CONVERSION!

hey guys just hopeing for a bit of advice. i bought my talon ESi about 5 months ago simply because i didnt think i would find a TSI AWD (the car i wanted) in better shape, i got a pretty good deal on mine, mint condition ext and int, with 98,000 km on it for 5,500$

well long story short, im kickin myself in the ass now ive raced a few talon TSI AWD and it took me a few hours to pick the lower part of my jaw back up off my floor mat. ever since i bought the car i have been searching for the parts to do a conversion, only problem is, and talon youll find at a wreckers will almost never have the turbo, or most of the parts on it.

i found a parts car in toronto thats in pretty good shape with low Km, and ill be transfering everthing over this winter hopefully. my question is that ive heard a couple of talon owners talking about a Converted esi to tsi is faster then the stock tsi, do to the compression ratios of the stock motors, is this true? im not sure now if i should convert my engine, or just replace it with a TSI engine.

and secondly, is it possible to convert a fwd 1g talon to awd??

any help is apprecieated,

Without major expense and trouble u can't convert an FWD to a AWD... converting a NT to a Turbo is more doable. However, it will not be faster than a stock tsi. The reason is that u can't boost the NT engine high enough (maybe 7 to 9 psi, and 9 is pushing it). Mostly everybody on this board will recommend that you sell your car and buy a turbo car (u can pick up an AWD while your at it )

My advice would be that if you really like your car, but feel the need for boost... sell your stock esi engine and buy a JDM. Just hope u get a good one.

Scotty, excellent advice and only on your 7th post....
Tony Vaz has done the most recent turbo conversion to my knowledge.... give him a shout.

Thanks for the advice guys

If you want my advice, go ahead and do it!
Nothing feels better knowing that you just accomplished something that most people won't even consider.
I'm running 9psi of boost (waste gate piped directly to turbo elbow) with a 13g turbo. I had the car datalogged once and it showed knock only in first gear. 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th no knock. I'm planning on going to a 14b soon and cranking up some boost.
I would recommed using a EGT gauge and a oil cooler for your set up. (both of which i don't have ) Because I'm pretty sure once over 9psi you will run into more knock.
At the moment i would say my car is a bit slower then a TSi, but with a EGT for cranking up the the boost and a oil cooler just for some piece of mind, it will soon out run a TSi.
It's allot faster then NT (no sh!t) and once you feel Boost you will never go back.

Hey. I am definatly doing the conversion too. In the summer hopefully. I am looking forward to the challange of something that people say shouldn't be done. Just wondering if anyone who has done it changed the cams also. NT cams are different from turbo cams(manual) NT cams are the same as Autos. Just currious.
I cant wait to feel the BOOST!!

Matt

guys guys the nt head is going to work on turbo engine because i'm running full turbo engine with nt head so just calm down also the cams are diferent from nt and turbo...

Thanks

I have a 93 NT which I've been thinking of converting every day since I bought it August 1, 2001. Sounds like there will be a few of us doing the conversion in the next few months. Lets make sure we all keep in touch and notify each other of any problems when they arise.

I'm hoping to do the 1/4 mile before the conversion in the spring, then do the conversion and test the 1/4 again. Should be interesting to see the difference. I've never actually riden in a Tsi before, so not knowing the feeling, is probably keeping me happy with my NTs power.

Talk to you all soon, and post here when you guys start the conversion.

Cheers.

Heyy Guys Before you hit the 1/4 mile get turbo tranny,flywheel and clucht or else its going to happen same thing as TONY VAZ the cluch is gonna go apart....

Ask Him he knows Better what to do

I'm Running all Turbo in my 90 NT...

I guess the NT stuff wont hold up to well?? What about a performance NT clutch?? I need a new one in the spring but if I am going to have to get a tranny/flywheel/clutch from a turbo that just uped the price quite a bit.
What are the going prices for these parts??

Thanks
Matt

Guys,
if you are going to swap do it right. I did the complete swap. Mind you it wasnt in a Talon but in a 92 Hyundai Sonata for some of you that dont know.

Anyway,
my car had exact same in there from factory as u N/A guys. My car came with the N/A Talon engine from the factory so the swap for me was the same as it would be for you N/A guys.

Engine(has manifold w/turbo) tranny can be had for around $2000 roughly.
You will need a turbo ECU,turbo MAF,turbo injectors(comes with engine usually) and one of the important things u will need is the injector resistor located on the firewall of a turbo talon/laser. You will need to get that and splice the wires into the injectors cause turbo and non turbo injectors run on diff impedance(sp)turbo is low and N/A is high impedance(sp).

If you dont want to swap the turbo engine and tranny then the above parts can be still used on the N/A motor. The turbo ECU will be a direct plug in to the stock harness just like it was for in the Sonata even.

Matt,
performance clutch will run you roughly 300 U.S bux for a N/A,its around 380-400 U.S for the TSi's..

[ December 24, 2001: Message edited by: Thomas Toth ]

I was in a NT converted to turbo with a 16G running 17psi! I was under the impression this is the safe limit..not only 9 pounds!

jeff did you have oil cooler if you didnt i dont think you could push that much because i fried my pistons with 13 psi...

Dino,

Jeff is talking about a 1990 TSI AWD that had a NA engine put in when the turbo engine went on it.
So it does have an oil cooler and everything is from the TSI AWD but the NA engine.

Man that thing must have been a DOG extra 300lbs and all that drivetrain loss powered ny an NT..ouch

Hey Thomas I've got a 91NT 1.8 as well as my 90TSI
I want to build the #@%# out of the 91NT and neeed a wireing harnes for the 2.0L conversion can I use a NT 2.0 harnes or should I just find a TSI harnes and do you have any ideas were to get one? Anybody got one?

Brett

Vince,
NA engine but still was turbocharged.


Brett,

the 2.0 harness will work,everything will plug in directly.It was a direct plug and play with my car even the ecu. The 1.8 might even work it should be the same. Get a turbo ecu and try pluging in ur harness it might just work. Then all u have to do is run a wire from the knock sensor and do the injector resistor wiring to the turbo injectors.

Thanks I'll try That, I've got high impedance 550's so don't need resistor pack

Brett

I have Galant and some passion for turbo. Nevertheless it has two more doors and damn more comfort and not much heavier!(the Sonata fellow knows what I mean)

But Thomas:
As I have seen the intake plug for Galant/NA has 6 plugs but Turbo's 8 wires, am I right?

But other than that what about the fuel pump?

did you change your transmission, what about the clutch?

and exhaust?

and are you sure the ECU is not the same with just some DIP switch or resistor different inside, some jumper of some sort?


[but I bet beating a typeR or prelude with a four door sedan is hell more fun let alone mustang or vette, oh yes]

[ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: Amin Ahmadi ]

Amin,

i am running a N/A MAF still no problem. I thought there was only one extra wire on the turbos but i could be wrong. I think the extra wire is for barametric pressure i belive which is not needed. I remember this cause the guy who helped me do this on my car(Mike Hamilton) was the one who told me. He him self have swapped turbo components on to his old N/A car before. He was still running N/A but had turbo ecu,injectors etc etc.This guy is good with this stuff.

The fuel pump i have the stock one in the tank still and i have an aftermarket bosch inline to help with the rest of the fuel needs along with some 550 cc injectors.

Transmission is alsoa FWD turbo talon which also wasa direct fit into my car. The clucth i used was an AWD Talon pressure plate with a custom 6 puck clutch plate.

Exhaust i had all custom made , 3" from turbo all the way back

I dont know about the ecu being the same cause the turbo ecu im sure must be diff so it can read boost and the fuel settings and such that go on inside are different.

I have beat many of Type R's hehe and its so much fun. Most fun i have is with Mustang and Camaro owners. Although some of those Camaro guys are much faster then Mustangs stock and mildly modded but its still clasis seeing their faces after when they see what car just handed them their ass. "What the hell you got in that thing buddy?" I smirk and say its a Hyundai

Wow?

You put a Talon transmission in, Talon has stock 16" wheels+205/55 which makes the wheels' diameter around 63cm. Where as Hyundai's shouldn't be more than 15"+195/60(am I right?) making the radious about an inch less. Your final gear ratio is changed (more torque!!! ) but your speedometer should be off quite a bit?? :rolleyes:

I don't know much about the size of injectors but aren't they part of the "new" turbo engine?

Oh BTW isn't possible to change the injector pin or nozzle or whatever it is?
because old injector systems like the one used in 70's Buicks and Blazers you can just chage the nozzle

I guess there is a small diff but not much. My car stock came with 185 70 14 tires and an optinal 195 60 15. I am running 225 45 17 tires and rims on my car now and at a 100 km/h in 5th gear im reving 2750-2800 rpm which is what a FWD turbo talon does.The speedo is kinda close i belive but i dont really care if its off a bit.

If you buy a used JDM or USD turbo engine the injectors will be most likely on it. I dont think the tips alone can be changed like the old american cars. Must change the whole injector it self. I changed the stock 450cc to 550 cc injectors.

I just wanna see who wants to mess with me if I install turbo!
driving 100 my RPM is at 3300. my top end speed might not be high but the torque should be nice!

anyways the turbo is a dream for the time being

maybe I am better off upgrade the fast and cheap way to gain some couple of hundred HP's!! get a VTEC badge and stick it on the car's ass
Or Powered by Honda, how about "Street Racing Power Boys Very Fast Very Good"(read rice power) on the front windshield. That's gotta be 300 HP in itself!

Vtec and Type R badges give Hondas at least 75 hp, and those blue glowing windshield nozles another 10 each. The we heavent gotten into the stickers,under car neons and those damn altezza lights.

Don't forget about 4WS stickers Tom!

I'll run you one day with my Lude!

Dino, your buddy is the drives the yellow probe right? I see your car, and his car all the time when i'm on lunch (I go to Bishop Ryan). Have you seen the guy with the laser with rims thats always at the avendale plaza, i can't remember if its white or a light greenyblue. Just wonderin.

Vince ,

you mean ur SISTERS lude ! hahahha back at ya

I recently damaged my suspension on my 90 laser fwd turbo.
I am willing to sell the drivetrain.
-Ported and polished head
-3 angle valve job
-mildly modded 14b
-2.5 inch exhaust turbo back (no cat, so get your test done before swapping exhausts)

*Engine,tranny,ecu,exhaust,intake(MAF) together.
Nice and tidy.Takes the grief out of the swapping process.
If interested call Rob at 416-383-1207

Not yet little grasshopper, it's still mine!

You can only use the NT Mass Air Sensor with some kind of Fuel management system.
I myself went the cheap root and got myself a turbo MAS.
Also i never bothered hooking up the extra wire and the car runs fine.Maybe in the summer time i will.

Jeff I'm running 8-9 psi of boost because I really don't know how high i can go.
I don't have a EGT gauge to monitor combustion temps.

with the engine swap can u still use the stock n/t tranny? do i really need the turbo mas

brennan it kinda sounds like you jumped into this conversion without much knowledge of what you are doing.

the post made by tony vaz, (right before your post) says that you can only use the non turbo MAS with some sort of fuel management system......so in regards to your question, no you dont really need the MAs from a turbo engine.
as for the NT tranny, it should be fine. i havent heard anything about the tannys being any diffrent. but if you are planning on running high boost on your car i would deffenatly reccomnd upgrading the stock clutch to say the act 2100 or the act2500.

P.S. brennan, are you installing a turbo engine into your car? or are you installing a turbo to your NT engine? and if you are installing a turbo engine, have you done any compression tests to make sure all this work is even going to be worth it?

[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: Shawn Petrie ]

hey ive been doin a lot of research ive just never heard of having to change the MAS any way im putting the turbo engine in my car im getting it from magnus motor sports and he says its all tested and it has a 90 day gauruntee so when i get it i will do some more tests

[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: Brennan Clouatre ]

[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: Brennan Clouatre ]

Yes you can use the NT tranny BUT, you must use the NT flywheel and NT clutch.
Turbo clucthes and flywheels are bigger and require more room in the transmison bellhousing.
So, if you ever want to upgrade to a Turbo clutch you will require a Turbo tranny, Turbo flywheel, and possibly a Turbo starter.