CLUTCH GAVE UP! TRANS WON'T SHIFT!

FML!!!

On my way home tonight, driving normally and coming through a turn, I'm starting out in 2nd gear and shifting into 3rd at about 3000 rpm, the car just stalled out on me and the clutch pedal suddenly became firm as if there was a brick behind it.

I'm still at a cruising speed of roughly 40km/h and in neutral, the car starts back up again (turning the ignition)..and pressing the clutch pedal is still VERY VERY STIFF!! like, to the point where I was able to fight the shifter into 2nd gear, barely into 3rd (using a lot of force) and want's to grind going into 4th..so I left it in 2nd gear for my drive home as I was only about 5 minutes away and didn't rev past 3.5k rpm..

the car runs fine, something has got to be mechanically wrong with the clutch fork I'm thinking, maybe the release/throwout bearing...?

I checked the fluid, it's full (obviously if the pedal is coming back up). I havn't gone underneath the car yet, which I may have to wait until tomorrow in the day light.

ANY IDEA'S YOU GUYS???? I kinda sorta need the car for work...but I can use my beater intrepid *UGGHH*

EDIT: It's a Bully Stage 3 and Fidanza 8lbs Flywheel.

I replaced the slave and master cylinder from ziggy with OE parts, bled the EFF out of the lines and adjusted my pedal assembly as per jafro...2 seasons ago. I've driven the car for almost 15,000 miles since...not a single issue.

Guess what.


Your tranny is coming off. Sounds like either the Belleville spring has failed or you've lost a spring on the clutch disc. Something is causing your clutch to not release.

Clutches do not just "FAIL" like that, there are signs that are tell tale of a clutch on its way out. If they do fail as you're describing, then something mechanically has fucked itself.

god I hope you're wrong but you're probably right. What should I start checking?

Is there something I should be looking at before dropping the trans?

Take the faker off, that's where I'd start, the carnage should be obvious

Spin the input shaft on the tranny by hand, it should move free. If so, proceed the flywheel/ clutch area and remove that

I may not have the time to tackle that until Monday..I'm going camping this weekend with the GF and a couple of friends.

I'm going to trace all the lines for kinks first, but I think they'll be fine..then work on dropping the trans. I think you guys are right.

IF and I MEAN IF!!! I'm doomed into buying a new trans...any recommendations as I plan to get the car in and around the 500-600hp range..? shep stage 4? it's only $2g's'ish...maybe it's too soon to be thinking about that. I just dropped almost a grand in a mishimoto cooling system. why not a new trans...?

I was being sarcastic in case you guys thought I was actually made of money lol

Do you have both dowels in when you installed your trans?

I forgot to put them in and ran my bully stage 3 clutch for about 10 000kms until a piece of the metal casting on the clutch broke off and lodged itself in between the pressure plate, clutch pedal was stupid hard.

If this just happened all of a suddden, your tranny will need to come out, you can try taking a peek in the tranny by pulling the little boot the clutch fork meets with the slave cylinder.

Great question, I don't remember. Not sure if that's the case but that's also a very good theory. I plan to drop it on Monday and inspect everything then. Ohhhh the joys of owning a dsm

I'm seriously starting to consider upgrading the trans anyway. This season just started and I'm already parking the car for probably a week or two...

Thanks for everyone's help so far.

My bet is you lost a spring in the clutch disk and it's now wedged between the clutch and the pressure plate fingers.

Is there or would there be a reason for that happening?

It's the way the springs are held in. The little tabs that hold the spring in place are too small or too thin and after a while the spring wears through or it breaks off.



There are several ways they are held in but this tab method seems the most common.

I concur. It has happened to me personally 4 times. Mostly on the cheaper Dynapak clutch kits. I have fixed alot of OEM Honda ones.

Mostly it cause due to the fact the disc damper is not strong enough to handle what you are throwing at it.

This seems like an easier fix than I was thinking this problem would have been. I'm going to start taking it out Monday morning (my day off) and hopefully have my answer at some point before the end of the day so I can order whatever part needs replacing from the zigster and get this thing back on the road next week..if possible.

I can't thank you guys enough for your insight! If there are any other "IDEA'S"..please don't hesitate to chime in here.

Hello

My bet would be a colapsed TOB. Busted Marcel Spring or Finger would still allow you to "row" into Gear.

Let us know what your findings.

Ghislain

Hey Ghis!

It's funny, last night when I made this post. I thought of a handful of people who would be knowledgeable enough and willing to help me out, and all of you have posted here!

Thanks for the support TEAM!

It's always a pleasure to help and feel flattered (sp?).

Just passing on some of my previous experience. Read: I have destroyed 2 TOB in past 5 years. Both failure resulted in similar problems.

Again; report your findings and I'll do my best to assist.

Ghislain

So I started a little late today. After a brunch with my sister, I got taking apart everything just before noon. I go to turn on my compressor (200 gallon 220v atlas capco) and it just died. ***FML*** i figured out using my multimeter that the capacitors blew. I found replacements but had to special order them, picking them up tomorrow. atleast they're cheap.

This is becoming frustrating. I've got absolutely everything off except the axels because the 32mm king nuts are pretty seized and without my impact gun, the breaker bar (rated to 350lbs) just won't crack them loose..I had my GF here help by holding the brake pedal down and well...I need comp. air.

I did however manage to have a look inside the bell housing through clutch fork hole and I pulled out A LOT of grease and hair looking material a long with small flakes of metal.

This is killing me to found out what's going on inside there and I may have to wait a day or so before I find out. We're approaching month end at work and that ties me up quite a bit.

anyway, I wanted to thank you all again for the help thus far. As I continue with this project, I'll keep updating this thread as I go. hopefully I can get it back on the road by the weekend.

Few other things I've noticed were "off"...shifter cable brackets were loose. And the bushings need replacing

F me you have a 200 gallon compressor? Are you suppling air to all of Ottawa?

The Fuzzy Hairy stuff is your clutch disc material coming apart.

Stick a punch in your rotor vents get a long pipe that fits over your breaker bar and jump on it. That should break em loose.

woah, little typo..that's a 100 gallon

shockingly, I'm running OE blank rotors But that was a good idea LOL

edit: you mean the vents inside the disc...? hrmmm..that may work

put your wheels back on, put the car on the ground, and try breaking the nut through the rim if the socket fits

Or put a pry bar between the studs, with the lugs butted up against the hub so you dont damage the threads. The bar should be long enough to touch the ground as a stop, Ive done this method many times.

Yuuuuup!!!

I've got them soaking in penetrating oil, I've tried heating them but I'm still turning the rotor with the callipers compressed.

I may try either of your methods later tonight, I'm just digesting a hearty meal of sloppy joes at the moment.

Digest away and make sure to let us know how things goes for ya!!!

For one of my axle nuts I threw impact guns and all sorts of breaker bar contraptions at it with no luck.

What finally got it was me jumping up and down with full force on the end of about 6' worth of 'breaker bar' (read pipe). That BARELY did it.

That's about (guessing I was probably ~180lb at the time)...1080FtLb of torque. Your impact gun probably ain't gonna do the trick

Yes punch in the vent against the caliper saddle. You may break the punch so use a good one. If you can't break it loose try cracking it tight then loose the bar in lugs could work aswell but is a little unsafer you could risk loosing a nut if the bar slips.

Hey Mike when you get in there post up some pictures we want to see what she looks like.

10-4

I just broke my nuts free and wire brushed the eff out of them. Stephen, the brake vent idea worked like a charm! Thanks buddy!

I'm stopping there for the night. I will get this trans off tomorrow. Can't wait to see what's going on in the BH.

No problem man. I skinned more then one knee with that trick. Even broke a few breaker bars on old Caravans tight bitch's.

I just replace the breaker bar about a month ago because I snapped the old one I had for probably 10 years. I thought I was getting close to snapping this one. It looked like I had a 50lbs muskie on my line. lol

Too late now but you can also pull the axles out without taking them out of the hubs. Just need to pull out the 3 bolts which hold the lower control arm and the compression arm, then the sway bar end links and then you can push the whole wheel hub far enough out to take the axles out of the tranny with ease. I pulled my motor/tranny this way without even taking the wheels off

Update:

I've had very little time to tackle this project due to work. I have however come across a few other probblems I'm fixing as I go.

1. My oil pan is leaking. I have a new replacement.
2. My tcase is leaking (wow eh)..its a slow leak but I havn't figured out where it's coming from. Seems like it may be a gasket closest to the trans.
3. I'm finally getting around to installing my moog adjustable upper control arms that are pcoated and have all the front suspension off.
4. My sway bar end links are on their way out. I need to order new ones. Zigggy!!!
5. It's a dsm. Come on. I'm a hardcore enthusiast. I'll never let her go, even if she blew up. I'd be mike petro'in my way into another 2gb awd anyway.

I've got the axels out, the tranny mounts off, I'm getting to the bell housing but I don't know if its my A.D.D. Or O.C.D..distracting me from getting it apart and inspecting it. I see another problem, I fix it. Fml!

End log.

Ha...

I have my eye on an AWD as we speak (board member) but I shall not mention anything here until after this weekend

G'luck with your car Mike

Thanks Mike, good luck to you too with your search. It's lucky we have such a good club of guys to help out.

Ah yes... My GSX used to leak oil EVERYWHERE! Turbo return, oil pan, front cover, valve cover, filler cap, etc.
Rebuilt it, and now it only seems to be a slow leak at the valve cover (have the spare, just too lazy...) and at the rear seal oddly enough, and I think I'm blowing some through my turbo...
Just figured I'll fix it all when I start doing my summer upgrade.

But to the point, let me know where you're getting your tranny from/rebuilt and ask if they sell the Evo 5th gears. I've been trying to track a set of those down for a while now. 2 birds, one stone type of thing.

I'm interested to hear what the issue is. Good luck.

Thanks Johnny!

Is it the EVO 5th gear that's used mostly for highway cruising?

Tis. Seeing as my GSX is the DD, a little less fuel on the highway is always welcomed. 10% taller I think is the spec and you don't even have to drop the tranny to swap it

can i swap it to a 1g or is the ratio not worth it? I have swapped shorter gears on alot of NSX's. But a taller 5 would be nice.

So I found the culprit. It was the Throwout Bearing. Have a look!

Holy easy fix you lucky SOB!

HAHAHA thanks Rob! I'm still working at all the other problem areas, it's not much but time consuming to say the least. The input shaft seal on the tcase is cracked and leaking. Also managed to slightly tear the axle seal with my pry bar on the passenger side. I havn't had much time to inspect the removal and replacement of that yet but I'm sure it can't be that difficult.

Ziggy is about to get a pretty massive order from me this week, I've decided it's time to install my GT35R. I'll start a new thread with that, as I may require some of your guys help

AND THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE!!! I PROBABLY WOUlDN'T STILL OWN THIS CAR IF IT WASN'T FOR THE GUYS HERE ON THIS BOARD AND THEIR WISDOM/KNOWLEDGE!

Ha! ya...."Time consuming"...., yer preaching to the choir brotha

Bryan, this one is for you






Carbon build up on the bottom of the block. Any idea's on how to clean this off? Seafoam and wire brush?



Here's a pic of my spare long block with the pan off. clean!


Notice there's about 1-2mm of play in the output shaft, is this normal? (I realise this BH is filthy, I'll get to that this weekend lol.

Cool! I like to see pictures and then I try to piece together how things go together. I have yet to deal with transmission issues or be present while someone is either removing or replacing theirs so it's all new to me. When I first got my car one of my springs came out too, sometimes could shift, sometimes not, but at the time I was home so I had a garage do it.

As for cleanup, I have heard that emery cloth is the way to go, sea foam will help a lot too! For all the times I have gotten wires stuck in me I would be worried that some would be left behind, maybe that isn't an issue with a brush though.

here's a better pic of where I'm at. Note the mirror on my valve cover was for my lines of cocaine, I couldn't have got the job done without it hahahah JK

At this point you probably should have just pulled the motor tranny out, probably would have been easier/faster

I agree!

For clean up use Air intake cleaner I am sure your parts depot has many cans or for the tough sh!t get some of that engine top cleaner we used to use on RSX's. If your parts depot doesnt know the part number let me know I'll get it from mine for you. But with that sh!t you want a mask not a cheap shitty one either that stuff will put you on your ass.

What Clutch you running ?

bully stage 3 + fidanza 8lbs

So question you guys, do I need to measure the step height on my FW to gauge how much I should shim the pball? or is there another way to determine whether or not I should shim (while the tranny is off - keep that in mind lol)

I've read through this; http://teamrip.com/when_why_and_how_to_shim_pivot_ball_info.html

and many other posts on why/how to's..

I'm starting my re-assembly tomorrow and would like to figure this out before.

Thanks in advance!

I've pretty well decided to mount the tranny, using a new pball, fork, tbo, and clip, seeing where the fork lands in reference to the boot, and if it looks like it needs shimming, I will add one washer. Probably won't need to shim and if I do, maybe one small washer...?

obviously this is a first for me so any guidance here is appreciated.

When I did my trans with its new pball and fork the shift point was greatly changed for the better. As it states many times on RTM these are 10-20 years old things bend. I didnt have to shim mine though I was very concerned as its a hell of a lot easier once its out on the ground.

I shimmed mine with one thin washer, just to be on the safe side considering the age of the parts, it turned out to be perfect.

If you look closely to the picture I took where I'm holding the pooched throwout bearing, you can see the pball was already shimmed. I'm a little embarassed I didn't realise it was before I posted that last message LOL

I'm tackling like 10 projects at the same time. I've got all the new oem clutch parts in. Just focusing on getting the new turbo setup in at the moment. Finally assembled my MVR and got the new prothane mounts in. Had to customize the dipstick today. That's was about it for the day. My intrepid's rad blew and now I'm having to replace it tomorrow morning...fml!

Honestly, to clean that crap off I just used WD40 and a couple rags. Worked great, cheap, and very little scrubbing was required. I'm not sure about the carbon build up. I imagine you'd need something that's a little "hungrier" for crap.

I never even knew you could shim the ball. Just got lucky I guess.

The worst part about doing tranny work is getting the damn thing realigned. Maybe it's just me but I've NEVER had luck getting it to align in the first 20 mins of fiddling with it.

Keep the progress up Mike! I'm hoping to see it on the road just once since I got those tires off of you Perhaps a meet of some sort?!

I've always used a new pivot & fork in the past & haven't had any issues. With that being said, when I bought a new TRE tranny, it did have one shim installed behind the pivot (new pivot & fork obviously). I left the shim in, ran with two different clutches since & both times fork position was good.

I bought an extended slave push rod which I won't have a use for. It was $15. If anyone can make use of it, pm me and you can have it $15 shipped.

Notice there's about 1-2mm of play in the output shaft, is this normal? (I realise this BH is filthy, I'll get to that this weekend lol.
[/quote]

Yep.

Im also running with a washer, works perfect.

Always a good idea to change the little essentials that cause big headaches

This pic was taken about a week or so ago, I'm way past the clutch parts. I'm now installing my afpr, fuelab filter, pte 880cc's, the 35r and some suspension components. I only ever have time to work on my car sunday's and some monday's..which is a REAL PITA! as I'm still waiting on some parts that are ordered to come in. I'll keep posting pics as I make progress.

Try getting to work on your car only once a month!

Your progress is excellent. Keep at it.

Looks really good Mike!

Thanks for the kind words you guys! It's very motivating

That clean up made a huge difference, everything looks good Mike! Loving the pictures!

Thanks Bryan!

Varsol, brake clean, LOTS OF ELBOW GREASE and my 3200psi gas pressure washer did the trick

in these pics, I've intalled the 880's and cleaned up the fuel rail with my wire brush bench grinder. Attached the -6an braided line's for fitment of both the fuelab filter and the aeromotive a1000 afpr. I'm waiting on some parts to complete this task, but figured I'd post it up. Thanks to Alex, he's given me the idea to fab a bracket to mount the afpr to and hopefully, it will come out clean looking.

How did you end up mounting the afpr?
Now get it on the road so we can go cruising!