Hey all;

So, last night was the first night of my new business, Responsible Rides - Quinte's Designated Drivers.

I'm in the process of trying to get insurance for my company and my drivers.

Now, in Ontario, it is completely legal to drive anyone's car as long as their car is insured, you are over the age of 25 and hold a valid G class license.

Also, it is completely legal and insurable to be involved in an at-fault accident in someone else's vehicle as long as you have been given permission from the owner to drive that vehicle. Their insurance covers you and their vehicle.

What I am being told by my insurance company is any insurance company in Ontario will deny a claim if money is being exchanged.

Example:

You have been drinking at a friends house. You call your buddy to come and get you and drive you in your car home because you have been drinking. It's snowing out and you hit black ice and go into the ditch. The car rolls over, and is written off. You are injured as well as your buddy. No charges are laid.

Insurance WILL cover the claim, or so I'm told.

Example 2:

You have been drinking at a friends house. You call a DD service to come and get you and drive you in your car home because you have been drinking. It's snowing out and you hit black ice and go into the ditch. The car rolls over, and is written off. You are injured as well as the DD.

Insurance will not cover it because you were paying the person to drive you home.

EXACT SAME SCENARIO!!! The difference being, you gave the driver a $20 bill.

Now, is my insurance agent completely on glue? I wanted to take out Non-Owner Ontario Driver Policies on my drivers to ensure they are covered, but the insurance company wants to charge me $3800/year PER DRIVER!

It costs me $1200/year to insure my 2005 Subaru Imprezza 2.5RS under an artisan policy with the car all decaled up, including comprehensive, fire, theft and glass. My record is spotless and I'm rated the highest of everything.

But apparently my driving habits change because I run a business so I am being extorted for over 3X my premium and that is to cover liability and comprehensive up to $30,000

A General Business Liability insurance package does not cover anything to do with an automobile or the operation of.

Am I being extorted here? I want insurance for my company, period. I will have a General Liability coverage as of next week, which is cheap. My company vehicle is insured under a business policy.

The risk is SO LOW of something terrible like this happening, however I'm told that insurance companies do not understand what a DD service is, so they have no way of classing it. I'm put into the highest risk possible with the largest premium. They don't understand it partially because the fat man who's my insurance broker doesn't know how to explain it.

Jump ship you say? Sure! I will in 3 years when my accident rolls off my file. I have accident forgiveness so my rate didn't change when I hit black ice last year and hit the pole in the GLI. My record is spotless otherwise.

Anyone have any insight?

Could you argue that the customer is paying for a volunteer to be dropped off at his location and picked up at the final destination? Not for the actual act of them driving the vehicle?

No, because the business is what it is. And they aren't volunteers.

Did you miss the memo? The insurance companies OWN this province and can do whatever the hell they want. The police are their "enforcers", and our politicians can't do anything besides stuff their pockets.

If you want to live in a "free country" you are on the wrong side of the border....

Twice now I have told my MPP about some of the insurance company scams, and he started out by telling me I am mistaken, that is not possible. After proving to him what the insurance companies are doing, his investigation reported back "apparently what they are doing is within the law". I suggested he should work to CHANGE the laws, but then he never calls me back anymore...

Leaving now to go and take my Prozac..

Ryan, when I started my business, I called my insurance company to ask them what this would do to my premiums. They asked if I already had the business license, and I told them yes. They replied that as of this very moment I am no longer covered, and can't drive my car, because they don't cover commercial policies.

WTF?

Does this mean, since the "insurance companies" are not REQUIRED to sell me insurance, I am not required to buy it? NO, of course not. But what kind of "rules" are these? I must buy insurance, but they are not required to sell it to me?

I propose a NEW law....no car allowed on the road without an RTM Racing shift knob, but I can charge what I want for them and decide who I do and don't want to sell them to. That is the business model for the insurance companies in this wonderful police state we call Ontario.

NOW I am going for my Prozac..

One more thing...you REALLY have me wound up this morning...

EXTORTION in Ontario is OK, as long as you are a big corporation. I once went to the police and reported that I was a victim of extortion. All was good, until they asked who the extortionist was, and I told them GMAC financing. At that point, they LITERALLY just laughed......

OK, I have to get away from this keyboard and take my Prozac NOW!!

Balls! That's awful Ryan..and Ziggy, you made me

There must be a "loop hole" or something..maybe talk to Grant Redfern?

Also, I thought it took 6 years for an accident to come off your record, 3 years for driving infractions..?

I think talking to Grand Redfern might be a good idea. Otherwise, you might just need to "take your chances" and just hire a good lawyer IF and WHEN an accident happens...

Lawyers...let's get started on those.....
Everyone know the difference between a lawyer and a mosquito?
One is a filthy blood sucker, the other is an insect...

Well...

Insurance companies will tell you that they're not making much cash on auto insurance. This, you see, is due to all the corrupt people in Ontario.

Insurance is just as you said.

I can tell you...
My Talon got hit from behind by an 18 wheeler. I got blamed because i was turning into the other lane. Stop and go traffic. I lost some paint, the truck lost a light.

That report that said young males were worse than young females? Started in 1968. Completed 1972. It did indeed find young males had more accidents. But it also went on to say that males do the vast majority of driving, and that young males drive more than young females. It was something like 4:1.

My buddy had to take his insurance company to the Ombudsman or such when his insurance company broke the law. And they did the same thing years later, and "lost" the verdict.

All around disgusting companies with which to deal.

I have talked to Grant. He's the one who suggested the Artisan policy for my company cars since I'm similar to a Real Estate agent. My cars are all decaled up.

You say the "B" word and the price SKYROCKETS! You are making money, so they want to as well.

I wonder, can you ask them to provide you with a written report to state the risks and why you are being classed so high? If they don't have a class for me, then they have to fit the premium to the risk.

Instead they are fitting the premium to the lack of knowledge of the risks.

You can ASK for the sun and the moon, but all they will GIVE you is the shaft. Every time they think of another "trick" to grab more cash, they implement it.....and if someone actually FIGHTS it, they have the politicians in their pockets, so they just get the laws changed to make it legal...

Some of the recent ones:
With motorcycle insurance, some companies will ONLY issue policies that expire in February, regardless of when you sign up. You also agree when you accept the insurance to "auto renew", even though the policy is expired. That means their obligation to you is finished, but yours to them goes on. If you are not thinking about your bike in February, and don't send in the renewal, they "auto renew" you, then IMMEDIATELY cancel your policy for non payment of premiums. Now, whenever you go for insurance, they ask: Have you ever had a policy cancelled for non payment of premiums? Now you must answer yes, and your premiums are tripled.

Then of course, there is the "gap" business. If you are not CONTINOUSLY insured, you are treated as a new driver when you go to get insurance again. I suppose that means you don't forget how to drive, as long as you pay insurance premiums, but once you don't pay, your memory is wiped clear?

Then the latest one....if there is a gap in the insurance for a particular vehicle. If you take a vehicle off the road, cancel the insurance, and then try a few months later to put it BACK on the road. They have a special category, and charge you triple again. If you buy a car from someone else, and want to insure that, you get your normal rate, but if you want to insure a car you already own, it costs triple. I have no idea WHAT the logic is there? I guess they are just saying you didn't pay us for a while, so we are going to charge you triple to make up for it.

Insurance has to be THE most crooked business anywhere, just a little worse than banking. I think they provide the business model for the mafia....

Can you create your own insurance through your business? I know it's a wacky-tacky idea but that way your vehicles would be insured (to respect the laws) and since it's yours you only deal with yourself in case of problems.

I've always contemplated the idea for later because I despise pretty much any insurance company as they are indeed just money grabbers and try anything and everything to get out in helping you when you need them.

I believe this is what Canada Post does (their vehicles are not insured) and other crown corporations. I believe it requires placing a 2 million dollar bond.

I was going to say, there would need to be some way that the money is GUARANTEED to be there in case anything does happen. Definitely not viable for most people.

LOL props to ziggy for actually taking the time to go to an MP and complain to them that insurance is fraudulent.

Insurance companys are a joke. They have the law on there side... They can charge whatever rediculous premiems they want because you HAVE to pay them or else you aren't driving

dont even get me started about "high risk drivers" if you have 2 tickets your paying $200 a month but if you have 3 tickets your paying tripple that at $600 plus because your "high risk"

Oh and by the way... they count completly irrelivant tickets. like "no muffler"

I once got a ticket out of spite from my step dad who is a police officer because he doesent like me. I was told by the prosecutioner that he could take care of it but it woulden't be "worth all the hassle"

sorry for the rant LOL. I feel strongly on the subject...

Get involved in an accident where you need health benefits, income replacement, etc.. and then you will see what the biggest joke is!!

All take and no give. I'm in the wrong line of work!

trust me im aware... my sister in law was in a pretty serious accident. 3 years later and shes still fighting with the insurance company for payment... still going to see quack doctors that are chosen by the insurance company who try and convince you that you are "fine"

all you get when buying insurance is a piece of paper that sais your legal for the road. Anything else good luck.

That's the law though.

Glad my advice was useful to you it seems.

So much hate for my industry, no wonder I'm constantly trying to change the typical insurance stereotype.

But the industry DOES bring it on themselves....some of the crap the insurance industry pulls SHOULD be illegal. Like I said, when I first told my MPP about some it, he wouldn't even believe it was possible....

Hard to "untarnish" the image when the companies ARE crooks..