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Emissions Problem HC @ idle, very Urgent. #256121
February 13, 2008 07:14 pm UTC
February 13, 2008 07:14 pm UTC
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London, Ontario, Canada
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Alexander Jones Offline
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Hi Guys, first post here, I tried to read all the emissions threads, and could not solve my problems.

Car: 1993 Plymouth Laser AWD with JDM motor with 200km on it
Compression is 150 psi right accross the board.
New Cat converter
new O2 Sensor
new plugs (NGK stock type)
new wires
New coolant temp sender
new waterpump and alternator (although that doesnt have much to do with emissions)

Failed emissions 4 times, Right now I am at 638 ppm HC, at idle and the limit is 200, Idle is fast around 1100 rpm.

ISC checks out ok, TPS checks out ok, Idle switch checks out ok,

Car doesnt sound quite right at idle, its not quite a miss but its not smooth. I can smell Unburnt HC at the tailpipe.

Please help if you have any thoughts it would be much appreciated.


Re: Emissions Problem HC @ idle, very Urgent. [Re: Alexander Jones] #256122
February 13, 2008 07:19 pm UTC
February 13, 2008 07:19 pm UTC
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Steve Kinnaird Offline

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Do you have any fuel/airflow related mods?

You may also want to read through this thread:

http://www.ca.dsm.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=254639&fpart=1

Last edited by Steve Kinnaird; February 13, 2008 07:21 pm UTC.

Now, I'll have all kinds of time to talk about DSMs, because I won't be busy fixing mine!
Re: Emissions Problem HC @ idle, very Urgent. [Re: Steve Kinnaird] #256123
February 13, 2008 07:25 pm UTC
February 13, 2008 07:25 pm UTC
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Alexander Jones Offline
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Thanks, I read that thread, My car should be stock, no mods other than removing the intake silencer and intake horn.

I should add, new air filter as well and oil is less than 300km on it.

No error codes, no CEL.

Car runs well just not at idle.


Re: Emissions Problem HC @ idle, very Urgent. [Re: Alexander Jones] #256126
February 13, 2008 07:59 pm UTC
February 13, 2008 07:59 pm UTC
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Steve Kinnaird Offline

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What are your fuel trims at? Any exhaust leaks (even TINY ones) before/around the 02 sensor?

Edit: have you verified that your base timing is at 5*?

Last edited by Steve Kinnaird; February 13, 2008 08:00 pm UTC.

Now, I'll have all kinds of time to talk about DSMs, because I won't be busy fixing mine!
Re: Emissions Problem HC @ idle, very Urgent. [Re: Steve Kinnaird] #256137
February 13, 2008 09:35 pm UTC
February 13, 2008 09:35 pm UTC
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Check these three things

-Timing has to be 5 degrees at idle
-NO BOOST LEAKS
-No exhaust leaks

Reset the battery and take the car for a good spin 20 min hard driving and make sure the cat is hot before you do the test.

Do you still have the stock emissions equipment installed? or was it removed during the engine swap


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Re: Emissions Problem HC @ idle, very Urgent. [Re: James Karban] #256141
February 13, 2008 10:21 pm UTC
February 13, 2008 10:21 pm UTC
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Alexander Jones Offline
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Originally Posted by James Karban
Check these three things

-Timing has to be 5 degrees at idle
-NO BOOST LEAKS
-No exhaust leaks

Reset the battery and take the car for a good spin 20 min hard driving and make sure the cat is hot before you do the test.

Do you still have the stock emissions equipment installed? or was it removed during the engine swap


No Boost Leaks, (sorry should have mentioned that).
No apparent Exhaust leaks (although why would that cause the HC failure)
Timing is at 5deg.

Re: Emissions Problem HC @ idle, very Urgent. [Re: Alexander Jones] #256516
February 17, 2008 05:09 pm UTC
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do a good decarbonization, both using MCCC and letting it soak overnite and then suck some windshield washer fluid thru a vacuum hose slowly and carefully with some rpms on. Suck in about a liter or maybe more.

With lots of carbon on your pistons or head parts, fuel will soak into it and then evaporate out and be unburned. Quite common, not just for DSM's either but any car with miles on it and/or had sat for a while(JDM engine)

Also double check your cam timing. Simple check on that is to pull the upper cover and then put the car in 2nd gear, ebrake off, and roll the car till the "T" mark on the lower timing cover is aligned with the notch on the crank pulley. When this lines up, check for alignment on the cams. If even one cam is out one tooth, its 12 degrees.


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Re: Emissions Problem HC @ idle, very Urgent. [Re: John Hartman] #256779
February 20, 2008 02:57 pm UTC
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Alexander Jones Offline
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I did decarbonize it, however hopefully I have found the problems, The exhaust manifold was cracked, Its been replaced and hopefully it will pass today. smile wish me luck.

Originally Posted by John Hartman
do a good decarbonization, both using MCCC and letting it soak overnite and then suck some windshield washer fluid thru a vacuum hose slowly and carefully with some rpms on. Suck in about a liter or maybe more.

With lots of carbon on your pistons or head parts, fuel will soak into it and then evaporate out and be unburned. Quite common, not just for DSM's either but any car with miles on it and/or had sat for a while(JDM engine)

Also double check your cam timing. Simple check on that is to pull the upper cover and then put the car in 2nd gear, ebrake off, and roll the car till the "T" mark on the lower timing cover is aligned with the notch on the crank pulley. When this lines up, check for alignment on the cams. If even one cam is out one tooth, its 12 degrees.

Re: Emissions Problem HC @ idle, very Urgent. [Re: Alexander Jones] #256812
February 20, 2008 09:03 pm UTC
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Failed Again, High HC at idle, no exhaust leaks, Car is not running well at idle, feels like it has a miss. Any suggestions?

Re: Emissions Problem HC @ idle, very Urgent. [Re: Alexander Jones] #256813
February 20, 2008 09:11 pm UTC
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If it's not idling well, and you've changed the plugs/wires already, maybe the coil is on its way out.

I'd double-check for intake leaks, especially at/around the throttle body, as these will have a big effect on your idle.

As a side note: Exhaust leaks can raise HC because when the leak is near the O2 sensor it may read more lean than actual, thus prompting the ECU to add fuel, resulting in a rich mixture.

That being said, it's important that you reset your ECU after correcting these problems. It will take some time for the ECU to learn that you've fixed something, and take away that extra fuel.
Pull the MPI fuse from the fusible link on the +ve battery terminal, for a minute, and your ECU is reset.


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Re: Emissions Problem HC @ idle, very Urgent. [Re: Rob Strelecki] #257475
February 27, 2008 12:10 pm UTC
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What do you mean by car is not running well at idle?

As in it's idle surging?

Or fluttering around?

Please explain, will make it easier to diagnose.

Re: Emissions Problem HC @ idle, very Urgent. [Re: Gavin Caissie] #258510
March 07, 2008 06:45 pm UTC
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Alexander Jones Offline
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Fluttering, It smells really rich at idle from the exhaust, when i pull the plugs to "read" them they seem normal.

my mechanics cleaned the throttlebody and egr valve. if you hold the car at 2500 rpm like the emissions test does then once every 5-10 seconds the car will make a noise like a miss, at idle it occurs more often.

Compression is 150psi accross the board.

Idle hunts up and down, but only by a 100 rpm or so,

Re: Emissions Problem HC @ idle, very Urgent. [Re: Rob Strelecki] #258511
March 07, 2008 06:48 pm UTC
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I changed the coil, to a backup one that i had, no differnce in idle, I do reset the ecu, and it is not throwing any codes.

Originally Posted by Rob Strelecki
If it's not idling well, and you've changed the plugs/wires already, maybe the coil is on its way out.

I'd double-check for intake leaks, especially at/around the throttle body, as these will have a big effect on your idle.

That being said, it's important that you reset your ECU after correcting these problems. It will take some time for the ECU to learn that you've fixed something, and take away that extra fuel.
Pull the MPI fuse from the fusible link on the +ve battery terminal, for a minute, and your ECU is reset.

Re: Emissions Problem HC @ idle, very Urgent. [Re: Alexander Jones] #258537
March 07, 2008 10:37 pm UTC
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Mine also failed the HC at idle and was running rough and rich. Nothing seemed to fix it until I swapped out the injectors. You seemed to have tried everything else.

If it leads to desperation, why no make a small vacuum leak so that you lean it out for the test since it's only an 2 speed idle test and no load.

Also, if you've replaced all those parts, isn't that enough to get the $400 one year thing?

Re: Emissions Problem HC @ idle, very Urgent. [Re: Tashko Sarakinov] #258584
March 08, 2008 07:30 am UTC
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Tim Eagles Offline
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Originally Posted by Tashko Sarakinov

Also, if you've replaced all those parts, isn't that enough to get the $400 one year thing?

The at or above $450 limit may only qualify if done at an accreditted facility, by an accreditted technician but I'd have to brush up in that regard to be sure.

If the idle is at ~1000 RPM and is hunting 100 RPM or more consistently, then you have to perform all the basics to set timing, Idle Stop Switch, TPS, Boost leaks, and yes you could have a leaking injector which could be found somewhat by turning off the injectors with a logger but makes it more complicated if you aren't on the rollers. Without a consistent idle, elevated RPM and obviously bad tailpipe emissions are some issues that you can have.

Re: Emissions Problem HC @ idle, very Urgent. [Re: Tim Eagles] #258585
March 08, 2008 07:38 am UTC
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Your high idle is what worries me the most because you can't set the timing very accurately for "base" timing when the engine is racing above the proper level. Heck the car could even have the throttle plate partly opened to the point of exposing the vacuum ports slightly, but I'm getting ahead of myself.

Have you take a vacuum tester to apply vacuum directly to the EGR valve? Normally this only happens under load, but you can also use your hand (watch out as it can get hot in that area) to depress the EGR valve if memory serves me well enough (2-3 years ago I did this), and that will allow you to flood the motor with EGR to prove that your motor should almost stall out at idle when doing this. You can also hold the RPM higher and perform the same test at ~2500 just to see what the motor should sound like when EGR is applied. The motor will usually need to be pretty hot for the EGR to be kicking in, so don't burn yourself to do this. This can be done with the motor cold for the sake of knowing that the EGR has some dramatic effect at idle.

What sort of vacuum readings do you have too?

Re: Emissions Problem HC @ idle, very Urgent. [Re: Tim Eagles] #278292
September 26, 2008 08:01 pm UTC
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Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead..I just thought I would update it as I am the new owner the car and found out what the problem was. The timing belt was changed as mentioned by the previous owner, however the shop did not line the cams up properly. The exhaust cam was retarded a tooth which is apparently a common error. I have re-timed the car at this point so hopefully that will solve the problem. I will be firing it up this Sunday and then proceeding to have an emissions test done this coming week.

Failed E-test #283977
November 18, 2008 06:07 pm UTC
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I went for my E-test today and didnt do any of the standard prep work for it. No oil change, plugs or wires. And I failed quite bad.

2500rpm
Limit Reading Result
HC 200 107 Pass
CO 1.0 1.33 Fail
NO N/A

Idle
Limit Reading Result
HC 200 208 Fail
CO 1.0 2.53 Fail
NO N/A

Now I will go change my plugs, my wires are still in good condition. I am running stock injectors and fuel system with a DSMlink.

I have been thru just about every thread there is on e-test and all the of them almost conflict each other.

Any pointers? Looks like I am running way rich at idle. Also does running 84 octane gas help or hurt? Currently I am running Ultra94 only


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Re: Failed E-test [Re: David Robins] #283979
November 18, 2008 06:26 pm UTC
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Go for a highway pull before the test, and use crap gas.


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Re: Failed E-test [Re: Rob Strelecki] #283981
November 18, 2008 06:36 pm UTC
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We just bought a 93 Benz 300E recently, and the first e-test I took it in for it failed. HC: limit 54, reading around 150. NO: limit around 200, reading was in the 700's !

I swear, I put nothing else but a gallon of methanol in the tank, went for a retest the next day and passed.
HC: limit 54, reading 54
NO: limit around 200's, reading was in the 100's smile

This was this past weekend. I'll post up the failed and passed e-test when I get a chance.


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Re: Failed E-test [Re: Rob Strelecki] #283982
November 18, 2008 06:37 pm UTC
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it wouldn't hurt lean the car out a bit or even slightly advance the ignition timing by a degree since you don't have to put the car on the rollers.


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Re: Failed E-test [Re: James Karban] #284004
November 18, 2008 07:45 pm UTC
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Have you checked your fuel trims in DSMlink ?
Start with the free stuff first.


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Re: Failed E-test [Re: Tim Hunt] #284015
November 18, 2008 08:39 pm UTC
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Did you go for a good run right before the test? Something as simple as not having the CAT hot enough will make you fail (as they don't do anything unless their hot enough). Then start with the other simple things mentioned. Have also heard that if the car is idled a long time before the test, the evap system could be purging into the intake, which will also make your readings higher then normal.


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Re: Failed E-test [Re: Rob Strelecki] #284019
November 18, 2008 09:21 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by Rob Strelecki
Go for a highway pull before the test, and use crap gas.


Sorry to hijack the thread guys, but why do you say to use crap gas Rob? Is there something in the higher end gas such as Sunoco 94 that can cause the car to fail?


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Re: Failed E-test [Re: miguel barros] #284020
November 18, 2008 09:26 pm UTC
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The lower octane fuel burns faster, so it's more likely to pass an emissions test as there's less chance of residual.

Re: Failed E-test [Re: miguel barros] #284022
November 18, 2008 09:28 pm UTC
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Well I just played around with the link a bit, it sounds better at idle but I am still 100% sure what I doing, I will be staying out of boost for now.
My fuel trims are strange
LTFT (Lo) 12.5
LTFT (Med) 12.5
STFT 16.8

Those numbers didnt change at all when I moved the Global setting -5, -10 and -15 didnt make them change at all. It did sound like it was idling better and no knock was showing.

Timming I left alone at idle its around +3-5 but at around 2500rpm it shows +20-30 advance. That doesnt look right to me


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Re: Failed E-test [Re: David Robins] #284026
November 18, 2008 10:39 pm UTC
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for your ltft's and such, what was your coolant temp, if it's too cold, the car assumes its still warming up, and trhe ecu wont learn. There's a a whole method to get it to change the fuel trims


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Re: Failed E-test [Re: Tim Hunt] #284028
November 18, 2008 10:54 pm UTC
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Your ecu is maxed out, it thinks you are running lean so it's adding 12.5% more fuel into the mixture but if the stft is almost 17% then it's trying to add even more. Yout tune is completely wrong.

What injectors are you running? and what are the global and deadtime settings.

Last edited by James Karban; November 18, 2008 10:59 pm UTC.

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Re: Failed E-test [Re: David Robins] #284030
November 18, 2008 10:59 pm UTC
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I am running stock injectors, the global is currently set at -15% and 0 dead time.

The car was up to operating temperature, I gotta wait for traffic to clear up so i can get some steady speed driving in.

I know the car has been running rich, the black soot on my bumper can atest to that.


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Re: Failed E-test [Re: David Robins] #284031
November 18, 2008 11:05 pm UTC
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That's why you are running lean.

Zero out everything. You only use global to compensate for larger injectors. You don't have larger injectors, you have stock injectors.


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Re: Failed E-test [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #284032
November 18, 2008 11:15 pm UTC
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After dinner I will zero everything back out and see what happens. Everything was left at stock settings when I first did the etest.

I'll report back later


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Re: Failed E-test [Re: David Robins] #284058
November 19, 2008 01:46 am UTC
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Well I zeroed everything out and things started to move a bit but all the trims are still to high. I bumped the 50hz up a bit and the stft went to near zero, the ltft are still high, but I ran out of time, I will log it again on the way to work tommorrow.


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Re: Failed E-test [Re: David Robins] #284060
November 19, 2008 02:02 am UTC
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you have 450cc injectors---

DO NOT TOUCH Global or deadtime settings. For stock 450cc you should have global at 0% and 0 deadtime.

If your airflow is positive in idle 50hz increase the airflow the same amount.

So if your low trim is 10% increase 50hz by 10%,

Log MafRaw and rev the car under 50hz then 150hz and then 250hz and adjust the airflow settings accordingly.


Last edited by James Karban; November 19, 2008 02:03 am UTC.

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1997 Talon AWD
Re: Failed E-test [Re: James Karban] #284061
November 19, 2008 02:05 am UTC
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to pass the etest you should increase you base timing from 5 deg to 6-6.5deg to lean out your mixture more.


2005 BMW 330ci ZHP

---Sold----
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1997 Talon AWD
Failed E-test need advice on what to change #291117
February 14, 2009 08:39 pm UTC
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Ok, so I thought my car was good, but when I took it for a E-test I found that it wasn't as good as I thought. I had a big jug(4liters of methol hydrate) and $25 of 94 octane and here are the readings

ASM 2525
Limit Reading
HC ppm- 58 -21
CO%- .32 -.02
NO ppm- 652 -1869

CURB IDLE
Limit Reading
HC ppm- 200 -2064
CO%- 1.00 -0.00
NO ppm- N/A -N/A

The car is a 91 fwd tsi, I think I need to change the cat, which I have, but need to know what else might be causing these numbers. My reading of HC ppm at idle is extremly high, does our stock fpr stay open at idle and closed while under load to keep pressure in the rail? If so could the FPR be to blame aswell? My plug wires could use changing, so I guess I will do them and the cat forsure, but my temp permit ends on Sunday so have to get this done asap.
Any and all help would be great thank in advance Brendan.


1998 tsi awd, some mods
1997 spyder gst, some mods
1996 honda civic B20
2003 Honda Accord


Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: brendan warwick] #291118
February 14, 2009 08:42 pm UTC
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Why didn't you just do a test with 89 octane gas? If it doesn't pass that, then try other things... Or is there something making you think you'll fail with regular gas?

Check the fuel form here, there's a big guide to emissions diagnostics.


1993 Eagle Talon TSi FWD
13.8 @ 106 :::: 14.1 @ 117
Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: brendan warwick] #291119
February 14, 2009 08:57 pm UTC
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While it's never going to cause this kind of gross pollution, use regular gas. Higher octane gas can hurt emmisions.

Log your o2, your probably going to find it either dead, or reporting full rich at idle. If it's not dead, start looking at the fuel injection system, MAF readings, etc. Something's giving cause to pump fuel in. Or failing that, it's not burning.

High NOX is often an EGR valve getting stuck, failed or a cat on the way out.

A busted FPR could certainly be increasing fuel pressure far outside what the ECU can account for, but you'd probably have other serious driveability issues as well as that.

If your o2 test's good, and maf readings are within reason, I might do a quick fuel pressure check, but it's likely your going to find your trouble before getting to it.

Plugs and wires can't hurt, but would need to be way into miss-fire at idle territory to cause this kind of trouble. And lastly, the cat is often not to blame, but running very rich for a long time can really take it's toll and plug them up with carbon rendering them pretty in-effective.

Paul

Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: Paul Kruger] #291121
February 14, 2009 09:03 pm UTC
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Ya my car use to blow all kinds of black smoke when boosting, then my turbo went and oil started to go through my exhaust and cat. I have recently put the maf-t in and the black smoke is all gone, aswell I changed the turbo.


1998 tsi awd, some mods
1997 spyder gst, some mods
1996 honda civic B20
2003 Honda Accord


Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: brendan warwick] #291192
February 16, 2009 06:17 am UTC
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Ok, I have found some of my parts, which include a new 2.5 inch cat, newer egr, I am going to use a can of t/b cleaner to be sure of no carbon build up. I will do a boost leak test and seal all leaks.
Does anyone in or around oshawa have a copy or can make me a copy of tmo logging program I have a copy, but the computer its on is in peices.
Is there any thing else I should do as a precaution? Also if I have exhaust leaks would that make me fail?
If it would does anyone know where I can get the turbo to manifold gasket, turbo to o2 gasket, and o2 to downpipe? I know one of them is leaking and the others probablly arn't far behind. I know I can go to Mitsu, I just remember looking for them before and didn't have much luck so I HAD to go to Mitsu (I hate waiting lol). If they are my only option does anyone know the part numbers?
Could I just buy a can of copper spray gasket to temp seal the leaks? If so where can I get some?(they don't sell it where I use to get it)

Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: brendan warwick] #291193
February 16, 2009 06:24 am UTC
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Also I noticed that my idle on the test was at 438rpm? I read in the e-test guide in the fuel fourm that a low idle can cause a incomplete burn. So could that alone be why I have such high HC on my crub idle?

Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: brendan warwick] #291202
February 16, 2009 05:07 pm UTC
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I'd do all you said, and then get it idling properly with regular gas, then a highway run and straight on to the rollers.

Exhaust leaks around the O2 sensor could make you rich, but I don't think it would be this bad.

Gaskets are MD181032, MD124675 & MB687002 - did you try Ziggy?

Crappy tire sells Pemratex UltraCopper.
I wouldn't bother using just RTV. You'd have to get rid of the old gaskets and everyting will be apart so you might as well do it right with gaskets.


Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: Rob Strelecki] #291578
February 21, 2009 01:25 pm UTC
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I had a car fail because of low idle rpms, fixed it by adjusting the base idle set screw and it passed, not only did it just pass but the HC numbers were close to zero. Huge improvement.

Next I had another car that failed emissions testing, changed the spark plugs and fresh new engine oil change and there was a dramatic improvement at the next emission test (passed as well). There was no hint of poor idle or anything to indicate the spark plugs were bad, but they were easy to change and cheap to replace.


Inventor, Hacker, Creator of LCD Boost controller, TFT Logger, OBD1 -> Can Bus converter (Torque!)
Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: Antero Jussila] #293732
March 19, 2009 09:25 pm UTC
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Ok, so I took it in again today only to fail again here are the new results

2500rpm
hc limit-200 reading-34 -PASS
co% limit-1.00 reading-0.01 -PASS

Idle
hc limit-200 reading-305 -FAIL
co% limit-1.00 reading-0.00 -PASS

I ajusted the first knob the maf-t 2 clicks to the left, the second 1 to the left, and the third 1 click to the left, I also changed the plug wires, egr, double checked the timing, boost leak tested it I noticed that around 30psi it would start to leak slowly could this be the problem. My engine light was also on during the test, which could have been one of two codes, O2 or tps. Please fill me in on what it might be.


1998 tsi awd, some mods
1997 spyder gst, some mods
1996 honda civic B20
2003 Honda Accord


Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: brendan warwick] #293766
March 20, 2009 03:33 am UTC
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do you have access to a scanner? or even better, one that can view live data.

imo, the cat and O2 sensors would be the first thing I look at if I fail HC by that much.

in your case, it's time to check the O2 sensor.


'02 BMW ///M3
'95 TSi AWD - Sold
Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: Ju Chen] #293789
March 20, 2009 01:34 pm UTC
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No, I have the logger cable for a laptop, but lent my laptop out and its not looking like I will get it back. I have the maf-t, and from what I can tell, HC= rich. So can I just turn the idle and mid knobs to the right a lick or two? To lean it out.

Last edited by brendan warwick; March 20, 2009 01:39 pm UTC.

1998 tsi awd, some mods
1997 spyder gst, some mods
1996 honda civic B20
2003 Honda Accord


Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: brendan warwick] #293792
March 20, 2009 02:39 pm UTC
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Ju Chen Offline
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never played with a maf-t before so not too sure.

but if you can lean out idle some, theoretically that "should" do it.

keep in mind that if your O2 is working and reading, leaning out the maf-t might not do you any good as your ECU will just tune it right back.

surest way is to take a look at your O2 readings, if it's even working. that should take most of the guess work out.


'02 BMW ///M3
'95 TSi AWD - Sold
Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: Ju Chen] #293899
March 21, 2009 04:02 am UTC
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As long as you have the compression within spec you should pass regardless of whether you run 89 or 94. what are your compression readings?
My car passed the pipe test without the egr. The cat was present.
I think high HC could also be unburnt fuel.

try retarding the timing in order to squeeze by, but there are no proper band-aid solutions.

if you are not as efficient as you could be, you are losing power too. frown

Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: Cesar Ito] #293920
March 21, 2009 04:14 pm UTC
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Let's keep this simple...

Higher HC at idle just means you have some extra unburnt fuel flying out the exhaust.

Make sure the car is completely warmed up... take it for a good steady spin. Don't accelerate to hard or to often, but drive atleast 15km then go for the test.

Steps to take before you go....

1.)You need to install new spark plugs BPR6ES and gap them to proper specs 0.28.

2.)Raise your idle to 1000-1150 rpm this just below the 1200rpm limit.

3.) Install a stock MAF sensor for the test unless you can properly tune the maf-t.

4. Make sure your base timing is correct (with a timing light)

Then if the above doesn't work you can always

run lower octane gas for the test.. or and even slightly advance timing by 0.5-1 degree giving you a leaner burn. However your NOx might increase slighty.


2005 BMW 330ci ZHP

---Sold----
1997 GST Spyder
1997 Talon AWD
Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: James Karban] #293923
March 21, 2009 04:31 pm UTC
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Thanks guys

1.)You need to install new spark plugs BPR6ES and gap them to proper specs 0.28.
- Just did before the first test, I will pull and re-check the gap and condition though(might just get a new set as I need a recipt for the $17 re-test)

2.)Raise your idle to 1000-1150 rpm this just below the 1200rpm limit.
- Just did before the re-test

3.) Install a stock MAF sensor for the test unless you can properly tune the maf-t.
- Don't have one, but pretty sure I got it tuned good for the test

4. Make sure your base timing is correct (with a timing light)
- Just did before the re-test

I will also check the compression, but I'm sure its good. I also am trying to find a cheaper than new o2 in the for sale fourm lol, as the one in there has been rewired from my 2g n/t :S. I'm also wondering if my TPS being out of ajusment could be causing these conditions at idle.



1998 tsi awd, some mods
1997 spyder gst, some mods
1996 honda civic B20
2003 Honda Accord


Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: brendan warwick] #294149
March 24, 2009 06:05 pm UTC
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Here are the reading from a snap on computer, I know my o2 is dead and my TPS has a broken wire almost cut right through, but how does everything else look. I had my friend who use to be a e-tester set it up, he said it should pass, but I am second guessing it, as the exhaust smokes for a little bit on start up.
2500rpm
[Linked Image]

Idle
[Linked Image]

Last edited by brendan warwick; March 24, 2009 06:15 pm UTC.

1998 tsi awd, some mods
1997 spyder gst, some mods
1996 honda civic B20
2003 Honda Accord


Re: Failed E-test need advice on what to change [Re: brendan warwick] #294155
March 24, 2009 08:27 pm UTC
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Fix the TPS wire, it is an essential part of the entire throttle system and you make sure you calibrate it. Can't remember of the top of my head what the tps volts should be at idle but double check on vfaq.

Last edited by James Karban; March 24, 2009 08:27 pm UTC.

2005 BMW 330ci ZHP

---Sold----
1997 GST Spyder
1997 Talon AWD
I Failed Emission Any possible solutions? #294527
March 29, 2009 12:22 am UTC
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Hey i really need to know what i can fix so that i can pass the next emission test. I went today and i failed the idle part of the test. The HC ppm read 348 and the limit is 200.
The guy that did it for me said it might be miss firing. On the screen it looked as if the idle was jumping.
So bascily high HC at idel.. how can i fix this?


Burgundy '91 TSi- 3" turbo back,big 16g,adjKYBs,FMIC,RC 550's, 255Lph, Rebuilt engine,ect
Re: I Failed Emission Any possible solutions? [Re: Paul Bebnowski] #294535
March 29, 2009 02:07 am UTC
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Try searching "methanol". It's a quick solution if you just want to pass and then worry about the issues later.

I would do the spark plugs and wires and then throw in some methanol in the tank. I can't remember the mixture, but it works.

I use it because I don't have a cat on my car. You'll get a funny idle until your car warms up.


1995 AWD talon
"Help" with emissions test #294575
March 29, 2009 09:11 pm UTC
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So, I don't think my car is going to pass without an EGR valve considering of how bad I failed last time (high NOX). I'm going for a re-test next week sometime, after fixing a major boost leak/new oil change/new spark plugs and bringing back the timing a tad.

My shop had someone who could "help" but is no longer able to.

I need my car to be on the road by the end of next week and this e-test is the only thing stopping it from happening.

If you know anyone, please PM me.


'15 VW GTI Autobahn
'10 Mitsubishi EVO GSR - SOLD
'97 Eclipse Spyder - RIP. Oct 1/11
Re: "Help" with emissions test [Re: Mike Petro] #294604
March 30, 2009 01:47 am UTC
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NOX is measured only at idle if I remember correctly.

Would it work if you richen idle up a little bit? but without going over so you would fail HC.

not sure if that'll work, just an idea.


'02 BMW ///M3
'95 TSi AWD - Sold
Re: "Help" with emissions test [Re: Ju Chen] #294605
March 30, 2009 01:49 am UTC
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How would I go about doing that?


'15 VW GTI Autobahn
'10 Mitsubishi EVO GSR - SOLD
'97 Eclipse Spyder - RIP. Oct 1/11
Re: "Help" with emissions test [Re: Mike Petro] #294608
March 30, 2009 02:01 am UTC
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Ryan Laliberte Offline OP

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NOx is measured at Cruise, this is only when your EGR opens.

Originally Posted by Tim Grech - Emissions 101

EGR SYSTEM
The EGR is another system which many people eliminate. Now, other then dirtying up the intake manifold with a little extra carbon, the EGR does not affect the performance of the car in any way. It’s closed at WOT and idle. It’s only open at partial throttle w/ no boost to be precise. If you are doing your emissions and you are failing miserably in the NOx department (FWD only), your EGR is not functioning correctly. To understand this, you have to understand that NOx is not created by the burn of the motor but by the heat of the motor. At around 2500 degrees F, nitrogen and oxygen in the air effectively combine to create NOx, a harmful gas. The EGR re-circulates inert exhaust gases back into the intake to cool down the hot burn and reduce the NOx being formed.


If you have link, you can richen up your fuel sliders at the RPM where they test at (About 2500ish) to dump a little more fuel so it cools your burn.


AWDAuto
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FP Green HTA - 11.42/123
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Re: "Help" with emissions test [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #294612
March 30, 2009 02:31 am UTC
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Originally Posted by Ryan Laliberte
NOx is measured at Cruise, this is only when your EGR opens.

Originally Posted by Tim Grech - Emissions 101

EGR SYSTEM
The EGR is another system which many people eliminate. Now, other then dirtying up the intake manifold with a little extra carbon, the EGR does not affect the performance of the car in any way. It’s closed at WOT and idle. It’s only open at partial throttle w/ no boost to be precise. If you are doing your emissions and you are failing miserably in the NOx department (FWD only), your EGR is not functioning correctly. To understand this, you have to understand that NOx is not created by the burn of the motor but by the heat of the motor. At around 2500 degrees F, nitrogen and oxygen in the air effectively combine to create NOx, a harmful gas. The EGR re-circulates inert exhaust gases back into the intake to cool down the hot burn and reduce the NOx being formed.


If you have link, you can richen up your fuel sliders at the RPM where they test at (About 2500ish) to dump a little more fuel so it cools your burn.


If you have DSMLink, no you can't do this. Fuel sliders are for open loop tuning only & the car won't be in open loop when doing an etest (or at cruise). It will be in closed loop, which gets feedbacks from the O2 sensor, so even if you were to richen things up, the ecu would just try & compensate to get your trims back inline. Only way to richen it up would be to add so much fuel that the ecu can no longer compensate but that will cause other issues (throw a CEL, probably not pass other portions of the test).

The way to do it with link would be to reduce your timing sliders at the specific test rpms. As the timing sliders are always in effect.


98 Eclipse GSX DSM82HTA
Re: "Help" with emissions test [Re: Daren Peacock] #294616
March 30, 2009 02:45 am UTC
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Ryan Laliberte Offline OP

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Fack... you're right Darren. Gotta slow down on the Alexander Keiths....

Retarding timing will cause an incomplete burn, this will also up your HC, so you'll have to find the middle point.

Thanks Darren!


AWDAuto
1996 TSi AWD Automagic
12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G
FP Green HTA - 11.42/123
Team Pump Gas and Meth
RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts

"Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim Carrey
Re: I Failed Emission Any possible solutions? [Re: Mike Palome] #294624
March 30, 2009 03:37 am UTC
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hey i was wondering if that stuff from canadian tire works, it guarantees the car will pass.. is that the same stuff?


Burgundy '91 TSi- 3" turbo back,big 16g,adjKYBs,FMIC,RC 550's, 255Lph, Rebuilt engine,ect
Re: "Help" with emissions test [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #294639
March 30, 2009 02:02 pm UTC
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Alright cool, thanks guys.

I'll take it for the test early this week to see if there was any improvement and post up the results.


'15 VW GTI Autobahn
'10 Mitsubishi EVO GSR - SOLD
'97 Eclipse Spyder - RIP. Oct 1/11
Emissions Test - Merged. #294744
March 31, 2009 01:32 am UTC
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Well, it seems we have a lot of emissions questions regarding passing, results, etc so we have decided to make a merged thread about these kinds of questions.

From now on, all emissions related questions/topics go here. This thread has been stickied.

If you have problems with emissions testing, please read through the thread first, your answer may lay inside.



AWDAuto
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12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G
FP Green HTA - 11.42/123
Team Pump Gas and Meth
RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts

"Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim Carrey
Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #294782
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Well, I failed my last one on Friday, so went over the car again, and found a torn coupler, go figure it happend after the boost leak test :S. So I am going again in a bit, I think it should be good today, before this I never failed a e-test, and this is the eighth dsm that I have done lol.

Last edited by brendan warwick; March 31, 2009 06:16 pm UTC.

1998 tsi awd, some mods
1997 spyder gst, some mods
1996 honda civic B20
2003 Honda Accord


Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: brendan warwick] #294812
April 01, 2009 12:40 am UTC
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PASSED!!!


1998 tsi awd, some mods
1997 spyder gst, some mods
1996 honda civic B20
2003 Honda Accord


Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: brendan warwick] #294813
April 01, 2009 12:45 am UTC
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Congrats. Hopefully I can say the same smile


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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Mike Petro] #294814
April 01, 2009 12:51 am UTC
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Port Hope
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Yeah thanks man, Good luck with yours!


1998 tsi awd, some mods
1997 spyder gst, some mods
1996 honda civic B20
2003 Honda Accord


Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: brendan warwick] #294997
April 03, 2009 01:05 pm UTC
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Retarded my timing to -5 across the board. It's at the shop now after driving it around for a bit. Everyone was telling me to drive it around before the test to make sure the cat was extremely hot, although my shop said I shouldn't have done that as that would just make my NOx higher? .. what is true?

I should have my results before 11am


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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Mike Petro] #295002
April 03, 2009 02:22 pm UTC
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I PASSED!!!!!

I haven't gotten the paper yet, but I got a call from my shop saying I passed. SO pumped lol.

My NOx was at 95, limit was 500 or something.
Previous test, my NOx was at 1900


'15 VW GTI Autobahn
'10 Mitsubishi EVO GSR - SOLD
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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Mike Petro] #295006
April 03, 2009 02:40 pm UTC
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the shop is right about the Nox,

high NOx is indicative of other problems... such as running to lean or a bad cat. In your case I would you say your car was running way to lean before.


2005 BMW 330ci ZHP

---Sold----
1997 GST Spyder
1997 Talon AWD
Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: James Karban] #295008
April 03, 2009 02:53 pm UTC
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[Linked Image]


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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Mike Petro] #295009
April 03, 2009 03:01 pm UTC
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Should I be putting my timing back to +5?


'15 VW GTI Autobahn
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E-Test from hell #318582
November 18, 2009 05:58 pm UTC
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Any advice would be greatly appreciated, i took the wifes 94 non turbo talon in for an e test

Results from 1st on


limit reading
hc ppm 57 146
co% .32 .56
no ppm 421 2414

After the test i put on a new cat, new o2 sensor,new air filter,new plugs and wires,the oil was changed before the test

results from 2nd test
limit reading
hc ppm 57 62
co% .32 .03 pass
no ppm 421 2138

On both tests the idle part of the test passed, anyone out there give some thought as to what the hell is going on thanks



Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Michael Muir] #318584
November 18, 2009 06:13 pm UTC
November 18, 2009 06:13 pm UTC
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Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
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EGR valve


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Brandon Clement] #318589
November 18, 2009 07:18 pm UTC
November 18, 2009 07:18 pm UTC
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High NO #'s are generally caused by a lean fuel mixture.


TPG+Meth
You can't tune out mechanical problems!!!
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: KEVIN KIRELUK] #318591
November 18, 2009 07:30 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by KEVIN KIRELUK
High NO #'s are generally caused by a lean fuel mixture.


Yup. Leaner burn is also a hotter burn. Nitrogen and oxygen in the air combine to form NOx under these extreme temps. I think the temp is around 2500degF. Either way, our motors combat this high NOx by recirculating exhaust gases into the intake tract via the EGR valve.

Chance are the EGR is broken or the vacuum lines going to it are not correctly working or hooked up.


11.254@132.14MPH - Tractionally impaired
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Tim Grechin] #318593
November 18, 2009 07:53 pm UTC
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Ya, with results like that, after the first test, the first thing I would have checked/changed was the EGR valve/system.


98 Eclipse GSX DSM82HTA
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Brandon Clement] #318598
November 18, 2009 08:31 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by Brandon Clement
EGR valve
Can you elaborate?
I hate when people post quick answers with no back-up information or links smile It makes me feel unedumicated rotate

(Sorry Brandon, I'm just getting you back for the alternator fiasco wink Welcome to the other side of the fence.)

Here is the emissions diag. topic:
http://www.ca.dsm.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=174162#Post174162


1993 Eagle Talon TSi FWD
13.8 @ 106 :::: 14.1 @ 117
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Rob Strelecki] #318599
November 18, 2009 08:40 pm UTC
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The reason JDM vehicles (like my MR2) have such high NO2 #s is because they don't have an EGR valve, my MR2 numbers looked exactly the same.

And I didn't need to elaborate, the answer is quick and simple! Something to do with the EGR system is messing up laugh Now I could have said, "use the search option because people have brought this up numerous times and there is a huge post on e-test numbers, so you should do that because I am going to be a dick to you if you don't", but I thought just saying the answer would be best tongue

Last edited by Brandon Clement; November 18, 2009 08:41 pm UTC.

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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Brandon Clement] #318623
November 19, 2009 04:09 am UTC
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Yeah sounds like the EGR, because when cars fail everything, the first thing that comes into my mind is a bad cat, but since you changed that its most likely your EGR.


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GT35R
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Deep Mann] #318625
November 19, 2009 04:22 am UTC
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Cat doesn't effect NOx limits like that. EGR is the main cause of a high NOx limit.


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Brandon Clement] #318652
November 19, 2009 06:11 pm UTC
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Not true, A lot of emission Related component can effect nox,but the main 3 are a Cat, 02 Sensor and EGR You cannot say EGR is the main cause of a high NOX reading. Im a Emission Test Inspector shuffle and Work at a Accredited Repair Facility, We fix at least 3 cars a week, that fail emission, From personal experience a Failing cat is the most commonly problem with NOX. Last week we had a 2005 Toyota corolla that failed with only 120k on it, The cat and EGR system were good, it was a failing O2 Sensor...Just shows you EVERY CAR is very different and you cant base your results on the mr2....

Last edited by Deep Mann; November 19, 2009 06:20 pm UTC.

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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Deep Mann] #318653
November 19, 2009 06:15 pm UTC
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If it means anything... my car passed without an EGR


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Mike Petro] #318654
November 19, 2009 06:30 pm UTC
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yeah that shows you every car is different wink

Last edited by Deep Mann; November 19, 2009 06:30 pm UTC.

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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Deep Mann] #318655
November 19, 2009 06:52 pm UTC
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my car with no cat had a nox of 2800, with a cat 2200. egr is the main source of high nox, every mechanic i know says so.


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Brandon Clement] #318659
November 19, 2009 07:13 pm UTC
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Again you are comparing your old mr2 bro, Mikes car passed without a EGR, every car is VERY diffrent, Yes EGR is made to control NOX, but what I was saying you cant say its the main problem with a emission test , I dont want people reading your comment and directly going to spend money fixing there EGR and then there car fails...and with Micheals car I was saying when a CAR FAILS EVERY reading many times for me it is the CAT.. but not the case with his car becuase he already changed it...

and Brandon only a difference of 600 eh, A lot of cars that need a Cat fail at the same reading, and once that cat is on it is usually under 400 NOX, but that was not the case with your mr2, If I recall did it come with a EGR ? I dont think so but im not sure, If you had put the EGR first and tested it with no cat, I Garuntee you would've got the same Readings

Last edited by Deep Mann; November 19, 2009 07:27 pm UTC.

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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Deep Mann] #318672
November 19, 2009 08:32 pm UTC
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I would say the first thing to check is the EGR system (assuming the car is supposed to be equipped with one). This is because usually it is easy to test.
With the engine at idle, manually actuate or apply vacuum as needed to get the valve to open. If the engine stalls aor at least runs rough, it's likely the EGR system is not plugged. Also confirm the valve diaphragm is working properly.

I would say that it is a common failure point (especially on older cars) due to the environment it has to work in. I have seen the EGR passages completely clogged on my old Camaro, the valve still worked but nothing could flow.

Now some cars I know either weren't designed to need an EGR valve or don't need it much, fine.

However, it's easy to check and a nasty environment so I would still check it first if I had NOx issues. Swapping out a cat or O2 is way more difficult and costly.

For the cars that have electronic EGR, well then I guess it's tougher to manually operate the valve. Sucks to be you. Maybe there is a jumper you can use.


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Rob Greer] #318674
November 19, 2009 08:39 pm UTC
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Rob, Thats the thing, I can check 02 sensor with a Computer, And The cat with the Actual Emission machine, For me it is the same thing, I was Replying to Brandons Statement when he says, A cat doesnt affect The limits like that which is for sure not true, And A EGR is the main cause of a High Nox Which I am saying is not true for every car, and Yes EGR should be checked first because it is the easiest

Last edited by Deep Mann; November 19, 2009 09:06 pm UTC.

1997 Spyder AWD
GT35R
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Deep Mann] #318705
November 20, 2009 12:46 am UTC
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Originally Posted by Deep Mann
Again you are comparing your old mr2 bro, Mikes car passed without a EGR, every car is VERY diffrent, Yes EGR is made to control NOX, but what I was saying you cant say its the main problem with a emission test , I dont want people reading your comment and directly going to spend money fixing there EGR and then there car fails...and with Micheals car I was saying when a CAR FAILS EVERY reading many times for me it is the CAT.. but not the case with his car becuase he already changed it...

and Brandon only a difference of 600 eh, A lot of cars that need a Cat fail at the same reading, and once that cat is on it is usually under 400 NOX, but that was not the case with your mr2, If I recall did it come with a EGR ? I dont think so but im not sure, If you had put the EGR first and tested it with no cat, I Garuntee you would've got the same Readings


How would I get the same ratings if I installed a system that is put in place to reduce NOx limits. The USDM MR2 with an EGR valve passes those limits no problem. Only difference, engine wise, between jdm and usdm, is the EGR valve.

And yes only 600, because a 3 way cat is not something that can drop the NOx limits like an EGR system does, that is what it's there for.

I went over this with Durham Auto Works, Can-Saf, Tomlin, Yoshio, and my family mechanic.

And the cars might be different, but all EGR systems work the same.

Last edited by Brandon Clement; November 20, 2009 12:47 am UTC.

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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Brandon Clement] #318718
November 20, 2009 01:58 am UTC
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But isn't the EGR supposed to be closed at idle?
So a properly functioning EGR shouldn't do anything to lower the NOx at idle. Something else is going on! alien

//edit
I see it did pass the idle test, however. So do carry on and keep the above as trivia smile

Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Brandon Clement] #318784
November 20, 2009 04:57 pm UTC
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Brandon I meant, if you had put a EGR with no CAT you would get near the same limits as Putting a Cat with no EGR

Cars with functioning EGRS and Failing cats read over 2000 in nox, and once that cat is put on it reads under 400

Same thing with a EGR, if the EGR is failing and has a functioning cat and reads over 2000 once again the nox would come down when cleaning or replacing the EGR

Do you understand what I am trying to say ?

Last edited by Deep Mann; November 20, 2009 04:59 pm UTC.

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failed Etest #318880
November 22, 2009 05:05 pm UTC
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Hi guys
I just failed etest.

I read from the emission control faq's that the high CO% could be attributed with running rich.
I have a SAFC installed but all the setting were set to 0's accross. Do you think leaning out the safc a little on the low throttle can help me pass the etest?

Also, I realized after doing the etest that my base timing was set to 2 or 3 degree, i am not sure if that has contributed to the failure.

Sorry for the blurry picture.
[Linked Image]

Last edited by Francis kofi; November 22, 2009 05:07 pm UTC.

Hoping that nothing breaks this summer.
Re: failed Etest [Re: Francis kofi] #318881
November 22, 2009 05:12 pm UTC
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Run 87 octane gas. That's what I used and passed.

Good luck.


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Re: failed Etest [Re: Francis kofi] #318882
November 22, 2009 05:13 pm UTC
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Base timing - not enough advance will make it rich, since you don't get a complete burn.
Put some 87 octane in too, it burns quicker.
Go for a highway cruise just before the test.

If that doesn't sort it out, maybe leaning it out a bit will.


1993 Eagle Talon TSi FWD
13.8 @ 106 :::: 14.1 @ 117
Re: failed Etest [Re: Rob Strelecki] #319056
November 25, 2009 12:03 am UTC
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Well the moral of my story is DO Not buy a cat from Canadian Tire,it turns out after putting all the stuff in the car and having it fail again i got them to do the diagnostic on it, and sure enough the cat i bought from crappy tire was a dud had like 10% effiency 140 bucks later and some begging i got him to make the test pass wink wink so now my nox reads zero lol.. Thanks for all your input guys wealth of knowledge on here thats for damn sure..

Re: failed Etest [Re: Michael Muir] #319060
November 25, 2009 01:32 am UTC
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Which cat was it, Magnaflow ?

And Francis did you check how your o2 Sensor was working, looks like it could have been a faulty o2 sensor

Last edited by Deep Mann; November 25, 2009 01:32 am UTC.

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Re: failed Etest [Re: Deep Mann] #319068
November 25, 2009 02:32 am UTC
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I actually got my issue resolved.
I minus the idle -5 and -10 from 2000 to 3000 rpm on my safc.

No idea if the o2 was bad or not, I am getting any codes and the logger shows that it's responding.

I got this
[Linked Image]


Last edited by Francis kofi; November 25, 2009 02:34 am UTC.

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etest help #319151
November 26, 2009 05:44 pm UTC
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91' tsi fwd

Just recently went for an e-test at crappy. They said there was too much blue smoke when they went to do the rolling test.
If the car sits and idles for awhile and then you go to take off that's the only time it smokes.

How much harm does adding those really honey-thick additives to your oil do? You know the 'stop oil burning/leaking' ones.

It's my beater and I'm not concerned about performance anymore, I just don't want to blow it up and pass the e-test so I can get one last year out of it.

Any suggestions?
Thanks


'97 Talon TSi AWD
'92 Talon T/NT For Sale
'00 Subaru Forester
Re: etest help [Re: Kevin Jenkins] #319152
November 26, 2009 05:51 pm UTC
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My old 1.8L DSM had leaky valve seals and smoked just like you described. I switched from regular dino 10w30 to Valvoline MaxLife (high mileage oil) and it greatly reduced the smoke.

I'd be cautious with additives in a turbo motor too smile


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Re: etest help [Re: Rob Strelecki] #319203
November 27, 2009 12:57 pm UTC
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Hmm, I wish I could get as far as the guys did in the thread that my topic was moved to but they wouldn't even test it. Sorry, I thought it was a different issue than these fellows were having as mine has nothing to do with fuel or tuning as I have no way of changing any of those thing on this car.

Thanks for the info Rob, I'll definitely try that.


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'92 Talon T/NT For Sale
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Re: etest help [Re: Kevin Jenkins] #319204
November 27, 2009 01:25 pm UTC
November 27, 2009 01:25 pm UTC
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Brampton
Deep Mann Offline
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Hey Kevin, Go to crappy tire and pick up, Stop Smoke/Stop Leak, I think its called, Put it into your oil and drive around, That's what we recommend to cars that I cannot E-test, And If you E-test them, The machine gets Facked Over


1997 Spyder AWD
GT35R
Re: etest help [Re: Deep Mann] #324388
February 17, 2010 03:14 am UTC
February 17, 2010 03:14 am UTC
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Southern Ontario
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Jon Hosking Offline
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some info for you guys.

Oil changers is an awesome place for an etest. You drive right up and wait maybe 30 mins max(if its busy) and you are out of there fast.

none of this crappy tire 3-4 hour wait or having to make an appt and end up waiting an hour anyways.

ive been as quick as rolling up. paying/doing test and gone all within 10 mins.

I havent gone to crappy tire for an etest in ages since i discovered this little gem of a place.

no i dont work for them. just trying to help members save some time. i know i was tired of the shitty crappy tire service.


w00t
Re: etest help [Re: Jon Hosking] #333683
June 28, 2010 07:16 pm UTC
June 28, 2010 07:16 pm UTC
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Brampton, Ont
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Ed Estoppey Offline
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Hey Guys,
Im a new DSM owner who took ownership of a neglected Eclipse from my roommates ex wife. Its a 97 Eclipse Spyder GS-T and it has some issues, but Id like to get some feedback on what I should do next for repairs. I took the car to get it e-tested expecting it to fail (wanted to see how badly) and it did. The car was throwing the code P0340, so I reset it before the test.

Since failing the test, I replaced the cam sensor, and will have to replace the BOV, because it is broken where the vacuum line goes into it. It was jb welded by someone, but im going to replace it just the same.

How are the boost leak tests done on dsm cars? On my SRT-4, I would attach a fitting on my Turbo and use my compressor to reach 20 pounds of pressure. Is that the same method for dsm cars?

The plugs, wires, coil pack, and oil were changed prior to the e-test. The car is no longer throwing codes since replacing the cam sensor.

[Linked Image]

Thanks for your help
Ed

Re: etest help [Re: Ed Estoppey] #333685
June 28, 2010 07:31 pm UTC
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Rob Strelecki Offline

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Welcome, Ed,

Check out this post (and the Fuel Systems forum) for some emissions ideas..
http://www.ca.dsm.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=174162#Post174162

You can find boost leak test info and other great resources at http://www.vfaq.com

You should do another test after fixing any boost leaks. The bad CAS could have been causing a misfire and boost leaks definitely don't help.

Make sure you reset the ECU after fixing things and drive around for a good while (including a highway pull before the test, to get your cat hot).

Good luck!


1993 Eagle Talon TSi FWD
13.8 @ 106 :::: 14.1 @ 117
Re: etest help [Re: Rob Strelecki] #333704
June 29, 2010 12:26 am UTC
June 29, 2010 12:26 am UTC
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Niagara Falls, Ontario
Ziggy Dietrich Online content
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and some meth in the tank will help with the etest also....
Our old jeep with 580k on the clock just passed smile


"bluebird" worlds fastest scooter ridden by me
"Whitebird" RIP
Re: etest help [Re: Ziggy Dietrich] #333723
June 29, 2010 10:16 am UTC
June 29, 2010 10:16 am UTC
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Sarnia Ontario Canada
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Jamie Best Offline
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Ed, I would assume your converter is bad by now with CO% like that

Last edited by Jamie Best; June 29, 2010 10:18 am UTC. Reason: whoops

Speaking from experience, 1g>2g.
Re: etest help [Re: Jamie Best] #333844
July 01, 2010 04:24 pm UTC
July 01, 2010 04:24 pm UTC
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Brampton, Ont
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Ed Estoppey Offline
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Thanks for the replys guys, I have been picking at the car a bit, and yesterday I decided to run a can of seafoam through it. When the car was sucking the can of seafoam, I noticed seafoam leaking out between the turbo and manifold so I decided to take the turbo heatshield off to check for loose bolts, heres what I found LOL:
[Linked Image]

3 of the 4 bolts were loose, one of them were completely undone. I tightened the bolts and stopped the leak. Im wondering if that would contribute to the fail. I also purchased a 1g stock Bov, I just have to find a way to rig it up to work, then I will attempt to e-test it again.

Ed

Re: etest help [Re: Ed Estoppey] #333866
July 02, 2010 03:37 am UTC
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Rob Strelecki Offline

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Yep, exhaust leaks before the O2 sensor can throw it off and your ECU may dump extra fuel.

Re: etest help [Re: Rob Strelecki] #333873
July 02, 2010 06:22 am UTC
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Oshawa
Neal Thibault Offline
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Could yes.....But could be worse laugh!!!!!!!!


98 GSX Eclipse/E3 16g/Full V3/ And more.
Re: etest help [Re: Neal Thibault] #333898
July 02, 2010 10:04 pm UTC
July 02, 2010 10:04 pm UTC
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Etobicoke
James Karban Offline
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You need a new catalytic converter for sure, those numbers are very high.


2005 BMW 330ci ZHP

---Sold----
1997 GST Spyder
1997 Talon AWD
Re: etest help [Re: James Karban] #334026
July 05, 2010 04:25 pm UTC
July 05, 2010 04:25 pm UTC
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Brampton, Ont
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Ed Estoppey Offline
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Well I passed the e-test today smile
Im pretty happy with that, All it took was a new cam sensor, tighten the bolts for the turbo, and a can of seafoam. Thanks for all your help guys!

Ed

[Linked Image]

Re: etest help [Re: Ed Estoppey] #346469
February 14, 2011 07:21 pm UTC
February 14, 2011 07:21 pm UTC
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Ontario
Nick Gallo Online content
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Hey guys,

I'm currently trying to get my Talon dd status. I just got it saftied and all thats left is passing my emissions test. I went in Feb 10/11 and did all the above: 91 octane, meth, raise idle rpm to 1150, no boost leaks, no exhaust leaks. I almost passed but failed Idle CO by 3 points..

Heres my mod list:
Stock 7 bolt (175psi on all 4 cyl)
PTE 1000cc injectors
BPR6ES plugs gapped to .28
New tayler 8mm wires
AFPR set to 43.5psi
Blocked off EGR
3" turbo back with hollowed out cat
Dsmlink v3 lite w/ evo 8 fuel and timing maps
AEM UEGO

Just before I went in to the test I bumped up the idle rpm, raised the timing +5 deg from 0-3000rpm, Added 2 bottles of meth, and set my global to -58.6 and deadtime to 345. My COMBFT was at like +23..

[Linked Image]



I forgot to zero out my MAF COMP table as it was adjusted for the 1000cc injectors with global being -53.1 deadtime 345.

[Linked Image]



If I zero out the MAF Comp table will I lean it out and make be pass or should I increase it? Im confused here and I believe this is the final step to making it pass without a cat.



Last edited by Nick Gallo; February 14, 2011 07:29 pm UTC.

1999 GSX
Re: etest help [Re: Nick Gallo] #346501
February 15, 2011 03:31 am UTC
February 15, 2011 03:31 am UTC
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Belleville, Ontario
Ryan Laliberte Offline OP

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Idle shows a richer mixture, and your MAFComp is actually telling the ECU to increase fueling.

Send me a log of idle. milcan21@hotmail.com


AWDAuto
1996 TSi AWD Automagic
12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G
FP Green HTA - 11.42/123
Team Pump Gas and Meth
RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts

"Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim Carrey
Re: etest help [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #348987
March 25, 2011 12:36 am UTC
March 25, 2011 12:36 am UTC
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cobourg ontario
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codey wood-trbovschek Offline
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hey guys, im having some trouble myself passing my etest. I've had two test done so far, the first one i had my idle set around 1100 rpm i believe(i have a data logger)and these are my results

HC-58-59 200-186
CO-.32-.57 1.00-.07
NO-435-1375 n/a-n/a

so i only passed the curb idle section

I had a new cat put on and from what the logger was reading i believe that my o2 sensor is ok.

I went back for my second test today, i believe the timing on the logger was reading 7* and my idle was about 750 and these are the results i came with

HC-58-13 200-16
CO-.32-.00 1.00-.00
NO-435-714 n/a-na

so I passed everything except the NO just from changing the cat and setting my idle back, I go back tomorrow for a retest and im wondering what I should try to get it to pass? Set the idle higher again? I've read threw 2 different threads on here and im still a little confused and only had my talon for about 8 months so any help would be greatly appreciated. My car is fairly stock still


Re: etest help [Re: codey wood-trbovschek] #348996
March 25, 2011 09:58 am UTC
March 25, 2011 09:58 am UTC
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Belleville, Ontario
Ryan Laliberte Offline OP

No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
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Try changing your plugs, oil and air filter. Only run NGK BR6ES plugs


AWDAuto
1996 TSi AWD Automagic
12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G
FP Green HTA - 11.42/123
Team Pump Gas and Meth
RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts

"Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim Carrey
Re: etest help [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #349031
March 26, 2011 04:25 pm UTC
March 26, 2011 04:25 pm UTC
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Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Brandon Clement Offline
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BPR6ES


No more Jetta!
Tattoo Artist at Lost Anchor
Re: etest help [Re: Brandon Clement] #349082
March 28, 2011 03:15 pm UTC
March 28, 2011 03:15 pm UTC
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,746
Belleville, Ontario
Ryan Laliberte Offline OP

No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
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BPR6ES are projected plugs, to keep knock down you can run BR6ES Non-Projected plugs. wink


AWDAuto
1996 TSi AWD Automagic
12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G
FP Green HTA - 11.42/123
Team Pump Gas and Meth
RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts

"Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim Carrey
Re: etest help [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #349096
March 28, 2011 07:01 pm UTC
March 28, 2011 07:01 pm UTC
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cobourg ontario
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codey wood-trbovschek Offline
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So I've picked up new plugs and installed them and now I have a couple days till I go for a retest.

This might not be right section for the second question I have but both have to do with my test.

I have a maft setup that I've been waiting to install, if I installed this and had a set for my cars settings would it affect the etest in terms of helping it?
My second question is about the throttle body, I have a n/t one that came with me maft setup; the gm maf attached to piping which is then attached to the throttle body. Using this setup would be much easier then having to cut my current uicp. The n/t throttle body only has 3 vacuum lines on the top as compared to the turbo one with the 4th coming on a angle? If I was to put the n/t on what should be done with that 4th line?

Re: etest help [Re: codey wood-trbovschek] #349111
March 28, 2011 10:38 pm UTC
March 28, 2011 10:38 pm UTC
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Luke Decking Offline
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I always found it less stressful just to grease the wheels so to speak or just pay for a slip if you know what I mean wink

Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Brandon Clement] #349236
March 30, 2011 03:18 pm UTC
March 30, 2011 03:18 pm UTC
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cobourg ontario
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codey wood-trbovschek Offline
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Easier said then done around here, I used to know a guy but he's changed shops

Re: E-Test from hell [Re: codey wood-trbovschek] #351792
April 28, 2011 07:23 pm UTC
April 28, 2011 07:23 pm UTC
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Windsor
Mike Lane Offline
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I just failed miserably.
2500 RPM:
HC ppm Limit: 150 Reaading 287 (FAIL)
CO% Limit: .70 Reading.83 (FAIL)

RPM 2633
Dilution 15.3

IDLE RPM:
HC ppm Limit: 150 Reading 589 (VERRYY FAILED)
CO% Limit: .70 Reading .11 (Pass)

RPM 1114
Dilution 15.1


98GSX Black:1st car/resto proj
97 acura el stolen/found
99GSX Red
RIP 86 turbo ZX, 92 turbo 2000GTX
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Mike Lane] #351802
April 28, 2011 08:37 pm UTC
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Rob Strelecki Offline

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Maybe it's that possible oil burning as you suggested in your other thread!
Seems likely.. Do a compression test or better a leak-down test.

Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Mike Lane] #351803
April 28, 2011 08:39 pm UTC
April 28, 2011 08:39 pm UTC
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Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Brandon Clement Offline
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How new is your front o2 sensor?


No more Jetta!
Tattoo Artist at Lost Anchor
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Brandon Clement] #351807
April 29, 2011 12:06 am UTC
April 29, 2011 12:06 am UTC
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Windsor
Mike Lane Offline
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I ve been meaning to order a leakdown tester. Front O2 I have never touched. I might try for the conditional pass so I dont have to mess around. Seems like there is no shure solution. (like usual lol)


98GSX Black:1st car/resto proj
97 acura el stolen/found
99GSX Red
RIP 86 turbo ZX, 92 turbo 2000GTX
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Mike Lane] #351826
April 29, 2011 02:51 am UTC
April 29, 2011 02:51 am UTC
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Ontario
Nick Gallo Online content
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Did they lower the CO% !? When i was tested in Feebruary it was 1.00 as the limit now its .70??


1999 GSX
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Nick Gallo] #351831
April 29, 2011 05:49 am UTC
April 29, 2011 05:49 am UTC
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Brandon Clement Offline
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What voltage is v3 showing for your front o2


No more Jetta!
Tattoo Artist at Lost Anchor
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Brandon Clement] #353354
May 18, 2011 11:31 pm UTC
May 18, 2011 11:31 pm UTC
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Lucian Marta Offline
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Okay, I just failed miserably...

My HC at idle was 2,3XX the limit is 200, I'm over 11 times the limit. We leaned it with 'Link to the point the WB didn't even read, had 1L of meth in 1/4 tank of 87 octane gasoline, and idle was bouncing around 1,100 RPM. I have a cat as well, however I have a 272/272 cam combo, which I think is what caused such high HC. CO it passed easily. At 2,600 RPM I failed CO (barely though) yet passed HC.

Any ideas? Is it possible to pass with 272's?


2008 Evo GSR
1993 TSi AWD
2001 CBR600 F4i
2008 Escape 4WD
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Lucian Marta] #353565
May 21, 2011 01:06 pm UTC
May 21, 2011 01:06 pm UTC
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Belleville, Ontario
Ryan Laliberte Offline OP

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Yes it's possible to pass with 272's.

High HC at idle means too much of some sort of Hydrocarbon (I.E: High fuel pressure, burning oil [valve stem seals] etc).

Look into your PCV system, and if you are burning oil at idle. Also, a 255HP on a stock FPR may be overrunning it and you could have a rich condition at idle.

A poor cat will also cause you to fail.



AWDAuto
1996 TSi AWD Automagic
12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G
FP Green HTA - 11.42/123
Team Pump Gas and Meth
RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts

"Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim Carrey
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #353571
May 21, 2011 05:51 pm UTC
May 21, 2011 05:51 pm UTC
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Lucian Marta Offline
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Thanks Ryan.

However, fuel pressure was actually lowered from stock. It does not burn oil, as the valve stem seals have been replaced a 600 KMs ago, and the rings are good (good compression) Unless it's the turbo...

My PCV system is good, I got a new OEM PCV valve. And the 255 is run using an AFPR.

As for cat, I know it's there (not punched out) however it's a 3" cat. Not sure on condition or age.


2008 Evo GSR
1993 TSi AWD
2001 CBR600 F4i
2008 Escape 4WD
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Lucian Marta] #353583
May 21, 2011 09:48 pm UTC
May 21, 2011 09:48 pm UTC
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KEVIN KIRELUK Offline
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scarboro raised but now oshawa...
Originally Posted by Lucian Marta
Okay, I just failed miserably...

My HC at idle was 2,3XX the limit is 200, I'm over 11 times the limit. We leaned it with 'Link to the point the WB didn't even read, had 1L of meth


Going too rich or too lean will cause emmissions to rise. You want a stoich mixture(14.7:1afr) and then run the optimal timing for the most complete burn.


TPG+Meth
You can't tune out mechanical problems!!!
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: KEVIN KIRELUK] #353584
May 21, 2011 09:58 pm UTC
May 21, 2011 09:58 pm UTC
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Hamilton Ontario Canada
Paul Petricca Offline
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Remove your exhaust manifold to see if any of the ports are wet. When your HC's are that high you can bet your sorry butt you're burning oil. Who installed the valve stem seals?

Last edited by Paul Petricca; May 21, 2011 10:09 pm UTC. Reason: error

1991 Laser RS turbo
1993 Talon TSi AWD
http://www.infowars.com
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Paul Petricca] #353585
May 21, 2011 10:43 pm UTC
May 21, 2011 10:43 pm UTC
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Ontario
Nick Gallo Online content
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I did most of them and luci did maybe a few.

I did the exact same method to replace lucian's as I did on my own and to this day I dont burn oil.

And yes we did tap them into place to make sure they were seated lol.


1999 GSX
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Nick Gallo] #353608
May 22, 2011 05:20 pm UTC
May 22, 2011 05:20 pm UTC
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Lucian Marta Offline
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Paul,

I don't see any blue smoke out the exhaust, at any point. It could be idling for 20 minutes, and I romp on it and it's clean. It just smells extremely rich.

Before when I had bad valve stem seals on 2 of the 4 cylinders, it smoked really bad at idle, and when I took off after burping the bubbles out of the cooling system I covered the whole street in blue smoke. When I pulled back, I could still see the blue smoke linger 100 meters down the street, where I turned around, and the other 100 meters back. And I am not exaggerating lol

I think if my valve stem seals were really that bad, it would show at the 2,500 RPM test as well, which it passed extremely well for hydrocarbons.


2008 Evo GSR
1993 TSi AWD
2001 CBR600 F4i
2008 Escape 4WD
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Lucian Marta] #353612
May 22, 2011 06:46 pm UTC
May 22, 2011 06:46 pm UTC
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Hamilton Ontario Canada
Paul Petricca Offline
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Yeah I have to agree with HC's low at 2500 that it was sensing unburnt fuel more than anything at idle Lucian. Check with your logger to see that your 02 is cycling normally at idle. Did you remove your O2 and give it a good wipe after changing valve seals? When your car was in oil burning mode, that would've certainly killed your O2 in no time.


1991 Laser RS turbo
1993 Talon TSi AWD
http://www.infowars.com
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Mike Lane] #353854
May 25, 2011 11:38 pm UTC
May 25, 2011 11:38 pm UTC
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Ottawa, ON
Mike Eng Offline
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I'm not sure if anyone has made mention of this in previous posts but I found an e-test facility that ASKS YOU if your car is a "HOT ROD" , answering yes to this and providing them copies of invoices or recepits, or some other document from a certified garage and mechanic, signed. Proving to them the modifications to your car are factual, actually increases your limits and makes passing a lot easier.

Hope this is of some help to you guys!

Last edited by Mike Eng; May 25, 2011 11:50 pm UTC.

'99 GSX GT35R
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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Mike Eng] #353856
May 25, 2011 11:42 pm UTC
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And what does that signed document say?

"So and So's car is a hot rod?"

- Signed Bob the mechanic?


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'97 Eclipse Spyder - RIP. Oct 1/11
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Mike Petro] #353857
May 25, 2011 11:49 pm UTC
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Mike Eng Offline
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Mike,

My car has a 6bolt swap and bunch of other stuff in it. I had an invoice of over $5gs from HP Autosport (Danny Falardeau on the board) and gave them a photocopy of it. Watched the tech do the test. Watched him INPUT in his computer when prompted with the question of "is this vehicle a hot rod"..answered yes, and although my car didn't pass it's first or second run (first being a normal etest) I noticed the limits were increased. I'll post pictures of my results and show you I'm not BSing. But I love your sarcasm wink

Thanks,
Mike


'99 GSX GT35R
'03 CBR 600RR
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Mike Petro] #353858
May 25, 2011 11:49 pm UTC
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I read something about that a while back when strokers were all the rage. I have no idea if it's true, but they said the motor has to be completely different from what came with the car. So basically if you have any Mitsu 4cyl in your DSM, you're getting the normal test.

Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Rob Strelecki] #353860
May 26, 2011 12:02 am UTC
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here's your typical test. We can call it Exibit A
[Linked Image]

And Exibit B HOT ROD STATUS wink
[Linked Image]


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Mike Eng] #353886
May 26, 2011 01:00 pm UTC
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I took my car to canadian tire. asked the guy at the counter if it can be tested as a hotrod. he said NO it has to go through the ministry. blah blah. it needs to be registered, yadda yadda.

Then when the tech was setting up I asked him if he can test it as a hotrod.

He said he has never done it before, asked me a bunch of questions, what motor is actually in it, how much the displacement increased. Then we got shooting the sh!t about my mods.

He went to the computer and started trying to figure out the etest thing. He went through all the steps for a hotrod test on the computer and got me setup!


Too bad something else was horribly wrong and I still didnt pass.


Stock.
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #355213
June 11, 2011 01:27 am UTC
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Thought I would share my results:
Test 1
2500 Test
HC = 714 (limit 200)
CO = 10.41 (limit 1.00)
Idle Test
HC = 110 (limit 200)
CO = 0.03 (limit 1.00)
Result = Epic fail. They actually laughed as they told me the results.

Test 2
HC = 19 (limit 200)
CO = 0.00 (limit 1.00)
Idle Test
HC = 36 (limit 200)
CO = 0.00 (limit 1.00)
Result = Easy pass

Relevant info: 272 regrind cams, 1000cc injectors, 3" exhaust (with OEM CAT grafted in), stock 2G MAF.

After the first test, I found a boost leak had developed around the BOV. The effect was that at higher rpm (2500) the turbo was start to push a bit of metered air (BB turbo) out the leak causing a very rich condition. Fixed the boost leak and went for the second test.
Best part was total cost for the fix was $0.

Lesson learned, check for boost leaks BEFORE e-test.


97 Eclipse GSX
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Jamie Valcamp] #355219
June 11, 2011 03:34 am UTC
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Naice!!!


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ghislain Goudreau] #355729
June 19, 2011 12:54 am UTC
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When I had my saturn, I could leave a blue cloud of smoke the whole distance of an on ramp the 401. And it passed the etest with flying colours! The guy said the etest cant see oil burning but the 02 could and would fail it. Mine never failed and I burned thru 2 litres a week.

He also said they look under the hood to ssee if its a stock engine, ifnot they run it as a hotrod.



11.81@119.

Or 12.04@125

Depends how I launch.
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Jay Stacey] #355732
June 19, 2011 01:06 am UTC
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I had a Celica that i swapped the motor from the 2.0 to the 2.2. Of course when i ran the test i failed. I let them know that i swapped motors and he did the test again and i passed with no problem.

I find the smaller shops dont care as much. I have a shop in Oakville that suggested i run my eclipse as a hot rod considering i was concerned about passing with all my mods. He said bring it in and he will run it as a hot rod and as long as i have a CAT i should pass.


99 Eclipse GST RIP
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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #357349
July 15, 2011 02:36 am UTC
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Originally Posted by Mike Kuttschrutter
I took my car to canadian tire. asked the guy at the counter if it can be tested as a hotrod. he said NO it has to go through the ministry. blah blah. it needs to be registered, yadda yadda.

Then when the tech was setting up I asked him if he can test it as a hotrod.

He said he has never done it before, asked me a bunch of questions, what motor is actually in it, how much the displacement increased. Then we got shooting the sh!t about my mods.

He went to the computer and started trying to figure out the etest thing. He went through all the steps for a hotrod test on the computer and got me setup!


Too bad something else was horribly wrong and I still didnt pass.


Ok, first off the counter guy better have been certified to answer Drive Clean questions or he was misleading customers and spreading rumour. You have to have a minimum 1 Advisor trained in the Drive Clean Inspection process and customer relation, while you also need an Inspector to perform the tests. At least you got a nice guy for the inspection. From all the paperwork I have read for running E-test's, you will need a signed document from a dealership or like representative entity that would have sold your car "NEW", stating that the block - READ not motor - is not the original AND it was not commercially available in that chassis during the cars production. So, with that said this is what needs to happen to qualify, technically for both the shop and the customer.

Signed document from dealership showing block is not the original displacement block original to this car at any time during the production of that vehicle.
If the block is originally a 2.0L and you upgrade it with a stroker setup, but retain the block - this does NOT qualify - I would not know if anyone has contacted the Ministry to see if they do though!
If the block is originally a 1.6L and you upgrade by swapping in a 2.0L block, not commercially available in that chassis, then you qualify for HOT ROD status.
Guys with 350 chev blocks can mod their crank setup all they want, but unless they can prove the block is something like a 302 Ford block, they also would not comply with the HOT ROD standard.
Cars from 2000ish forward, that install a block other than stock, have to comply with a much stricter set of emissions and probably, from what I remember, the emissions for that year vehicle regardless of their motor. Much harder to get around that one around here, and be legitimate.

Now, the Drive Clean facility has to keep a copy of the document you provide on hand, in case the Ministry/Auditor decides to show up. For a number of reasons, Red Flags show up in the online upload process when your "Hot Rod" test is sent out via the modem line all Drive Clean machines are hooked in with to the main server. Much like when a 2 speed idle test is performed, this is also a Red Flag in the system. This just lets you know that the shop doing the test, could also be on the hook if they don't follow the proper procedures. This is what I know of the setup, and how it is run.
I have read the manuals and used because I am a ......... (fill in the blank) E-XXXX Inspector. The word you are looking for is "certified". spy

Random road side testing(?)document I found while searching for Online documents to back this up, but alas, only the paper copies in the DCF's (Driveclean Facilities) are where this is all printed.

http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/stdprodconsume/groups/lr/@ene/@resources/documents/resource/stdprod_080001.pdf


If you go in for an E-test and they pull any sort of stunt beyond what is written here, ask them to show you their book and the pages supporting that information. They must do it, and that book must be handy. Should be a large binder with lots of paper in it. naughty If the shop refuses, you have the right to call the Ministry and complain and you can bet somebody other than you is going to get their wrists slapped.

I decided to write this because it sounds like a lot of misinformation is going around, and nobody seems to have an inside eye on this, except a rare few. This should all be public knowledge and there is no harm in posting this, nothing is hidden from the public in this regard, it just isn't on your side of the counter unless you ask for it specifically. I have seen documents provided to one customer that had a VR6 motor swap in a Jetta, but no emissions hooked in at any point. Fail, get us a document proving your car did not have that motor, and get some emissions - heck even just to make it look functional! Guy was in his 50's and getting his car tested 1 hour before having to be at the airport, or some such story. Calmly provide a piece of paper saying why the car cannot be tested at that time, and a photocopy of the document from the binder, stating exactly why he was prevented from even having the test run - Failed preliminary check. Unless the system has changed since I certified and even re-certified 1-2 years ago, this should all be good.

I am all for fun cars, but this guy did not have a clue, and a shop does not want a fine because the fines are BIG. Drive Clean is a no money making situation regardless .... except for the Government. This isn't a shot at anybody here, just saw the post I quoted here, and thought this may help.

Last edited by Tim Eagles; July 15, 2011 02:36 am UTC.
Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #380253
July 24, 2012 10:25 pm UTC
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Well, went to get an Etest today and felt like testing out some theories.
First off, failed everything. lol

Idle test
HC ppm limit 200 reading 261 FAIL
CO% limit 1.00 reading 1.28 FAIL
RPM 959
Dilution 13.4

2500rpm test
HC ppm limit 200 reading 320 FAIL
CO% limit 1.00 reading 5.43 FAIL
RPM 0
Dilution 15.7

At least I passed the gas cap pressure tongue
Now, keep in mind I tried doing this with no cat and running a 5:1 91/meth mix. I only gave meth a shot for the etest because I've had a number of people tell me that it burns cleaner and will lower numbers and now we all know what it will look like with no cat

I have a copy of the tune and a sample etest routine if anyone is interested in taking a peek to see if I can improve that anywhere. Would be appreciated.

Anywho, I'm going to throw a Cat insert in there and go test it again later in the week. Hopefully it works unless anyone has other suggestions.

Last edited by Johnny Larmond; July 24, 2012 11:03 pm UTC.

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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #380259
July 24, 2012 11:16 pm UTC
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Mike Eng Offline
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try the hot rod thing.


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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #380260
July 24, 2012 11:18 pm UTC
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Just checked the numbers for that actually. Idle - Pass 2500rpm - BOMB


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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Mike Eng] #380261
July 24, 2012 11:18 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by Mike Eng
here's your typical test. We can call it Exibit A
[Linked Image]

And Exibit B HOT ROD STATUS wink
[Linked Image]


I remember I tweaked with my TPS for the idle issue. Was sitting at 1100 before. Then targeted for the 800 range.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Mike Eng; July 24, 2012 11:20 pm UTC.

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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #380263
July 24, 2012 11:28 pm UTC
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If I do get the hotrod status, then the 2500 is my issue, not the idle test.


'97 GSX - DD and running strong
'99 GSX Spyder - Running strong
'99 GS - zzzz.

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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #380265
July 24, 2012 11:40 pm UTC
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check those limits. you'll be fine! smile


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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #380268
July 25, 2012 12:04 am UTC
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HC limit is 300. I did 320
CO limit is 1.5. I did 5.43
lol

From what I'm seeing here, the optimal e-test setup is -5*, no boost leaks, a little meth, and being able to drive right into the facility from the highway. Not to mention a functioning O2 and a cat.

I've had my EGR blocked since the day I got this car and have never had any issues passing. Then again, I don't need to NO test.


'97 GSX - DD and running strong
'99 GSX Spyder - Running strong
'99 GS - zzzz.

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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #380269
July 25, 2012 12:20 am UTC
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wow I really am developing a bad habit of scan reading.

you're right. you need to plumb a catcon in there.


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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #380270
July 25, 2012 12:20 am UTC
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I'd lend you mine if you weren't so far away tongue


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Re: Emissions Test - Merged. [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #380274
July 25, 2012 12:35 am UTC
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Haha, yea... I'm going to fab something up tonight. Hopefully it'll work out. I'll be sure to take some pictures along the way.


'97 GSX - DD and running strong
'99 GSX Spyder - Running strong
'99 GS - zzzz.

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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413672
September 18, 2013 09:20 pm UTC
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so, I ran into another problem trying to get my Spyder etested.....
There are no current VIN plates on the vehicle as they were all destroyed by the wrecker I got it from. I did however manage to get the VIN and obtain a title for the vehicle with plates.

I have no doubt in my mind that the vehicle will pass the test, my issue now is getting the test performed with no VIN plate on the car, only on the ownership.
Anyone have any experience in this, advice, or little tips/tricks?
I'm hoping to get this sorted tomorrow as my safety expired the next day and I have to leave for Calgary....

BTW, I did pass my GSX etest last year with my CAT insert wink Worked flawlessly.

Last edited by Johnny Larmond; September 18, 2013 09:22 pm UTC.

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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413673
September 18, 2013 09:29 pm UTC
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Is it Branded and revined?

Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413676
September 18, 2013 10:14 pm UTC
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Salomon Ponte Online content
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As far as the MTO knows, it is the same car all along. smile

(And that is the car that the 'new' vin plates came from.

Last edited by Salomon Ponte; September 18, 2013 10:15 pm UTC.

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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413678
September 18, 2013 11:22 pm UTC
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So it has no tags on the car? Dash, fenders, door jams, hatch? Just the ones in Johnny's pocket?

Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413682
September 19, 2013 12:36 am UTC
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Yup.


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413684
September 19, 2013 12:43 am UTC
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Then he might be fracked. He will have to speak to the guys doing the test though. I asume he has to run the OBD2 test being a 99.

Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413691
September 19, 2013 01:22 am UTC
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No VIN plates anywhere on the vehicle. Door, dash, or engine bay. I don't even think I've seen a stick on any of the fenders either but I can't say I looked that hard.
My bad, it's actually a '97 VIN


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'99 GSX Spyder - Running strong
'99 GS - zzzz.

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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413692
September 19, 2013 01:24 am UTC
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Yeah, it's a '97 VIN, so he should get a sniffer test. And, since it's now AWD he can probably even convince them to run it as a hotrod, if he can convince them to run it at all.


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413693
September 19, 2013 01:37 am UTC
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The no vin tag might be the kicker. We use a bar code reader. But thats not to say you cant manually input them. Depends on the place. Johnny will have to talk to them.

Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413720
September 19, 2013 04:22 am UTC
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I might have worked something out for tomorrow morning. Every place I was in contact with today said "pfft. yea, right...." I understand where they're coming from, just a PITA for me....


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'99 GSX Spyder - Running strong
'99 GS - zzzz.

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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413749
September 19, 2013 03:28 pm UTC
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I have a bit of experience with this because I also have a (completely legit) weird VIN on one of my cars. Unfortunately I don't have good news...

On 99% of cars they can scan the VIN and it automatically enters into the computer. They *can* enter it manually, although they might say they can't. But if they enter it manually then they're subject to additional scrutiny and audit from MTO. So they'll want to match the VIN on the ownership against the VIN on the car (red flag), take pictures of your VIN (red flag) and so on. At the end of the test an MTO guy might pop up on the screen and ask for additional info via Web cam.

You only hope is to find someone lazy that just enters the VIN without checking against the car, and the MTO guy is sleeping during your test.

I'd look into getting it fixed. I wonder if you can order a new door jamb sticker from Chrysler/Mitsu.

Last edited by Jeff Mitchell; September 19, 2013 03:43 pm UTC.
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413750
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I did manage to find a shop in the US that can produce the B-pillar sticker, but it has to be ordered through a collision shop and they're $80each.

I was speaking to someone at Mitsubishi a while back and they said that they can get new stickers and plates but it's quite the ordeal. Someone from head office needs to be there to install it and blah blah blah.


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413751
September 19, 2013 03:43 pm UTC
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Push Mitsu for a new door jamb sticker. The "guy from head office" sounds like a BS excuse from someone that didn't want to help. Cars get repaired / repainted all the time and some of them need new stickers.

Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413753
September 19, 2013 03:50 pm UTC
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Wouldn't be faster to just re vin at the MTO. Those Auditors can be real dicks sometimes and they can jump in anytime during the test.

Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413756
September 19, 2013 04:33 pm UTC
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How about making your own barcode?

http://www.barcoding.com/upc/
The barcode type is supposedly "Code 39"

Get an image of a legit sticker, break out Photoshop, insert your proper barcode and other specific info (if any), print it out, get a clear sticker and stick it on. If it scans correctly, no one is going to look at it twice. You can test the scan with your smartphone, I just used "Red Laser" to test reading it on my truck, no problem. It even identified the barcode type as "Code 39".


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Rob Greer] #413757
September 19, 2013 04:49 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by Rob Greer
How about making your own barcode?

http://www.barcoding.com/upc/
The barcode type is supposedly "Code 39"

Get an image of a legit sticker, break out Photoshop, insert your proper barcode and other specific info (if any), print it out, get a clear sticker and stick it on. If it scans correctly, no one is going to look at it twice. You can test the scan with your smartphone, I just used "Red Laser" to test reading it on my truck, no problem. It even identified the barcode type as "Code 39".


tu Just what me and Johnny discussed over the phone yesterday smile I sent him template already


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #413763
September 19, 2013 06:03 pm UTC
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All is taken care of for the time being, but I will be doing research into a new b pillar sticker in the near future

FYI, the code for our VIN I believe is Code 39 Full ASCII. It is the closest I could find.

Thanks for all the input and help folks!

Last edited by Johnny Larmond; September 19, 2013 06:07 pm UTC.

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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Jeff Mitchell] #413764
September 19, 2013 06:08 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by Jeff Mitchell
Push Mitsu for a new door jamb sticker. The "guy from head office" sounds like a BS excuse from someone that didn't want to help. Cars get repaired / repainted all the time and some of them need new stickers.


Touche.....


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #442820
August 27, 2015 08:04 pm UTC
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An interesting article for those who are looking to refine their emissions tune

http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/impp-1109-how-to-cheat-an-emissions-test/


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #450239
August 15, 2016 03:33 pm UTC
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http://www.canadianautodealer.ca/2016/03/ontario-cancels-drive-clean-test-fee/

Can anyone confirm this? Would bexpect freaking awesome if it's true!


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'99 GS - zzzz.

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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #450241
August 15, 2016 03:42 pm UTC
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Yeah it's true, they have been talking about it for a while but now they are trying to force safety more often.


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #450242
August 15, 2016 03:42 pm UTC
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Like the article says, they need to cancel the whole stupid program. It doesn't do anything good for anybody.


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #450268
August 16, 2016 05:27 pm UTC
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You think drive clean is bad... just wait... Safeties every 2nd year!

Quote
Officials with an automotive industry association want Ontario drivers to get their vehicles inspected every other year, but they still have work to do to get some other groups on board with the idea.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/ontario-vehicle-safety-checks-1.3696315

Last edited by Charles Lavoie; August 16, 2016 05:28 pm UTC.

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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #450269
August 16, 2016 09:18 pm UTC
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They have been doing this in Germany for some time, and they are REALLY strict...no unsafe cars on the road there!


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ziggy Dietrich] #450273
August 17, 2016 01:58 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Dietrich
They have been doing this in Germany for some time, and they are REALLY strict...no unsafe cars on the road there!


If they give us an Autobahn.. I will gladly accept safeties every 2 years tongue


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #450274
August 17, 2016 04:05 pm UTC
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They will never give us an autobahn here....people would have to learn to drive first, and that is never going to happen here.


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #450276
August 17, 2016 04:06 pm UTC
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Lol yeah. People already freak out doing 115 in the hammer lane. Would be a sh!t show if they have to go any faster.


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #450277
August 17, 2016 04:16 pm UTC
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Not so much that they would have to go faster, but they would need to learn to make lane changes and stay out of the left hand lane. Riding in the left lane like lemmings would NOT be tolerated on the autobahn.


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #450278
August 17, 2016 04:52 pm UTC
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What *would* be nice and probably more realistic would be variable speed limits, particularly for super straight and typically empty sections of road like the 401 between Windsor and London (empty during non-business hours/weekend mornings) and the 402. When I'm driving back to Michigan in the middle of the night and I'm the only car in either direction for miles there's no reason I shouldn't be able to go 180 if the road and weather conditions allow it (here's where the variable part comes into play), instead of locked in at 120 because anything over that and you'll get pulled over by a bored OPP officer.


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #450279
August 17, 2016 05:14 pm UTC
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I always do variable when it's late at night, or at least I used to as I am not normally driving at that time.

If you haven't gotten it yet get Waze, I go 120 up highway 10 all the time during rush hour because it's almost gauranteed that another wazer has already done the route recently and will mark police if they see them


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #450280
August 17, 2016 06:00 pm UTC
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I know there was talk of upping the limits to 120km/h here in Quebec. Texas already has 85 MPH, about 135km/h.

It'll probably never happen though.


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #450281
August 17, 2016 06:23 pm UTC
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All the highways here in Michigan are 70mph i.e. 112kph, but you can always get away with at least 80 (128 kph) and most of the time 85-90mph (136-144kph) without worry.

To be fair, on the 400 series of highways it's almost always fine to do 125 without worry of being pulled over. 130 they don't often bug you either if the road conditions allow it.

I've driven some of the 80mph highways out in the AZ/CA area of the states and it's pretty nice doing 90-95mph without worrying about getting pulled over.

Last edited by Salomon Ponte; August 17, 2016 06:25 pm UTC.

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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Salomon Ponte] #450283
August 17, 2016 06:32 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by Salomon Ponte
To be fair, on the 400 series of highways it's almost always fine to do 125 without worry of being pulled over. 130 they don't often bug you either if the road conditions allow it.


In the city area. As soon as there's green/ditches between directions, like you said cops are bored, and will pull you over for 120 if they feel like it. If you're doing 130 on the western part of the 403 just before it dumps into the 401 by Woodstock, you will be getting a ticket spy


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #450284
August 17, 2016 06:46 pm UTC
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There will never be higher than 100 here. Environmental reasons are top of the things blocking it. (insider tip)

In the states, I am too paranoid to go over by more than 5mph. I notice new york plates here in Ontario don't go over posted by much.

+1 on waze. I have it on at all times on the highways. Saved my ass many times. I am a Royalty Wazer now smile Ranking 14,756! (76,447 points)

Last edited by Charles Lavoie; August 17, 2016 06:46 pm UTC.

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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #450286
August 17, 2016 07:10 pm UTC
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Nice work Chuck! My account got reset at least once during the google transition and a phone change so I lost everything but I am a Knight Wazer, 25,772 points here.


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Lucian Marta] #450288
August 17, 2016 07:39 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by Lucian Marta
Originally Posted by Salomon Ponte
To be fair, on the 400 series of highways it's almost always fine to do 125 without worry of being pulled over. 130 they don't often bug you either if the road conditions allow it.


In the city area. As soon as there's green/ditches between directions, like you said cops are bored, and will pull you over for 120 if they feel like it. If you're doing 130 on the western part of the 403 just before it dumps into the 401 by Woodstock, you will be getting a ticket spy


I do know that section is particularly bad for cops. I never took the 403 much (especially not going West) but never take it now that my gf doesn't live downtown anymore so it's one less thing to worry about, thankfully. I do always find it amusing when I'm cruising at 120-125 in the middle of Sunday night driving back to MI and then a car blows by me only for me to pass them pulled over 10k up the road, often times with more than one cop car behind them (i.e. >50 over). When you're the only car on the road, you have the cops FULL attention...don't be stupid. People never learn.

I've never used Waze...heard it's brutal on batteries. How is it on data?

Last edited by Salomon Ponte; August 17, 2016 07:39 pm UTC.

'92 Talon TSi AWD - 5 Speed/E16G/12.385s @ 115.13mph
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Charles Lavoie] #450289
August 17, 2016 07:44 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by Charles Lavoie
In the states, I am too paranoid to go over by more than 5mph. I notice new york plates here in Ontario don't go over posted by much.


Certain states are worse than others, NY being one of them, almost on par with Quebec, speed traps everywhere, at all hours.

PA, Ohio, FL, VT, NH and ME are pretty lenient from my past experience. I have 3 written warnings from VT lol.

I've traveled across New Brunswick more than a handful of times and seen a cop, oh, twice maybe. NB is a 110kmh province btw.


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Salomon Ponte] #450293
August 17, 2016 08:27 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by Salomon Ponte
I've never used Waze...heard it's brutal on batteries. How is it on data?
All GPS is never fantastic on battery, my phone is always plugged in when using it and my phone still charges with 2a. Data use is pretty minimal, used 70 mb last month. That's a hour drive each day and then one or two trips during the weekends.


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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #450297
August 17, 2016 08:43 pm UTC
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Hmm, is there a Waze app for Windows? I could load it up on my tablet, which is powered by the car and I'll have it tethered to my phone.


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2018 - 10.58 - 136mph
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #450302
August 18, 2016 01:40 am UTC
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Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Charles Lavoie] #450303
August 18, 2016 02:47 am UTC
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Originally Posted by Charles Lavoie
I am a Royalty Wazer now smile Ranking 14,756! (76,447 points)


This made me look at mine. 64,289 on my personal phone and 153,097 on my work phone. I rack up a lot of esso points also.


95GSX:6 Bolt-E316G/Mani-LinkV3 w/SD-680's-FMIC-Aeromotive FPR-255HP-MBC-Fidanza FW-ACT 2100
Re: E-Test from hell [Re: Salomon Ponte] #450315
August 18, 2016 06:50 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by Salomon Ponte
All the highways here in Michigan are 70mph i.e. 112kph, but you can always get away with at least 80 (128 kph) and most of the time 85-90mph (136-144kph) without worry.

To be fair, on the 400 series of highways it's almost always fine to do 125 without worry of being pulled over. 130 they don't often bug you either if the road conditions allow it.

I've driven some of the 80mph highways out in the AZ/CA area of the states and it's pretty nice doing 90-95mph without worrying about getting pulled over.


I hear ya man. I never did anything under 80mph driving out in the prairies (Alberta to Manitoba). The best I did was Medicine Hat to Moose Jaw in 2:45. The same goes for the whole trip back to Ontario through the states, 80mph was not only a minimum speed (towing with the taller 5th gear doesn't do much for keeping oil pressure up...) but it seemed to be the social norm.
The bottom line is, flow of traffic is your best bet, unless they're being a total ass about it.

I'll never forget a speeding ticket I got going through MT. Was doing 95 in a 70, and thought we were going to get wrecked my the officer when we saw the lights on. Ticket was $20 paid on the spot, or come back to MT and fight it. lol. Kept the ticket.

In a perfect world, I think a posted limit of 120 is acceptable on 400 series highways outside of major city centers. 100 through the GTA, because lets call a spade a spade here... not many people can do that speed acceptably. That could cause some kind of traffic issues with the increased volume and reduced speed, but meh.. we're just talking here.

As for waze, if you aren't using it, you should be. Google gets it's accident information from waze users. The app is incredible in terms of displaying current conditions.
I wish the navigation was a little more user friendly, in terms of selecting a certain location on a map vs from a list.
Either way, Royalty Wazer here; Rank 7000, 116,164pts wink

Last edited by Johnny Larmond; August 18, 2016 06:59 pm UTC.

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