crank no start!

Not much info to give you at the moment , i tried to start the car this morning cranked pretty hard 5 or 6 timesbut wouldnt start not even a cough or splutter, she sat for a few weeks but went for a good drive yesterday.
1gb 1992 tsi fwd.
What should i check first? Im at work now so i will have to look when i get home.

What's your coolant ratio? Is the temperature sensor good? If not that will cause a long start.

First see if you have spark and fuel.

It got to about -20 with the wind chill last night, would frozen coolant stop it starting? My bets are on the sensor only because when i first got it the start was erratic and i had to give it a small amount of gas otherwise it would stall, thoughts on that?

Could be a quick resistance test can confirm the sensor. Could also be wiring at sensor. Do you have anything to log with?

Yeah that sounds like my car when my sensor's wires were bad. Frozen coolant shouldn't stop it from starting but it would definitely make it hard to start, especially if your waterpump can't turn.

What reading should i get with the sensor?

At 32°F (0°C) 5.9K Ohms

At 68°F (20°C) 2.5K Ohms

At 104°F (40°C) 1.1K Ohms

At 176°F (80°C) 300 Ohms

Just a side note, inorganic objects are not affected by "wind chill".

LOL I was going to mention that too! Depending on how fast it might affect your driving though!!

Are You trying say My Talon isn't alive? No but seriously he is correct. But still -15 makes lots of cars not wanna start.

Lol im not used to the way you describe cold temperatures i'm from England where it gets to -5 lol,I assumed wind chill was how cold it gets when the wind is hitting something, you know how it feels colder when your facing the wind compared to it being still.

Anyways back to point, how loud are our fuels pumps can you usually hear them prime once you turn the key?
Just trying to rule a few things out so im out in the cold as little as possible when i get home.

The fuel pumps do not prime when you turn the key on.

You also won't be able to hear it while you are idling, unless it has been replaced with a noisier one. Pull a spark plug to check spark then smell each of the cylinders after checking spark as the fuel will just be sitting in there.

Will do figures i just got the brakes fixed Sunday maybe she just wants to hibernate :'(

Jesus...

It started yesterday, but didn't start today right?

How is the battery voltage? Did you know your battery can drop down to as little as 9V when cranking? If you tried cranking it 5 or 6 times, good bet the battery is low on juice.

Try boosting it.

Funny story to go along with this.

A local drifter was drifting at Shannonville when all of a sudden his car lost power, sputtered, kaffed and died. The guys spent 2 hours swapping parts, try this try that.

It ran out of gas.

Stop over thinking it. Chances are the plugs are soaked from all the excess fuel. Pull them out, let them dry, charge the battery and try again.

It was cold out, the ECU dumps fuel like a mother fracker. If your car ran like sh!t when it was warm out, it's going to be a bitch to start when its cold.

Yeah started first time after been left for 2 weeks with zero hesitation, i even gave it a "dashboard pat".
The battery felt good cranked the starter and turned the engine over 5 or 6 times before i stopped trying, but I will check the voltage.

The only machine that is alive is Johnny 5!

I have nothing else to add to this as Ryan, Bryan, and Stephen have covered a lot if not all possible points.

I just went thru this an hour ago. car would start fine yesterday.... Today just cranking! Its your coolant sensor. I unpluged mine and plugged in one I had sitting on the bench from a part out.. Started right up. So I swapped the sensors. runs fine now.

Is it the top one or bottom one.

The one on top is for the A/c. theres 2 on the bottom.. its the one with 2 wires. You can get at it with a 17inch line wrench or the open end of a normal wrench...Dont use the box end of a normal wrench... it may round it off.

I dont think you can deffinetaly say it is the coolant temp sensor without actually testing it. Jay was lucky he had a spare one but to just purchase a sensor in hope it will fix your problem is kinda silly.

I am not saying it isn't the sensor, but how do you know. No start diagnoses it pretty straight forward. If it is flooded the plugs will be wet with fuel then you have no spark or bad fuel control ie.. sensor input or leaky injector or bad ecm could even be poor compression but doubtfull on that one( not saying it is those but basic need to be checked first)

If you have dry plugs it is a fuel issue.

Unfortunately for you it is bloody cold outside.

Ya but a coolant sensor is only about 20 bucks and if you plan on owning the car for several years you will need one eventually. I would start with that first. Those other possabilties could be the problem , but they all usually slowly get bad. Coolant sensor just dies...especially when its really cold.

If you check.. most dsm posts looking for no start fixes end up being coolant sensors.

Do not ever throw money at a problem until you diagnose it. Just because one thing worked for one person doesn't mean it will for another.

Case in point:

I was an apprentice at the time, but one mechanic at a shop I worked at had a truck come in with boost problems. He, based on his prior experience, figured the turbo was done. We ordered the turbo and I installed it. The turbo did not fix the problem. After doing diagnostics on the truck, and trying a few things to rule out problems, it turned out to be a clogged muffler.

Experience would tell you that you diagnose and rule out suspicions before throwing money and replacing parts willy nilly to try and fix a problem.

Not saying you are wrong Jay, but before throwing money at it to fix it and replacing sensors that may not need to be replaced, it's best to diagnose (in this case, using an Ohmmeter) the sensor. If the sensor is to blame, then perfect, but if not, you cannot return electronic components once installed, period. You've just wasted $20 on a sensor (depending on brand).

I had the same issue happen to me in Sudbury. I cranked and cranked and nothing. It was -25 outside and my car was stock right to the airbox. It was fracking cold outside, and even after trying to boost it, it would not start. I fouled the plugs from soaking them in fuel. These cars when cold DUMP fuel into the cylinders, almost 20% more than a decently warm start. With a weak battery, old plugs, weak wires, it is EASY to foul plugs in these cars.

The end result was new plugs and a warmer day, it ran like a champ.

My sensor is still factory, and going strong.

My temp sensors is 22 years old and still going strong.

Sound like it wasnt fixed if you needed the warm day to start.

To start diognosing a bad temp sensor.. you have to remove it and place it in differant tempuratures and record the readings. And hope yer doing it right. Or just buy ye dam sensor and swap it. either way if it starts problem fixed.. if it dosent.. well you know your temp sensor is good. DSM stands for something in the world of stick with what works... and the cts IS the most common reason for dsm problems. While yer at it check yer plugs for wetness.

Ryan.. a beer says im right... Steve Im in kitchener all the time.. same deal! you dont need to be a licenced mechanic to know how to fix cars!

You don't need to remove it to test it, If ambient temp is a certain value and your resistance is not in spec, it fails. If you can't ohm out a 2 pin sensor you really shouldn't be working on your car in the first place.

I am not saying you need to be a tech to fix your car but you need to test before replacement.

If your every in Kitchener come by for a beer I would love to meet another DSM'er you could probably teach me lots of things.

Check the wires if they aren't good then fix them, if that doesn't work then I would do the sensor replacement.

Steve we should get together and take pics of our cars since there identical!

I think everyone is missing the point of why spend money trying to diagnose when diagnosing the right problem will save you money.

A while back, I thought I had a sticky tstat. I didn't go out and spend the $13 replacing it, I tested it in boiling water and it opened and closed normally.

Turned out I had a pin hole in a water line coming off the throttle body. And I had spare hose, so that fix was free.

Just another "case in point"...(I like that term, I may steal that )

Almost identical. Mine is stick. Anytime man. I also want your interior when you sell her.

No way man thats my cheasy 80s porn interior! As some one once called it!

sorry back on topic.. Kirk.. check your plugs too see there wet! If they are not then it may be your fuel pump that is dead. If your plugs are wet(after cranking it over) Then go buy a coolant temp sensor. Sometimes simplicity is worth 20 bucks. If you swap the sensor and it still dosent start, ill buy the sensor off you. I need one for spring anyway.

I had a look today got cold, swore at it went inside. My buddy is starting the part out on his TSI this weekend and since I'm buying the shell (AWD :)) I can have my pick of non aftermarket stuff so I can diagnose via replacing stuff.
After cranking a few times should I be able to smell fuel just by removing the spark plug lead, or is it generally sealed in by the plug.
I'm not being lazy BTW but it really is too cold, even for a thick skinned Brit.

So your pump is working. Well if you flood you motor.. you will smell gas. Keep that in mind that the more you crank it over the more it dumps gas into the oil. Proll a good idea to change the oil when you get it running.

I couldn't smell gas but all I did was remove the plug lead for a quick whiff after cranking it 4-5 times.
Hopefully tomorrow is a little bit warmer but we will see.

What part of England are you from? I know it is off topic but I am first gen canadian my father was born in Croydon and alot of his family is still there. Don't be shy to test anything there are alot guys here although with different opinions that can lead you in the right direction.

No, you will not smell fuel by removing the plug lead. If you can smell fuel by removing the plug lead, you'd also be losing compression.

Someone stole your spark plugs

The gas smell in your spark plug holes may be from cranking it so much that youve got a good mix of gas in your oil now and its seeping thru the valve cover gasket.

Jay your rambling now. Kirk said he could not smell fuel. Damn you might owe Ryan that Beer

im from Leeds, up north.

All he did was take the plug boot off, you won't smell fuel like that. Pull the plug to see.

Oh oopsi read it as he did smell gas when he did that. what ever I still hold my ground.

Second thought... dont go buy that sensor... its 100 bucks a Mitsubishi!

Under $30. for an aftermarket one, and OEM should be under $65. You must be shopping in the wrong places

Ok I hate you guys!

After driving around all day, It dosent start this morning.
!

Went to remove the connector from the cts... it brock! May be the problem but I fixed it wit a 2g pigtail and sensor.

Still no start........
Checked plugs.. dry..

Took return hose off fuel rail, then attatched a hose to a bucket. Cranked it over. Nothing!

So I jumped the fuel pump test connector and got dribbles. Is that normal? I expected more.

What does your FUEL Gauge say? You should get full pressure if the pump is running.

What are the temperatures like there? How about some gas line antifreeze?

Says im got a 1/4 tank.. I listened and after canking it.. I dont hear he relay shut off. So later im gonna swap out the mpi relay since i have about ten of em.

Ziggy It was -27 this morning when she tried tostart it.
.

shot in the dark.. but could one use the a/c temp sensor in the thermostate housing for the ecu? just swap the pigtail wires? my ac dont work anyway.

Is it the same resistance?

If you aren't getting fuel while the pump is running, I suspect a (frozen) blockage...

No the A/C switch is just a switch on/off at a certain temp.

ok maybe thats my problem.. I used a coolant sensor with a white plastic area. It prolly is the ac sensor. The sensor I put in yesterday fell apart when I tried to fix the pigtail.

Eitherway Kirk.. I hope yer reading all this as you should be doing this aswell.

Just waiting for the weather to warm up.

Ya me too .. its gonna be plus 3 next week. Part source sells the proper sensor for 40.

Yeah it is too flipping cold right now. I got stuck outside on 2 no starts today. Only my left hand has defrosted so far.

So does that mean I get a beer?

My car is always garaged park and I usually don't leave her alone for too long if it's outside. Cold is just a mind set, I was just outside it's not that bad!

Ryan .. not yet lol. We havent ruled out the sensor in Kirks car. And mine could be the sensor as I replaced it with a AC sensor.


Byan . I would have her parked in the garage but theres a 2g in there.

Jay I thought you didnt have fuel. Sensor wont do that.

As for cold being a mindset thats silly talk.

Ok frack you guys and your...

Anyway.. I found another 1g cts and swapped it back in. and after a bit of rough cranks it fired right up. Guess tring to use a a/c temp switch will confuse yer ec so bad.. it wont send any fuel. Plus while it was running it still dribbled out the hose i had on the fuel rail return after the regulator.

Unless Kirk has anymore input to provide to this thread, I think we're on hold until we hear from him.

So i had a look tonight and im not sure what to make of it, i cranked it a fee times pulled the plug and it seemed dry there was a faint whiff of fuel but not what i should be smelling, and i couldnt see spark either, i plugged a spark plug in to one of the leads and sat it on the manifold, even if the battery is going there should be a faint spark right?

As long as metal of the plug was grounded you should get spark. You could use a jumper wire to ground it or get a buddy to hold it tight to metal he may get a slight shock but it wont really hurt him

Just a thought guys, in my earlier posts i explained how i couldnt hear my fuel pump when i turned the key, and was promptly told i shouldnt hear it, what else could i have been been hearing? Or more to the point what should i be hearing because it is too quiet im sure i used to hear something.

You should here your MPI relay click (Behind the Radio) then as you crank it should click again to turn on the pump.and a few other relays underhood will cycle aswell.

Do you get a check engine light on when you have the key in the on position???

Yeah see i can't recall hearing that I'll check,for the cel later.
Thanks for the help guys and if my posts are a bit jumbled and messy, im sleep deprive(baby) and with it been so coldd im trying to 10min diagnose lol.

So kirk.. hows it going? I may have to suggest diognosing the sensor first. ONLY cause the sensor is real expensive. I had a couple laying around plus I have a yoor wreckers near me that I can get them cheap. Swapping them is easier for me.

You may wanna try some fuel line antifreeze aswell.

Ok so i have no check engine light when i turn the key, gotta be ecu right?

does it start? what have you done to it? Now that its warmer.. Take a 12v jumper to the fuel pump test connector to see if your pump works. If it does then crank the motor over with the key. If it dosent start listen for the click under your dash. if it dosent click then its the mpi relay. if it does click then it may be frozen fuel lines. But I would def check the cts cause if it dosent start today.. then that might be your problem.

Unless a mouse chewed your wires. It does happen.

Could be mpi relay or ecm. How are your multimeter skills?

Time is my problem at the moment, as of Monday i have a car to steal parts from, what should i start with? There is no clicking with the turn of the key btw.

The chances of it being the MPI relay are slim.

If you have no CEL, it could be due to the following:

MPI FUSE
Burnt out CEL bulb
Failed ECU
Failed MPI Relay

Check them in that order.

Hurry up and fix it so Jay can prove to the mechanics if he's right or not, it's very important to him.

Im just trying to help.. with an idea that helped me. you guys challenged my theory..

Now that you have a parts car.. if you got the cts.. swap it. Dont bother taking yours out.. just take the parts car sensor and plug it into your cars harness and start the car. Try the fuel pump test conector and listen for the pump to come on..let us know if you hear it hum.. Then swap the mpi relay. Then maybe swap ecus if you can.

You can try swapping ECMs or MPIs. Althought Jays theory on a ECT is valid for an engine not starting or long cranking. It doesn't make sense for no CEL or fuel. Most probably the ECM caps have leaked and damaged the board....you should still test it.

Will toy these asap thanks for all the help it will take a while but ill get all these tested as soon as i can.

Right I grabbed the ecu and the black relay sitting behind the radio, will swap them out tomorrow hopefully that will fix if not rule out them as problems.

It was the ECU, plugged the other one and she fired on the first turn, thanks for all your help guys couldn't have done it without yas!!!

Glad you got her fixed.

Were the caps leaking?

Good call!!! I guess I get a free beer.

Yaya.. Ill meet ya at heros next time your there lol.

I haven't opened it up yet but i will and then fix it as a spare.