Conversion Gurus needed

There seems to be many many dicrepencies between websites, boards and faqs on the wiring of the 7th extra maf wire when doing a turbo conversion. Some say it goes to pin 6 on the ecu (which acording to this already has a wire there) and some say pin 10. I am aware of the differences in schematics between 90 and 91-94 ecu's and this does not apply. I have also heard of people not hooking it up at all and the car ran fine. (some one here I beleive) Who knows if they were logging or not. So where does this wire go. Some one who has DONE the swap, please reply so I dont get a whole bunch of guesses here.


Also, another problem I am having difficulty finding a definate answer to after numerous searches on numerous boards is "is there or is there not a tapped hole on an N/T block in the same place as a turbo block" for the knock sensor???? We are talking 4g63n/t here people. Some say there is but the hole is not tapped, some say its there but on a different location and some say its not there and the cast has to be drilled and tapped. Which is it so I can order a tap from work before wasting time while doing "rice wagons" conversion.

Thanx

I'll try to help. Its been awhile but I'll try my best.
This info is for 91-94 models.
The 7th wire is green with a white tracer. Its called "Air flow sensor active filter reset". I'm retty sure it hooks up to pin 6 on the ECU.
What that wire does....beats the **** out of me.
Now myself I don't have that wire hooked up. The runs, idles fine.I logged the car with TMO software and there didn't seemed to be anything wrong. But I do plan on hooking it up(someday),I mean it there for some reason and i hope it will solve some of the knock issuses with the car.
As for the knock sensor I used the bolt hole the holds the AC Compressor bracket. My car never came with AC. 11 years with the bolt hole open to the elements made it tough going for the knock sensor to screw in. I recommend running a tap through there before screwing the knock sensor in. It makes life easier.

What kind of Knock issues are you having? I think the sensor was desinged to work correctly on one spot on the block only. That is probably your problem. Was there not a spot for it where it was supposed to be?

Any drivability issues without the 7th maf wire? What kind of hz readings are you seeing at WOT? Are you using an AFC or anything to control fuel? Can you list some of the details of your setup?

Thanx

Come to think of it, yes there was a spot for it. But I over tighten it and snapped the sensor in half. So I had to look for anthoer spot for it.
From what I remember, I thik the HZ reading was 1609 at WOT.
The car drive fine under 50% throttle but hassitates under full load. But not always. Sometimes it just rockets of the line. Wires or plugs maybe.

• Running No fuel control
• 13g
• 450's
• NT fuel pump
• TSi regulator
• 91 Turbo ECU
• no oil cooler
• stock 1G side mount

Did a compresion test a few weeks ago using a cheap CT tester
201,205,200,210

Man these engines can take a beating

Ouch man! Can you get an easy out on the remaining sensor!

Josh will be using a 13b and auto injectors and auto ecu. Do you think that using a 5-speed FPR will be a problem causing it to run lean without a fuel control? All I know is that the auto FPR's increase fuel preasure more than a 5-speed FPR does.

No I don't think it will be a problem. If it is he will have to take it easy.

That 7th wire I connected directly from the MAS to the pinout 6. I don't remember if that is the correct pinout but I will check on Tuesday for you.

I have my knock sensor into the back of my n/t block right under the head. The stock location is not tapped for the knock sensor but this place is. I have 3G lifters so phantom knock isn't an issue. It read knock pretty well in this location.

Tim, doesnt pin 6 on a N/T ECU harness already have a wire there acording to the link I posted above? Is it just tapped then?

Exactly where below the head did you place the knock sensor? Are you talking aboput that spot almost directly below the TB?

He is my share,

I have 14b, 450's and Manual ECU in a NT Automatic.


I drove the car for 6months without the 7th wire. NO ISSUES. got it logged and nothing wrong visible.

I recently connected it and made it no better no worse. In my 92 it is now connected to pin 6th on ECU. I think 6 is the one that you have to swap if you use a 91+ ECU in 90 and that is why in a 90 car pin6 is used.


My 92 wiring(Galan) had nothing on PIN 6.
I checked it a few times with the shop manual and factury diagrams. The active reset should be 6 AS FAR AS I KNOW.


I think it has had no effect because of its odd function. It's an active reset, I think what it does is that the ecu resets the flow reader whenever it find it necessary. Could be when MAS over run is detected to after a certain period or whatever.

That happens anyways when the car iis shutoff. So At most the active reset makes it more accurate.


and last, I don't know about the knock sensor as my car came with one (NT) and my block is a T block ayways. in 92 the Galants NT came with KS. so there might be a variation regarding that matter.

I would personally think the it is better to have the sensor mounted where it is design to be but after all it shouldn't matter as it is a microphone.


Tim, is there thread on your NT blocks?!

Great, one less wire to worrie about! I'll forget about it for now as we are pressed for time.

As for the knock sensor, I guess we'll find out how its working in the spot Tim is talking about when we log it for the first WOT run. I'll tap the other location later on if it seems to be acting funny in Tims spot.

when one wire goes down that channel just attach the second one to it too.

I mean the actual problem is having a coat hanger go through. once that is done you can pass 10 wires and takes no extra time. But anyways.

Yes. There are threads. The stock location for the knock sensor is low on the 2nd cylinder. On my 90 6-bolt block, there were threads in the non-stock spot closer to the head on the back of the 3rd cylinder, but not in the stock location. I just used the non-stock 3rd cylinder location. No problems. Reads knock just fine.

On my 93 7-bolt block, 3 holes (the stock and 2 non-stock knock sensor locations) were threaded. Beats the **** out of me why, but there were 3 holes and all were threaded and could potentially be used to hold the knock sensor.

isn't the knock sensor location right in the centre?!

Thanx for the help, one last question.

Did you use the stock maf plug on the N/T haress or use one from a TSI? I heard they arent the same fit besides missing a wire. Can you confirm this?

they are NOT the same.

T has 8 pins with one not used. NT has 6. I got a 8 pin froma turbo and then hooked up proper plugs to the end of wires and then plugged it into the NT wiring. I was trying to save the NT wiring.


Good idea is to destroy a NT maf and use that as an adaptor. you will need a turbo plug though. But after all you can cut teh old plug and hook the wiring to the new plug.

or you can jus not use the plug and use individual plugs and stick them in one by one. or solder them. not a bright idea as service would be impossible to do!


I have the plug if Josh wants to buy it.

Yes please!!!! Tell him you have it. That way my buddy doesnt have to hack his out of his car.


Amin, thanx a bunch man!

Another thing about the MAS sensor.
The bolts that hold the sensor to the air can itself have a different bolt pattern from the NT compared to the Turbo sensor.
You can always drill the new pattern and use RTV to seal it, but life would be easier if you have the air can from a turbo.

You talking about that back plate kind of thing the mas itself bolts to? Or just the "can" part. If you are talking about the back plate like thing, thanx for the heads up, I was just gonna use the N/T one and just the mas itself from a turbo.

The back plate thing "the cap" I guess you can call it. The wire harness connector is part of it.
The other reason to use the "cap" is its about 1/2" wider than the NT. Not much difference but you will need it because without that 1\2" the Turbo inlet pipe will be to short.

He has an aftermarket intake so it has some adjustabilliy with the couplers anyways.

Thanx.

Just to let you know Rob, I have the Mas can and brackets and all that stuff....

Matt

Sweet, you got mail!

Scott decided to part out his car. All the parts that Josh needs Scott should have.
I go down to that neck woods once a week so I could pick up those parts.
http://www.ca.dsm.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=005980

Thanx but I am pretty sure we got everything now. It should all be there by Saturday. He needs a 2.5 upper IC pipe if you know of any.

No I don't. I made mine out of 2" copper line. (plumbing pipe) and some rubber couplings from HomeDepot.
Yes I'm cheap.

Josh wouldnt go for anything not so bling!

I just remember something else that you might not of thought of.
What type of oil cooler do you plan on using? if any at all. (I don't have one...yet)
If you do plan on using a stock one, (90 style) than any year stock coolant pipe will work, and you also need the oil filter assembly BUT if you plan on using 91 and up style you will need a coolant pipe from a 91 and up Turbo, NOT the one from a 90.
90's have only one coolant outlet for the turbo
91's and up have two, one for the turbo and one for the oil cooler.
I encoutered all these little things when I did my conversion . There's probally more little things but I just can't remeber them right now.

Ah ****!

So we need a water pipe from a 91-94 then. Isnt there a way to getto rig something up?

I just thought of something. Can I not cut the water pipe in half and use a coupler of some sort to connect it to the other half ot the water pipe that was already on the car?

No, well I highly don't recommend that.
You are just asking for trouble.

I guess you can rig somekind of "T" fitting on the coolant line that goes to the turbo.

Was planning on using his 92 oil cooler.

Why wont a piece of rad hose used as a coupler work very well or cause trouble as you say? Is it under more pressure than the upper rad hose or something?

you still need the outlet. But other reason is one end is bolted to the block and the other end has an O-ring seal which slides into the water pump. With a rubber couple in the middle of the pipe might cause the pipe to move, virbrate, whatever and wearout the o-ring prematurely. Not to mention that if the coupler ever leaked it would be a hell of a job trying to fix it.
But hey, I'm game for whatever it takes.

About your "t" idea. Why did we even need a water pipe in the first place when we could "T" one of the cooler lines to feed the turbo?

hmmm...I guess you could.
But now you are dicking around with mickey mouse fittings and clamps, hoses, etc. It just makes more work and it won't look stock.

I dont mind mickey mouse if its not my car.

SIGH.......

This is turning out to be a headache before I even do anything to the car. I am gonna say screw it and try to "T" the turbo coolant feed to the turbo from the cooler. If it doesnt work, At least I tried. Parts can always be purchased again at a later time. Josh isnt giving me much time here so he is gonna get mickey mouse whether he likes it or not.

If anybody else has some input... <h5>Jump in,</h5> we don't bite.

I might even try using a propane torch and some solder and attatch that fitting to the N/T pipe from the turbo pipe. I just dont want to screw it up. Mabey this Sat, I'll try to find a welding shop in Burlington to do it real fast.

And another thing, I am getting a 50/50 responce on whether to even run coolant on this little turbo. I might even just forget about the coolant so Josh can have it done, do his bling work, then in the spring, hopefully have a new prper water pipe to put on. We'll see.

Fine...

I say run it without coolant until you get the proper bits & pieces. Just plug the holes in the turbo for now.

Josh is only running babyboost anyways, it isn't going to hurt anything.

Then when Josh swaps his motor/turbo setup for something with balls he can put the proper water pipes in

Done! Thats that. Everything else should be straight forward.

Oh yeah Rob don't forget to bring a bag of metric bolts.
I threw them all into the grass while ripping Josh's car apart.

JUST KIDDING
He should have them all

Really, I should actually remind you that the fuel pump is disconnected. There are two connectors under the car near the gas tank. I unplugged them to run the car out of fuel pressure. I don't think I ever plugged them back in.

It'd be pretty damn funny for me and no fun for you at all if you couldn't start the car because of that

Yeah, thanx for the heads up. I would have lost it for sure and started to break stuff!