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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Mike Lane] #351802
April 28, 2011 08:37 pm UTC
April 28, 2011 08:37 pm UTC
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Rob Strelecki Offline

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Maybe it's that possible oil burning as you suggested in your other thread!
Seems likely.. Do a compression test or better a leak-down test.

Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Mike Lane] #351803
April 28, 2011 08:39 pm UTC
April 28, 2011 08:39 pm UTC
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Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Brandon Clement Offline
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How new is your front o2 sensor?


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Brandon Clement] #351807
April 29, 2011 12:06 am UTC
April 29, 2011 12:06 am UTC
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Mike Lane Offline
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I ve been meaning to order a leakdown tester. Front O2 I have never touched. I might try for the conditional pass so I dont have to mess around. Seems like there is no shure solution. (like usual lol)


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Mike Lane] #351826
April 29, 2011 02:51 am UTC
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Did they lower the CO% !? When i was tested in Feebruary it was 1.00 as the limit now its .70??


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Nick Gallo] #351831
April 29, 2011 05:49 am UTC
April 29, 2011 05:49 am UTC
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Brandon Clement Offline
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What voltage is v3 showing for your front o2


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Brandon Clement] #353354
May 18, 2011 11:31 pm UTC
May 18, 2011 11:31 pm UTC
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Lucian Marta Online content
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Okay, I just failed miserably...

My HC at idle was 2,3XX the limit is 200, I'm over 11 times the limit. We leaned it with 'Link to the point the WB didn't even read, had 1L of meth in 1/4 tank of 87 octane gasoline, and idle was bouncing around 1,100 RPM. I have a cat as well, however I have a 272/272 cam combo, which I think is what caused such high HC. CO it passed easily. At 2,600 RPM I failed CO (barely though) yet passed HC.

Any ideas? Is it possible to pass with 272's?


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Lucian Marta] #353565
May 21, 2011 01:06 pm UTC
May 21, 2011 01:06 pm UTC
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Belleville, Ontario
Ryan Laliberte Offline OP

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Yes it's possible to pass with 272's.

High HC at idle means too much of some sort of Hydrocarbon (I.E: High fuel pressure, burning oil [valve stem seals] etc).

Look into your PCV system, and if you are burning oil at idle. Also, a 255HP on a stock FPR may be overrunning it and you could have a rich condition at idle.

A poor cat will also cause you to fail.



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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #353571
May 21, 2011 05:51 pm UTC
May 21, 2011 05:51 pm UTC
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Lucian Marta Online content
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Thanks Ryan.

However, fuel pressure was actually lowered from stock. It does not burn oil, as the valve stem seals have been replaced a 600 KMs ago, and the rings are good (good compression) Unless it's the turbo...

My PCV system is good, I got a new OEM PCV valve. And the 255 is run using an AFPR.

As for cat, I know it's there (not punched out) however it's a 3" cat. Not sure on condition or age.


2008 Evo GSR
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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Lucian Marta] #353583
May 21, 2011 09:48 pm UTC
May 21, 2011 09:48 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by Lucian Marta
Okay, I just failed miserably...

My HC at idle was 2,3XX the limit is 200, I'm over 11 times the limit. We leaned it with 'Link to the point the WB didn't even read, had 1L of meth


Going too rich or too lean will cause emmissions to rise. You want a stoich mixture(14.7:1afr) and then run the optimal timing for the most complete burn.


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: KEVIN KIRELUK] #353584
May 21, 2011 09:58 pm UTC
May 21, 2011 09:58 pm UTC
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Remove your exhaust manifold to see if any of the ports are wet. When your HC's are that high you can bet your sorry butt you're burning oil. Who installed the valve stem seals?

Last edited by Paul Petricca; May 21, 2011 10:09 pm UTC. Reason: error

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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Paul Petricca] #353585
May 21, 2011 10:43 pm UTC
May 21, 2011 10:43 pm UTC
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I did most of them and luci did maybe a few.

I did the exact same method to replace lucian's as I did on my own and to this day I dont burn oil.

And yes we did tap them into place to make sure they were seated lol.


1999 GSX
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Nick Gallo] #353608
May 22, 2011 05:20 pm UTC
May 22, 2011 05:20 pm UTC
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Paul,

I don't see any blue smoke out the exhaust, at any point. It could be idling for 20 minutes, and I romp on it and it's clean. It just smells extremely rich.

Before when I had bad valve stem seals on 2 of the 4 cylinders, it smoked really bad at idle, and when I took off after burping the bubbles out of the cooling system I covered the whole street in blue smoke. When I pulled back, I could still see the blue smoke linger 100 meters down the street, where I turned around, and the other 100 meters back. And I am not exaggerating lol

I think if my valve stem seals were really that bad, it would show at the 2,500 RPM test as well, which it passed extremely well for hydrocarbons.


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Lucian Marta] #353612
May 22, 2011 06:46 pm UTC
May 22, 2011 06:46 pm UTC
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Hamilton Ontario Canada
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Yeah I have to agree with HC's low at 2500 that it was sensing unburnt fuel more than anything at idle Lucian. Check with your logger to see that your 02 is cycling normally at idle. Did you remove your O2 and give it a good wipe after changing valve seals? When your car was in oil burning mode, that would've certainly killed your O2 in no time.


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Mike Lane] #353854
May 25, 2011 11:38 pm UTC
May 25, 2011 11:38 pm UTC
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I'm not sure if anyone has made mention of this in previous posts but I found an e-test facility that ASKS YOU if your car is a "HOT ROD" , answering yes to this and providing them copies of invoices or recepits, or some other document from a certified garage and mechanic, signed. Proving to them the modifications to your car are factual, actually increases your limits and makes passing a lot easier.

Hope this is of some help to you guys!

Last edited by Mike Eng; May 25, 2011 11:50 pm UTC.

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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Mike Eng] #353856
May 25, 2011 11:42 pm UTC
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And what does that signed document say?

"So and So's car is a hot rod?"

- Signed Bob the mechanic?


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Mike Petro] #353857
May 25, 2011 11:49 pm UTC
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Mike Eng Offline
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Mike,

My car has a 6bolt swap and bunch of other stuff in it. I had an invoice of over $5gs from HP Autosport (Danny Falardeau on the board) and gave them a photocopy of it. Watched the tech do the test. Watched him INPUT in his computer when prompted with the question of "is this vehicle a hot rod"..answered yes, and although my car didn't pass it's first or second run (first being a normal etest) I noticed the limits were increased. I'll post pictures of my results and show you I'm not BSing. But I love your sarcasm wink

Thanks,
Mike


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Mike Petro] #353858
May 25, 2011 11:49 pm UTC
May 25, 2011 11:49 pm UTC
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I read something about that a while back when strokers were all the rage. I have no idea if it's true, but they said the motor has to be completely different from what came with the car. So basically if you have any Mitsu 4cyl in your DSM, you're getting the normal test.

Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Rob Strelecki] #353860
May 26, 2011 12:02 am UTC
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Mike Eng Offline
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here's your typical test. We can call it Exibit A
[Linked Image]

And Exibit B HOT ROD STATUS wink
[Linked Image]


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Mike Eng] #353886
May 26, 2011 01:00 pm UTC
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I took my car to canadian tire. asked the guy at the counter if it can be tested as a hotrod. he said NO it has to go through the ministry. blah blah. it needs to be registered, yadda yadda.

Then when the tech was setting up I asked him if he can test it as a hotrod.

He said he has never done it before, asked me a bunch of questions, what motor is actually in it, how much the displacement increased. Then we got shooting the sh!t about my mods.

He went to the computer and started trying to figure out the etest thing. He went through all the steps for a hotrod test on the computer and got me setup!


Too bad something else was horribly wrong and I still didnt pass.


Stock.
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #355213
June 11, 2011 01:27 am UTC
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Thought I would share my results:
Test 1
2500 Test
HC = 714 (limit 200)
CO = 10.41 (limit 1.00)
Idle Test
HC = 110 (limit 200)
CO = 0.03 (limit 1.00)
Result = Epic fail. They actually laughed as they told me the results.

Test 2
HC = 19 (limit 200)
CO = 0.00 (limit 1.00)
Idle Test
HC = 36 (limit 200)
CO = 0.00 (limit 1.00)
Result = Easy pass

Relevant info: 272 regrind cams, 1000cc injectors, 3" exhaust (with OEM CAT grafted in), stock 2G MAF.

After the first test, I found a boost leak had developed around the BOV. The effect was that at higher rpm (2500) the turbo was start to push a bit of metered air (BB turbo) out the leak causing a very rich condition. Fixed the boost leak and went for the second test.
Best part was total cost for the fix was $0.

Lesson learned, check for boost leaks BEFORE e-test.


97 Eclipse GSX
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Jamie Valcamp] #355219
June 11, 2011 03:34 am UTC
June 11, 2011 03:34 am UTC
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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ghislain Goudreau] #355729
June 19, 2011 12:54 am UTC
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When I had my saturn, I could leave a blue cloud of smoke the whole distance of an on ramp the 401. And it passed the etest with flying colours! The guy said the etest cant see oil burning but the 02 could and would fail it. Mine never failed and I burned thru 2 litres a week.

He also said they look under the hood to ssee if its a stock engine, ifnot they run it as a hotrod.



11.81@119.

Or 12.04@125

Depends how I launch.
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Jay Stacey] #355732
June 19, 2011 01:06 am UTC
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I had a Celica that i swapped the motor from the 2.0 to the 2.2. Of course when i ran the test i failed. I let them know that i swapped motors and he did the test again and i passed with no problem.

I find the smaller shops dont care as much. I have a shop in Oakville that suggested i run my eclipse as a hot rod considering i was concerned about passing with all my mods. He said bring it in and he will run it as a hot rod and as long as i have a CAT i should pass.


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #357349
July 15, 2011 02:36 am UTC
July 15, 2011 02:36 am UTC
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Tim Eagles Offline
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Originally Posted by Mike Kuttschrutter
I took my car to canadian tire. asked the guy at the counter if it can be tested as a hotrod. he said NO it has to go through the ministry. blah blah. it needs to be registered, yadda yadda.

Then when the tech was setting up I asked him if he can test it as a hotrod.

He said he has never done it before, asked me a bunch of questions, what motor is actually in it, how much the displacement increased. Then we got shooting the sh!t about my mods.

He went to the computer and started trying to figure out the etest thing. He went through all the steps for a hotrod test on the computer and got me setup!


Too bad something else was horribly wrong and I still didnt pass.


Ok, first off the counter guy better have been certified to answer Drive Clean questions or he was misleading customers and spreading rumour. You have to have a minimum 1 Advisor trained in the Drive Clean Inspection process and customer relation, while you also need an Inspector to perform the tests. At least you got a nice guy for the inspection. From all the paperwork I have read for running E-test's, you will need a signed document from a dealership or like representative entity that would have sold your car "NEW", stating that the block - READ not motor - is not the original AND it was not commercially available in that chassis during the cars production. So, with that said this is what needs to happen to qualify, technically for both the shop and the customer.

Signed document from dealership showing block is not the original displacement block original to this car at any time during the production of that vehicle.
If the block is originally a 2.0L and you upgrade it with a stroker setup, but retain the block - this does NOT qualify - I would not know if anyone has contacted the Ministry to see if they do though!
If the block is originally a 1.6L and you upgrade by swapping in a 2.0L block, not commercially available in that chassis, then you qualify for HOT ROD status.
Guys with 350 chev blocks can mod their crank setup all they want, but unless they can prove the block is something like a 302 Ford block, they also would not comply with the HOT ROD standard.
Cars from 2000ish forward, that install a block other than stock, have to comply with a much stricter set of emissions and probably, from what I remember, the emissions for that year vehicle regardless of their motor. Much harder to get around that one around here, and be legitimate.

Now, the Drive Clean facility has to keep a copy of the document you provide on hand, in case the Ministry/Auditor decides to show up. For a number of reasons, Red Flags show up in the online upload process when your "Hot Rod" test is sent out via the modem line all Drive Clean machines are hooked in with to the main server. Much like when a 2 speed idle test is performed, this is also a Red Flag in the system. This just lets you know that the shop doing the test, could also be on the hook if they don't follow the proper procedures. This is what I know of the setup, and how it is run.
I have read the manuals and used because I am a ......... (fill in the blank) E-XXXX Inspector. The word you are looking for is "certified". spy

Random road side testing(?)document I found while searching for Online documents to back this up, but alas, only the paper copies in the DCF's (Driveclean Facilities) are where this is all printed.

http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/stdprodconsume/groups/lr/@ene/@resources/documents/resource/stdprod_080001.pdf


If you go in for an E-test and they pull any sort of stunt beyond what is written here, ask them to show you their book and the pages supporting that information. They must do it, and that book must be handy. Should be a large binder with lots of paper in it. naughty If the shop refuses, you have the right to call the Ministry and complain and you can bet somebody other than you is going to get their wrists slapped.

I decided to write this because it sounds like a lot of misinformation is going around, and nobody seems to have an inside eye on this, except a rare few. This should all be public knowledge and there is no harm in posting this, nothing is hidden from the public in this regard, it just isn't on your side of the counter unless you ask for it specifically. I have seen documents provided to one customer that had a VR6 motor swap in a Jetta, but no emissions hooked in at any point. Fail, get us a document proving your car did not have that motor, and get some emissions - heck even just to make it look functional! Guy was in his 50's and getting his car tested 1 hour before having to be at the airport, or some such story. Calmly provide a piece of paper saying why the car cannot be tested at that time, and a photocopy of the document from the binder, stating exactly why he was prevented from even having the test run - Failed preliminary check. Unless the system has changed since I certified and even re-certified 1-2 years ago, this should all be good.

I am all for fun cars, but this guy did not have a clue, and a shop does not want a fine because the fines are BIG. Drive Clean is a no money making situation regardless .... except for the Government. This isn't a shot at anybody here, just saw the post I quoted here, and thought this may help.

Last edited by Tim Eagles; July 15, 2011 02:36 am UTC.
Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #380253
July 24, 2012 10:25 pm UTC
July 24, 2012 10:25 pm UTC
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Well, went to get an Etest today and felt like testing out some theories.
First off, failed everything. lol

Idle test
HC ppm limit 200 reading 261 FAIL
CO% limit 1.00 reading 1.28 FAIL
RPM 959
Dilution 13.4

2500rpm test
HC ppm limit 200 reading 320 FAIL
CO% limit 1.00 reading 5.43 FAIL
RPM 0
Dilution 15.7

At least I passed the gas cap pressure tongue
Now, keep in mind I tried doing this with no cat and running a 5:1 91/meth mix. I only gave meth a shot for the etest because I've had a number of people tell me that it burns cleaner and will lower numbers and now we all know what it will look like with no cat

I have a copy of the tune and a sample etest routine if anyone is interested in taking a peek to see if I can improve that anywhere. Would be appreciated.

Anywho, I'm going to throw a Cat insert in there and go test it again later in the week. Hopefully it works unless anyone has other suggestions.

Last edited by Johnny Larmond; July 24, 2012 11:03 pm UTC.

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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #380259
July 24, 2012 11:16 pm UTC
July 24, 2012 11:16 pm UTC
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Mike Eng Offline
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try the hot rod thing.


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'03 CBR 600RR
Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #380260
July 24, 2012 11:18 pm UTC
July 24, 2012 11:18 pm UTC
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Just checked the numbers for that actually. Idle - Pass 2500rpm - BOMB


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'99 GS - zzzz.

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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Mike Eng] #380261
July 24, 2012 11:18 pm UTC
July 24, 2012 11:18 pm UTC
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Mike Eng Offline
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Originally Posted by Mike Eng
here's your typical test. We can call it Exibit A
[Linked Image]

And Exibit B HOT ROD STATUS wink
[Linked Image]


I remember I tweaked with my TPS for the idle issue. Was sitting at 1100 before. Then targeted for the 800 range.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Mike Eng; July 24, 2012 11:20 pm UTC.

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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #380263
July 24, 2012 11:28 pm UTC
July 24, 2012 11:28 pm UTC
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If I do get the hotrod status, then the 2500 is my issue, not the idle test.


'97 GSX - DD and running strong
'99 GSX Spyder - Running strong
'99 GS - zzzz.

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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #380265
July 24, 2012 11:40 pm UTC
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check those limits. you'll be fine! smile


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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #380268
July 25, 2012 12:04 am UTC
July 25, 2012 12:04 am UTC
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Moose Jaw SK / Cambridge ON
Johnny Larmond Offline
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HC limit is 300. I did 320
CO limit is 1.5. I did 5.43
lol

From what I'm seeing here, the optimal e-test setup is -5*, no boost leaks, a little meth, and being able to drive right into the facility from the highway. Not to mention a functioning O2 and a cat.

I've had my EGR blocked since the day I got this car and have never had any issues passing. Then again, I don't need to NO test.


'97 GSX - DD and running strong
'99 GSX Spyder - Running strong
'99 GS - zzzz.

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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #380269
July 25, 2012 12:20 am UTC
July 25, 2012 12:20 am UTC
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,808
Ottawa, ON
Mike Eng Offline
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wow I really am developing a bad habit of scan reading.

you're right. you need to plumb a catcon in there.


'99 GSX GT35R
'03 CBR 600RR
Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #380270
July 25, 2012 12:20 am UTC
July 25, 2012 12:20 am UTC
Joined: Apr 2010
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Ottawa, ON
Mike Eng Offline
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I'd lend you mine if you weren't so far away tongue


'99 GSX GT35R
'03 CBR 600RR
Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #380274
July 25, 2012 12:35 am UTC
July 25, 2012 12:35 am UTC
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Moose Jaw SK / Cambridge ON
Johnny Larmond Offline
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Haha, yea... I'm going to fab something up tonight. Hopefully it'll work out. I'll be sure to take some pictures along the way.


'97 GSX - DD and running strong
'99 GSX Spyder - Running strong
'99 GS - zzzz.

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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413672
September 18, 2013 09:20 pm UTC
September 18, 2013 09:20 pm UTC
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Moose Jaw SK / Cambridge ON
Johnny Larmond Offline
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so, I ran into another problem trying to get my Spyder etested.....
There are no current VIN plates on the vehicle as they were all destroyed by the wrecker I got it from. I did however manage to get the VIN and obtain a title for the vehicle with plates.

I have no doubt in my mind that the vehicle will pass the test, my issue now is getting the test performed with no VIN plate on the car, only on the ownership.
Anyone have any experience in this, advice, or little tips/tricks?
I'm hoping to get this sorted tomorrow as my safety expired the next day and I have to leave for Calgary....

BTW, I did pass my GSX etest last year with my CAT insert wink Worked flawlessly.

Last edited by Johnny Larmond; September 18, 2013 09:22 pm UTC.

'97 GSX - DD and running strong
'99 GSX Spyder - Running strong
'99 GS - zzzz.

PHP: 4
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413673
September 18, 2013 09:29 pm UTC
September 18, 2013 09:29 pm UTC
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Posts: 3,435
Kitchener Ontario
Stephen Richardson Offline
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Is it Branded and revined?

Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413676
September 18, 2013 10:14 pm UTC
September 18, 2013 10:14 pm UTC
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Ontario, Canada
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Salomon Ponte Online content
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As far as the MTO knows, it is the same car all along. smile

(And that is the car that the 'new' vin plates came from.

Last edited by Salomon Ponte; September 18, 2013 10:15 pm UTC.

'92 Talon TSi AWD - 5 Speed/E16G/12.385s @ 115.13mph
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413678
September 18, 2013 11:22 pm UTC
September 18, 2013 11:22 pm UTC
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Kitchener Ontario
Stephen Richardson Offline
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So it has no tags on the car? Dash, fenders, door jams, hatch? Just the ones in Johnny's pocket?

Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413682
September 19, 2013 12:36 am UTC
September 19, 2013 12:36 am UTC
Joined: Aug 2010
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Ontario, Canada
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Salomon Ponte Online content
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Yup.


'92 Talon TSi AWD - 5 Speed/E16G/12.385s @ 115.13mph
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413684
September 19, 2013 12:43 am UTC
September 19, 2013 12:43 am UTC
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Kitchener Ontario
Stephen Richardson Offline
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Then he might be fracked. He will have to speak to the guys doing the test though. I asume he has to run the OBD2 test being a 99.

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