Drive Clean .. FAILED!?!

I don't believe it!?! My '95 Talon ESI (132k and no mods) failed its drive clean test. Here are the results:

ASM2525 Test
(test / limit / reading / result)
HC ppm: 74 130 FAIL !
CO %: 0.41 0.28 PASS
NO ppm: 547 83 PASS
RPM: 1838 VALID
DILUTION: 15.3 VALID

CURB IDLE TEST:
(test / limit / reading / result)
HC ppm: 200 194 PASS
CO %: 1.00 0.21 PASS
NO ppm: n/a n/a n/a
RPM: 871 VALID
DILUTION: 14.8 VALID

Any ideas on what might be wrong before i
shell out for the Drive Clean diagnositic test?

It blows me away, because i'm religious about
the oil changes and maintenance schedule. Two years ago my car passed with these results:

ASM2525 Test
(test / limit / reading / result)
HC ppm: 74 24 PASS
CO %: 0.41 0.03 PASS
NO ppm: 547 65 PASS
RPM: 2498 VALID
DILUTION: VALID

Any ideas? I've only got 2 weeks to go before
plate renewals...

thanks in advance,
Frank

I don't want to freak you out or anything Frank, but do you know what your compression is currently testing at? is it within spec? (maybe test it if you don't know to find out) -I saw a 'similar' test results on my Jeep when the compression was way lower than spec

You're running too rich for some reason. As you've stated you have an unmod'd engine, the only thing left that I can see is that either your injectors aren't firing correctly (injectors are dirty -not atomizing well, or your timing may be off?) or if your compression is low, incomplete combustion is occuring. I wouldn't think it would be your catcon as the NO numbers should be elevated as well.

good luck

I think the O2 mostly effect CO and HC comes from oil burning but I really can't imagine a car with 132k on it burns that much oil.

I would try changing the air filter, re gapping the sparks and use a more viscous oil or some of that STP thing to harden the oil. and also O2. just something to look into
you might not cure it fully but you can make it good enough to just pass the test.

Amin

FWIW: Remember Craig, those numbers from the Jeep were with low compression, and no cat...

But, like you said I'd expect the rest of the results to be worse as well.

Not sure if you know this - but you should have your car tested when the engine is warmed up or hot. If you just started it, then drove it to the testing facility straight away, and the engine was still cold, you'd likely fail.
Is your cat in good shape?

From the research i've done into my high HC count, it looks like its going to come down to either a bad catalytic converter or a fault O2 sensor. I also happened to catch an episode of Motoring 2002 on TSN and garage guy said cars running too rich/lean .. check the O2 sensors.

So my next question is, how many O2 sensors are there (as the guy on tv said some cars have several) and much should i expect to pay? How much does a catalytic converter go for? And just how long are these componants supposed to last?

My cars goes back to the shop tomr for the diagnostic...

thanks for the replies!
Frank

On any passenger vehicle made after 95, there will be 2. Hook up a voltmeter to them to see if they are still cycling.

Hello.

An o2 Sensor should be about $125 to $150 and a Cat shoud be about $175 to $200 (these price don't include instalation).

An o2 Sensor should be good for at least 5 years and a Cat should last 7 to 10 years as long as the Engine is in Good running condition.

Your theory about the Cat/o2 is probably right. The test facility should of also give you some recomendation as to what to replace.

Hope this helps.

Ghislain.

damn I gotta keep away from that crack pipe!!

I have no idea why I was going in that direction earlier...

O2 sensor... also check your intake plumbing to make sure there aren't any tears/cracks/splits or leaks (easily the first to check for rich condition)

next time I'll just take my .02 and just save it till it's worth more

Results are back .. they hooked up the diag computer and tracked it down to a bad plug and ignition wires (arcing?). So they reran the Drive Clean test and here are the results:

ASM2525 Test
(test / limit / reading / result)
HC ppm: 74 30 PASS
CO %: 0.41 0.07 PASS
NO ppm: 547 36 PASS
RPM: 2160 VALID
DILUTION: 15.2 VALID

CURB IDLE TEST:
(test / limit / reading / result)
HC ppm: 200 165 PASS
CO %: 1.00 0.62 PASS
NO ppm: n/a n/a n/a
RPM: 864 VALID
DILUTION: 15.4 VALID

Hope you guys find the results (as well as the original post way above) useful

Gezzz.. now i gotta shell out to renew my plates?!?

'95 Talon ESI

It's now 2yrs later ... i've got 180k on the odometer. Happy to report i passed Drive Clean, just barely. Results for anyone who needs a baseline reference on an ESI with no mods:

ASM2525 Test
(test / limit / reading / result)
HC ppm: 65 64 PASS
CO %: 0.36 0.10 PASS
NO ppm: 484 50 PASS
RPM: 1539 VALID
DILUTION: 15.5 VALID

CURB IDLE TEST:
(test / limit / reading / result)
HC ppm: 200 52 PASS
CO %: 1.00 0.05 PASS
NO ppm: n/a n/a n/a
RPM: 821 VALID
DILUTION: 15.4 VALID


'95 Talon ESI

Just out of curiosity...have you ever replaced your O2 sensor? If the answer is no then your awfully lucky to have passed. They're really only good up to 100k.

Hi all...

My Talon's been in garage storage for the past 2yrs and i've recently pulled it out for its Drive Clean test. Given that my car failed the last round and barely passed on a subsequant test (see results above), I thought i'd take a gamble and take it for the test.

Apart from two annual oil changes and some fuel stabilizer, nothing else has been done .. except for a bottle of fuel injector cleaner a month ago. I run the engine each weekend just to keep the cobwebs out of the engine.

Amazingly, my car passed .. and what's weird, the results are MUCH better than before !?!

ASM2525 Test
(test / limit / reading / result)
HC ppm: 57 29 PASS
CO %: 0.32 0.08 PASS
NO ppm: 421 24 PASS
RPM: 1472 VALID
DILUTION: 14.8 VALID

CURB IDLE TEST:
(test / limit / reading / result)
HC ppm: 200 45 PASS
CO %: 1.00 0.19 PASS
NO ppm: n/a n/a n/a
RPM: 858 VALID
DILUTION: 14.7 VALID

For some reason, the HC dropped from 64 to 29 and NO from 50 to 24? The only other thing i can think of is that instead of gasing up with higher octane before the test, it went in with the remaining regular i filled up from 2yrs ago.

The gov't also tightened up the limits, sigh!

Catching up and posting my results from past year for the record, in case you'd like to compare:

2008..

ASM2525 Test
(test / limit / reading / result)
HC ppm: 57 28 PASS
CO %: 0.32 0.06 PASS
NO ppm: 421 30 PASS
RPM: 776 VALID
DILUTION: 15 VALID

CURB IDLE TEST:
(test / limit / reading / result)
HC ppm: 200 30 PASS
CO %: 1.00 0.07 PASS
NO ppm: n/a n/a n/a
RPM: 453 VALID
DILUTION: 15 VALID

2010...

ASM2525 Test
(test / limit / reading / result)
HC ppm: 66 66 PASS
CO %: 0.37 0.12 PASS
NO ppm: 968 99 PASS
RPM: 1407 VALID
DILUTION: 15.3 VALID

CURB IDLE TEST:
(test / limit / reading / result)
HC ppm: 200 143 PASS
CO %: 1.00 0.57 PASS
NO ppm: n/a n/a n/a
RPM: 844 VALID
DILUTION: 15.3 VALID

2012...

ASM2525 Test
(test / limit / reading / result)
HC ppm: 57 56 PASS
CO %: 0.32 0.03 PASS
NO ppm: 421 157 PASS
RPM: 1403 VALID
DILUTION: 15.3 VALID

CURB IDLE TEST:
(test / limit / reading / result)
HC ppm: 200 10 PASS
CO %: 1.00 0.19 PASS
NO ppm: n/a n/a n/a
RPM: 859 VALID
DILUTION: 15.3 VALID

2014... at this point, my exhaust has been patched all over the place for rust holes and crakes. Even that elbow from the manifold down to the flex pipe had some cracked.

Hmmm, new format for the test.

2500RPM Test
(test / limit / reading / result)
HC ppm: 200 123 PASS
CO %: 1 0.2 PASS
RPM : 1250-2750 N/A BYPASSED
DILUTION: 6 14.8 VALID

CURB IDLE TEST:
(test / limit / reading / result)
HC ppm: 200 84 PASS
CO %: 1.00 0.03 PASS
RPM: <1250 n/a BYPASSED
DILUTION: 6 14.46 VALID

I don't get it, the dilution limit is 6 , my car is 2x that limit, and it's VALID?!? I'm not complaining :-)

2016... about 4 weeks ahead of this test, finally gave in and decided to replace the whole exhaust system, from the manifold down to the muffler. The original parts were rusted through and through. Bought some nice parts of ebay, surprised how cheap its going for, i guess everyone is trying to unload inventory. Put in a new Magnaflow catly as well!

2500RPM Test
(test / limit / reading / result)
HC ppm: 200 161 PASS
CO %: 1 0.25 PASS
RPM: 1250-2750 2390 VALID
DILUTION: 6 14.44 VALID

CURB IDLE TEST:
(test / limit / reading / result)
HC ppm: 200 116 PASS
CO %: 1.00 0.06 PASS
RPM: <1250 850
DILUTION: 6 13,.96 VALID

So essentially you just needed a new exhaust system?

Nice to know the high flow cat works.