Lumpy idle off start
#388572
November 13, 2012 02:51 pm UTC
November 13, 2012 02:51 pm UTC
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Michael Lee
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Drove the car hard on Saturday then after the car sat I drove from my cousin's place in Orangeville down to Jane/Eglinton, dropped off the kids, then there was this really strong fuel smell in the cockpit.
I thought I was low on fuel so I put in some gas, started the car, and she struggled and put putted, but was good after a little bit.
Johnny L. told me to check the fuel lines under the hood and injector seals. I haven't had a chance just yet, but I have no idea what I'd be looking for either.
Just thought I'd toss this out there and get people's thoughts and insight.
If anyone could drop by on their way home or something that would be greatly appreciated as well.
I live at Yonge/Finch on Finch. If you've seen the black TSI on the north side parked during the day, that's me.
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#388577
November 13, 2012 03:02 pm UTC
November 13, 2012 03:02 pm UTC
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Bryan Lawrence
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I am with Johnny, I would check seals on the car. For me I smell fuel all the time. But supposedly that has to do with my upgraded lines and doesn't effect my performance.
What are your air fuel ratios looking like and your trims? If something is leaking you should be able to tell from those two. Also check your duty cycle.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#388582
November 13, 2012 04:31 pm UTC
November 13, 2012 04:31 pm UTC
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Bryan Lawrence
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Does the pump for you guys turn on with the key on? or does the car need to be on?
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#388592
November 13, 2012 05:42 pm UTC
November 13, 2012 05:42 pm UTC
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Bryan Lawrence
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Ok well I would just turn the car on and then check where all the seals are or you can hotwire the pump and check that way.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#388594
November 13, 2012 05:49 pm UTC
November 13, 2012 05:49 pm UTC
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Bryan Lawrence
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hahaha, yeah that would be amazing! k let us know, hot wiring would probably be the best cause it will keep the pressure in the system and allow you to hear and see what is leaking.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Jeff Mitchell]
#388598
November 13, 2012 06:07 pm UTC
November 13, 2012 06:07 pm UTC
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Michael Lee
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I would definitely do a visual check for leaks. Wipe around with a cloth and see if you find any fuel. Or maybe just wave a lighter around until you find it You might also start / stop the car and see if the spark plug tips are wet. I'm wondering if you've got an injector stuck open? Will do. Don't joke about things like your second suggestion, I would probably go and do it. LOL So dumb lately.
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Stephen Richardson]
#388602
November 13, 2012 06:27 pm UTC
November 13, 2012 06:27 pm UTC
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Michael Lee
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I wish there were something like remote desktop for this. LOL
I'll check tonight. Don't give the engineers anymore more silly idea's to put into cars. Hahaha, very true. They might just think of something like this. Well they already have the Android apps for the Chevys, I think it was, and OnStar.
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#388608
November 13, 2012 07:00 pm UTC
November 13, 2012 07:00 pm UTC
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Mike Eng
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yep that app is for remote start and monitoring. it's a pretty damn good idea too if you ask me. check the top of your intake mani for a pool of fuel, maybe a seal for the injector from the rail let go. happened to me earlier this summer. like tucan sam would say, FOLLOW YOUR NOSE you'll find that problem
'99 GSX GT35R '03 CBR 600RR
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#388624
November 13, 2012 08:35 pm UTC
November 13, 2012 08:35 pm UTC
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Michael Lee
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From Jafromobile on Youtube.
"I'd bet on a vacuum leak over injector seals. Unless you've already isolated the problem to the injector seals doing a boost leak test, confirm what's leaking with a boost leak test. There's a lot of different stuff that can cause what you describe, but most all of it will involve some form of an intake leak or an ignition problem."
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Terry S]
#388652
November 14, 2012 12:24 am UTC
November 14, 2012 12:24 am UTC
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Stephen Richardson
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+1 on a vacuum leak, also check around your evap canister/return line if you have a evap canister. You Fuel pump should cycle for 2 sec when the first turned on your cel will also illuminate for 2 sec thes is it bulb check.
You can verify by listening to your MPI relay it will click when you cycle the key to ON and click off in 2 sec at the sametime the CEL goes out. My 2g does NOT prime the fuel pump until I actually crank the engine, this is normal on MOST cars like my Civic but I think Mitsu did this on purpose as some sort of 'safety' precaution. Terry could be right. I would have to see the wiring diagram, I only have a 97 spyder diagram and they use a seperate MPI relay and fuel pump relay. I don't know what kinda safety precaution it is, priming the fuel pump actually helps with cold starts. Maybe because the Spyder is american they wire it different. But Mike if you jump the relay you can the run pump till you blue in the face or your battery dies. I don't know about a vacuum leak usually they cause higher idle not misfires. What kinda tuning logging setup do you have Mike?
Last edited by Stephen Richardson; November 14, 2012 12:26 am UTC.
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Stephen Richardson]
#388655
November 14, 2012 12:29 am UTC
November 14, 2012 12:29 am UTC
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Johnny Larmond
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sounds like your filter is starting to clog. 10 minute job and cheap too! UNTIL you snap the bracket trying to get the top banjo bold off because it hasn't moved in 15 years. lol You Fuel pump should cycle for 2 sec when the first turned on your cel will also illuminate for 2 sec thes is it bulb check.
You can verify by listening to your MPI relay it will click when you cycle the key to ON and click off in 2 sec at the sametime the CEL goes out. I'm not sure the 2Gs do this... I know my Cavalier did but I recall doing some serious research a while back for reasons that I can't recall. The pump is activated by something else that is only getting a signal when the engine is spinning I'm pretty sure. Can't recall what though. Michael, didn't you tell me your wires and plugs were new? Or am I mixing you up with someone else?
'97 GSX - DD and running strong '99 GSX Spyder - Running strong '99 GS - zzzz.
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#388670
November 14, 2012 03:30 am UTC
November 14, 2012 03:30 am UTC
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Mike Eng
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if you have link, you can just turn the bitch on sorry, i know that isn't contributing. have you checked the coil, wires, plugs, or the injectors and seals yet? i'm tempted to call BS on this thread and you're just using this an excuse NOT to get your but kicked at karting tomorrow.
'99 GSX GT35R '03 CBR 600RR
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#388671
November 14, 2012 03:31 am UTC
November 14, 2012 03:31 am UTC
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Michael Lee
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No worries guys. So I didn't pull the wires while the car was running, I chickened out. I did check around the injectors and fuel rail, found nothing. Didn't even smell. I pulled each wire though, and the one closest to the timing belt smelled a little like fuel not sure, just a stronger smell than the other before it, but no fuel in the spark plug well. I put it back and checked the back seat, and it smelled really strong there, so I thought it was leaking there, but why the heck would it be there? Well it wasn't, but the bottom of the seat where the foam is had a dark spot where the fuel pump is. I dunno what's going on, but now the car's fine. I started her up and checked around, no leaks that I could see so I thought I'd go for a test drive and put in some more gas. No smell in the cockpit and car runs "normal". Weird. Side note: I decided while I was out there I'd check my last clutch pedal adjustment job. Well I messed up and I probably did a lot of damage to my flywheel and wore out my clutch. I adjusted it properly, slave cylinder couldn't be pushed in, so I fixed that and now she engages first gear without shaking the whole car. Lesson learned. As for the fuel smell the other day...any ideas? Maybe letting her cool down "fixed" whatever it was?
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Mike Eng]
#388672
November 14, 2012 03:31 am UTC
November 14, 2012 03:31 am UTC
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Michael Lee
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if you have link, you can just turn the bitch on sorry, i know that isn't contributing. have you checked the coil, wires, plugs, or the injectors and seals yet? i'm tempted to call BS on this thread and you're just using this an excuse NOT to get your but kicked at karting tomorrow. LOL nope.
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#388677
November 14, 2012 03:40 am UTC
November 14, 2012 03:40 am UTC
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It's not just a smell, remember the car was idling all lumpy as if she was about to die.
Maybe I was just super low on fuel? Aiya, I dunno, I'm just going to keep my fingers crossed and keep the fuel topped up.
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#388679
November 14, 2012 03:58 am UTC
November 14, 2012 03:58 am UTC
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Mike Eng
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ohhh on the subject of fuel or BAD fuel, a couple of weeks ago at work, a customer brought in their new TL and it had half a tank of water, dirt and some gas...they had filled up at a DRUMMONDS on PERTH ST. in RICHMOND. ya, you heard that right. stay the frack away from OLD gas stations..and this was their premium grade fuel.
IT WAS A MESS!!!
'99 GSX GT35R '03 CBR 600RR
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#388690
November 14, 2012 04:30 am UTC
November 14, 2012 04:30 am UTC
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Mike Eng
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what's really terrible is that the gas station wouldn't take responsibility for it. the tech took samples using clear empty water bottles and pictures of the tank and the pump, the filter, injectors, and the gas station still didn't want to admit to it. they got maybe 10 minutes away from the station before having to be towed into our lot.
cost the customers thousands (can't say) to fix the problem.
'99 GSX GT35R '03 CBR 600RR
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#388833
November 16, 2012 02:48 am UTC
November 16, 2012 02:48 am UTC
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SO, the fuel smell is still there.
I'll poke around some more, but the car feels fine.
Start up is taking a wee bit longer than it normally does.
This weekend's supposed to be decent in terms of weather so I was thinking I'd take care of a bunch of stuff if I can borrow my buddy's jack and stands.
Fingers crossed. Newbie's gotta get dirty sooner or later right?
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Rob Cauduro]
#388874
November 16, 2012 03:15 pm UTC
November 16, 2012 03:15 pm UTC
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Michael Lee
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First things first. Remove rear seat, take the four screws out of the sending unit cover, get a flash light and your nose around that area with the car running. Check to see your hard lines out of the unit arent sweating from pin holes due to corrosion. Check to see the air lines arent hard and crusty. Thanks Rob I'll do that. With my luck there's probably a squirrel stuck in there trying to get out. lol
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#388875
November 16, 2012 03:34 pm UTC
November 16, 2012 03:34 pm UTC
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Mike Eng
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+1 on what rob mentioned.
You have no visible leaks, i checked under your car and the firewall, filter, rail..so next step is definitely to pop the lid on your sending unit and inspect those lines.
Mind you, it was a night when i looked at it. Loool
'99 GSX GT35R '03 CBR 600RR
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#388911
November 16, 2012 09:38 pm UTC
November 16, 2012 09:38 pm UTC
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Terry S
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#389035
November 18, 2012 08:01 pm UTC
November 18, 2012 08:01 pm UTC
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Good news kinda.
It's not the line itself, it's the "pipe" coming right out of the sending unit itself that has a pinhole in it.
So I guess all I need is a new sending unit.
Having trouble unplugging the "black" plug, white one came off, but the black one for the cover is being stubborn. Tips?
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#389094
November 19, 2012 02:27 pm UTC
November 19, 2012 02:27 pm UTC
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Mike Eng
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Definitely soak them nuts Funny story, earlier this summer i did my fuel pump and to crack that nut loose, i was reeming on it so hard, when it cracked, my fist came all the way up to my cheek..kind of felt like chuck lidelle gave me a little super man wake up slap LOOL Its a crammed area to work in, so that doesn't help either
Last edited by Mike Eng; November 19, 2012 02:31 pm UTC.
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#391754
January 07, 2013 07:10 pm UTC
January 07, 2013 07:10 pm UTC
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Mike Eng
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awww I see! huh, never knew. edit: forgot my shift key lol
Last edited by Mike Eng; January 07, 2013 07:10 pm UTC.
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#391995
January 11, 2013 02:08 am UTC
January 11, 2013 02:08 am UTC
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So I tried taking it off.
Stupid question, which way do I turn? Since I'm taking the nut off the line at the top of the sending unit I'm turning counter clockwise no?
I was bending the piping coming off the sending unit itself so I stopped for now and sprayed penetrating fluid for now.
Not too concerned about damaging the sending unit in the car now, since I'll be replacing it.
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#392000
January 11, 2013 03:47 am UTC
January 11, 2013 03:47 am UTC
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Ryan Laliberte
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The 2G swivel point is under the car IIRC, not at the sending unit.
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Mike Eng]
#392008
January 11, 2013 12:31 pm UTC
January 11, 2013 12:31 pm UTC
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Bryan Lawrence
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That's the "punch yourself in the face nut" becareful cracking it loose. That what I heard which is why I said frack it and cut the the neck off and did -6 to the rail.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#392011
January 11, 2013 01:38 pm UTC
January 11, 2013 01:38 pm UTC
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Mike Eng
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On that note, I wish all of our lines were ran through the body..like suburu's. Mike, how you making out? I ALMOST made this weekend a tdot trip but found what I was looking for locally
'99 GSX GT35R '03 CBR 600RR
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#392013
January 11, 2013 02:05 pm UTC
January 11, 2013 02:05 pm UTC
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Bryan Lawrence
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Well if you upgraded the lines you could run it though the cabin if you like.
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#392045
January 12, 2013 10:43 pm UTC
January 12, 2013 10:43 pm UTC
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Michael Lee
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I got it out of the car just now! Only thing is I wonder how I'm going to get the hard line back onto the sending unit?
I had to twist and hold it with a clamp then keep twisting, so to put it back on without having the line twisted, I either have to get under the car and take it off there, then put it back on or twist it a bunch and hope to get it on straight.
I'm confused.
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#392046
January 13, 2013 12:14 am UTC
January 13, 2013 12:14 am UTC
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Bryan Lawrence
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If you have any plans to upgrade the fuel filter now would be a good time, then you can just run new lines with an fittings.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#392068
January 13, 2013 06:03 pm UTC
January 13, 2013 06:03 pm UTC
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Mike Eng
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The filter on a 2g is on the firewall, under the battery. Not sure if you want to go there just yet but Mike, can you snap a pic of what you're dealing with. Text it to me.
'99 GSX GT35R '03 CBR 600RR
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#392074
January 13, 2013 07:48 pm UTC
January 13, 2013 07:48 pm UTC
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It's just the line, I have to twist the hell out of it to get it back on properly without getting under the car. I don't have a jack at the moment, so no going under the car. My plan is to do just that, get all the lines on and then call CAA to get some gas and a boost since my battery is dead and hopefully she's up and running today.
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#392145
January 14, 2013 09:07 pm UTC
January 14, 2013 09:07 pm UTC
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Yeah I twisted the sh!t out of the line, but couldn't twist it enough to get it on completely, but it's on. I'm thinking I'm going to have to jack it up and do it right. Can't be "twistable" but completely tightly on no? Of course dummy. So yeah, gonna borrow a jack from someone. The Jack in the picture broke.
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#392462
January 18, 2013 11:18 pm UTC
January 18, 2013 11:18 pm UTC
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,940 Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Michael Lee
OP
Insane Member
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OP
Insane Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,940
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Had one, lent it to someone and it broke.
My buddy has one, but he couldn't drop by in time and is out of town now.
I may have to bus it over to CT and pick one up, but wanted to get a better one than I had last time so it doesn't crap out as quickly.
No offense taken.
Edit: none on sale at the moment either
Last edited by Michael Lee; January 18, 2013 11:19 pm UTC.
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#392477
January 19, 2013 02:46 am UTC
January 19, 2013 02:46 am UTC
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,027 Port Hope
brendan warwick
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,027
Port Hope
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Had one, lent it to Brendan Warwick and it broke Lmao its still there if you want to try it, but the cast knuckle snapped into a few pieces lol. I would bring you one, but still don't have a licence. Hell I would've came and fixed your car along time ago if I had my licence... It is ct brand though, maybe it has lifetime warranty, I will try next time I go and let you know if you have a new one or not
Last edited by brendan warwick; January 19, 2013 02:49 am UTC.
1998 tsi awd, some mods 1997 spyder gst, some mods 1996 honda civic B20 2003 Honda Accord
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#395171
February 20, 2013 08:24 pm UTC
February 20, 2013 08:24 pm UTC
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,940 Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Michael Lee
OP
Insane Member
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OP
Insane Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,940
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Finally got the line back on the other day, was so cold.
Anyhoo' instead of starting a new thread I thought I'd just ask here.
So all I need now is gas and a battery charge.
3 months sitting, so how long of a drive do you guys think it'll take before it's good to turn off so I can get it back on again?
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#395172
February 20, 2013 08:27 pm UTC
February 20, 2013 08:27 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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Mike, most guys will tell you to charge your battery over night unless you want to replace your alt because it's being over run. At least that is what I was told when my batter was dead.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#395379
February 21, 2013 11:20 pm UTC
February 21, 2013 11:20 pm UTC
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,940 Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Michael Lee
OP
Insane Member
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OP
Insane Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,940
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Was going to do it right now, but the car is sitting in the driveway, and it's dipping down to -10 tonight.
Question is, is there an operating temperature for these types of chargers or am I good to just leave it under the hood of the car and leave it charging overnight or just until midnight then take it off and charge some more tomorrow?
Or just start it up after 6 hours ish at 2amps?
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#395398
February 22, 2013 12:38 am UTC
February 22, 2013 12:38 am UTC
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,809 Ottawa, ON
Mike Eng
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,809
Ottawa, ON
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Well Einstein, it's probably frozen Usually you can see frost accumulate on the outside of the battery casing. And if it's swelling, good sign it's frozen too.
'99 GSX GT35R '03 CBR 600RR
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Mike Eng]
#395402
February 22, 2013 12:52 am UTC
February 22, 2013 12:52 am UTC
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,940 Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Michael Lee
OP
Insane Member
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OP
Insane Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,940
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Well Einstein, it's probably frozen Usually you can see frost accumulate on the outside of the battery casing. And if it's swelling, good sign it's frozen too. How'd you know Einstein was my middle name!?
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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Re: Lumpy idle off start
[Re: Michael Lee]
#396263
March 02, 2013 10:01 pm UTC
March 02, 2013 10:01 pm UTC
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,940 Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Michael Lee
OP
Insane Member
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OP
Insane Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,940
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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She's alive!!! Thanks for all the help guys. That's another thing to add to my knowledge base that I can do now. Got a replacement battery from CT, they upgraded me to an Eliminator for free, because the regular motomaster wasn't in stock. Yay. Popped her in a couple of hours ago, started up after a few put puts, went to pick up some Kotthu Rotti from a place in Scarborough called Gasa. Mmm. Feels good to boost again and drive again. Damn. Bigass smile on my face.
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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