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Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #408850
July 24, 2013 05:07 pm UTC
July 24, 2013 05:07 pm UTC
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Mike Kuttschrutter Offline OP
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Update time!

I have the car running on an EVO8 Ecu with Speed Density. Without much issues.
Only 2 issues I have right now:
-No idle controller makes idle, startup, and pushing in the clutch while driving from a high rpm challennging...
-I am simulating the narrowband currently so on a hot start while the wideband is doing its startup, i need to keep my foot on the gas... I will see if my tuner can fix that for me.

I got a pretty VC done by brightside to help with the CC pressure:)

[Linked Image]

My intake and underhood temps were rediclious... so some turbo blankets were put on.
[Linked Image]

I took the car to the track for a baseline. Fun being escorted by Bikes laugh
[Linked Image]

I managed a 13.1 at around 17-18psi. I am having a hell of a time shifting, I am sure I could have touched a 12 as it sat with proper shifting.
I am going to tear apart the clutch hydraulics to see if there are leaks or stuck air and redo the clutch adjustment.

And chilling with another compound turbo dsm after the track
[Linked Image]

I am also told that my large turbo is restricting my exhaust flow for this setup. And may be contributing to my high intake and underhood temps.
So I bought an hx-35 with a 12cm2 turbine housing, stepping up from the 9cm2 on there currently.

[Linked Image]

Car is under construction getting that bigger turbo on, waiting on parts.
Meth is working and my tuner wants to start raising the boost. Once it is setup to tell the ECU.
He was talking about map switching and an electric BCS so he could kill the boost and map switch if the meth is not being fired. (pretty cool)
But that is also a work in progress...


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Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #411874
August 27, 2013 05:16 pm UTC
August 27, 2013 05:16 pm UTC
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Thought I would share my new wheel setup.
Figured I would pull the trigger before going to the Shootout. Always good piece of mind doing a big trip on brand new tires.

17x9 inch 30+ offset
245/45/R17
No spacers laugh
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


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Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #411875
August 27, 2013 05:17 pm UTC
August 27, 2013 05:17 pm UTC
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Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence Offline
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Got a picture from the front mike?


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Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #411876
August 27, 2013 05:22 pm UTC
August 27, 2013 05:22 pm UTC
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Humm just checked my phone and I don't...
They stick out past the fenders slightly though.


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Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #411879
August 27, 2013 05:37 pm UTC
August 27, 2013 05:37 pm UTC
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Bryan Lawrence Offline
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Ok, just curious.

I think my next tires will be 235 45 18, how do you find the sit on the rim, do they poke out a lot?


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Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Bryan Lawrence] #412050
August 28, 2013 06:54 pm UTC
August 28, 2013 06:54 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by Bryan Lawrence
I think my next tires will be 235 45 18, how do you find the sit on the rim, do they poke out a lot?


A +30mm I find this the most you can get away with a 17x9 or 8.5" wide rim, and if they do poke nothing a little camber won't fix. wink
And if your planing on running a 18x9 or 18x8 a 235/45 will stretch a bit.

Hope that helped a little.



Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #412051
August 28, 2013 07:00 pm UTC
August 28, 2013 07:00 pm UTC
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Bryan Lawrence Offline
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that helps.

I have 18x9 and my 225s stretch a little some I was hoping to get something that didn't


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Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #412060
August 28, 2013 07:57 pm UTC
August 28, 2013 07:57 pm UTC
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I have maybe 5-6mm of clearance on the inside to the coilover springs, and about the same in the rear before it touches the lower arm.

255/45/17 would have been ideal without any stretch.
I can notice it a little bit on mine, with the 245's but they are a more common tire, incase I get a flat, and I need something in a hurry. And I think I am maxed out for clearance anyways.

225-235's on a 9inch i think is getting into VW territory.


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Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #412063
August 28, 2013 08:11 pm UTC
August 28, 2013 08:11 pm UTC
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Bryan Lawrence Offline
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Yeah I think anything lower than what I have now would definitely be there, I find this is ok.


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Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421652
February 02, 2014 01:27 am UTC
February 02, 2014 01:27 am UTC
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Mike Kuttschrutter Offline OP
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Been a little while. Here is a little update for those with the winter blues..

My trans was super notchy at the end of last season, was really hurting my times. So I decided to start looking for something.

I found an evo 1 trans that seemed to have been ran with the wrong drive. The Centre diff was binding when I took it apart. I got it for a good deal so I am happy that I have the gear sets to work with.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


So I was on the hunt for a new centre diff.
I found a steal of a deal and this ended up in my hands the other day.
[Linked Image]

One question I have for the tranny guys. Can I use a 1990's pinion gear and stubby gear. To convert to the usdm final drive? Or do I need to stick to the 91+??


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Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421657
February 02, 2014 03:36 am UTC
February 02, 2014 03:36 am UTC
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You should be able to swap in your 90 gear set. I swapped A 95 gear set into my jdm tranny.


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Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Jay Stacey] #421658
February 02, 2014 03:38 am UTC
February 02, 2014 03:38 am UTC
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Any more of those quaifs? lol...


11.45@125,
stock bottom end 6bolt 2g head.
272 hks cams.
Holset hx35
Backyard biult!!
Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421659
February 02, 2014 03:51 am UTC
February 02, 2014 03:51 am UTC
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Nice quaiffe, are you concerned at all about the failures people have with them?



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Amateurs built the Ark,
Professionals built the Titanic.
Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421660
February 02, 2014 04:05 am UTC
February 02, 2014 04:05 am UTC
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I am super concerned about all these failure stories. But in the searching I did... i didn't find many pictures... and some argue it was actually the 3rd gears breaking and taking it out.
I will see for myself if the stories are true I guess.


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Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421673
February 03, 2014 12:52 am UTC
February 03, 2014 12:52 am UTC
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Strokers can be hard on these trans; ask Paul Sitarski what bountiful torque has done to his frown


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Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421675
February 03, 2014 01:27 am UTC
February 03, 2014 01:27 am UTC
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Will you be going onto the road course with this car? A 4 spider is stronger than a quaife. I want a quaife centre also. I'm thinking of buying on and getting it shotpeened and cryogenically treated to fight against the fracturing.



Never fear a challenge,
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Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Degli Angeli] #421679
February 03, 2014 02:24 am UTC
February 03, 2014 02:24 am UTC
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Originally Posted by Wade Harrison 2
Strokers can be hard on these trans; ask Paul Sitarski what bountiful torque has done to his frown

Ya i am worried about the 2.4's low end torque coupled with the compound turbos...
My tuner was saying he was having to edit cells he has never touched before that my car was hitting.

Originally Posted by Mike Degli Angeli
Will you be going onto the road course with this car? A 4 spider is stronger than a quaife. I want a quaife centre also. I'm thinking of buying on and getting it shotpeened and cryogenically treated to fight against the fracturing.

I hope to do road course with the car. I want it mostly for cruising around, and being able to jump onto a road course or drag strip with little to no changes..

I was actually thinking of getting the unit shot peened and cryo'd. But worried it will void the warranty if it has any. I will have to look into it and see who does that around here..


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Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421680
February 03, 2014 02:37 am UTC
February 03, 2014 02:37 am UTC
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Unless you are registered to the serial number on the quaife you have no warranty. I did my research on this late last year.



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Professionals built the Titanic.
Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421698
February 03, 2014 09:56 pm UTC
February 03, 2014 09:56 pm UTC
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The Evo1 gearset uses the 1990 Intermediate gearshaft. The last thing I would want you to do is drop a 1991+ style Quaife onto a 1990 Style intermediate, and destroy both the center and intermediate. Is the Quaife you got there a 1990 style?


1G DSM: 1000+ AWHP, 9.2@162.83 MPH
Evo X: 746 AWHP, XR9569S pump gas
www.dynotuneracing.com



Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Reza Mirza] #421703
February 03, 2014 11:21 pm UTC
February 03, 2014 11:21 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by Reza Mirza
The Evo1 gearset uses the 1990 Intermediate gearshaft. The last thing I would want you to do is drop a 1991+ style Quaife onto a 1990 Style intermediate, and destroy both the center and intermediate. Is the Quaife you got there a 1990 style?


Can't that easily be checked because the gears won't mesh?

Plus I don't believe they made a quaife for 90 gear sets



Never fear a challenge,
Amateurs built the Ark,
Professionals built the Titanic.
Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421704
February 03, 2014 11:37 pm UTC
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For a trained hand like mines, I would be able to tell that they don't mesh smoothly. I can almost tell from the pics that the pitch on the Quaife is 91+. They will mesh however and you will be able to bolt it all up in the trans, but it won't spin smoothly. Once bolted all together, spin the trans over with some good force and you will crack all the teeth on the center and intermediate shaft.


1G DSM: 1000+ AWHP, 9.2@162.83 MPH
Evo X: 746 AWHP, XR9569S pump gas
www.dynotuneracing.com



Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421705
February 03, 2014 11:43 pm UTC
February 03, 2014 11:43 pm UTC
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Oh sh!t. In all my reading, I never came across that. Odd that they use a 90's part in a 93/4 car. I snapped a pic. Not sure what I got anymore frown

Quaife, then what came in the transmission, and a 90's unit on the far end.

[Linked Image]


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Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421707
February 03, 2014 11:58 pm UTC
February 03, 2014 11:58 pm UTC
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Mike, it's a mixed year and it's quite possible you have an evo1 with 91+ intermediate shaft. If the center diff in the middle in the above pic is the one that came out of the evo1 trans then it looks like 91+ as I can see a notch in the teeth. Take a closer pic of the center diff and intermediate shaft out of the evo1 trans and I can confirm.

FWIW I have an evo1 gearset sitting in my garage right now and it is all 90 style.

Also, you got steel forks there in the evo1 trans which you would want to use, and in case you did not know it also has the tall 5th gear, same ratio as the evo3 5th.


1G DSM: 1000+ AWHP, 9.2@162.83 MPH
Evo X: 746 AWHP, XR9569S pump gas
www.dynotuneracing.com



Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421709
February 04, 2014 12:09 am UTC
February 04, 2014 12:09 am UTC
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ok thanks I'll grab more pics.
I do notice on the 90's centre, the tops of the teeth are almost squared off on the top where the quaife and the evo unit have more of a point.

If i do recall, I did read about being a split in the evo1's. One had double syncro second? and the other did not... correct me if I am wrong.

I threw a magnet to the forks and they are steel.
And the longer 5th is the reason I picked this trans up smile everything else is just bonus.




Last edited by Mike Kuttschrutter; February 04, 2014 12:11 am UTC.

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Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421710
February 04, 2014 12:16 am UTC
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[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


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Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421712
February 04, 2014 12:23 am UTC
February 04, 2014 12:23 am UTC
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Yup it is 91+ so your good. Looks like a good gear set. You should be able to drop any gear and ratio from any year trans e.g. double syncro evo 3 gears or single sincro USDM ratios (except 1990) right onto those shafts smile

If you look at your 1990 center diff you will notice the pitch much thicker.



1G DSM: 1000+ AWHP, 9.2@162.83 MPH
Evo X: 746 AWHP, XR9569S pump gas
www.dynotuneracing.com



Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421713
February 04, 2014 12:31 am UTC
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Thanks a bunch for confirming..... and giving me a 20 minute heart attack.


Another quick question Reza,
When changing the final drive, switching out the pinion gear and the stubby gear on the output shaft to the USDM one. Can I use one from a 1990? (I already have one torn apart)
Or does it need to be a 91+?


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Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421714
February 04, 2014 12:32 am UTC
February 04, 2014 12:32 am UTC
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Reza Mirza Offline
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You also got the heavy duty rails in there, another bonus wink Those rails and forks should last the life of your car.

I run the same forks and rails in my trans with an evo3 gearset and a Cusco 4 spider center diff. Just be careful with the evo1 1st gear as it is 16% taller and physically weaker if you plan on throwing a lot of power at it.


1G DSM: 1000+ AWHP, 9.2@162.83 MPH
Evo X: 746 AWHP, XR9569S pump gas
www.dynotuneracing.com



Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421715
February 04, 2014 12:34 am UTC
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Yes you can run the 1990 ring and pinion with no problem. 58 tooth on the ring and 15 teeth on the pinion make it the correct final drive.

Don't swap ring and pinions around though, i.e. try to keep the matching ring to the same pinion that it has been used on.


1G DSM: 1000+ AWHP, 9.2@162.83 MPH
Evo X: 746 AWHP, XR9569S pump gas
www.dynotuneracing.com



Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421717
February 04, 2014 12:57 am UTC
February 04, 2014 12:57 am UTC
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Awesome, I didn't know about the HD rails or the longer first. I will try to be gentle.


Great, I didnt feel like tearing down another trans to get the ring and pinion out..

Thanks again.


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Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421749
February 04, 2014 04:26 pm UTC
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Reza Mirza Offline
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Off the top of my head the 2nd gear is like 0.5% taller and double syncro. 3rd and 4th gear are the same close ratio as the evoIII 3rd and 4th gear, except that the evo1 gears are only single syncro.

If you plan on using that gearset, it would be nice to freshen it up and toss in new syncros on all the gears. Syncros are fairly cheap. I owe you a favor so if you decide to do this, bring me both shafts and some new syncros and I can install them for you in less than an hour.


1G DSM: 1000+ AWHP, 9.2@162.83 MPH
Evo X: 746 AWHP, XR9569S pump gas
www.dynotuneracing.com



Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421752
February 04, 2014 06:08 pm UTC
February 04, 2014 06:08 pm UTC
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Wouldn't you want to put a DSM 2nd gear on it so that it becomes a close ratio gear box?

I also like the idea of running a EVO final drive for acceleration. Especially if you plan to rev higher to hold a gear longer on the track. Hard part would be finding an EVO rear ring and pinion.



Never fear a challenge,
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Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Degli Angeli] #421758
February 04, 2014 07:51 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by Mike Degli Angeli
Wouldn't you want to put a DSM 2nd gear on it so that it becomes a close ratio gear box?

I also like the idea of running a EVO final drive for acceleration. Especially if you plan to rev higher to hold a gear longer on the track. Hard part would be finding an EVO rear ring and pinion.


You can't match a DSM 2nd gear to an Evo1 input shaft. If you want to do this you will lose the evo1 1st gear as well. The evo1 1st and 2nd gear match the evo1 input shaft. Since the evo1 2nd gear is 0.5% taller, you won't even notice the difference between this and a DSM 2nd gear.

If the car was an evo it would make sense to change the final drive, but since we have the leisure of changing the gear ratios without changing the final drive, it's pointless. Both the evo3 3rd and 4th gear and USDM spec 3rd and 4th gear drop right into the trans to match the 91+ center diff without making any other changes.


1G DSM: 1000+ AWHP, 9.2@162.83 MPH
Evo X: 746 AWHP, XR9569S pump gas
www.dynotuneracing.com



Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421760
February 04, 2014 08:44 pm UTC
February 04, 2014 08:44 pm UTC
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Why would it be pointless? The final drive on an evo is shorter? It would give better acceleration. Its why they put such an overdrive on 5th?

I'm at work or else I would take the time to do the math!

Last edited by Mike Degli Angeli; February 04, 2014 08:45 pm UTC.


Never fear a challenge,
Amateurs built the Ark,
Professionals built the Titanic.
Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421762
February 04, 2014 09:11 pm UTC
February 04, 2014 09:11 pm UTC
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398
Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza Offline
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Mike,
If you want to do it across the board, then sure go through the trouble. With DSM's we can change a single gear ratio instead of the whole final drive in order to achieve what your trying to think about.

Have you even driven a DSM with an evo 3 gearset, and you want to go shorter??? Oh yes right, I forgot you haven't driven a DSM in what, over 10 years!

No wonder your thinking about going shorter than an evo3 gearset. I'm at work too, but I figured this out and already did the math a long long time ago wink

DSM transmission crap is worthless and obsolete inventory now. Your trying to think something that Shep, TRE, or Jacks would have offered a decade ago, if we did not have such things as evo3 gearsets, and 91+ intermediate shafts which make it easier to change a single gear ratio instead of the complete final drive.

With my Evo X, there is no option to change a single gear ratio, so If I wanted taller or shorter gears, then yes I could easily swap the complete final drive. Although you can, you do not need to do this with a DSM trans.


1G DSM: 1000+ AWHP, 9.2@162.83 MPH
Evo X: 746 AWHP, XR9569S pump gas
www.dynotuneracing.com



Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421764
February 04, 2014 09:20 pm UTC
February 04, 2014 09:20 pm UTC
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Mike Degli Angeli Offline
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I'm talking EVOIII gearset with EVOIII final drive in the front and rear with a 97-99 transfer case. Just like an EVO would.

That would make the shortest gearing possible for acceleration.



Never fear a challenge,
Amateurs built the Ark,
Professionals built the Titanic.
Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421765
February 04, 2014 09:20 pm UTC
February 04, 2014 09:20 pm UTC
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398
Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza Offline
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BTW if final drives is what your after, I have evo1 and evo3 at home wink Your more than welcome to come take them and do whatever you like with them smile


1G DSM: 1000+ AWHP, 9.2@162.83 MPH
Evo X: 746 AWHP, XR9569S pump gas
www.dynotuneracing.com



Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Degli Angeli] #421766
February 04, 2014 09:27 pm UTC
February 04, 2014 09:27 pm UTC
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398
Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza Offline
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Ok you really haven't driven a DSM for a long time. Guys go taller than the USDM 1st gear by going to evo3, and here you are wanting to go shorter.

Bring your tranny by, I'll drop in a 64 tooth evo3 final drive for you, then I'll use your DSM 1st gear, change your rear diff to an evo ring and pinion, and I'll guarantee you'll have a pretty retarded ratio trans for your DSM rotflmao

Your wanting to go shorter ratio whereas guys complain that the regular DSM 1st and 2nd gear already go by too quick.

I could just picture your DSM pulling through an intersection and your already in 4th gear tongue
Sounds like a truck to me!


1G DSM: 1000+ AWHP, 9.2@162.83 MPH
Evo X: 746 AWHP, XR9569S pump gas
www.dynotuneracing.com



Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421767
February 04, 2014 09:42 pm UTC
February 04, 2014 09:42 pm UTC
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Mike Degli Angeli Offline
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I'll take the final drive. Don't need yours now Mike! Hard part is finding the rear ring and pinion to make it work.

It would be the same as driving an EVOIII. Don't think mitsubishi would put "retarded" ratios in there EVO. IT was meant for rally acceleration. I've driven one of those a couple times. It wouldn't be ridiculous at all. Just need to rev higher to hold the gear.

Guys complaining are drag guys that don't want to shift into 5th at the quarter mile. At a track like cayuga road course, shorter gearing would be desired.

A close ratio transmission in a DSM (correct me if i'm wrong)

EVOIII 1st gear
DSM 2nd gear
EVOIII 3rd gear
EVOIII 4th gear
DSM 5th (but put whatever you want as its not used for racing)

That would make 1-4th double synchro.



Never fear a challenge,
Amateurs built the Ark,
Professionals built the Titanic.
Re: Cleanawd project [Re: Mike Kuttschrutter] #421768
February 04, 2014 09:48 pm UTC
February 04, 2014 09:48 pm UTC
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,241
Stratford/London
Mike Kuttschrutter Offline OP
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First gear is pretty pointless in my car there is not enough load to create uber amounts of boost.
But I guess I shift around 7, and dont revv it out like some guys.

Maybe that ratio would be good fora hill climb car!?


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