Hesitation/brake dragging?
#357082
July 12, 2011 02:09 am UTC
July 12, 2011 02:09 am UTC
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,304 Sudbury, Ontario
Kyle Guba
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Sudbury, Ontario
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Hey everyone Been having this nightmare for a couple months now. The symptom is that my car feels like its being completely held back.
DSM link shows the engine is running fine during this "hesitation".
I had a similar problem over a year ago and it was my rear calipers sticking. I replaced those at that time cuz i noticed my rear rotors were getting warm. The new calipers fixed that problem.
Little after that noticed my master cylinder was leaking, replaced that and car was good.
This winter is when I started having my recent problem. Same symptoms that the car felt held back, AND now my rear brakes were engaging before my fronts. So I changed my proportioning valve and rear calipers again, and didnt fix nothing.
Thought it was my cat converter, so i changed my exhasut with another one i have, same thing.
I can put my car up so no tires are on the ground and everything spins freely. (checked this cuz I also put a 4 bolt rear end in with a 22 spline tcase/tranny. I dont know if this makes a difference but it came out of a 23 splined car? To my understanding the ratios are the same? or are they not? car was fine for a couple months after this swap.
Idling, my car has about 18 or so for vacuum.. When i pump my brakes on idle, they get super stiff, vaccumm goes to 10 and sometimes lower, and car starts to suffer and want to die. after driving for a bit my pedal also feels hard. I changed my vaccuum valve between IM and the booster, even tho i tested the old one and it seemed fine, changed it, still same thing.
To test my booster, I pumped my brakes with the car OFF, till they got rock hard, and pushed while i started the car.. the pedal slowly went down with ease but no where near the floor.
Driver side front and passenger rear rotors also get real warm sometimes, without applying the brakes.... Id downshift and pull over and feel the rotors.
I also did not drain my booster when I had a leaking master cylinder... and at cruising speed, my car use to have vaccuum of about 15, now its at 10 on cruise load... 22 on decel while in gear.. Could my booster be bad even though it shows signs of being good? could it cause that section of brakes to stay on? The MC's were identical when i swapped them, its a reman. from part source.. could it be for a 91-94? my car is a 90.. they looked the same like i said.. is there a difference at all? Need help before this DSM goes down in flames! lol
Thanks in advance!
Last edited by Kyle Guba; July 12, 2011 02:54 am UTC.
- 97 Mona Lisa Spyder AWD
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Re: Hesitation/brake dragging?
[Re: Kyle Guba]
#357134
July 12, 2011 11:13 pm UTC
July 12, 2011 11:13 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749 Belleville, Ontario
Ryan Laliberte
No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
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No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
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Have you changed your flex lines? They may be collapsed.
AWDAuto 1996 TSi AWD Automagic12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G FP Green HTA - 11.42/123 Team Pump Gas and Meth RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts "Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim CarreyLast Login: September 28, 2021
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Re: Hesitation/brake dragging?
[Re: Kyle Guba]
#357356
July 15, 2011 02:53 am UTC
July 15, 2011 02:53 am UTC
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,304 Sudbury, Ontario
Kyle Guba
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Bled them again and still no good, and fixed my boost leak at the j pipe, theres a little leak behind the TPS, not bad tho. I think its been there forever lol. Went for a ride and didnt use the brakes.. Passenger front and driver rear were ice cold.. Driver front was a little warm and passenger rear was very warm.. Vaccuum still at 10 on cruise load, but im sure the engine is working jsut a but harder from behind held back from whatever it is!!.....
When i push the clutch to shift it feels free rolling again, then in gear hesitates.. its like my tcase is cooked or something.... Rear tires were locking up before the front in the winter time.. assuming the hesitation is from the rear..
Are master cylinders the same between ABS and non ABS?
If my brake booster was ripped would it suck air into it, and into the IM.. ?
Also activating my brakes with the extra air in the diaphram? .... heads spinning with questions.. lol
- 97 Mona Lisa Spyder AWD
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Re: Hesitation/brake dragging?
[Re: Rob Strelecki]
#357379
July 15, 2011 03:48 pm UTC
July 15, 2011 03:48 pm UTC
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
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Kyle, I think your transmission output shaft is welding itself to the center diff, or your center diff gears shims are broken or seized, causing your rear wheels to have a mind of their own. I bet the viscous coupling is burnt out already. Take off end case, remove VC clip, remove VC, turn over and if you see the inner plastic ring has been spat out from internally, then for sure its the center diff. Either way, I would have just removed the tranny by now. Why has it happened ? I am not sure. You have not provided enough trans info. Of course I could be wrong, and it might just be Fred Flinstone in the back of your car with his feet down
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Re: Hesitation/brake dragging?
[Re: Reza Mirza]
#357380
July 15, 2011 04:27 pm UTC
July 15, 2011 04:27 pm UTC
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,322 Loc: Loc:
Rob Strelecki
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morum foderator
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Re: Hesitation/brake dragging?
[Re: Rob Strelecki]
#357383
July 15, 2011 05:12 pm UTC
July 15, 2011 05:12 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,304 Sudbury, Ontario
Kyle Guba
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Ziggy i was thinking brakes because my passenger rear rotor gets hot, and driver side front, when i dont even use my brakes and come to a rolling stop...my car will roll just fine idling and stuff, all tires roll free when its up on stands... also only seems to be hesitation when there is load on the engine.. like its sucking air into the brake booster activating the brakes a bit as it gets on the gas it brings in more air hesitating it more as the diaphram fills.. when my car idles my brakes are alot softer then after being on the throttle.
My tranny is from Tim Grech... was apparently a fresh build... hoping its not my tranny.. put a dent in the wallet getting that off him... over a year ago .. so its only seen 10000, 15 000 km, if that.
Im not getting any abnormal reaction from the car during cornering, and I can launch at 5500 rpm with a solid take off, no unwanted noise just spoolin.
Ive had a wheel bearing seize up before (mine are all new right now) but it almost feels the same... of course not pulling or anything.. you can feel that its powering through it and wants to go, but cant.. but when she hits 25 psi it powers through and goes like snot..
Last edited by Kyle Guba; July 15, 2011 05:52 pm UTC.
- 97 Mona Lisa Spyder AWD
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Re: Hesitation/brake dragging?
[Re: Kyle Guba]
#357389
July 15, 2011 06:02 pm UTC
July 15, 2011 06:02 pm UTC
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,263 Niagara Falls, Ontario
Ziggy Dietrich
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Kyle, I was going to suggest wheel bearing as the cause of the warmth...but you say you have replaced them all?
I know you had brake booster issues, so maybe it IS something in that area? I really don't know...
"bluebird" worlds fastest scooter ridden by me "Whitebird" RIP
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Re: Hesitation/brake dragging?
[Re: Ziggy Dietrich]
#357392
July 15, 2011 06:13 pm UTC
July 15, 2011 06:13 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,304 Sudbury, Ontario
Kyle Guba
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Bearings are all good, I try and feel everywhere for heat.. Hubs, axles, diff, tcase, etc... but its just rotors. My fluid comes out smooth and clear, so I highly doubt its my brakes lines... BAHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARGGGAKJHFDAKH.... I have a booster in my garage from part source, but if I don't need it, that $350 would be nice to pay for what I do need lol
I just want to know if its possible to be sucking air from it.
Tried to have it fixed for the drags this weekend in Elliot lake. Prolly get beat by a neon if I tried
Last edited by Kyle Guba; July 15, 2011 06:57 pm UTC.
- 97 Mona Lisa Spyder AWD
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Re: Hesitation/brake dragging?
[Re: Kyle Guba]
#357394
July 15, 2011 06:29 pm UTC
July 15, 2011 06:29 pm UTC
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 847 St. John's, NL
Mike Penton
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I would do as Reza suggests, pull the end case off the transmission and check out the VC and centre diff for problems. Will not take you long at all, and you don't need to remove the transmission or any major parts to check things out.
Even if it's just for peace of mind, it would be my starting point based on the problems you're describing.
Mike
96 TSiAWD: GT3076R, FMIC, 3" turbo-back, FIC 750's, ECM-Link, Devil's own meth kit-11.99 @115.88 MPH
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Re: Hesitation/brake dragging?
[Re: Mike Penton]
#357395
July 15, 2011 06:31 pm UTC
July 15, 2011 06:31 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,304 Sudbury, Ontario
Kyle Guba
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Heading outside with my beer right now.. Ill post back later today. Thanks guys Makes me wonder how many dsm's are being wrenched on each day
Last edited by Kyle Guba; July 15, 2011 06:32 pm UTC.
- 97 Mona Lisa Spyder AWD
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Re: Hesitation/brake dragging?
[Re: Kyle Guba]
#357418
July 15, 2011 08:08 pm UTC
July 15, 2011 08:08 pm UTC
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
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Of course the VC will still be in one big piece. Flip it around and look closely at it, there is a plastic ring that spits out of it when it goes bad, from the side facing the bellhousing. Even if you don't see that ring it could have disintegrated. Look for a thick dark oooze that may have come out of the one side of it.
Yes a badly messed up center diff "can" cause the wheels to lock in neutral as well, depending upon how it is damaged.
How did your tranny fluid look ? dark and silvery ?
Its not the motor, the problem amplifies itself when you put load on the tranny and drivetrain.
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Re: Hesitation/brake dragging?
[Re: Reza Mirza]
#357427
July 15, 2011 08:27 pm UTC
July 15, 2011 08:27 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,304 Sudbury, Ontario
Kyle Guba
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No plastic at all anywhere, no oozing out of it, nothing between the 2 separate splines.
Oil wasnt overly dark, didnt smell overly bad either, and yes it had a bit of a grey shine to it.
- 97 Mona Lisa Spyder AWD
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Re: Hesitation/brake dragging?
[Re: Kyle Guba]
#357432
July 15, 2011 08:40 pm UTC
July 15, 2011 08:40 pm UTC
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
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Pull it out first, it should slide out easily. If it doesn't slide right out once you have the next case off, that means it overheated and most likely seized to the pinion gear. If seen that happen enough times. The shaft that goes into the center diff is what grinds away at the spider gears from inside. Pull it out and we'll go from there
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Re: Hesitation/brake dragging?
[Re: Kyle Guba]
#357452
July 16, 2011 12:07 am UTC
July 16, 2011 12:07 am UTC
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,304 Sudbury, Ontario
Kyle Guba
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-Rear wheels don't want to turn going around tight low speed right or left turns. -Nasty clunking coming from transmission area. -Car feels like it's being held back, may even die, when trying to backup and turn left or right. -Should be flakes of metal on the transmission drain plug. -Likely to occur after a hard launch
.... I dont really even have the symptoms though, its only in a straight line when when Im on the gas, or in gear off the gas... Like i said it almost feels like a wheel bearings starting to seize..
- 97 Mona Lisa Spyder AWD
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Re: Hesitation/brake dragging?
[Re: Kyle Guba]
#357453
July 16, 2011 12:16 am UTC
July 16, 2011 12:16 am UTC
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,304 Sudbury, Ontario
Kyle Guba
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"Thinking outside the box, sometimes brake boosters can develop vacuum leaks that are only exposed under hard braking, and then your engine would be sucking air brake booster vacuum line, and would run lean and could stall."
Found this in a post for a different car, but this is what I had been thinking was my problem.. with the hard peddle after accelerating, car dying if i pump brake, hesitation... SO gunna change that booster if this center diff isnt my issue... but how do i check my center diff??
If im in neutral rolling, does the transfer case still fully function? so i can cross that off the list? or does it some way some how disengage itself?
- 97 Mona Lisa Spyder AWD
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Re: Hesitation/brake dragging?
[Re: Kyle Guba]
#357455
July 16, 2011 12:45 am UTC
July 16, 2011 12:45 am UTC
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Well damn! You sure all the spider gears are intact and all ? They look fine through the holes, it spins smoothly, ? Have you opened it up to check the upper and lower gear?
What about your transfer case, have you pulled it off and check to see if it spins freely ?
What about each drive axle, any up/down play in any cv ?
Do you still have the stock line with check valve in it running to the brake booster ?
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