Quick Spool Valve

Heres a project I been tinkering around with.
It is originally made by a company called sound performance and is highly patent protected....

It will succesfully close one half of a twin scroll housing to divide the a/r for quicker spool. This housing will go from a 50a/r housing to a 1.00 a/r housing at full boost. The turbo I will test it on is that Borg warner turbo I got from the wreckers. After talking to Justin and a few other Turbo Gurus, weve decided that it should be at par with an HX35 7blade. or a borgwarner s256. Both turbos are choked by their bolt on housings.. but suffer from too much lag in their stock t3 housings.

At the moment Im just fabbing up a quick down pipe and setting it up on my mock engine. more pics to come.

Cool idea, although that turbo is MASSIVE

Would be real curious to see the difference in spool up

This is awesome. Good work, man. Can't wait to see it in action.

if it works.. I would be interested in running the dyno at shoot out. I will have a cable on it tgat can open it from drivers seat. That way It can be easily switched open and closed for 2 seperate dyno pulls. Aparently the "real" ones cant handle a 2step launch... I wanna make mine manual controlled for that reason.

I believe I came across this or something similar to it a few years back, didn't give it much thought though. Reading this I couldn't wrap my head around how this would work, then I realized you must be utilizing at twin scroll housing with a open/undivided exhaust manifold. Correct?

Ya I forgot to mention that... it is designed to run a twin scroll houisng on a single scroll open manifold. Its sorta a cheaper alternative to buying a $600+ twinscroll manifold... but some have said he QSV actually got better results. The manifold I will be using is a generic well braced tubular T3 manifold I got in a part out. I have a cast t3 manifold in my shop... but the flapper dosent clear the casted flange port.

I wonder if you could use a micro controller to control the valve with a servo motor. You could control the ramping and manual override however you like.

I dont want to over complicate it. If anything, I would control it using a solinoid and Link. But ya, like a electric exhaust cut out... I could have it open during idle and cruise. and automaticly close under load.

Perhaps "porting" the area for clearance would work(???). Or would to much material need to be removed?

Woah!!! Pretty interesting consept. You could even use a Pneumatic Valve/Solenoid to control the QSV and ECMLink BCS Control to drive it.

Ghislain

I could use the cast manifold.. and port the sh!t out of it.. but it isnt mine... and Id like to know if this works before I start dumping money into this.

Heres the down pipe. It rough, I hate the mig welder.

What mig welder is it and what wire are you using?

its just a cheapy 110v mig from princess auto. it works fine.. I just suck at mig welding. still learning. Im more of a stick welder. Have a 220v Linkin ark welder at my dads shop.

In that case it's probably the wire and the welder. Also better wire does help a bit.

I have tried cheap welders and it was night and day difference, sure technique helps but it won't make your welder any better.

Flux core just sucks in general for thin material, it's a dirty, messy process with lots of heat.

If you ever need some tig welding done, hit me up.

Ya. I would like some Argon or what ever.. but cant aford it lol.. Jay, I didnt wanna pay for the shipping to send my mock motor there and back! But If I make another QSV, I will polly just get you to weld the flappers.

I have 3 or 4 blocks sitting around for mocking up things

Fluxcore sucks ass no matter how good a welder you are. I wouldnt even call it mig welding. But a good wire wheel would make that look much better.

I use the flappy sanding disk to make it all smooth, but Stephen is right gas is the way.
It's on my list

This seems really cool! would be interesting on a road course car where it allowed quicker spool in the corners and then more flow top end in the long straights. If I understand the concept correctly.

Think Max effort... Autocross and drag times combined.

It should provide a quicker spool yes. Unless Jay, were you thinking about setting it so one side is either closed or open, manually controlled so you can set it before the race depending on what kind of race you are doing?

I was thinkjng of a choke like cable to hold it open for 2step. But for the most part.. it will be controlled by a electric boost control via link. I will have it openat full boost. The problem Im haveing now is that the turbo Im setting it up for Normally will hit full boost by 4000rpms on a stock twinscroll housing in a undivided manifold. And any bigger turbo will prolly surge like crap before the valve actully opens. I will see how we it works... then maybe invest on a 7blade hx40 or s259bw.

Cool idea,

You will want it to always open at the same time. Or else your tune will always be out of whack.

And a stepper/servo motor like stated above would be a great idea to get that linear boost.

I wouldn't want it opening at full boost, you'd want it to gradually open. If you didn't, your exhaust flow would be restricted to whatever that half of the flange size is.. 1.5" ?? All the way to full boost..

Thats why Link would control it with a solinoid. The housing in the pic is a 1.a/r which in theory would be a .50 a/r untill it opens. thats like puttinga a stock 7cm housing on a gt30r size turbo in this case. Which will surge real bad. specially since the turbo Im using dosent have any surge pertection.

now the Borg Warner turbos of this size are said to spool as fast as the gt30r with the large housing in a non divided manifold.. so it really wouldnt be worth it. If I had a hx40 or bigger turbo.. it should spool the hx40 faster then the BeP housing and the stock housing with a twinscroll manifold. As long as its tuned to open slowly and matched by the spool rate to avoid surging. Cause your right.. The tiny onesided housing wont flow enough to let the hx40 create its potential 70lbs/in airflow.

I guess if you are using a waste gate to open it there will technically be a gradual open...

I guess you will have to find the sweet spot.

From what I read its alot of seat time getting it right. Interesting thing.. some of the guys running this sorta thing, say they can feel when the torque drops when the valve opens.

Not if he is using a ebc to open, will it not just abruptly open as soon as it hits the ebcs designated boost?

CMIIW but the EBC solenoid works on pulses which allows a greater resolution for controlling boost.

This method would be the ideal solution to controlling a wastegate very accurately.

Any testing yet, or is there car on jackstands?

Actally the turbo wasnt big enough.. I would need bigger then 60lb/m twinscroll t3 turbo to run. If anyone wants to try it. Let me know, Id be willing to work soomething out.

I think Im gonna make a t6 QSV and biuld a v8 gt45 set up later.

Ok so I been running my quick spool valve.

Set up is hx35 in 12cm housing, t3 header.. Custom o2 housing.
O2 housing has a hole in the weld before the 02 sensor.
Wastegate is external and set to 25-27psi.
264/272 hks cams


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[img]http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t438 [img]http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t438/jaystacey/20150919_155724_zpscsgrvatd.jpg[/img] /jaystacey/20150919_155907_zps7ioyclhl.jpg[/img]
Pull with qsv wired open.. So using both turbine scrolls

Try this again.. This is a pull with the qsv wired open.. Using both scrolls.




This is a pull with the QSV wired closed. So Its only using 1 scroll.


Ignore that I didnt make a full 7500rpms.. Im only measuring spool time.

Very interesting. The slope on the RPM line is massively steeper with the enhanced spool, and the increased airflow is also quite substantial. Did you end up using the EBC to open it at a certain boost pressure?

There is definitely grounds to believe the QSV works very well - there is a thread on SupraForums comparing QSV to open turbine, to twin scroll, but I'm not sure it's a trustworthy source since it is the manufacturer's testing. My issue is that it doesn't work on a divided turbo, and I think if you combined the two it would produce the best result. There is a QSV out there for divided manifolds and it's beautiful (see link), but at $732, ouch. I'd love to make my own for 1/4 of the cost.

http://www.dieselperformance.com/index.php/product/index/202P

Mine would do exaclty as that $700 one would do. You could use a twins scroll manifold with mine.. But the point is to avoid the expense of the twinscroll manifold.

Plus. With a twinscroll turbine... It has been proven to spool faster then the equal sized open t3 single scroll turbo... But you loose overall power.

it takes 3.9 seconds to go from 0 boost at 2700rpms... To 24psi at 4176rpms with my qsv closed... And runnning 1 scroll.

It takes 4.7 seconds from 0boost at 2700rpms to 24psi at 4400rpms. With the qsv wired open and just running open twinscroll.

But the valve limits the boost to 24psi. The open scrolls allow it to peak to 27psi and holds it there.
So Im gonna program it to open the valve at 4100rpms.

I can feel it while cruising around.. With the valve closed , I can spool the turbo and blow off the BoV. It feels responsive. But with the valve open.. Running both scrolls. I dont hear anything while cruising.. And its like driving a NA car.

Someone already made one like you describe. http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?742098-Kevin-s-Divided-Manifold-Quick-Spool-Valve

I love the diesel valve I linked, it's a brilliant piece of engineering and quite nice to look at, but that cost...ugh.

The trick to using twin scroll with a spool valve is to run a big turbine housing to offset the lack of flow; you will be in "net positive" territory if you match it properly.

Also, Borg-Warner is using spool valves on twin scroll EFRs starting early next year, so they see something in it too.

Ya.. The qsv is nothing new.. A company called Sound performance biulds and sells them for over 400us. With huge copywrite enforcement...And I believe mine is better designed. MAZDA used in in the rx7 but it didnt work for them.
I think the hx35 8blade is the best to test it out with. We know the 8blade 56mm compressor wheel is good for 52lbs/m in either the bolt on housing.... Or the stock 12cm housing. The goal is to bring the 12cm housing down to a 6cm housing to spool fast. Which is showing some promise, But I have a few ideas to improve the valve. If I can get this thing to hit full spool begore 4000rpms.. Then Ill upgrade the compressor side to a hx40 wheel.

How would you improve it? In terms of its flow characteristics or in terms of the mechanical actuation? Flow-wise I don't know that there's much more that you could do short of further shrinking the low-boost inlet to increase velocity. Or possibly shaping the inlet of the valve to funnel airflow towards the low-boost scroll of the hotside?

The valve dosent close it tight, so it must leak and since the exhaust will flow up the other valute, and thru the valve.. It will create turbulance.i will thiken the center structure so the valve seats better.

So so far Ive got this thing to hit 27psi at 4100rpms, then it sees 29psi at 7500rpms with an airflow of 55.6lbs/m which is more then the average 8blade puts out. Prolly cause the bolt on housing limits the flow to 52lbs/m and the stock twin scroll is too laggy to allow our motors to see the 8blades potential.

LINK is estimatin 489hp right now. With a much better torque curve then the Borg warner with the same set up showing 450hp

Hey Jay out of curiousity have you been able to find a comparison of a fully twin scroll setup and a quick spool setup? From what I am finding the difference shouldn't be very much.

Not bad. I have my setup set at 27psi at the moment too. The hx35 is hitting full boost around the 3600rpm mark with the compounds.
I have an exhaust leak but we aren't too far off. Cool project

Bryan. I dont think Ill ever be able to compare the same set up to a true twinscroll. But in my research, its about the same. In theory the TS is faster spooling then open header but dosent have as much top end power. Results even sho that running the open header to a twinscroll makes more power up top compared to full twin scrolls. This set up should give me the power up top that is lost with Twin scroll and bolt on set ups.

Ive always thought of true twinscroll set ups more for huge turbos that need help spooling but have alot of power up top, that can be sacrificed. Basicly creating a more agressive powerband. Thats sorta what Im doing... But I wont lose the power up top.

Mike.. Your also a 2.4l

Ok I got you.

Found this in my research really digging it.
http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tuning/Quick%20Spool%20Valve%20Test.html

I've been on a Bone stock 2.0 with L19's for the past 2 years


Have you tried opening the valve mid spool yet??

Mike change your sig then.. Lal

yes dear

Bryan, that guy seems to have a bit more tuning to do.. But his boost never stops rising. It just keeps biulding.

Mike.. The only reason to open the valve is when the half scroll becomes a restriction. The Bolt on BEP housing restricts the airflow of a hx35 to around 52lbs/m. The T3 housing allows the 7blade hx35 to hit 60lbs/m.

From what I can see, the closed valve limits the air flow to 51lbs but open, I can reach 56lbs. I would like it to open just before 50lbs/m. But link dosent use airflow to control the EGR solinoid... So I take a rough estimate of say 7000rpms.

While driving around all day.. The valve never opens. I never really have the chance to go above 7000rpms on city streets with 30psi and a Holset. But at the strip.. It will only stay closed to biuld boost in first. With nlts.. IT should stay open the whole time.

I dont really know what it will do at the strip... But just doing a full lauch and run on a back road.. Its way faster then the BW. Much better pull.