freshly rebuilt motor all put back together with l19 studs and OEM mls headgasket. Electrical sensors, belts, oil pump, gaskets etc, have all been replaced with new OEM. Some parts such as intake manifold, 1G throttle body, and water pipes were restored and powder coated thanks to Jason D.
This weekend i reinstalled my 6 puck clutch with 2100 ACT PP, bolted flywheel & tranny back to the block and dropped it all as one unit back into the engine bay. Transfer case, axles, and all suspension components have also been reinstalled and torqued to specs. Within a week or so i should be able to give her a first crank....can't wait
Wicked shots!! Engine looks like it's new from the factory!
Originally Posted by Jeremy Gilbert
Looks very fresh! Great work bud
Originally Posted by Lucian Marta
Great work man
Originally Posted by Mike Eng
Yeah that's some great progress Alex!
Thank you for the kind words gents Few things that came up:
1st: The long block was pre-lubed by machine shop, i did not prime it when i was putting it all together. Do i just crank the starter without spark plugs and main fuse removed to build up some oil pressure? open to recommendations. Also, i heard the best way to break-in new rings is to drive it hard off the line. This option may not be the best for me because my suspension must be aligned first. At least first 20 miles will be eaten away by a trip to an alignment shop.
2nd: i wanted to get AC working again so i got used AC compressor off the 97 GST from local junkie. It appears Mitsubishi changed AC systems in 2Gb. The compressor does bolt up to the 2Ga bracket but lines don't bolt up. I ordered 2gb lines from ebay so hopefully that will do the trick. Here is the comparison of two compressors:
I usually prime the pump with a drill or pack the oil pump with grease and just fire it up, kinda too late if it's already in there now. Some say assembly lube is good enough and just crank it with no fire/fuel for a bit first, some just start it right up.
Just did a BSE on my cousins car due to a spun BS bearing a week ago and did the grease packing method, had oil at the head within seconds, just started it directly.
I usually prime the pump with a drill or pack the oil pump with grease and just fire it up, kinda too late if it's already in there now. Some say assembly lube is good enough and just crank it with no fire/fuel for a bit first, some just start it right up.
Just did a BSE on my cousins car due to a spun BS bearing a week ago and did the grease packing method, had oil at the head within seconds, just started it directly.
Thanks for the info Jason. I'll crank it without fuel & fire first before starting her up. Looks like the best option to follow so far. I'll keep everyone posted.
Any recommended oil to use on first 20 miles? i know must not be synthetic so wear can occur
Just buy the cheap generic part store oil for the first 20 mile run, 10w30 or 10w40, whatever is on sale and conventional. After that I would recommend a good high zinc content oil, unless you are concerned with destroying your cat.
Just buy the cheap generic part store oil for the first 20 mile run, 10w30 or 10w40, whatever is on sale and conventional. After that I would recommend a good high zinc content oil, unless you are concerned with destroying your cat.
Sure i'll run cheap none synthetic oil for first 20 miles & drive hard to set the rings. As far as cat goes, i am still rocking full stock exhaust system & my Smog test is due by end of next month. Can i run 10w30 Mobil 1 after first 20 miles or continue with conventional oil?
What oil change interval i should follow after 20 miles? I find mixed numbers but most suggest 20/500/1500 miles
Now I've got a question regarding the break in procedure for a new engine.
Let's say your car has a new clutch along with the new rebuilt engine.
You're supposed to drive hard and let the revs climb then drop over and over, but how the heck are you supposed to do that when you have a "new" clutch that you need to keep under 4k rpms while you're breaking that sucker in???
The initial fill is generally kept in for a very short interval (less than 100 miles), then swap in some new oil (conventional) and a filter, and drive on it for ~1000 miles. After that, your break-in period is over; run whatever you like.
During the break-in period, you want to be doing pulls in boost and then engine braking.
If the oil pump wasn't packed with grease, I wouldn't bother turning the engine over without spark/fuel. I find there's not enough RPM from the starter motor alone to pull oil up into the pump when it's not primed. Fire it up and get it up to about 2000 RPM; you should see the oil pressure perk up almost immediately. The assembly lube will do its job.
Now I've got a question regarding the break in procedure for a new engine.
Let's say your car has a new clutch along with the new rebuilt engine.
You're supposed to drive hard and let the revs climb then drop over and over, but how the heck are you supposed to do that when you have a "new" clutch that you need to keep under 4k rpms while you're breaking that sucker in???
Driving it hard enough to set the rings and beating it excessively for the clutch are 2 different things.
That first 20 miles is the crucial point in setting the rings, going on and off boost steadily is not going to hurt a new clutch, as long as you're not slipping the clutch and launching it, I wouldn't worry about it.
Drive it hard, it's called a break in for a reason, the only thing seating the rings is cylinder pressure so don't baby it.
Now I've got a question regarding the break in procedure for a new engine.
Let's say your car has a new clutch along with the new rebuilt engine.
You're supposed to drive hard and let the revs climb then drop over and over, but how the heck are you supposed to do that when you have a "new" clutch that you need to keep under 4k rpms while you're breaking that sucker in???
Driving it hard enough to set the rings and beating it excessively for the clutch are 2 different things.
That first 20 miles is the crucial point in setting the rings, going on and off boost steadily is not going to hurt a new clutch, as long as you're not slipping the clutch and launching it, I wouldn't worry about it.
Drive it hard, it's called a break in for a reason, the only thing seating the rings is cylinder pressure so don't baby it.
I was told to keep it under 4k rpms by Tim Zimmer and no boost for the new SS/TZ combo.
So for clutch break-in it should be okay going into boost and higher rpms past 4k?
Sorry for the thread jack, but am curious, because I don't recall reading about engine break-in with a new clutch as well.
The initial fill is generally kept in for a very short interval (less than 100 miles), then swap in some new oil (conventional) and a filter, and drive on it for ~1000 miles. After that, your break-in period is over; run whatever you like.
During the break-in period, you want to be doing pulls in boost and then engine braking.
If the oil pump wasn't packed with grease, I wouldn't bother turning the engine over without spark/fuel. I find there's not enough RPM from the starter motor alone to pull oil up into the pump when it's not primed. Fire it up and get it up to about 2000 RPM; you should see the oil pressure perk up almost immediately. The assembly lube will do its job.
Thanks for the info. The pump was filled with grease, i verified that. How about cranking it for about 5 seconds and than firing it up with gas?
I always prime my oil pump on the stand with a drill on the oil pump. You learn a lot this way, like how the pump can't push air past the oil filter and actually needs to be primed with packing lube or oil in order for it to get going, otherwise you will get no oil at the head at all.
Small things like leaving the t belt off and priming oil pump is one of those things I leave till the end right before I start the motor. I even set my thrust bearing by leaving the pan off and using clutch pressure and I don't idle the car forever on a rebuilt tranny that was completely dry and just got fresh fluid.
Attention to detail is what makes these cars last
The worst is those DSM builds where the engine has seen so much idle time in the garage while a bunch of DSM buddies hang around trying to diagnose little issues and tell you how mean your cams sounds.
Don't worry about idle and crap on a first start like most people. In fact try not to idle at all. Make sure there are no leaks after first startup, change the oil and go out and pound on it HARD.... Don't be a sissy on the first startup and first pounding, otherwise your motor will be the same
It's been a rough start so far with almost no sleep. Appreciate the help from Terry/Jason/ and Stephan so far.
First idle video after 12 miles of beating on her.
Latest Idle Video after 20+ miles of breaking on conventional oil and refilled to fresh 10/30w mobil one oil.
Cams sounds way too aggressive for stock rebuild. Tried blocking EGR port but it made no difference. No vacuum leaks that I can find. Vacuum at idle seems low around -14. I had -18/20 prior rebuild. Timing at idle is fluctuating between 6 to 20 degrees and old engine 5 -8. Once driving (above 1500rpm) she runs good and pulls normal for 15 psi. Idle is aggressive and a bit shaky. Balance shafts delete.
You went to a synthetic after only 20 miles? You'll want to leave it on conventional longer than that...
There seems to be mixed recomendation on oil. I went with synthetic after initial hard beatup. My biggest problem is idle, it should not be idling like that on stock cams. I can't take it down to anything less than 1000 rpm ((( at least she didnt push coolant during brake in period
You went to a synthetic after only 20 miles? You'll want to leave it on conventional longer than that...
I know, at least 1,000 km's!
Also, from watching your videos you're idling the car too much and the rings are probably not fully seated yet. With the Mobil 1, they might never seat 100%. You're doing exactly opposite of what is intended for a new motor.
Other than the minute or so it takes me to set base timing, I don't idle a new motor for the first 1,000 km either.
You went to a synthetic after only 20 miles? You'll want to leave it on conventional longer than that...
I know, at least 1,000 km's!
Also, from watching your videos you're idling the car too much and the rings are probably not fully seated yet. With the Mobil 1, they might never seat 100%. You're doing exactly opposite of what is intended for a new motor.
Other than the minute or so it takes me to set base timing, I don't idle a new motor for the first 1,000 km either.
I gave it enough beating within first 25 miles so at this point i am done beating on her until i figure out the problem. I do believe beating on her is the right way to set the rings but i also know there are lots of engines out there running with solid compression using "alternative break in" methods including my original block.
Just so everyone knows, after spending several months on the massive project that i just did it makes VERY VERY uncomfortable doing the suggested "break in" method by "driving hard off the drive way" especially when the first start up did not go well as expected!
At this point i can't think about oil, I don't mind dumping synthetic and going back conventional but i am not doing anything until I fix the problem shown in the video.
As already mentioned, check timing, BLT, make sure everything is tight and you're in fact running off of SD or MAF (I can't remember what you're running) The oil talk is the oil talk, and we're already past that point. Are you getting a sensible AFR with that idle?
With ruler between two cam bolt, timing is clearly off. I should've used rule to during timing belt job but i didn't. Now i need to do the timing job with engine in the bay instead of engine stand.
Bryan L was the first one to point out timing issue.
I figured that was it because when I bought my car my vacuum was a bit lower and it was because the timing was two teeth off. That looks like only one so you should be good just need to retime, if you have a buddy in the car timing is not too bad, do you have the tensioner tool?
Very easy to do in engine bay. Maybe get someone who knows what they are doing to help you out?
Jason D has been a great help so far. I just text him photos and he guides in my in the right direction.
Yesterday i gained full access to the belt. I agree with you Reza, it is easy and perfectly doable to work on the T-belt while engine is in the bay.
Here is the thing that bugs me a bit. By lining up cams perfectly the crank mark is slightly off forward. If I take tooth off the crank than it falls off negative too much.
Loosen the tensioner pulley bolt, then use the special tensioner tool and a torque wrench to apply 3.5 Nm (2.6 ft-lbs) of torque to the pulley (this puts a light tension on the timing belt). Tighten the tensioner pulley bolt to spec (48 Nm (35 ft-lbs)) (Figure 20).
Turn the crankshaft 2 revolutions clockwise so that the timing marks are aligned. After leaving it for 15 minutes, measure the auto tensioner push rod gap with a drill bit (distance between the tensioner arm and auto tensioner body) to ensure that it falls within the specification of 3.8-4.5mm (.150-.177in) as shown in Figure 21.
The alignment issue starts before i get to the tensioner pulley. With cam gears locked in place using the insert, I used zip ties to hold belt in place around cam pulleys, next going around idler pulley, and than around oil pump sprocket....and at this point the crank gears needs to be moved slightly off the timing mark for t-belt to fit around it.
I would tell you it's fine but then again I am having a hard time confirming that your cams are straight from the pics, need a closer pic with the camera lens in line with the head and the ruler removed.
Also note that when cams are correctly lined up at 3 and 9 o'clock, the dowel pins for the cams are never straight up at 12 o'clock contrary to what is written in manuals. The intake cam dowel is slightly towards 11 o'clock and the exhaust dowel is slightly towards 1 o'clock.
Also that plate could have a little wear in the keyway slot. If you took it off you would see a little dimple on the balance shaft sprocket which shows you where TDC is without the plate. Also you could stick a long screwdriver into cylinder # 1 and you could visually see the screwdriver reach its highest point at TDC which should match the crank mark.
In regards to setting the tension, forget the vfaq method.
(1)Screw tensioner tool into hole until grenade pin can easily slide in and out of the tensioner. Leave grenade pin in the tensioner and leave the tensioner tool in place.
(2)With everything lined up and at TDC: set tension and then back off the tensioner tool rod. At this point the grenade pin should slide in/out of tensioner easily. If not, screw the tensioner rod back in, reset tension and repeat this procedure until the grenade pin can slide in/out with ease.
(3)Once pin can slide in/out without resistance, remove pin, spin motor over 6 times, wait 15 minutes and grenade pin should slide back into tension at TDC. Remove pin and tensioner rod and you are set.
You can even start the car at this point with just the timing belt on and no other belt, accessories or covers. Just don't do it for long as the water pump isn't spinning
This is how to properly set tension so that the tensioner operates within its usable range.
I would tell you it's fine but then again I am having a hard time confirming that your cams are straight from the pics, need a closer pic with the camera lens in line with the head and the ruler removed.
Also note that when cams are correctly lined up at 3 and 9 o'clock, the dowel pins for the cams are never straight up at 12 o'clock contrary to what is written in manuals. The intake cam dowel is slightly towards 11 o'clock and the exhaust dowel is slightly towards 1 o'clock
Here is the best one i got from yesterday:
Originally Posted by Reza Mirza
Also that plate could have a little wear in the keyway slot. If you took it off you would see a little dimple on the balance shaft sprocket which shows you where TDC is without the plate. Also you could stick a long screwdriver into cylinder # 1 and you could visually see the screwdriver reach its highest point at TDC which should match the crank mark.
That's very useful thanks. I read about screw driver method before but didn't trust it because it's not as precise as timing marks. Apparently when piston 1 is at TDC, i can still rotate crank slightly in either direction and piston 1 will not move. I have not verified that so i could be wrong.
I will perform screwdriver method after work anyway just to be sure. I can also try sticking "inspection camera" behind the plate to see what i can see. If both checks out than i can give her a try to see how it goes.
Originally Posted by Reza Mirza
In regards to setting the tension, forget the vfaq method.
(1)Screw tensioner tool into hole until grenade pin can easily slide in and out of the tensioner. Leave grenade pin in the tensioner and leave the tensioner tool in place.
(2)With everything lined up and at TDC: set tension and then back off the tensioner tool rod. At this point the grenade pin should slide in/out of tensioner easily. If not, screw the tensioner rod back in, reset tension and repeat this procedure until the grenade pin can slide in/out with ease.
(3)Once pin can slide in/out without resistance, remove pin, spin motor over 6 times, wait 15 minutes and grenade pin should slide back into tension at TDC. Remove pin and tensioner rod and you are set.
You can even start the car at this point with just the timing belt on and no other belt, accessories or covers. Just don't do it for long as the water pump isn't spinning
This is how to properly set tension so that the tensioner operates within its usable range.
After i spun my motor 6 times and waited 15 minutes i measured 3.9 mm between tensioner and tensioner arm. I'll leave it as that for now but if i have to do again i will try your method first.
The first time I did a timing belt in the engine bay I used one of those plastic things for the cams. I had the same problem: no matter how "lined up" everything was when I put the belt on, once it was tensioned something was off. It's because the portion of the belt between the cams and crank on the idler side is not tensioned when you put it on, and when you tension it, it pulls them out of line. I solved it by retarding the crank one tooth when I laid the belt on; it all lined up when tensioned.
The next time I did a belt in car, I left the plastic thing in my toolbox and used a method similar to Reza's. It went much more quickly.
Either way, glad you sorted your problem. Now get that Mobil 1 out of your engine, put some conventional back in, and GO BREAK HER IN!! I know you've heard mixed reviews on break-in period but anybody who thinks your engine is broken in with less than 50mi on the clock is out of their freaking mind.
When Chris and I did my timing for the first time I used the plastic thing and everything lined up perfect, no tensioner work for me though it was just the tensioning screw was in and then we unscrewed it and the car was good to go, I should probably double check my tensioner as reza specified though because we never did that check when putting everything together.
Actually i did not. With crank half a tooth off as show on the image above she still ran like a Subaru and low vacuum. It was frustrating as i really had my hopes up.
So with "old" alignment as shown above the TDC screwdriver method revealed that the piston one was slightly off the TDC point when crank was slightly off the timing mark as show above.
I took out the belt & started from the beginning again. This time i did not use the plastic insert. Instead, i zip tied t-belt around intake cam first, rotated crank to line up to timing mark, then i rotated intake counter clockwise slightly off 9 o'clock mark so t-belt teeth could engage perfectly with the crank. At first it looked like the cam gear is off (around 8:30) but ignored that and aligned & zip tied exhaust cam and then finished tensioning the t-belt.
To my surprise here is the new alignment:
Originally Posted by Reza Mirza
You can even start the car at this point with just the timing belt on and no other belt, accessories or covers. Just don't do it for long as the water pump isn't spinning
^ that saved me a ton of time, thank you!
Originally Posted by Jeremy Gilbert
Now get that Mobil 1 out of your engine, put some conventional back in, and GO BREAK HER IN!!
^ Synthetic has been flushed out and refilled with conventional oil. I'll keep it there for next 1000 km
I took her out for a drive and immediately notice more low end torque and more power at WOT. Roughly around 20-30%. She felt much more responsive and vacuum at idle was -19/-20.
Now (900rpm):
Before (1100rpm):
Originally Posted by Jeremy Gilbert
It's because the portion of the belt between the cams and crank on the idler side is not tensioned when you put it on, and when you tension it, it pulls them out of line.
^ that's the key right there and solution to my problem. Thanks again Jeremy
If you do happen to have exhaust leaks, Extreme PSI's new MLS exhaust gaskets work beautifully, I've replaced all on my car with them and now have zero leaks.
If you do happen to have exhaust leaks, Extreme PSI's new MLS exhaust gaskets work beautifully, I've replaced all on my car with them and now have zero leaks.
That looks great. I love the stealthy exhaust look I want to hear it too! I bet it's dead quiet with a cat, 2 resonators as well as a big muffler. My Apexi N1 is similar but with a traditional N1 fartcan and it's extremely quiet. Sounds almost stock at idle.
That looks great. I love the stealthy exhaust look I want to hear it too! I bet it's dead quiet with a cat, 2 resonators as well as a big muffler. My Apexi N1 is similar but with a traditional N1 fartcan and it's extremely quiet. Sounds almost stock at idle.
Good call since you live in Cali
Thanks Lucian, it's fairly quite at idle but defiantly deep & loud at WOT. My last custom setup was high flow cat, no resonators, and straight through magnaflow muffler. The humming noise at 120km/h was annoying on long trips. This setup so far seems perfectly balanced between flow and sound. I still need more time to toy with it. Video is coming soon.
Thanks Stephan, still toying with it. Just too much going on at once these days. Hopefully soon i can boost happy.
Originally Posted by Jeremy Gilbert
Agreed (on both fronts).
I was very upset when UPI over on 24 decided to get rid of E85.. I never really got much of a chance to play with it.
I thought there was still one left in Guelph no?
Originally Posted by Bryan Lawrence
She looks good Alex!!
Thanks Bryan!
Originally Posted by Jason Drew
Not gonna lie, like that lip better than mine! Curious, what's the price on one?
Thanks Jason, The fitment is PITA on all Carbonetics products. With mine being warped as it was i don't feel its worth more than a hundred bucks. There is some serious stress on my bumper and splash shields to keep this thing straight.
They usually prefer to sell them as a kit which includes front and side skirts. The price started crazy high as 600 but quickly fell by half as we started to negotiate. Mine turned out to be flat black while demo car had CF texture which i didnt know until i unwrapped few days ago.
Here is preview of front and side skirts:
I'll be making a trip home (got rescheduled again) in the spring so i could bring what you need.
Sorry, missed that the first time. As far as I know, the only station nearby that had E85 was just outside Guelph on the way to Cambridge; they stopped stocking E85 a few years ago. Bit of a catch 22 up here: due to the rarity of E85 filling stations, nobody uses it on a regular basis. Since nobody uses it on a regular basis, most stations can't afford to stock it.
Alex can you do me a favor and take a WOT log before it goes on and then after, super curious to see a nice direct comparison between this and the 16g as I am pretty convinced that I will be looking for one of these come next year.
It will most likely be several months before it goes in. Right now I am trying tune SD which is so far been frustrating especially trying to line up wideband to estAF for WOT and POT (partial throttle). I suspect my RTM 95lb injectors are a bit hard to control. Thinking about switching to FIC high Z 1100/1600cc once budget allows.
Once my DSM is dialed-in than I'll start mixing more E85 and cranking boost to the top. I really want to max out my 16g first before switching to 68HTA
Originally Posted by John MacPhail
Originally Posted by Bryan Lawrence
Wicked!!
Alex can you do me a favor and take a WOT log before it goes on and then after, super curious to see a nice direct comparison between this and the 16g
Like to see that also.
Defiantly, i do plenty of logs anyway. I log my car every time drive just like Terry S. lol
If you're going to run E85 I would definitely recommend going higher than 1100cc. Injector Dynamics 1300cc would be an excellent option for maxing both the 16G or the 68HTA on E85, whilst retaining excellent idle and cruise/partial throttle characteristics.
Kudos for having the willpower to not bolt it on this week I think you'll be happy that you've decided to make the switch to E85 and get the issues smoothed out before going to the new turbo.
+1 for before/after logs. I think lots of people here would love to see a direct comparison between the 16G and 68HTA.
So i had a problem with driveshaft yoke. When i had my engine removed i damaged the yoke by leaving it wet (unintentionally) by doing all the cleaning and power washing. The surface on the yoke developed rust quickly and ate away some of the metal. At first, i tried cleaning it out with sand paper but that proven to fail anyway. Always protect the yoke after removing it from the transfer case! I learned that the hard way
Overall it was a PITA to replace it while working under the car with driveshaft attached to the chassis.
^ here you can see surface damage caused by rust on the yoke.
^ The leak spread oil on my down pipe. It smelled like crap
^ New yoke with u-join and new caps. Also replaced output shaft on the transfer case.
^ Extracting yoke out of the drive shaft
Pressing caps onto new u-joint and yoke with the help of the bench vise
Not looking forward doing that again anytime soon. Thankfully the yoke leak is history now
And the good news:
- Replaced stock crank pulley with Fluidampr pulley (the one i got during black friday sale). 6Bolt guys be aware you need to trim plastic lip off your lower timing cover for it to fit. On 2G it still touches the cover slightly but i left it as is and it works.
Doing U-joints under the car is definitely a pain, but it gets much easier with a bit of practice. Of course, it's something you hope to not need to practice
Everything is always so clean in your working pics! Well done
Originally Posted by Alex Akachinskiy
- Replaced stock crank pulley with Fluidampr pulley (the one i got during black friday sale). 6Bolt guys be aware you need to trim plastic lip off your lower timing cover for it to fit. On 2G it still touches the cover slightly but i left it as is and it works.
It doesn't actually take long to remove the drive shaft completely, a lot easier to do u-joints in a vice or press...I own a Dodge, done plenty of them in my time lol.
I replaced my yolk once for the same reason. Now whenever I pull the engine, I just leave the t-case on the driveshaft sitting together on the floor.
As soon as I pull my tcase off I coat the yoke surface in white grease for exactly this reason. I do it with all surfaces that might need it (axles, yoke, etc.).
Nice work Alex! Yeah super clean for sure! Did you run into issue with crank pulley bolts not long enough? I was hearing that some found it was corrected.
Everything is always so clean in your working pics! Well done
Thank you sir! Keeping things clean is one of the important keys to DSM success. I learned that from members on this board.
Originally Posted by Jeremy Gilbert
Weird.. I never had to trim anything on mine.
When i opened the box the first thing i saw is this:
and then i google it and got to here: and saw this:
Originally Posted by DSM TUNERS
Those were the same marks I had on my Ati damper. On the grey colored timing belt cover you definitely have to trim down the ring. My 2g is a 6 bolt by the way with the 1g grey cover. I had to trim it. The black timing belt cover does not have that ring and I believe does not need to be trimmed.
black = 2g cover I believe grey = 1g cover or the other way around can't remember.
Originally Posted by Jason Drew
It doesn't actually take long to remove the drive shaft completely, a lot easier to do u-joints in a vice or press...
I have defiantly thought of that but went the other route of removing transfer case and keeping driveshaft in place. If i had more clearance under the chassis than i would just removed the driveshaft.
Originally Posted by Jason Drew
Now whenever I pull the engine, I just leave the t-case on the driveshaft sitting together on the floor.
Originally Posted by Salomon Ponte
As soon as I pull my tcase off I coat the yoke surface in white grease for exactly this reason. I do it with all surfaces that might need it (axles, yoke, etc.).
^ Good calls on that. I'll keep that in check for next time
Originally Posted by Bryan Lawrence
Did you run into issue with crank pulley bolts not long enough? I was hearing that some found it was corrected.
Good thing you brought that up because bolts can defiantly be an issue.
Here are the OEM bolt you dont want to run: and here the proper longer bolts:
I didn't know about the bolt until pulley was installed. So i went and checked my pics and confirmed i used the proper bolts. I also went back and checked my invoice and confirmed that ExtremePSI sent me the longer bolts even tho i ordered stock OEM bolts ... which is really good. Longer bolts worked well with stock pulley so i didnt even notice the difference.
Did you run into issue with crank pulley bolts not long enough? I was hearing that some found it was corrected.
Originally Posted by Alex Akachinskiy
Here are the OEM bolt you dont want to run:
Just want to clarify things here. Fluidampr indeed revised their design, and their new harmonic balancers should work perfectly with the OEM bolts. Unfortunately things like this are one of those parts that can easily sit on a shelf for a few years, so it sounds like you got one of the old versions, Alex.
The reason I bring this up is that when I bought my Fluidampr, I got the longer bolts with it and, being the idiot I can often be, installed it without checking. A couple days later, my balancer seemed loose, so I tightened the bolts. This caused my crank sprocket to fracture. The longer bolts, if used with a revised balancer, do not have enough threads on them, and the shoulder will poke out past the balancer, preventing you from being able to fully tighten them down.
Long story short: Some Fluidamprs have a thicker-than-OEM hub, some do not. Don't repeat my stupidity; check before installing.
Did you run into issue with crank pulley bolts not long enough? I was hearing that some found it was corrected.
Originally Posted by Alex Akachinskiy
Here are the OEM bolt you dont want to run:
Just want to clarify things here. Fluidampr indeed revised their design, and their new harmonic balancers should work perfectly with the OEM bolts. Unfortunately things like this are one of those parts that can easily sit on a shelf for a few years, so it sounds like you got one of the old versions, Alex.
The reason I bring this up is that when I bought my Fluidampr, I got the longer bolts with it and, being the idiot I can often be, installed it without checking. A couple days later, my balancer seemed loose, so I tightened the bolts. This caused my crank sprocket to fracture. The longer bolts, if used with a revised balancer, do not have enough threads on them, and the shoulder will poke out past the balancer, preventing you from being able to fully tighten them down.
Long story short: Some Fluidamprs have a thicker-than-OEM hub, some do not. Don't repeat my stupidity; check before installing.
Intresting but same longer bolts worked fine with oem pulley.
Here is closer view of fluidamp pulley
^ can anyone confirm if above is old or new design please let me know.
And you're usually one to do things the easy way... I initially tried to swap the yoke under the car and it resulted in nothing more then swearing and crushed knuckles... Removing the whole thing also showed me that my lobro joint boot was badly damaged. Damn those things are pricy.....
And you're usually one to do things the easy way... I initially tried to swap the yoke under the car and it resulted in nothing more then swearing and crushed knuckles... Removing the whole thing also showed me that my lobro joint boot was badly damaged. Damn those things are pricy.....
I knew what I was up-to since i rebuild my entire drive shaft few years back. As Jeremy pointed out, "it gets much easier with a bit of practice", with the right tools the u-joint came off without much of a fight. Plus all my u-joint caps and C-clips are still fresh and only few years old
The time has come to say " good bye " to good old favorite Mobil One 10w30. I started worrying that mobil one was not protecting my ACL bearings due to low zinc/phos contents and maxed-out EVO 3 16g.
Going first with 10w30 but will toy with 20w50 next. I may also drop synthetic, will see.
After all work was done, both of my Mitsus were admiring the view outside
Manny, I am 99.99% sure you spun a bearing due to a lean condition. Bearings just don't fail. If there was something wrong with a bearing it would show up on the first start of a new motor. The shock caused by knock/detonation acts in the opposite direction the rod is travelling. Guess what is the weakest/softest link that is going to take that shock? The bearing.
It happens to a lot of motors that aren't dialed in right. Simple.
I don't bother with synthetic either, I run the VR1 but the cheap dino variety which can be had for $3-5 a qt. It is one of the oils recommended by FP for their large journal bearing turbos.
I think its a waste of $$$ in a DSM. Regular Castrol 10w40 works for me.
The cost between VR1 synthetic vs conventional is double. Roughly 60$ vs 30$ per 6 pack of quart bottles. It makes more sense, financially, to use non-synthetic.
Originally Posted by Jason Drew
I don't bother with synthetic either, I run the VR1 but the cheap dino variety which can be had for $3-5 a qt. It is one of the oils recommended by FP for their large journal bearing turbos.
I like the advantages of the synthetic plus my engine (knock on wood) does not leak after rebuild. But i am open to an idea to use conventional in 4G63 if there is an advantage.
I don't feel the nearly 30 year old design of the 4G63, with much wider tolerances than today's modern engines will reap any benefits of a synthetic oil vs a quality conventional.
Above all, regular changes are the most important part.
Either will work but I'm saying you won't see any disadvantages to the conventional.
I don't feel the nearly 30 year old design of the 4G63, with much wider tolerances than today's modern engines will reap any benefits of a synthetic oil vs a quality conventional.
Above all, regular changes are the most important part.
Either will work but I'm saying you won't see any disadvantages to the conventional.
It's time to ditch the cat, my car smells like corn anyway haha
On a somewhat related note, does the E85 in Cali have lead in it? I've noticed in Michigan that a number of the E85 pumps note that they have lead in the fuel as an 'anti-knock' agent. Didn't even think this was legal anymore?
I know leaded fuels definitely aren't good for O2 sensor life.
True. Leaded fuels are not good for 02 sensors, but they do well at suppressing knock.
I find it hit and miss with each 02 sensor. Some die quicker and some last after seeing race fuel. My current 02 sensor has seen so much leaded race gas over the last 5 years and still runs fine.
On a somewhat related note, does the E85 in Cali have lead in it? I've noticed in Michigan that a number of the E85 pumps note that they have lead in the fuel as an 'anti-knock' agent. Didn't even think this was legal anymore?
I know leaded fuels definitely aren't good for O2 sensor life.
Not much of an update but i finally got my remote entry working again with factory remote. My factory door actuators were seized and couldn't open any of my locks. For this project I used aftermarket door actuators which cost me under 10 dollars shipped from amazon. Usually I purchase OEM parts but Mitsu charges 135+$ per side that also includes entire door lock that i don't need.
Few notes regarding installation: Small hole needs to be drilled on the door to mount aftermarket actuator. Green wire on the actuator goes to blue/black factory wire and blue wire goes to red/blue factory wire. Factory alarm, door lock/unlock button, and remote entry is all working correctly with this mod. I followed write up on dsm tunners to get this done. There are total of 5 wires going to factory actuator, i left other 3 untouched.
I can now use remote to open doors. Still need time to get used to it instead of using the key
Those three wires are your master wires, if you sit in the car and unlock the car from the inside it will unlock the other doors. Because you used slave actuators you won't have that feature anymore. I think that's it though.
Nice work though I almost did this with the corolla but it has cable not the rods so it would have needed some extra parts and was more work than it was worth.
Those three wires are your master wires, if you sit in the car and unlock the car from the inside it will unlock the other doors. Because you used slave actuators you won't have that feature anymore. I think that's it though.
That is what i expected to happen but that seems to be not the case. All of the power lock features work as before, at least all combinations i could come up with. And yes, while in the car pressing the door unlock on the driver door unlocks both sides. Seems like the other 3 wires not really powering the actuators, they most likely used for something else i'm not exactly sure what it is. Could be part of factory alarm system or more. Anyone else that knows feel free to chime in.
I am also doing 2G TB to 1G TB upgrade but I ran out of time to get it done today. Once 1G TB is in i will be doing pulls to compare top end performance to good old evo III 16g.
Once everything is ready to go i will be using this oil:
I am also doing 2G TB to 1G TB upgrade but I ran out of time to get it done today. Once 1G TB is in i will be doing pulls to compare top end performance to good old evo III 16g.
Make sure to set aside time to port the throttlebody opening on 2g intake manifold, if you haven't planned on it already.
The car looks great btw, and you opted with some tasteful modifications
Swap over the ISC from the 2g tb to the 1g, the black ones are not likely to blow isc drivers if they fail, like the brown ones do.
Can't wait to see some numbers!
^ Sounds good. I will most likely need to upgrade my RTM 95lb injectors and Walbro 255HP before i can max out this turbo. On E85 i was nearing 85% duty cycles on 24psi near red line.
Originally Posted by Bryan Lawrence
How come you went thicker with the conventional, I would assume you would do the opposite?
^Forced Performance and few of us here are using this oil without issues. I do worry about oil pressure because i deleted BS so i'll be keeping close eye on that. BTW thicker oil should help in 30-40 degree summer weather in LA.
Originally Posted by Charles Kisielewski
Originally Posted by Alex Akachinskiy
I am also doing 2G TB to 1G TB upgrade but I ran out of time to get it done today. Once 1G TB is in i will be doing pulls to compare top end performance to good old evo III 16g.
Make sure to set aside time to port the throttlebody opening on 2g intake manifold, if you haven't planned on it already.
The car looks great btw, and you opted with some tasteful modifications
Thanks. Jason D. ported and powdercoated my IM so it's all ready to go for 1G TB
^ Sounds good. I will most likely need to upgrade my RTM 95lb injectors and Walbro 255HP before i can max out this turbo. On E85 i was nearing 85% duty cycles on 24psi near red line.
Most certainly, a lot of tuners don't advise running above 80-85%.
^ Sounds good. I will most likely need to upgrade my RTM 95lb injectors and Walbro 255HP before i can max out this turbo. On E85 i was nearing 85% duty cycles on 24psi near red line.
Most certainly, a lot of tuners don't advise running above 80-85%.
I can lower duty cycles by mixing more gasoline. E40 or 40% ethanol seems like a good spot for zero knock but slightly less timing of course.
Originally Posted by Bryan Lawrence
Are you still running water lines to the TB?
I know you guys delete water lines but i plan on keeping them. Are they really that much big of a deal?
My issue was that the wax in the TB was messed up and so was the seal. If even a drop of water get's on your ISC it's toast and I had to learn that the hard way, so I didn't want to have to worry about that anymore. It's really only for until the car warms up and I didn't notice a difference after closing mine anyways.
How come you went thicker with the conventional, I would assume you would do the opposite?
^Forced Performance and few of us here are using this oil without issues. I do worry about oil pressure because i deleted BS so i'll be keeping close eye on that. BTW thicker oil should help in 30-40 degree summer weather in LA.
well she didn't like 20w50. Oil pressure on freeway spiked higher compared to 10w30. At 4000 RPM i saw it almost exceeding the norms according to stock oil pressure gauge. On 10w30 the highest it went was about 3 quarters within norm space. My OFH is ported but spring pressure is stock. I will be going back to 10w30 later tonight or tomorrow.
Ah ok, well interesting experiment. You should add a oil filter gauge so you can get some perspective.
Having proper oil pressure gauge is the way to go but i really don't want another gauge just for oil pressure. If oil system works correctly than i don't think it needs other than factory gauge. I would consider fuel pressure over oil pressure gauge because that proven to cause more headaches to me in the past than oil.
Ah fair enough, 1g oil pressure gauge is notoriously incorrect so it would be a toss up for me, preferably just want to set it up so I am logging both, don't really need gauges for either.
Also are you planning to stay conventional or back to synthetic too?
How come you went thicker with the conventional, I would assume you would do the opposite?
^Forced Performance and few of us here are using this oil without issues. I do worry about oil pressure because i deleted BS so i'll be keeping close eye on that. BTW thicker oil should help in 30-40 degree summer weather in LA.
well she didn't like 20w50. Oil pressure on freeway spiked higher compared to 10w30. At 4000 RPM i saw it almost exceeding the norms according to stock oil pressure gauge. On 10w30 the highest it went was about 3 quarters within norm space. My OFH is ported but spring pressure is stock. I will be going back to 10w30 later tonight or tomorrow.
Here is oil pressure comparison to 10w30 vr1 synthetic.
Well my weekend ended with a blown FP 68HTA. It's not such a bad news after i feared that I blown my engine. The car start blowing a lot of blue smoke.
I really enjoy driving my DSMs on cool California nights and do occasional 25-27psi pulls on freeway. Last night it was one of those drives but ended with a smell of burned oil in cabin and cloud of blue smoke out of exhaust. This morning i took her apparts and here is what i found:
^ notice the scratches on housing ? Lots of shaft play in all directions.
I installed this turbo in May and put about 3-4k miles so far. Email was sent to FP support with pics from above. I will keep everyone posted with the progress.
I got email back from the sales guy at FP (the one who sold me turbo). He said i need to ship it back with hot side attached and also include oil feed line. I emailed back asking for confirmation on why hot side needs to be included. (I really don't want to remove hot side and replace gaskets and run into risks of breaking turbo/o2 housing bolts. I could be wrong, but including hot side should be optional. I understand about possibility of more damages during shipping but that can be addressed with proper packaging.
Good question. Whatever damage the hot side would have received, would be reflected on the wheel. I had a similar issue with my 35r, dealt with Garrett, ended up buying a new CHRA for roughly $600 CDN after shipping.
Good question. Whatever damage the hot side would have received, would be reflected on the wheel. I had a similar issue with my 35r, dealt with Garrett, ended up buying a new CHRA for roughly $600 CDN after shipping.
Small update, hot side removed and bolted back to cold side. Complete turbo shipped to FP and should arrive this Friday
The DSM journey continue and enters new chapter in the book, the cabin carpet
The stocker 20+ years old carpet had to go. I first considered getting it cleaned but was not making any progress in that direction. So i did what Terry S did and ordered carpet replacement from stock interiors dot com.
The installation was in plain words PITA but with time and patience i managed to get it done. If you need your carpet replaced, you can order yours and do what i did. Here are few pics:
Gents I think most of your know the story of my stock 7 bolt (fresh rebuilt) which ended it's life on April 30th 11:37AM 2018. Few notes about motor that blew: - Balance shaft delete - New OEM pistons and rings - OEM 4 Layer headgasket - L19 Headstuds torqued to 90lbs
Here are few pics of damages to bring everyone up-to speed:
She ended with bang going uphill in 4th gear (full boost) followed by the moment of silence. This motor was running E85 with fairly aggressive timing, zero knock. The excess amount of torque most likely contributed to stock rod failure. However, this motor held pretty good for almost 3 years and kept me smiling in boost.
The journey is not yet over with my red Talon. Some of you may remember my 2nd DSM the 1999 Spyder which ended as parts car. The motor from my Spyder is revised 7bolt and it has been sitting in storage for 6 years until it's day. Here is that motor today:
Motor has been taken to my local machine shop, same shop that rebuilt my stock 7 bolt. My goal with this motor is to built it strong and be capable of 600-700 crank HP reving to 8500-8700 So far i'm leaning towards the following parts (bottom end only). We'll discuss head shortly after. - Balance shaft delete - Wiseco forget pistons 9.0:1 C.R - Manley Performance H-Beam Steel Connecting Rods (ARP 2000 bolts) - ACL Race "Tri-Metal" bearings - Reuse L19 head studs - Reuse OEM main bolts - stock crank
I'm open to suggestions for bottom end. Feel free to share your opinion and suggestions Thank you
I could use HD Wiseco pistons for a little more but they're available only at 8.5:1 C.R or 10.0:1 C.R. Considering the rods i have and my power goal, should i go with Standard Forged Wiseco pistons 9.0:1C.R ...............OR ............. WISECO EXTREME DUTY "HD" 8.5:1 C.R https://www.extremepsi.com/store/product.php?productid=21469
What do u guys thing? i don't want to learn i made mistakes after motor has been put together I trust your input more than anyone else outside of this board
I believe If I am not mistake the 2618, a low-silicone aluminum Pistons expand more during engine warm up so piston slap till she is warm but they can take more abuse. I would go with the 4032 alloy as it is stiffer and has less thermal conductivity and expansion. It has been a while since I have assembled an engine but I know for a fact I would do a little research before buying the pistons they typically come in 2 different alloys one expands more then the other so the tolerances have to be different for them.
And remember to have the engine block examined before purchases because there is probably a restocking fee if you don't get the right size pistons. .20 over .40 over .60 over
If you want to spend the money would go with Manley's I beam or other similar rod if you want to build it once to last at that power level. I know a few guys running the Oliver and Pauter rods, they're pricey but they're strong as hell.
I would stick with either a 8.5 or 9.0 CR piston, in case you ever move away from E85, 10.0 is not going to be too happy on 91-93 octane.
And remember to have the engine block examined before purchases because there is probably a restocking fee if you don't get the right size pistons. .20 over .40 over .60 over
Thanks Kent, i learned that on my first engine build I no longer buy pistons/rings and bearings until l hear back from my machine shop
Originally Posted by kent Hennigar
I was just about to say get I beams. If you start messing around in the 700 + WHP area.
^ Thats above my goal but having extra headroom is always a plus
Originally Posted by Jason Drew
If you want to spend the money would go with Manley's I beam or other similar rod if you want to build it once to last at that power level. I know a few guys running the Oliver and Pauter rods, they're pricey but they're strong as hell.
^They're sure are expensive, double!. If i go that route than i will defiantly need Wiseco HD pistons. Should be a really nice combo to max out 7bolt crank/block but pricey.
Originally Posted by Jason Drew
I would stick with either a 8.5 or 9.0 CR piston, in case you ever move away from E85, 10.0 is not going to be too happy on 91-93 octane.
^ i was leaning towards 10.0:1 but since i'm flex fuel 9.0:1 or 8.5:1 will be my choice.
Originally Posted by Bryan Lawrence
I would take higher CR personally assuming you want a mean street machine, although not sure how big a difference that makes. I had a spreadsheet with some info on building, let me see if I can find it tonight
I think i've seen it when i did global search but feel free to share it once u find it. 10.0:1 could cause headaches with knock even on e85. I hate knock! ... especially in middle of pull/race and that check engine light comes up. There're also reports of knock between shifts on 10.0:1 even on e85
Originally Posted by kent Hennigar
I would also go ARP every thing
^ I learned from this board that ARP is not always better than OEM. Only few of their products with one of them L19 headstuds beats OEM
Just to wrap things up, i feel i have a good combo for my goal around 650-700 crank hp - Wiseco Standard forget pistons 9.0:1 C.R - Manley Performance H-Beam Steel Connecting Rods (ARP 2000 bolts)
But if i want absolute max power(700+) it would be: -Manley I-BEAM STEEL connecting rods -WISECO Extreme Duty "HD" 8.5:1 C.R
I think i've seen it when i did global search but feel free to share it once u find it. 10.0:1 could cause headaches with knock even on e85. I hate knock! ... especially in middle of pull/race and that check engine light comes up. There're also reports of knock between shifts on 10.0:1 even on e85
I learned from this board that ARP is not always better than OEM. Only few of their products with one of them L19 headstuds beats OEM
Just to wrap things up, i feel i have a good combo for my goal around 650-700 crank hp - Wiseco Standard forget pistons 9.0:1 C.R - Manley Performance H-Beam Steel Connecting Rods (ARP 2000 bolts)
That's super interesting, I see Jason comment too about pump gas and 10:1. So 9:1 seems like a great option for good torque but still tunable.
That's for sure!! Plenty of issues with their exhaust hardware.
Good call, that would be the way I would be going! As a side note, those are the pistons in my block and probably the same rods (though shandon only mentions Manley Rods) and this was conservative at 650 with gt35r
Alex I am confident all of their heads stud are stronger then OEM.
But if the OEM main bolts are better do you have a link or some more information that proves they have more tensile strength then the ARP mains?
I do not but it's based on real practical knowledge from this board. It's been proven that regular arp head studs don't offer any strength advantages over oem head bolts. I dont know about main bolts but i haven't heard of engine failure because of oem bolts
The oem 6 bolt head bolts are quite strong, not much of an upgrade going to the ARP 2000 studs. The 7 bolt are a different story, they are smaller and a different type of bolt.
Rod and mains I would definitely consider ARP hardware for a high HP build. It's well known a lot of 7 bolt rod failures stem from the oem rod bolts stretching.
One place I do not use ARP is in the exhaust, while they are strong, the material they are made of ends up galling very easily and quite often destroying threaded holes. The SS studs for the head to exhaust manifold have a bad tenancy to loosen, so I stick with OEM here as well.
I'd say the piston does its job and it's not their fault if you have pre-ignition due to another failure or error.
^Thanks Rob. I will look into that.
Originally Posted by Jason Drew
Rod and mains I would definitely consider ARP hardware for a high HP build. It's well known a lot of 7 bolt rod failures stem from the oem rod bolts stretching. l.
So my new rods will come included with arp 2000 hardware. Now what about OEM main bolts ? How simple of a job to upgrade to ARP main hardware? Is this something my machine shop could do and possibly screw up? any bore alignment required ?
Just to keep everyone in the loop on the progress. Here is the latest list of upgrades for my 99 motor
Block: - Mahle Pistons forged Alloy: 4032 with 9.0:1 compression ratio - Manley H-Beam steel connecting rods - King XP Tri-Metal Racing (main/rods) bearings - Fel-Pro PermaTorque MLS Head Gasket - ARP Main Stud Kit (PENDING, prefer to use OEM bolts if they can hold upto 600hp)
Head: - GSC stage 2 cams - re-use Brian Crower Valve Spring & Titanium Retainers - re-use ARP L19 headstuds torqued to 90lbs
^That's a good read...now i'm even more split between the two haha
So in the nut shell, 2618 Race piston is aprx 15% stronger that 4032 and if anodized could last as long as 4032(which is what Rob C stated earlier) The only remaining disadvantage is heat expansion due to low silicone in 2618 which apparently cause piston to slap against cylinder wall on cold starts until normal engine operation temperature is reached. Talking to JD, he does not even hear piston slap on cold start. So in real life applications, how big of deal is that?
If clearances are done correctly it can help a lot with piston slap.
Can you elaborate more on that please? Are these clearances defined in the specifications sheet included in the pistons box by manufacture. Is this something i can instruct my machine shop to ensure it's done correctly?
Yeah exactly, the clearances are defined in the spec sheet so as long as the machine shop gets them on the tighter side of spec you should have minimal issues with piston slap. You may not be able to completely eliminate it but with the closer clearance you should be able to reduce it, and as you know it will stop as soon as its all warmed up.
Yeah exactly, the clearances are defined in the spec sheet so as long as the machine shop gets them on the tighter side of spec you should have minimal issues with piston slap. You may not be able to completely eliminate it but with the closer clearance you should be able to reduce it, and as you know it will stop as soon as its all warmed up.
It will get pained black and also get fresh set of unpainted freeze plugs
Originally Posted by kent Hennigar
How much money in total are you looking at for your short block assembly ?
I don't actually start with allocating money for my DSM projects. Instead, i set my power goals (600hp/8500rpm) and gradually move towards that goal. If I run short on cash, i stop and wait until cash is available again. In the end i will hopefully end up with the product i want which is a well balanced long block in terms of power to parts ration.
Originally Posted by Bryan Lawrence
Originally Posted by Alex Akachinskiy
Thanks Bryan, Just go a call from machine shop about my 99 block. Block is in good shape and rebuildable. It's time to order parts
Great news!!
I placed my parts order last night. It was very intense as i was still debating between few parts options. Finally, i decided not to use ARP for mains and go with fresh OEM bolts. For pistons i went with stronger 2618 alloy 9.0:1 CR over 4032 alloy .
and here is an update My red Talon is now alive and well. Currently doing break-in (350km/1000km on conventional oil)
Long story short, i blew my stock original 96 7bolt block in April 2018 pushing 30psi on e85. I re-used by spare 99 block (which i saved when i part out my 99 GST Spyder) and now this block + head are fully built and dropped back into my 96 Talon. I used Reza's timing belt method (got it right on the first try) and Jason D helped me spot an oil leak due to missing balance shaft inspection bolt (machine shop left an empty hole)
7B Upgrade highlights
Block: - Forged Wiseco 9.0:1 Pistons & Manley H-Beam Rods - Fel-Pro PermaTorque MLS Head Gasket - King XP Tri-Metal Racing Series Main & Rod Bearing Set for 99 revised block - balance shaft deleted
Head: - GSC stage 2 cams - Brian Crower Valve Spring & Titanium Retainers - ARP L19 headstuds torqued to 100lbs
I picked up my built motor from the shop and drove it home in my daily rx8
On the positive note, we purchased our first home in Cali and i had to tow my Talon to a new garage and then finish her off Here are few pics from that event
Slightly lowered and front lip re-painted. Ready for first engine start
evo 3 5th gear
Here is the motor in action, idling on GSC Stage 2 cams
Nice work man! Great progress!! Congrats on the new crib!
Thanks Bryan
The pics shown above is about 5-6 month of progress. Here are the latest and greatest changes: Since i'm using 99 Spyder 4g63 long block i decided to finally install my 99 white cluster (rare) so it reminds me my Spyder and 99 revised block I took it apart and replaced OEM orange bulbs with clear OEM bulbs to make it brighter. I found few of them were dead which explains why it was harder to read this cluster at night. Millage will be out of sync, project for another day.
Here is the night shot, with clear OEM bulbs it's brighter and easy to read and white film is not that visible at night which i like. During day time it's nice and clear, another likes from me
The more serious issue i ran into was damaged/cracked transfer case. When the rod blew through oil pan, transfer case took a major hit. Here is the closer pic:
I tried buying more time with it by sealing damaged area with RTV sealant (and had re-seal it a few times while while under the car) but it kept on leaking. Nevertheless, i finally received replacement unit from Reza and got it installed same day, no more leaks
Happy to see her back on the road! Looking damn good!
Originally Posted by kent Hennigar
Looking good player
Thank you gents! Last night i was going over my old DSM pics and videos and found something interesting to share. It was recorded at least 8 years ago when my DSM was daily for me. Back in the day i normally did this during any snow storm in GTA Enjoy!
![[Linked Image]](http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk252/universal556/1573625.jpg)
. And that was it....TSi AWD was mine.![[Linked Image]](http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk252/universal556/tsiAwd.jpg)
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. Also I ran network line in case wireless will let me down one day.![[Linked Image]](http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk252/universal556/IMG_2646.jpg)
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...more to come soon![[Linked Image]](http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk252/universal556/IMG_3410.jpg)
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...should be good enough for google and DSM board ![[Linked Image]](http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk252/universal556/DSC00952.jpg)
have you decided what you are going to do with it? 
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It was my stainless fuel line rubbing against the wire on the IM. It was always a ticking bump and finally it blew. I should have used 90-degree hose end coming out of my FR instead of straight end. It was long enough to make contact with the black wire and slowly eating insulation away and causing a short. This could end-up in engine fire. Glad fuse did it's job. ![[Linked Image]](http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk252/universal556/IMG_20130717_233149_zps410d8b7f.jpg)
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I can now use remote to open doors. Still need time to get used to it instead of using the key ![[Linked Image]](http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk252/universal556/dsn/IMG_0050_zpsqodmc9ln.jpg)
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