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Need honest machine shop in GTA #344781
January 10, 2011 07:36 pm UTC
January 10, 2011 07:36 pm UTC
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Ontrario, Canada
Tim Sedore Offline OP
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Hey Guys, i have a 99 eclipse gst motor that i need built. It is currently out of the car and i should have all the parts. I just need someone to machine it and put it together.

I have the following:
Eagle steel crankshaft
Eagle forged connecting rods H beam
Wieseco 8:3:1 85.5mm (20 thou overbore) forged pitons
Wieseco Rings
Ferrea Titanium Valves 6000 series
HKS Titanium springs
Viton valve stem seals
Ferrera Valve locks
AEM true time cam gears
OBX underdrive pully, All other pullys lightweight also
Cometic multi layer performance head gasket
ARP studs

Can anyone recomend a decent shop that wont ask for my first born?

I live in Oakville but I am willing to go anywhere in the GTA within reason.

Thank you my fellow DSM'ers smile


99 Eclipse GST RIP
08 Evolution GSR 440HP/410TQ
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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Tim Sedore] #344783
January 10, 2011 08:20 pm UTC
January 10, 2011 08:20 pm UTC
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Etobicoke
Deep Mann Offline
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http://www.bercoautomotive.com/

These guys are good and have been around for years. They have a huge machine shop and I know a lot of guys who had work done from there including myself.

Edit: on the bottom left corner you can take a tour of the shop and go through the pictures you get a idea of the shop.

Last edited by Deep Mann; January 10, 2011 08:22 pm UTC.

1998 Tsi Awd 10.6@134

Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Deep Mann] #344785
January 10, 2011 08:49 pm UTC
January 10, 2011 08:49 pm UTC
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Ontrario, Canada
Tim Sedore Offline OP
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Thanks Deep.


99 Eclipse GST RIP
08 Evolution GSR 440HP/410TQ
11.96 @ 116 MPH(more to come)
Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Tim Sedore] #344794
January 11, 2011 12:09 am UTC
January 11, 2011 12:09 am UTC
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canada toronto ontario
ruben silva Offline
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Gord busch is good he machined my 6 bolt and did an amazing job at it.


97 Eclipse Gst Sold!!
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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: ruben silva] #344807
January 11, 2011 03:44 pm UTC
January 11, 2011 03:44 pm UTC
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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: ruben silva] #344811
January 11, 2011 04:19 pm UTC
January 11, 2011 04:19 pm UTC
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Newmarket, Ontario
Daren Peacock Offline
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Actually I'll add to this thread as well. I'm also looking at getting my 7 bolt done as well. Does anyone have experience with shops that have done 7 bolts before? (split thrust). One of the shops I'll be looking at is Rainbow Engines in Markham, I know they've done alot of 6 bolts just wasn't sure about 7's.

I'd like my squirters welded up when I do my build. Also want ARP main studs so need an align hone. Not sure what all machining is required but I'd want all the typical stuff, balanced rotating assembly, etc. Also thinking about O-ringing the block.

Tim, looks like a good build but I probably wouldn't run the OBX underdrive pullies. I'd recommend a good engine dampner like Fluidampr.


98 Eclipse GSX DSM82HTA
Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Daren Peacock] #344817
January 11, 2011 06:36 pm UTC
January 11, 2011 06:36 pm UTC
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Woodbridge, Ontario, Canada
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Michael Zeppieri Offline
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There are a few guys on here that continue to run a 7 bolt without issues, but if you're looking for a build up, why not start with a 6 bolt platform? The purpose of going with a built motor is for reliability and longevity. Why not take out one of the concerns (or lessen the concern) from the equation? The last thing you want to do is sink thousands into a block that MIGHT head down the same path as so many before it. Your choice though.

A poorly built 6-bolt (or even poorly tuned) can sh!t the bed just like any other motor, so I'm not saying that it's the be-all, end-all.


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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Michael Zeppieri] #344819
January 11, 2011 07:04 pm UTC
January 11, 2011 07:04 pm UTC
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Newmarket, Ontario
Daren Peacock Offline
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I thought about going 6 bolt but think I've switched back to sticking with 7 for a couple reasons. First because I'm anal & I don't want to run some guys junky 6 bolt parts on my car, so that means buying new or sourcing like new & probably still have them refinished. That, with additional 6 bolt specific parts will easily run me another $1500+ ontop of the build. 2nd, my motor should be the split thrust design. Most people I talk to say they worry more about the builder then 6 vs 7 bolt. Then if its the split thrust, worry even less. Aren't all/most strokers a 7 bolt, do they have all kinds of issues? What about Evo motors, their a 7 bolt, do you see their builds walking all the time?

Another big issue seems to be clutch itself, I won't be running a 2600+ PP, it'll be a 2200-2300lb.


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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Daren Peacock] #344823
January 11, 2011 08:50 pm UTC
January 11, 2011 08:50 pm UTC
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Ontrario, Canada
Tim Sedore Offline OP
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Hey Thanks to everyone. I called Gord busch and he seems like a real honest guy. He said if i bring it in he will tell me how much upfront and stick to it. The place my motors at right now has had it for 3 months and are running up the bill. He said that my crank needed to be machined so i told him i would not pay more than $200. He said it will cost $270 so i said go ahead. After fixing it he is now saying he wants $350 for the crank. It is an Eagle forged crank but $%ck that. We agreed on $270 so that is my queue to get my motor out of there. He wanted $2500 for the build with me supplying the parts.

Lesson leared. Get that mofo in writting!

Thanks again Ruben. I will post pics when i am done smile IF it ever gets finished


99 Eclipse GST RIP
08 Evolution GSR 440HP/410TQ
11.96 @ 116 MPH(more to come)
Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Tim Sedore] #344824
January 11, 2011 09:02 pm UTC
January 11, 2011 09:02 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by Tim Sedore
He wanted $2500 for the build with me supplying the parts.


$2500 & your supplying the parts? crazy Right now I hear DSMer's everywhere having heart attacks rotate


98 Eclipse GSX DSM82HTA
Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Tim Sedore] #344825
January 11, 2011 09:03 pm UTC
January 11, 2011 09:03 pm UTC
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Ontrario, Canada
Tim Sedore Offline OP
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I thought about 6 bolt as well but then i would need to swap tranny etc. My 7 bolt tranny is brand new. I just bought it in 08 before i decided to build up the motor. That would be $3500 out the window frown I dont think i can sell it for more than $500. Also i thought the later 7 bolts with split bearings were less prone to crankwalk?

The 1999 7 bolt has a 4 piece Thrust bearing assembly that allows the thrust bearing to float and self align with the crankshaft. This type of bearing was carried over to the EVO IV and newer 4g63-t and 4g64 engines.



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08 Evolution GSR 440HP/410TQ
11.96 @ 116 MPH(more to come)
Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Daren Peacock] #344827
January 11, 2011 09:25 pm UTC
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i think my bill for him was about 3 gran with out parts but was worth every penny.


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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Tim Sedore] #344828
January 11, 2011 09:28 pm UTC
January 11, 2011 09:28 pm UTC
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You can still run your 7 bolt tranny with a 6 bolt bottom, just need to swap flywheels. If I built a 6 bottom, wasn't planning on ditching my TRE tranny & would keep the 7 bolt head/evoIII intake mani.

Yes, the revised split thrust was Mitsu's design to prevent CW. Don't think it completely eliminates it but it does seem to help vs previous gen 7 bolts. Again, alot has to do with the builder. If I go 7, I also plan on having the oil squirters welded shut. You don't need them with aftermarket pistons & that can help eliminate a possible cause of CW. Apparently they can fail in the open position (if you've seen a pic their much smaller then 6 bolt squirters), which causes them to continue to squirt when they aren't supposed to, like at low rpms, such as idle. This can take the oil supply away from the crank mains. So from what I've heard its a good idea to eliminate them.


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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: ruben silva] #344829
January 11, 2011 09:31 pm UTC
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Last edited by ruben silva; January 11, 2011 09:32 pm UTC.

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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: ruben silva] #344865
January 12, 2011 02:37 pm UTC
January 12, 2011 02:37 pm UTC
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Daren, give me a call on welding the oil squiters up. i have a really good contact. Same guy Mark used for his turbo. quality work and knows what his doing.

The guy at Rainbow is really nice and is willing to work with me on my motor build so that is exactly what i want. Which includes working with my powder coated block:)

His also willing to show me all the values for clearances to ensure that its built to my specs. I'm anal in detials just like Daren and just don't drop my parts off and tell the guy i want a "race" motor built.




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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: ruben silva] #344867
January 12, 2011 02:46 pm UTC
January 12, 2011 02:46 pm UTC
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Ontrario, Canada
Tim Sedore Offline OP
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Wow great job. I am going to take my motor to him for sure.
Ok i got the breakdown of what they are wanting to charging me.

Disassemble engine and inspect 75
Disassemble second engine 100
Select parts for reuse and degrease 175
Repair on crankshaft 310
Balance assembly 175
Bore and hone cylinders 300
Machine Deck of block 100
Check main and rod clearance 100
Modify block to eliminate balance shafts 75
Resize pin holes for correct pin to piston clearance 75
Cut ring end gaps 50
Disassemble head and clean/check valves 400
Assemble complete engine 600

Parts:
Main bearings 40
Rod bearings 30
T/washers 12
Rings 78
New belt 26

For a grand total of $2721

I think i will be taking my business elsewhere smile

Also the crank he charged me $310 for looks like crap! Looks beat up to me.

Hopefully Gord can srt this out


99 Eclipse GST RIP
08 Evolution GSR 440HP/410TQ
11.96 @ 116 MPH(more to come)
Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Tim Sedore] #344868
January 12, 2011 02:59 pm UTC
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Tim Sedore Offline OP
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I just got off the phone with Gord and read through all the items and he said that it SHOULD cost me about $1000-1200. Of course it is hard to say for sure without seeing it but its still a far cry from 2700!


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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Tim Sedore] #344870
January 12, 2011 03:32 pm UTC
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Its interesting seeing what other people charge for engine builds and machine work smile Some machine shops are RIP offs.

I've been using the same guy in Markham for many years now, and never once had a problem with any builds, stock or built. Its nice seeing a lot of DSMers going to Rainbow now over the last few years after seeing my success with them smile . Actually my success comes from my tuning skills, not the machine shop. In fact rebuilding a 4g63 motor should be like riding a bicycle for any reputable engine shop. Easy engine to work with.

Machine work and engine building is not rocket science. I give my specs to Paul @ Rainbow, my engines come out perfect, I don't need to triple check everything, break em in and bang off 10's all day. A proper machine shop that builds engines all day long should have reasonable prices. I would never pay $400 for a complete head rebuild smile

Some people have just never had an engine built before, and get too complicated about it. Preparation before starting the motor and during assembly is KEY too.


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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Reza Mirza] #344871
January 12, 2011 03:56 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by Reza Mirza
Its interesting seeing what other people charge for engine builds and machine work smile Some machine shops are RIP offs.

I've been using the same guy in Markham for many years now, and never once had a problem with any builds, stock or built. Its nice seeing a lot of DSMers going to Rainbow now over the last few years after seeing my success with them smile . Actually my success comes from my tuning skills, not the machine shop. In fact rebuilding a 4g63 motor should be like riding a bicycle for any reputable engine shop. Easy engine to work with.

Machine work and engine building is not rocket science. I give my specs to Paul @ Rainbow, my engines come out perfect, I don't need to triple check everything, break em in and bang off 10's all day. A proper machine shop that builds engines all day long should have reasonable prices. I would never pay $400 for a complete head rebuild smile

Some people have just never had an engine built before, and get too complicated about it. Preparation before starting the motor and during assembly is KEY too.


What that guy said! I too have been using the same machinist, excellent work, will never go to another!


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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: KEVIN KIRELUK] #344886
January 12, 2011 08:28 pm UTC
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Tim Sedore Offline OP
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how can i ensure that i get the right parts back? Is there anything on an eagle crank to identify it from oem?


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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Tim Sedore] #344972
January 14, 2011 07:31 pm UTC
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Better question, is there a reason why you are running an Eagle crank?


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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Ryan Laliberte] #344975
January 14, 2011 07:48 pm UTC
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I believe the Eagle parts will have the bird on them. You could scribe some identification of your own as well.

Now I guess that doesn't help you much if the shop does the full assembly. If you don't want to trust them you will just have to go and watch them assemble it! tongue


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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Rob Strelecki] #345090
January 17, 2011 05:10 pm UTC
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Tim Sedore Offline OP
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Hey Guys, thanks for all the help. I got everything back ok and I am taking it all to Gord Bush Performance. HOpefully i can get a much better quote. I would never deal with those guys again. It was originally at Mississauga Engines.


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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Tim Sedore] #345103
January 18, 2011 01:00 am UTC
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I know that I'm late into your post but Gord Bush is probably 1 of the 10 best machine shop in Canada.

Lot of reputable race team uses his services.

Keep us up to date.

Ghislain


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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Ghislain Goudreau] #345122
January 18, 2011 03:22 am UTC
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Glad i could help im completely happy with his work and will deff go back if i ever decide to build another motor.


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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: ruben silva] #345340
January 23, 2011 07:50 pm UTC
January 23, 2011 07:50 pm UTC
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toronto
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People from the other side of the planet bring their engines to Gord Bush.

No1 in my books. He built my 3SGTE motor and was very paitent with me while I got replacement parts when he found out some of my parts were missing and some no good

Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: steve huey] #345433
January 25, 2011 04:08 pm UTC
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Tim Sedore Offline OP
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Got my quote from Gord. $1400 parts included. Thumbs up!! Great guy, really honest and straight up.


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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Tim Sedore] #345438
January 25, 2011 04:46 pm UTC
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Sounds a lot better than $2500. and you supply parts smile


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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Ziggy Dietrich] #345710
January 31, 2011 06:05 pm UTC
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Tim Sedore Offline OP
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Yeah guys, what size injectors would you recommend with this build? I am running it with a t3/t4 turbo.


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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Tim Sedore] #345712
January 31, 2011 06:38 pm UTC
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^^^
The turbo doesn't matter so much as: How much horsepower do you want to make and how are you going to control the injectors?

Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Rob Strelecki] #345756
February 01, 2011 02:54 pm UTC
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Tim Sedore Offline OP
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I am aiming for about 400 whp. For now i have a greedy e-manage which i know i whould probably upgrade. I also have a B.E.G.I. Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator which have not yet decided if i am going to use. It is supposed to raise the fuel levels under higher boost. I will probably still need a manual fuel regulator.


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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Tim Sedore] #345766
February 01, 2011 05:47 pm UTC
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The stock fuel pressure regulator is rising rate, 1:1 ratio. When you upgrade it you just need to stay with 1:1. The key is that it is large enough, then it doesn't mess with your tuning by being inconsistent.

I think the e-Manage is a piggy-back controller (used in conjunction with the stock ECU)? Normally with piggy-backs you are limited to around 650cc injectors. "Pulling out" a lot of fuel to compensate for large injectors makes tuning diffuclt.
However, e-Manage might get around that by talking directly to the ignition and/or injectors.

For 400 WHP you might be looking at 1000cc injectors.

So if e-Manage can't handle that size, you'll need to switch to ECMLink or a full standalone.

Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Rob Strelecki] #345780
February 01, 2011 09:09 pm UTC
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Hey Tim,

If you need another option there's Howie at R&B automotive on wyecroft, he's built talon's before and his prices are pretty fair, give him a call


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Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Chris Browning] #345783
February 01, 2011 11:26 pm UTC
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IF you have an EPROM ECU, a custom chip and a used AFC is a cheap way to do it...


Now, I'll have all kinds of time to talk about DSMs, because I won't be busy fixing mine!
Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Steve Kinnaird] #345784
February 01, 2011 11:29 pm UTC
February 01, 2011 11:29 pm UTC
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Rob Strelecki Offline

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Oh yeah I should have mentioned the chip option shuffle
Especially since it's what I use!

Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Tim Sedore] #345785
February 01, 2011 11:43 pm UTC
February 01, 2011 11:43 pm UTC
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Trenton, On, Canada.
Ghislain Goudreau Offline
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Originally Posted by Tim Sedore
I also have a B.E.G.I. Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator which have not yet decided if i am going to use. It is supposed to raise the fuel levels under higher boost. I will probably still need a manual fuel regulator.


Back up the Truck; Do you know for sure what "rate" your BEGI Gizmo in raising fuel pressure??? Like Rob said it should raise the Fuel Pressure 1 psi per psi of Boost. Some Yo-Hip b.s. "Fuel Pressure Regulator will raise it as much as 11:1. Some are also comnonly known as FMU or secondary Fuel Pressure Regulator. That crap is old school and was never proven to work well with modern ECUs.

E-Manage should be a decent platform to Tune with but might limit you to a certain size Injectors.

All in all; making power out of a 4G63 is very well documented and we tend to use certain "wayz" as they yeild decent, consistent results.

Sell you E-Manage and that "unknown" FPR, use the money for a Peckerhead Chip, a SAFC or DSMLink.

Hope this helps.

Ghislain


Rouge!!!
Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Ghislain Goudreau] #346104
February 07, 2011 09:45 pm UTC
February 07, 2011 09:45 pm UTC
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Posts: 1,410
Ontrario, Canada
Tim Sedore Offline OP
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shoot, i had a safc and sold it to get the e-manage. I thought emanage was better as safc only does fuel, it will not do timing. From what i understand the biggest difference here is that the e-manage lets you modify ignition timing completely independent of your fuel map


99 Eclipse GST RIP
08 Evolution GSR 440HP/410TQ
11.96 @ 116 MPH(more to come)
Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Tim Sedore] #346106
February 07, 2011 09:52 pm UTC
February 07, 2011 09:52 pm UTC
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Rob Strelecki Offline

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Tim, if e-manage gives you timing control then it should happen to correct the big injector problem I mentioned above. Pulling out a lot of fuel on a piggy-back can land you in a far too aggressive timing cell. But, it sounds like you can compensate for that (or like I mentioned, perhaps e-manage talks directly to the injectors too and then it's a moot point).

Why not see where the e-manage can take you first?

Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Rob Strelecki] #351152
April 21, 2011 02:55 pm UTC
April 21, 2011 02:55 pm UTC
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Ontrario, Canada
Tim Sedore Offline OP
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UPdate:

I got my motor back from Gord and he was awesome. He stuck with the price even though i added stuff along the way.

Here are some pics:

From gord
http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae56/stylinleo/tim1.jpg
http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae56/stylinleo/tim2.jpghttp://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae56/stylinleo/tim3.jpg

Starting to get it back together smile
http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae56/stylinleo/IMG_1259.jpg
http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae56/stylinleo/IMG_1261-Copy.jpg

New turbo i picked up:)
http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae56/stylinleo/IMG00049-20110416-1941.jpg

Rob, i took your advice and sold the Greddy Emanage and was able to get a sweet deal on a dsmlink. It was only v2 but it will get me going for now.

Hoping to drop in the motor tomorrow if the weather holds up.


99 Eclipse GST RIP
08 Evolution GSR 440HP/410TQ
11.96 @ 116 MPH(more to come)
Re: Need honest machine shop in GTA [Re: Tim Sedore] #351154
April 21, 2011 03:18 pm UTC
April 21, 2011 03:18 pm UTC
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398
Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza Offline
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Holy, your turbo sure sits low with that v-band adapter plate. Any idea how its going to fit ?

What cams, and did you assemble the motor and degree them yourself ?


1G DSM: 1000+ AWHP, 9.2@162.83 MPH
Evo X: 746 AWHP, XR9569S pump gas
www.dynotuneracing.com



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