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Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: brendan warwick] #291202
February 16, 2009 05:07 pm UTC
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Rob Strelecki Offline

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I'd do all you said, and then get it idling properly with regular gas, then a highway run and straight on to the rollers.

Exhaust leaks around the O2 sensor could make you rich, but I don't think it would be this bad.

Gaskets are MD181032, MD124675 & MB687002 - did you try Ziggy?

Crappy tire sells Pemratex UltraCopper.
I wouldn't bother using just RTV. You'd have to get rid of the old gaskets and everyting will be apart so you might as well do it right with gaskets.


Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: Rob Strelecki] #291578
February 21, 2009 01:25 pm UTC
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I had a car fail because of low idle rpms, fixed it by adjusting the base idle set screw and it passed, not only did it just pass but the HC numbers were close to zero. Huge improvement.

Next I had another car that failed emissions testing, changed the spark plugs and fresh new engine oil change and there was a dramatic improvement at the next emission test (passed as well). There was no hint of poor idle or anything to indicate the spark plugs were bad, but they were easy to change and cheap to replace.


Inventor, Hacker, Creator of LCD Boost controller, TFT Logger, OBD1 -> Can Bus converter (Torque!)
Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: Antero Jussila] #293732
March 19, 2009 09:25 pm UTC
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Ok, so I took it in again today only to fail again here are the new results

2500rpm
hc limit-200 reading-34 -PASS
co% limit-1.00 reading-0.01 -PASS

Idle
hc limit-200 reading-305 -FAIL
co% limit-1.00 reading-0.00 -PASS

I ajusted the first knob the maf-t 2 clicks to the left, the second 1 to the left, and the third 1 click to the left, I also changed the plug wires, egr, double checked the timing, boost leak tested it I noticed that around 30psi it would start to leak slowly could this be the problem. My engine light was also on during the test, which could have been one of two codes, O2 or tps. Please fill me in on what it might be.


1998 tsi awd, some mods
1996 honda civic B20
2003 Honda Accord
1992 tsi fwd partout

Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: brendan warwick] #293766
March 20, 2009 03:33 am UTC
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Ju Chen Offline
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do you have access to a scanner? or even better, one that can view live data.

imo, the cat and O2 sensors would be the first thing I look at if I fail HC by that much.

in your case, it's time to check the O2 sensor.


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'95 TSi AWD - Sold
Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: Ju Chen] #293789
March 20, 2009 01:34 pm UTC
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No, I have the logger cable for a laptop, but lent my laptop out and its not looking like I will get it back. I have the maf-t, and from what I can tell, HC= rich. So can I just turn the idle and mid knobs to the right a lick or two? To lean it out.

Last edited by brendan warwick; March 20, 2009 01:39 pm UTC.

1998 tsi awd, some mods
1996 honda civic B20
2003 Honda Accord
1992 tsi fwd partout

Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: brendan warwick] #293792
March 20, 2009 02:39 pm UTC
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Ju Chen Offline
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never played with a maf-t before so not too sure.

but if you can lean out idle some, theoretically that "should" do it.

keep in mind that if your O2 is working and reading, leaning out the maf-t might not do you any good as your ECU will just tune it right back.

surest way is to take a look at your O2 readings, if it's even working. that should take most of the guess work out.


'02 BMW ///M3
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Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: Ju Chen] #293899
March 21, 2009 04:02 am UTC
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As long as you have the compression within spec you should pass regardless of whether you run 89 or 94. what are your compression readings?
My car passed the pipe test without the egr. The cat was present.
I think high HC could also be unburnt fuel.

try retarding the timing in order to squeeze by, but there are no proper band-aid solutions.

if you are not as efficient as you could be, you are losing power too. frown

Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: Cesar Ito] #293920
March 21, 2009 04:14 pm UTC
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Let's keep this simple...

Higher HC at idle just means you have some extra unburnt fuel flying out the exhaust.

Make sure the car is completely warmed up... take it for a good steady spin. Don't accelerate to hard or to often, but drive atleast 15km then go for the test.

Steps to take before you go....

1.)You need to install new spark plugs BPR6ES and gap them to proper specs 0.28.

2.)Raise your idle to 1000-1150 rpm this just below the 1200rpm limit.

3.) Install a stock MAF sensor for the test unless you can properly tune the maf-t.

4. Make sure your base timing is correct (with a timing light)

Then if the above doesn't work you can always

run lower octane gas for the test.. or and even slightly advance timing by 0.5-1 degree giving you a leaner burn. However your NOx might increase slighty.


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Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: James Karban] #293923
March 21, 2009 04:31 pm UTC
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Thanks guys

1.)You need to install new spark plugs BPR6ES and gap them to proper specs 0.28.
- Just did before the first test, I will pull and re-check the gap and condition though(might just get a new set as I need a recipt for the $17 re-test)

2.)Raise your idle to 1000-1150 rpm this just below the 1200rpm limit.
- Just did before the re-test

3.) Install a stock MAF sensor for the test unless you can properly tune the maf-t.
- Don't have one, but pretty sure I got it tuned good for the test

4. Make sure your base timing is correct (with a timing light)
- Just did before the re-test

I will also check the compression, but I'm sure its good. I also am trying to find a cheaper than new o2 in the for sale fourm lol, as the one in there has been rewired from my 2g n/t :S. I'm also wondering if my TPS being out of ajusment could be causing these conditions at idle.



1998 tsi awd, some mods
1996 honda civic B20
2003 Honda Accord
1992 tsi fwd partout

Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: brendan warwick] #294149
March 24, 2009 06:05 pm UTC
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Here are the reading from a snap on computer, I know my o2 is dead and my TPS has a broken wire almost cut right through, but how does everything else look. I had my friend who use to be a e-tester set it up, he said it should pass, but I am second guessing it, as the exhaust smokes for a little bit on start up.
2500rpm
[Linked Image]

Idle
[Linked Image]

Last edited by brendan warwick; March 24, 2009 06:15 pm UTC.

1998 tsi awd, some mods
1996 honda civic B20
2003 Honda Accord
1992 tsi fwd partout

Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: brendan warwick] #294155
March 24, 2009 08:27 pm UTC
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Fix the TPS wire, it is an essential part of the entire throttle system and you make sure you calibrate it. Can't remember of the top of my head what the tps volts should be at idle but double check on vfaq.

Last edited by James Karban; March 24, 2009 08:27 pm UTC.

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I Failed Emission Any possible solutions? #294527
March 29, 2009 12:22 am UTC
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Hey i really need to know what i can fix so that i can pass the next emission test. I went today and i failed the idle part of the test. The HC ppm read 348 and the limit is 200.
The guy that did it for me said it might be miss firing. On the screen it looked as if the idle was jumping.
So bascily high HC at idel.. how can i fix this?


Burgundy '91 TSi- 3" turbo back,big 16g,adjKYBs,FMIC,RC 550's, 255Lph, Rebuilt engine,ect
Re: I Failed Emission Any possible solutions? [Re: Paul Bebnowski] #294535
March 29, 2009 02:07 am UTC
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Try searching "methanol". It's a quick solution if you just want to pass and then worry about the issues later.

I would do the spark plugs and wires and then throw in some methanol in the tank. I can't remember the mixture, but it works.

I use it because I don't have a cat on my car. You'll get a funny idle until your car warms up.


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"Help" with emissions test #294575
March 29, 2009 09:11 pm UTC
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So, I don't think my car is going to pass without an EGR valve considering of how bad I failed last time (high NOX). I'm going for a re-test next week sometime, after fixing a major boost leak/new oil change/new spark plugs and bringing back the timing a tad.

My shop had someone who could "help" but is no longer able to.

I need my car to be on the road by the end of next week and this e-test is the only thing stopping it from happening.

If you know anyone, please PM me.


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Re: "Help" with emissions test [Re: Mike Petro] #294604
March 30, 2009 01:47 am UTC
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NOX is measured only at idle if I remember correctly.

Would it work if you richen idle up a little bit? but without going over so you would fail HC.

not sure if that'll work, just an idea.


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Re: "Help" with emissions test [Re: Ju Chen] #294605
March 30, 2009 01:49 am UTC
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How would I go about doing that?


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Re: "Help" with emissions test [Re: Mike Petro] #294608
March 30, 2009 02:01 am UTC
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Ryan Laliberte Offline OP

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NOx is measured at Cruise, this is only when your EGR opens.

Originally Posted by Tim Grech - Emissions 101

EGR SYSTEM
The EGR is another system which many people eliminate. Now, other then dirtying up the intake manifold with a little extra carbon, the EGR does not affect the performance of the car in any way. It’s closed at WOT and idle. It’s only open at partial throttle w/ no boost to be precise. If you are doing your emissions and you are failing miserably in the NOx department (FWD only), your EGR is not functioning correctly. To understand this, you have to understand that NOx is not created by the burn of the motor but by the heat of the motor. At around 2500 degrees F, nitrogen and oxygen in the air effectively combine to create NOx, a harmful gas. The EGR re-circulates inert exhaust gases back into the intake to cool down the hot burn and reduce the NOx being formed.


If you have link, you can richen up your fuel sliders at the RPM where they test at (About 2500ish) to dump a little more fuel so it cools your burn.


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Re: "Help" with emissions test [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #294612
March 30, 2009 02:31 am UTC
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Originally Posted by Ryan Laliberte
NOx is measured at Cruise, this is only when your EGR opens.

Originally Posted by Tim Grech - Emissions 101

EGR SYSTEM
The EGR is another system which many people eliminate. Now, other then dirtying up the intake manifold with a little extra carbon, the EGR does not affect the performance of the car in any way. It’s closed at WOT and idle. It’s only open at partial throttle w/ no boost to be precise. If you are doing your emissions and you are failing miserably in the NOx department (FWD only), your EGR is not functioning correctly. To understand this, you have to understand that NOx is not created by the burn of the motor but by the heat of the motor. At around 2500 degrees F, nitrogen and oxygen in the air effectively combine to create NOx, a harmful gas. The EGR re-circulates inert exhaust gases back into the intake to cool down the hot burn and reduce the NOx being formed.


If you have link, you can richen up your fuel sliders at the RPM where they test at (About 2500ish) to dump a little more fuel so it cools your burn.


If you have DSMLink, no you can't do this. Fuel sliders are for open loop tuning only & the car won't be in open loop when doing an etest (or at cruise). It will be in closed loop, which gets feedbacks from the O2 sensor, so even if you were to richen things up, the ecu would just try & compensate to get your trims back inline. Only way to richen it up would be to add so much fuel that the ecu can no longer compensate but that will cause other issues (throw a CEL, probably not pass other portions of the test).

The way to do it with link would be to reduce your timing sliders at the specific test rpms. As the timing sliders are always in effect.


98 Eclipse GSX DSM82HTA
Re: "Help" with emissions test [Re: Daren Peacock] #294616
March 30, 2009 02:45 am UTC
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Ryan Laliberte Offline OP

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Fack... you're right Darren. Gotta slow down on the Alexander Keiths....

Retarding timing will cause an incomplete burn, this will also up your HC, so you'll have to find the middle point.

Thanks Darren!


AWDAuto
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FP Green HTA - 11.42/123
Team Pump Gas and Meth
RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts

"Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim Carrey
Re: I Failed Emission Any possible solutions? [Re: Mike Palome] #294624
March 30, 2009 03:37 am UTC
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hey i was wondering if that stuff from canadian tire works, it guarantees the car will pass.. is that the same stuff?


Burgundy '91 TSi- 3" turbo back,big 16g,adjKYBs,FMIC,RC 550's, 255Lph, Rebuilt engine,ect
Re: "Help" with emissions test [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #294639
March 30, 2009 02:02 pm UTC
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Alright cool, thanks guys.

I'll take it for the test early this week to see if there was any improvement and post up the results.


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Emissions Test - Merged. #294744
March 31, 2009 01:32 am UTC
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Well, it seems we have a lot of emissions questions regarding passing, results, etc so we have decided to make a merged thread about these kinds of questions.

From now on, all emissions related questions/topics go here. This thread has been stickied.

If you have problems with emissions testing, please read through the thread first, your answer may lay inside.



AWDAuto
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FP Green HTA - 11.42/123
Team Pump Gas and Meth
RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts

"Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim Carrey
Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #294782
March 31, 2009 06:15 pm UTC
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Well, I failed my last one on Friday, so went over the car again, and found a torn coupler, go figure it happend after the boost leak test :S. So I am going again in a bit, I think it should be good today, before this I never failed a e-test, and this is the eighth dsm that I have done lol.

Last edited by brendan warwick; March 31, 2009 06:16 pm UTC.

1998 tsi awd, some mods
1996 honda civic B20
2003 Honda Accord
1992 tsi fwd partout

Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: brendan warwick] #294812
April 01, 2009 12:40 am UTC
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brendan warwick Offline
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PASSED!!!


1998 tsi awd, some mods
1996 honda civic B20
2003 Honda Accord
1992 tsi fwd partout

Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: brendan warwick] #294813
April 01, 2009 12:45 am UTC
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Congrats. Hopefully I can say the same smile


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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Mike Petro] #294814
April 01, 2009 12:51 am UTC
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Yeah thanks man, Good luck with yours!


1998 tsi awd, some mods
1996 honda civic B20
2003 Honda Accord
1992 tsi fwd partout

Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: brendan warwick] #294997
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Retarded my timing to -5 across the board. It's at the shop now after driving it around for a bit. Everyone was telling me to drive it around before the test to make sure the cat was extremely hot, although my shop said I shouldn't have done that as that would just make my NOx higher? .. what is true?

I should have my results before 11am


'15 VW GTI Autobahn
'10 Mitsubishi EVO GSR - SOLD
'97 Eclipse Spyder - RIP. Oct 1/11
Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Mike Petro] #295002
April 03, 2009 02:22 pm UTC
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I PASSED!!!!!

I haven't gotten the paper yet, but I got a call from my shop saying I passed. SO pumped lol.

My NOx was at 95, limit was 500 or something.
Previous test, my NOx was at 1900


'15 VW GTI Autobahn
'10 Mitsubishi EVO GSR - SOLD
'97 Eclipse Spyder - RIP. Oct 1/11
Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Mike Petro] #295006
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the shop is right about the Nox,

high NOx is indicative of other problems... such as running to lean or a bad cat. In your case I would you say your car was running way to lean before.


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---Sold----
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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: James Karban] #295008
April 03, 2009 02:53 pm UTC
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[Linked Image]


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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Mike Petro] #295009
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Should I be putting my timing back to +5?


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E-Test from hell #318582
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Any advice would be greatly appreciated, i took the wifes 94 non turbo talon in for an e test

Results from 1st on


limit reading
hc ppm 57 146
co% .32 .56
no ppm 421 2414

After the test i put on a new cat, new o2 sensor,new air filter,new plugs and wires,the oil was changed before the test

results from 2nd test
limit reading
hc ppm 57 62
co% .32 .03 pass
no ppm 421 2138

On both tests the idle part of the test passed, anyone out there give some thought as to what the hell is going on thanks



Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Michael Muir] #318584
November 18, 2009 06:13 pm UTC
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Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
EGR valve


No more Jetta!
Tattoo Artist at Lost Anchor
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Brandon Clement] #318589
November 18, 2009 07:18 pm UTC
November 18, 2009 07:18 pm UTC
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scarboro raised but now oshawa...
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KEVIN KIRELUK Offline
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scarboro raised but now oshawa...
High NO #'s are generally caused by a lean fuel mixture.


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You can't tune out mechanical problems!!!
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: KEVIN KIRELUK] #318591
November 18, 2009 07:30 pm UTC
November 18, 2009 07:30 pm UTC
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Posts: 4,261
GTA
Tim Grechin Offline
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Originally Posted by KEVIN KIRELUK
High NO #'s are generally caused by a lean fuel mixture.


Yup. Leaner burn is also a hotter burn. Nitrogen and oxygen in the air combine to form NOx under these extreme temps. I think the temp is around 2500degF. Either way, our motors combat this high NOx by recirculating exhaust gases into the intake tract via the EGR valve.

Chance are the EGR is broken or the vacuum lines going to it are not correctly working or hooked up.


11.254@132.14MPH - Tractionally impaired
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Tim Grechin] #318593
November 18, 2009 07:53 pm UTC
November 18, 2009 07:53 pm UTC
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Newmarket, Ontario
Daren Peacock Offline
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Ya, with results like that, after the first test, the first thing I would have checked/changed was the EGR valve/system.


98 Eclipse GSX DSM82HTA
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Brandon Clement] #318598
November 18, 2009 08:31 pm UTC
November 18, 2009 08:31 pm UTC
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Loc: Loc:
Rob Strelecki Offline

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Originally Posted by Brandon Clement
EGR valve
Can you elaborate?
I hate when people post quick answers with no back-up information or links smile It makes me feel unedumicated rotate

(Sorry Brandon, I'm just getting you back for the alternator fiasco wink Welcome to the other side of the fence.)

Here is the emissions diag. topic:
http://www.ca.dsm.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=174162#Post174162


1993 Eagle Talon TSi FWD
13.8 @ 106 :::: 14.1 @ 117
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Rob Strelecki] #318599
November 18, 2009 08:40 pm UTC
November 18, 2009 08:40 pm UTC
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Posts: 4,795
Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Brandon Clement Offline
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The reason JDM vehicles (like my MR2) have such high NO2 #s is because they don't have an EGR valve, my MR2 numbers looked exactly the same.

And I didn't need to elaborate, the answer is quick and simple! Something to do with the EGR system is messing up laugh Now I could have said, "use the search option because people have brought this up numerous times and there is a huge post on e-test numbers, so you should do that because I am going to be a dick to you if you don't", but I thought just saying the answer would be best tongue

Last edited by Brandon Clement; November 18, 2009 08:41 pm UTC.

No more Jetta!
Tattoo Artist at Lost Anchor
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Brandon Clement] #318623
November 19, 2009 04:09 am UTC
November 19, 2009 04:09 am UTC
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Posts: 1,859
Brampton
Deep Mann Offline
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Yeah sounds like the EGR, because when cars fail everything, the first thing that comes into my mind is a bad cat, but since you changed that its most likely your EGR.


1997 Spyder AWD
GT35R
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Deep Mann] #318625
November 19, 2009 04:22 am UTC
November 19, 2009 04:22 am UTC
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,795
Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Brandon Clement Offline
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Cat doesn't effect NOx limits like that. EGR is the main cause of a high NOx limit.


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Tattoo Artist at Lost Anchor
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