Im turboing my 97 ESi

Well, not me exactly, but I need someone too. Im sick and tired of a non-turbo. And ya ya, I've heard it, "sell the ESi and buy a TSi". Well, it'd be nice if someone wants to buy my car, but i've put well over 10 grand into the thing. So, I've decided , i want to SERIOUSLY turbo the damn thing.

As for parts, I've been looking at Hahn Race Craft turbosystems, and I dont have the funds for that. I know a few people here have turbo'ed their n/t's for cheap, its a matter of finding parts.

Well, would someone be kind enough, if they have the time to list what exactly I would need? I honestly can't stand hearing you guys talk about boost, and walking all over cars, etc. I KNOW i will not run as much boost as a stock TSi, but that doens't matter to me, ANYTHING is better then the p.o.s 420a I have. Smack a turbo on, and I'll be laughing. I'd love a 4G63, and unless someone plans on buying my car sometime soon, im never going to have one.

Turboing a 2g cheap is not as easy as turboing a 1g cheap...parts are hard to find...

All the guys that you hear about on this Board that turbo their NT's are all 1Gers. The 1G turbo and the 1G NT both used the 4G63 engine. They're, of course, not the same engine, but they probably share as many similarities as they do differences. The point being, that turboing a 1G NT from used TSi parts is definitely do-able.

The same is definitely not true of the 2G. The turbo uses the 4G63 and the NT the 420A. Totally different engines. I dont't think a single bolt is interchangeable. Is it still possible to turbo a 2G NT? Of course. But you can't use the same route as the 1Gers. You'll have to go with an aftermarket system, or else fabricate the whole thing.

peter i could not have agreed with you any more. bought the NT because i got a great deal, but now i am not to pleased in my purchase. i put too much money into this car, and am not willing to sell it because of that very reason. Bart i have a 1g, and i am sick and tired of hearing look at the search because to be honest with you, i barely know sh!t about an engine! now you wanna talk body, mine is done up to the tits! so if you can also help me Peter or Bart that would be greatl;y apreciated. Bart if you could get all the parts i pay you to do the work and everything!

josh

for all practical purposes forget the 4g63

if you want to really keep the car then get a kit for you rcar, a complete kit from many vendors out there.

I am willing to help there

Amin

Well, whats the least expensive kit out there? I know and think most of the kits are in American Funds. I think I found a Stage 1 Hahn R.C kit for 2195$ somewhere.

If that was in canadian funds, damn I'd have it in a second, but being the University student that I am, 3500$ - 4000$ is outta my budget.

But then I always think to myself, well these kits list EVERYTHING on their websites, all the parts that come with it. Why don't I just duplicate everything, in used parts etc. and go from there. I'm assuming it'd be ALOT cheaper then ordering pure namebrand kits.

All I dream about each and every day is boost, to be honest. I found a good deal on my 97 Esi, ended dropping 12000$ into it in a year, and have no idea if I could get half of what i paid and put into it. I'd love to buy a 98 TSi one day, and I think I will one day, if it means working my ass off everyday of my life, lol.

It can be done as a custom jobbie for relatively cheap...if you do the majority of the work yourself.

This is not for everyone though. You must have access to a place to work on it constantly. You must have knowledge of what you are doing. You must understand how a turbcharged system actually works. You have to be able to design and fabricate tubing and piping. Or design it and pay an exhaust shop to do it. Be prepared for huge headaches and setbacks. It's not as simple as finding parts and throwing them on. FABRICATION and ADAPTATION if you're going custom with unknown used parts. If you're not used to stripping down your car and if you don't have access to workspace, it's not going to happen. If you don't understand what it takes to turbo a vehicle, than this is not for you.

Whereas if you buy a kit, you're laughing, plug and play. You pay more, you also have a proven set up that works and you don't have to do any oh teh dirty work.

Or...you can pay a local shop to do a custom jobby for you. It will cost the same as a Kit.

Personally, I would go custom and locate parts myself, do most of what I can myslef. What I can't do, I send out and than install it myslef. Labour costs are what will kill you if you go to a shop.

You'd be hard pressed to find someone on the board to do this for you without some bug dollars. It's not as easy as... "I want a turbo kit, I'll find parts, you install it."

It takes time and effort, not to mention car downtime. Then once it's up and running, with the custom set up, you have to tune it and hope you did everything right. If you did it alright, you end up with a custom set up for noticeably cheaper than a pre fab kit, you also are responsible for anything that goes wrong with your set up. If you missed something vital ad you ahve to go all the way back and fix or add or modify. If this is not you...than buy a ready made kit. It's worth it.

This is what happens when people spend all their money on cosmetics and don't think about speed to back it up. Nothing worng with it, just learn that for your next car, think about whgat you want to accomplish with it before you put a cent into it. Some are into looks, soe are into go...you can't have an extreme both without a much higher budget. Some go, some show is anice compromise.

Think about it. You have 12 into your car. If you split that into half you could have an AWESOME package.

$6000 gets you full suspension set up complete with sway bars and strut bars (2000 at most). New paint, (decent job, say about $1500) Now you got AT LEAST 2500 to spend still on looks. Set of used 17's and rubber, (1000 give or take.) $1500 left for any other body mods, ie light's lips, kit's. That would be tacked onto the price of paint job provided you did it all at the same time. You still probably have money to spare on stereo gear and all that stuff.

Now...the other $6000, any mechanical repairs needed. (provided that you don't need a full motor and tranny overhaul) Full Pre fab turbo kit plus all options, Ie Fuel system, exhasut and FMIC. More upgrades to be had always.

Or you could go the self fab route with that money and have an even FASTER car for cheaper.

You would have a SICK RIDE to enjoy.

Think about this stuff before you make rash decisions with that amount of money. Plan your project vehicles.

My 0.2. I'm not knocking you, just making a suggestion from my expererience with project cehicles. I wish I had 12G's to blow on a car or bike. It would be sick and I'd be in heaven.

ronnie dont think that could have been put any better, sounded like you won an oscar!!
... now hans raciong i herd of that and they only make kits for 2g is there anywere that will make one for a 1g?? is it possible or even safe to grab a turbo from a turbo 1g and put it on my 1g??
josh

For 1G's it's a whole lot easier.

My suggestion for the 1G guys, rather than mess with the turboing a NT setup, I would just spend the $1300-$1500 to buy a warrantied JDM turbo motor WITH tranny. This is a lot easier. It bolts right up. Bit and pieces will still be needed though. Some motors come more complete than others. These extras are relativly easy to find used...ie BOV, IC and such.

I'm not an expert on the NT's though. My suggestion for you Josh is to go the JDM route. It seems to be the easiest way. Many shops do this swap i believe.

18" rims - 1600$
Stereo - 2000$
BMW PAint - 3000$
Momo Seats - 1500$
Suspension - 1500$
Exhaust, spoiler, small engine mods, small repairs, other cosmetic mods, guages, - 2500$

Won't do next time - Momo seats, stereo, paint.
That's 6500$ I could have spent on a SICK turbo set up. God damn I'm an idiot.... but at least I look good being one.

You went extreme on the paint, stereo and such. Either that or you payed far too much. It could and should've been cheaper.

I say, part some of your stereo gear, sell the wheels, sell the seats, cut your losses and start saving for a kit. Sell the wing too.

PS. you might look good, but as soon as you get smoked by a Civic Si, or any motor swapped honda, than you'll look even sillier. Man, I've driven 420A's. I seriously cannot believe how slow they are stock. I can floor the thing in first and just stare at the tach waiting and waiting for redline. Same for second, same for third, not very fun to drive at all. I can't even merge properly with that thing....ugh.

I'd take a lowered stock turbo talon over a "pretty" talon. The car looks beautiful as it is. Once it's lowered, it's even more beautiful, what more do you need? Speed is the fun part of the car my friend, not what people think of oyur car. But to each his own I guess. I cringe at the thought of TWELVE THOUSAND DOLLARS being spent on cosmetics alone. TWELVE THOUSAND!!!!! That's my tuition and living costs for 2 years!!!!!

Ronnie its not the engine cost i am worried about its the frickin labour charges that are not worth it at all> i mean the engine is an amazing deal infact somewhat cheap and on warrenty, but thats a big job and alot of money, probably looking just over 3 G's including engine and thats minimum. considering i dont know sh!t about an engine, and can even put together lego with instruction, hell i find kinder surprises difficult, the only surprise in that is me being so surprised how stupid i am... now what do i do

josh

Josh, you answered your own question.

No matter how much money you have in your car, sell it and buy a TSi FWD.

I just sold my mint FWD Tsi for dirt cheap. There is one on sale right now for 2G's. You can spring the money for that if you sell your car for 2G's in the trader.

Well that is a great idea, but here is the thing, i want speed, and i understand it is front wheel drive, but i want to go peer looks and just have a bit of speed to back it up you know? i not like a total speedaholic, i have had one frind die like that... but i mean i am just sick and tired of pulling up to a honda civic si smokn him, i want enough speed so i can do alot more then that but not lookin for alot. i feel i can make my car as fast as anyone elses its just the FWD that will hurt me a bit. i already ordered in my kit, and its hard as hell to sell a NT, do i regret it no! people overlook NT talons just because there is a turbo for them, but everyone thinks an si is sick.. plus i can throw just as good if not better motor in there as them and we are both FWD plus i will look 100 times better then him and well jack him because i shift faster then any of them ricers. i mean i am young so the way i see it, i have to buy everything, can only work so much, school to pay for, so why not look at the car as like a project, look back and be like i made a stock looking NT, into a turbo, sick looking car!
but i dont know, guess i am going to have to wait and see.

If you're looking to look good, keep the NT. If you're looking to go fast, save the money for speed mods. A FWD Tsi with exhaust and MBC takes A LOT of cars out there. There are not that many cars on the road daily that will take it. Unless they are other turbo cars.

I just don't understand why everyone wants to looks good for people they will never talk to or probably ever see again. For 1.5 seconds as you're driving by. Or 20 seconds in a parking lot. It makes me sad to see a modified NA version of anything that came turbo. It really does.

Bottom line is that when i see a cosmetically modded out car and NO speed to back it up and complains about the lack of speed...what does it say to me about that person? It says to me that the person values what other people think about them more than they value their own enjoyment. Know what I mean? It's jsut a tease. It's a front, a show to look like something you're not.

that's what I think about pretty cars that go slow.

That is one of the most beautiful things I have ever read.

very true very true that is why i love the looks because it looks even better when i get out of the car....! but i do want just a bit of speed like you said enough so it can beat most around here you know. not lookin to blow a sh!t load of car, but at least be one of them you know.

Where did you order your kit from? Hahn? How long did they tell you i'd take to get to Ontario? And how much was shipping. If I did the math right, the stage 1 kit comes to 3500$ plus tax and shipping (canadian funds). If I had the money now, Id do it in a second, but I'm in school now, and it sucks.

As for looking good, back in the day, I wasn't aware of any kits that were available for NA's. I knew I could only go so far with a N/T, by doing the basic things. So, I had money to spend back then, and I figured, well, I mind as well make it look nice. Its a head turner, and its not for 1.5 seconds. Where I come from, its a town of 15000 people. Everyone knows everyone, and I am someone. Three people in town have 18inch rims, and I am one of em. I like my image, and I dont do it for others. I do it for myself. I like being showy, and flashy. Thats just me. If I knew back then that there was a kit, I would have bought it. To be honest, when I bought my car when I was 17, I didn't even know that they made a turbo awd. Ya, it's embarrasing, but I was young, and didn't do my research. I regret it, yes. Every day, I wish I had a tsi. I plan on selling my car in the summer, and getting a 97 or 98 TSi, but for now, my 97 ESi will have to do. I'm thankful for even having a car, let alone something that is decent as a Talon. I'm not ashamed of being all show and no go. Trust me, I've smoked many cars out there. Not even close to the cars TSi's compete with, but I'm in a totally different category, and for now, until I find 4000 bucks for a Hahn Kit, my non turbo will have to do.

Its true though, i live in burlington, and once you have a nice car everyone seems to know your name.. i like looks, and i am going to do it for myself, no one elese.. i mean all i think about is the summer and just going somewhere like wasaga and CRUISIN the strip, no turbo needed there, just peer show ride. And besides not every car is AWD, and they seem to be fuckin fast when they do engine tweaks or new engines, so can a FWD talon, onviously not as fast as a ADW talong TSI but they have the advantage off the line, AWD doesnt really help you when you already going, u know what i mean???

i dont know , sometimes i like to cruise with a nice ride, im young and for my age to be spending this much money is good enough for me

josh

Pure that is,
I still fail to compile what your opinion was there.
Also you have a misunderstanding about FWD and AWD, each one has its own potential.

NT are reasonably good cars but they are not fast cars or anything. (mind you I like them enough) but to be able to pull up atleast for talon you need the Turbo.

Just decide what you want to do, in couple of posts your ideas and opinions are all over the place with hard-to-understand language mechanics

Not knocking you, but that's my point entirely.

You say that you are "someone" because of the way your car looks. I'm sorry, but that does not compute for me. I don't want to be "someone" because of the way my stinking car looks. If that's what it takes for people to think you're special or important..than that's just you. You like to "show off" to be "flashy" that's my point. There are so many things that I could go off on here.

How can you like your 'image' but not care what people think of you? It doens't make sense to me. Image is not what YOU percieve, it's what OTHERS percieve. We are inherently more important than a CAR, know what I mean?

I'm really off topic here, I apologize, I don't mean to offend you Peter, jsut that it doesn't make sense to me that someone would blow TWELVE THOUSAND DOLLARS on image and not care what others think.

Don't think of this as an insult, or a knock, think of it as a suggestion. People will not remeber somebody for a STINKING car. They'll remember someone for who they are, not their 'image' through material possesions (an all show possesion at that) This is like the really really hot girl, with all the right curves, all the right clothes, all the right make up, all the right moves....but with nothing to back it up. With no brains, no life. Just another pretty face. No personality. people won't remember that for long, people appreciate for a second, makes her feel good, than in the long run, she's gone.

Image through material posessions and looks suck. There is more to life than what people percieve me as when it comes to a friggin car.

The last time I went to Wasaga, it was the biggest waste of time. All it was, was a bunch of punks showing off how pretty there car was. huge traffic jams.

As far as doing it for yourself, read above post, if you want to cruise and show off, it's not for you, it's for them.

Don't get me wrong, I love nice looking cars and bikes. Just the mentality behind it has to jive too. Back that look up with some speed.

BTW, a FWD Turbo talon, will ROAST a AWD turbo talon from a roll with identical mods. Most races are from a roll.

People also can tell a NA Talon from a Boosted Talon. As soon as you get on the throttle, or even at idle if you have exhaust. Night and day my friend.

I'm not sure if either of you have driven a turbo car before, but if you have, I cannot figure out how this doens't make sense. If you haven't, I suggest that you do.

All show no go cars, suck. The people who appreciate them are the ones who also only care about their image. That's the bottom line. So at the end of the day, all you're impressing is other material and image obsessed people. That is the truth.

Think about that one.

One more thing, it's not that I hate slow cars or anything. I just hate slow cars that try to look fast and try to actually race. The saddest thing in the world is to witness a race between two 17 or 16 second cars. It's a laughing matter literally. Especially when they are all kitted up. You do realize that any modern MINIVAN (ie Caravan, Odyessy, MPV, Transport, Montana, you name it, it'll take you), V6 SUV, PICKUP TRUCK, is faster than a NT Talon? Or a Civic Si (SOHC Vtec) or countless other pretty boy cars that are all modified visually.

If you like your ride, than so be it. I'm not telling you that you should sell the thing, I'm jsut saying, you know what you spent oyur money on, just don't complain about being slow after you blow and waste all that money on image.

Know what I mean?

i totally understand what you rae saying, but i am 17 and can not afford alot you know. i dont really care, i just am happy that my money actually got what i have right now. thanks for you opinions because if i could do it different and had more money i would go the route you did obviously. i would love to have a tsi and i have drivin a tsi with 24 psi and fast as hell... i loved it but hey i bought it when i was 16 had like no money and i love my car too much... but i know i will be wasting money making it faster when i could have bought a tsi but hey, im young and will be making tonnes of money soon so i dont care\

but thans for the advice

josh

True. I respect that, enjoy it, at least you have a car, right?

Just keep it real. In that I mean don't front and complain about being slow when you blow the money on looking good.

some poeple rather spped over looks, some rather looks over speed, and some people have the money to do both. i on the uther hand am 17 and luckly have a good thing going for me... school i have to pay for next year, and all the other expenses that come with a car do not allow me to do much. but hey, it will be fast enough, i mean i will be turboing it for sure! even though i should have just bought a TSI from the beginning..
well this threat kinda went off track a bit
hahaha

josh

Hey guys, I'm just going to jump in quickly here.

Peter, I grew up in Cobourg so I know the small town thing you are talking about and it's actually kinda cool there. Especially driving down the main drag there along the lake. I can't remember it's name though.

Anyways, I have a 97 TSi with a little bit of both mods going. Looks and speed. The looks department is important to me. It's nice to have compliments from people, but that's not what I strive for. I strive for having a car that stands out and it's not like all the other cars on the road. That's why I bought a Talon in the first place, because it's rare. Second of all, I love the way my car looks. When I'm walking up to and it's cleaned, waxed and looking all sparkly I am very happy with it and very happy that that's my baby in front of me. I always stare at it for a second when I get out, cause I truely love my car.

Those are also the reasons why I decided not to sell despite having a few calls about it already.

Just my pocket change.

Noah

Welcome to the discussion Noah.

I hear you on the loving your car part. Although mine are short love affairs as you can see. I love them all the same. They all get the same treatment, they all get polished and wash with the same care for it. They all get babied when it's cold. I drive them hard, yes, but within reason and I make sure everything can stand up to it first.

But...I still don't understand Form over Function part of the equation. It's like being commented on the way YOU look as a person, rather than what you accomplish or ARE.

The whole world runs on this mentality, it sickens me. It's always about looks and materials, rather than what matters, waht come sout of it, what lasts. (this thread is going WAY off topic, but it's the NT forum anyways )

Form over function is two thumbs down in my books. A mixture is very welcome. It's called balance. Same applies to all in life....BALANCE.

Ronnie, I do have to admit though that I prefer speed over looks. But I'm certainly no mechanic which often means steep labour charges. When you are doing stuff in the looks dept, they can often be done yourself. Meaning when I have two items that are say $300, one can be installed myself for free while the other might be another $300 is labour. Makes it a bit of a tough decision.

However, that being said, I do have many mods that aren't appearance (I guess my suspension applies to both) but I've done a lot of research and I'm getting ready to tackle a few engine jobs this summer. I hope it all goes smoothly.

I'm not going to argue with you about caring what people think about your car, cause I don't care about it either. I've had lots of people say they love my car, and others think it's pure rice. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm fine with that. I'm happy with my ride and this summer, I'm hoping to hit 13s to really make me happy. Once I get that first 13 slip I will be the happiest DSMer in the club.

Once you get that 13 second slip, you'll want to go 12's, then you get the 12's, you want 11's. Then you're broke, and have a broke car too. Unless you're rich. The more mods, them more upkeep. Simple.

Then you'll get sick of cars for a while and buy a bike. Low 10's out of the box, average rider.

Cars are just all about money, ahhhhhhh i wish i made more..! but hey u know what its personal, what you look for in a car is like caomparing what u look for in a woman, some people will dissagree but you cant let there opinion change the way you feel. TSI or not who gives a flying frack, we have talons, the best damn cars in the world, TSI,ESI who gives a sh!t. Some love spped, well you get it from a talon, some love looks and you get that from a talon as well, I love my talon, looks good could be faster, some people talon have speed but could look better... but it all comes down to the fact we drive talons...im out i going to put my baby to sleep!

josh

Talons are not the best cars in the world. I'm sorry but that statement is so untrue for me, I love DSM's, I also love many other cars equally.

Every car has good points and bad points. It's all relative. What's the best for you, is not the best for me.

The best car in the world doesn't exist.

Now, for bikes, it's a different story....

ohhh hell yeah this is true i mean 33zx or a ferrari or an f1...but i cant afford those! so for now this is my favorite car!!