1g No Start

Here I am again!

Yesterday morning I started the car and reversed out from the garage. Parked it in the drive way and went back in the garge to get something. As I turned my back the car SHUT OFF. I did not think anything of it, it never happend before.

Returned to the car about 5 minutes later, and nothing no start. Insert the key all lights come on, turn to start nothing but a single click.

So I am thinking starter problem again, or a bad cell in the battery.

Battery is new as of 3 months, and the starter...well I am sure you read my "roll to start post" (its fairly new).

Last night I pulled the battery & starter. Installed a newly rebuilt starter (got this tested earlier in the day it is good) and installed a another new battery.

Still nothing other than a single click.

Any ideas?

Sounds like what happened to me recently. The battery would show good voltage, but failed a load test. Turn the key, and all I would get is a single click. All of my lights/radio/etc worked, but no start. Crappy Tire exhanged the battery, and since then the car starts just fine.

I had a Canadian Tire battery, replaced it with a new Mitsubishi direct fit battery.

Still nothing.

Maybe the starter relay?
and if it is where is that relay located?

For some reason, I didn't see that in your original post. I blame lack of coffee. My appologies.

Check your grounds.

Sounds like grounds to me too.

But there is a mysterious single-click no-start problem that plauges some DSMs. I get it on occasion. I have to rapidly turn the key from on to start, repeatedly, and it starts. Give it a shot. If you get it running that way, I'm sorry but you got the illness - if you find a cure please pass it along! I've tried everything!

To answer your question, the starter relay is under the dash to the left of the steering column among some other relays.
I don't think it's your problem though. If the click you are hearing is under the hood, then the starter is getting triggered and the click is the gear engaging the flywheel. For some reason the starter isn't getting enough amps, or it's stuck.

Just throwing this out there. But when my 90 talon did the exact same thing. It was the remote wire on the starter, it wouldn't clip on so everynow and then it would fall off. Having just rebuilt the starter and assembled it probably hasnt been overlooked. Also with the car just shuting off by itself thats kinda wierd.

How are the ECU caps?

Wow. Plenty to look at tonight.

ECU Caps. They were done...roughyly 6 years ago?

1. The remote wire clips onto the starter with a soild click when it connected.

2. Ground wire for the starter was cleaned off along with the matting surface and tight. The ground wire from the battery to the firewall good and tight. The other ground wire that is close to the clutch cylinder is good also. The other 2 ground wires next to each headlight are good.
Am I missing any other ground wires?

What should be my next game of attack?

Disconnected the (-) and (+) terminal cables.
Removed the terminal blocks for each side & clean them GOOD.
Assembled it all back & connected back to the battery.

Thinking that this would work...but nothing again.
Either I know that the terminal blocks are clean and worry free when I do get the car started.

I still have to boost the car and see if that works.
Going to boost it with a battery charger with the boost/start feature and see if that works. (tomorrow @ lunch).

Boosting the car with a car charger did NOTHING.

Removed the starter.

Took both starters to the rebuild shop and had them test it out.
They are fine, no issues.

So after work I will be testing out the starter relay.

Anyone have a part number for the starter relay for a 1g AWD?

Will post what happens later tonight.

Update:

After confirming that the starter is GOOD. I proceeded to remove the driver side kick panel (below the steering wheel) to look for the starter relay.

I was using an OEM manual that I got from Craig Watson...however the book stated 1993 on the title.
Thinking that the starting system would be the same as the 1990. I was wrong.
I downloaded a 1990 version of the starting drawing from ALLDATA.

The first image shows the 1993 drawing and the 2nd drawing shows the 1990 drawing. You will notice that the starter relay diagram shows the coil different from each other.





MB510818 = 1990 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD, 5spd

Tested the starter relay = GOOD.

Next thing to look for would be the theft/alarm starter relay and the ignition relay and get them tested.

Hey, just out of curiosity, you ever think to check the 3 fuses under the hood on the battery?

Check your starter harness as well. Make sure you're making contact in the harness.

Your IGN relay will be fine if you get all the lights on the dash to light up. If it wasn't, more than likely that IGN relay under the hood on the battery will be popped, indicating a short somewhere.

Ryan.
The 3 fuses on the (+) cable was the first thing that I checked. They are fine, tested each one and passed.

Once I put back the relay's; my next step would of been the starter harness.

Thank you.

Just traced the starter harness and its all in one pc. Did not find any cracked wires or exposed wire. Cleaned the ground connection and the power wire that connects to the starter.

Tomorrow I will reinstall the starter and see where this takes me.

How come you haven't checked your alternator? If the battery is not holding the charge it could well be your alternator.

I could check the alternator.
I still have to re-install the driver side kick panel, and install the starter.

Been too busy today at the house making sure the framer is on track.

Wouldn't a alternator issue give me some earlier signs? Because I got no signs. Either way I will check it out. Thanks Paul.

You said the car shut off by itself while it was running. I don't think the starter would have much to do with it.

Boosting the car does nothing means it's not the alternator or the battery itself.

I'd check wires...have you measured resistance from one end to the other?

I agree with Ju....I don't think it is a battery/alternator/starter issue because of the fact the car shut off by itself.
I would be thinking ignition if it weren't for the fact the car won't turn over again.

You said ECU caps were done 6 years ago? That is a fairly long time, no?

Also, can you have someone turn the key for you and determine WHERE exactly the single click is coming from?

This morning I scored some free time away from building the house and worked on the car.

Installed the starter, made sure all ground wires were clean and true. Installed the battery.

Tried to start the car...it wanted to turn over but felt almost like no fuel? or a drained battery.

I got the wife to head to CT and get them to test the battery (load test).

JU & Ziggy. I have not tested the resistence yet. As for the ECU caps I will look at them later today.

It does still sound like the battery isn't working.
Have you checked the alternator fuse, in the corner of the engine fuse box?
When that blows, or if the wiring is bad, the alt won't charge the battery. And when a dead battery freezes, it'll usually end up junk.
Were the other batteries you put in fully charged (just off a charger or out of another running car)?

No fuel or drained battery would not feel the same.
Drained battery would turn over very slowly.
No fuel would turn over at normal speed, just not fire..
Which was it?

If it turned over slowly, then you are chasing the right things with battery/starter/alternator/starter relay

If it turned over quickly, I would suspect something else. Maybe ECU, coil pack, or no fuel...pump fuse or ground, or???

Or if he lost fuel and never got a good power again, it'll continue to crank slow. It's a DSM, you can get I think a maximum of 7 things broken at once out of nowhere

Good Job Guys. Thank You.

It turns over slowly.
I just talked with the wife and CT said that it would take
1 1/2 hours to do a complete test on the battery.

I am heading to the garage to look at the alternator fuse.

Thank you all again, see what happens in 1 1/2 hour

^^^
A true DSMer's Valentine's day

I asked my wife if for valentines day she wanted sex or shopping.....

I am surprised how crowded the stores are today!!

FWIW, I have never seen a starter relay go. It's not a common issue.

Sometimes the simplest thing can look to be so complicated.

Holy Moly Batman!!!

After I installed everything back to spec.

The car starter like a champ!

Let it idle in the drive way for about 5 minutes with out any issues.
Drove down the street and BAMM car died!

After 20 minutes of deciding what I should do; I called CAA and place a call to tow me back home. Right after the CAA call the car started. With the hood up/open drove in reverse back to the house (benefits of living on Grimsby Mountain). Pulled out the multimeter and tested for volts...started at 14.07 and slowly went down to 13.88 and lower. Pushed it in the garage and left if there.

So there you have it.

Going to guess and say alternator not charging. If I am wrong someone please correct me...or if you have other comments.

Sounds like a voltage regulator to me! Your alternator seems to be poochy-fried.

Unless BOTH alternator AND battery are bad, why would car quit once running, though?

So, when the car died down the street, the starter wouldn't turn over again? Or turned over slowly? Or????

I think like Rob S says, you have several things happening at once here.

sorry, double post

When the car died, I tried to start it and the only thing that I heard was the starter engaging and disengaging.

After the battery had a little rest...got some juice and it fired up.

Going to get my 2nd alternator from my parents house and install this tomorrow morning and install the new battery as well.

Thank all of you for all your help and comments.
Thank you.

Glad you got it sort of running!
I'd agree that it could be the alternator, its wiring or its ground. It grounds through the bracket to the block, so clean that up too while you're in there.
It does seem to be doing something though. No connection of the alternator would have your battery draining from 12.7v down. Below 12v and it's dead.

What is the battery at now with the car off?
You should charge the battery with an overnight charger now, instead of trying to do it with the replacement alternator.

Sure sounds like the battery is bad. One other thing, though. IF the voltage regulator is screwed and it is OVERcharging the battery, it will screw up a new battery also..Might want to check that...

Just checked the battery voltage as the car sits in the garage...
12.54v

Sat around for 10 minutes and the volts have not changed.

I am not 100% sure, but that SHOULD be enough to turn the motor over at a healthy pace, no??

Did Crappy tire do a load test on the battery? What did they say?

The 12.54v was on the "New" Mitsu battery.

The one that CT had was one of their own batteries, non-spill type. That one read the following:

Rated CCA: 770
Measured CCA: 850
Voltage: 12.72

They said that this battery has no issues. I still have to install this once I replace the alternator tomorrow morning.


What I don't understand is that I had no battery light / engine light come on!

I hope that you guys/girls are not getting anoyed with me on this post LOL

Replaced the alternator & battery.

Proceeded to start the car; again slow starting.
Thought for a moment and it all came to me. Had a similar thing happen with the fuel pump was installed a few months ago.

Further testing found the connector that comes from the fuel pump and meets with the factory harness did not have continuity.
It was the yellow wire!
Pulled the yellow wire out from the black connector, bypass the connector and solder to the other yellow wire.

Tested for continuity and it all worked.
Cleaned up the work area and started the car...after 1 1/2 turns. Let it idle for about 5 minutes, shut if off, started again and same 1 1/2 turns it started. In about 20 minutes going to go back and see if it start, then go for a drive.

Cross me fingers that there is no other issue.

Good thinking and good for you for testing the hell out of everything instead of just throwing money at it. Hopefully you've seen the last of this problem.

I knew it was some kind of wire issue.

Glad you worked it out, and hope that's the end of it.

Update:

Well I thought I had it nipped in the butt! The electrical demon came back and got me again.

After exhausting almost everything, I had a feeling it was fuel related.

A little while back when I had the fuel pump problem it was giving me the same starting issue.

I removed the fuel pump assembly.
The bolt that the power wire connects to was not properly isolated!!! I had a rubber grommet on top and below the sending unit. I forgot to place it on the bolt that goes thru the sending unit. This was causing me the ISSUE.
Placed a rubber grommet on the bolt and re-installed everything.

Tested the car...it started right away. No sluggish starting at all. Ran the car for about 10 minutes in the driveway while I was cleaning up the garage. Drove the car for 10 minutes around the block. Worked very well. Shut the car off in the driveway, and came back to it after 1/2 hour. Started again with out any issues, drove around the block a few more times and still no issues.

I think I have it fixed.
We will see tomorrow morning on the way to work. Cross my fingers that it’s done.

Thank you all for your help and points.

Will