OK, so Tony and I were doing the timing on my '92 TSi AWD 6-bolt, we matched up all the timing marks, and did the procedure correctly, Tony has done this on many occasions...so now we get to the part where we are supposed to turn the engine over by hand (it feels funny) we rechecked all the timing marks and everything was ok, so what gives??? We decide that its only paranoya , start the car, maybe Tony can buzz in here to describe the sounds better but to me it sounds like rubbing metal, rechecked all the timing marks and everything is ok...so now we finished off for the night and we're both pissed off , any and all suggestions are welcome...

p.s. We did account for the exhaust cam tendency to be off by a tooth...HELP

make sure the tensioner pulley is aligned correctly. It can be accidentally set 180degrees off ( i know...ruined 2 timing belts in my car..all within 2000kms).

the buzz might sound like belt rubbing against the oil pump case/TB case if the tensioner is off. BTW, tension will be correct and timing will match up...UNTIL you run your car.

We did run the car, for an all of 30 seconds...timing still matched up...Tony said the "weird feeling" comes on a cycle...eg: TDC...I dunno, I miss my car already...

Sorry to hear this. I hope its nothing to serious. But........well you know. take it apart and try again i guess. I havent done a timming belt on these's cars, and im scared to do one to. I hope it works out for yah

the belts or the cover could wear off something?

the tensioner vibrates?

the waterpump????

AMin

Started with only the timing belt on. No alternator, no water pump belt, no ac, no power steering.
While turning the timing belt by hand from the crankshaft i noticed that there was a bit of resistance but no enough to stop the belt from turning.
Also when we started the job the oil pump pulley must of been 100' degrees out of phase, yes 100' degrees not 180'.
Could the that cause the noise.
It kinda sounds like the starter scraping the flywheel, but I highly dought that.

Thanx again Tony for doing everything you can man...You definately get

Oil pump sprocket 100' off? Are the balance shafts still in? Cuz that would cause some crazy vibrations if they are. If there are no balance shafts, the alignment on the oil pump sprocket doesn't matter, it's only to align the rear balance shaft.

Adrian, the balance shafts are in, one of the main reasons for doing the belt was to put the shafts in phase...there was some crazy vibrations...

OK, Tony and I are gonna try to put that oil pump and balance shaft out of phase to see if that's causing the problem...expect an update Thursday night...

OK, just got in, and we almost had it, the oil sprocket was rotated and put out of phase almost identical to the way it was...we started it but it needed a little adjustment...frack we're out of ideas, anyone out there??? Len, Scott, Marko??? Anyone with any good ideas???

bump...

first, is it possible you over-tensioned the bS belt. Press the belt down on the TOP (middle, between the 2 pulleys) and it should go down between 5-7mm. If not, release some tension.

Are the timing marks correct on the BS pulleys. I'm sure Tony thought of this, but sometimes its possible to overlook.

measure the auto-tensioner protrusion. distance between the tensioner arm and the auto-tensioner body. Should be between 3.8-4.5mm if the belt was tensioned correctly.

How did the engine run during that 30seconds. Was everything ok with the exception of the noise you were hearing.

The tensioner is probally 3.0 mm and the car ran a little rough for the 30 sec. Note the car hadn't run for a day and it was very cold outside.
The car has good compression because when i stick my long 3\8" extension in the cylinder it comes flying out when trying to fine Top Dead Centre.
One thing a did notice was the oil pump sprocket does turn very smoothly. It could be just the oil pump gears messhing together but I don't remember that feeling that when i did my timing belt.
I have no clue what this could be.

When the belt is on all markings matched up and then when i turn the crank (by hand) everything turns fine (approx. 1/2 turn) then the crank suddenly slows. With a little more force the crank starts turning again.
What the fu*!#*k could this be.

I think Tony meant it didn't turn very smoothly...

The crank should get tight and loose as you go. The compression stage means harder crank.

but all in all this is disgrace to the club, Bart's our A$$ Man's car is problematic and this thread has gone done. I am sure a good proportion of people have done their TB's here. WHere is the knowledge boys.

first step is to take the balance shaft belt out. To make sure the noise is caused by the main TB.

then it could be very much what Jeremy described to me once.

On other thing that came to my mind right now is that the tensioner pully is not absolutely flat to the belt. it is seating at an angle so the pressure on it varies with time(rotation of the belt) and it hits on the tensioner pin. it hits on it and them comes off and again

did you change the tensioner?
maybe the tensioner assembly is not dead flat to the engine body?

anyways take the Balance belt out and try.

but you might have moved the crank and it could be the starter as tony said. but unlikely unless you have crankwalk.

other than that while down there you might have touched the inspection plate and it is rubbing off the flywheel.

and one other stupid thing. you didn't let anything go inside the cylinder?

AMin

Taken into account...

That's what I'm saying...

Yes I changed the tensioner...yes it's tightly in place...

Highly unlikely as it is a 6 bolt...

Hell no, we first used the spark plug cover to insure nothing went down, then we used shop rags...no chance in hell anything went down there...

If there are no spark plugs you have no compression.

You guys figured this out yet? You have me stumpped.

yeah but weren't they trying with the plugs in?

also when the timing belt is back on when the valvle are being pressed is a tight moment!

no sparks in, had an extension in there to find TDC, and no it's not figured out yet...

TDC for one of them or for the all four?

and by any chance did you rotate the crank with the belt off?

in what shape is the belt guide, the plate that segregates the two sub pullies for timing and balance on the crank?

Amin

TDC for #1, as for the rotating the crank...Tony???

There's nothing wrong with a little BUMP and grind...

Just thought I'd let everyone know the car is running again...wow, i really needed to get this done, I only had like %80 of the power I have now...HOLY sh!t, it's so sweet!!! Thanx to everyone that helped, especially Tony "The Man" Vaz...weeeeeeee-ptssssssss

so, ya wanna tell us what the problem was?

There's a little plate behind the crankshaft sprocket, it was put on backwards by the shop that did the timing last...the pistons were never coming to TDC

the plate between the BS gear and the timing belt gear? That plate would never stop the pistons from going TDC.?

The plate that goes directly behind the crankshaft sprocket. (probally the same one your talking about Len)
Here's the scoop,
When we first started the TBelt replacement job I notice that the oil pump sprocet was out of phase.
Replaced balance belt (had to remove plate) replace t Belt(like I've done Half a dozen times before).
Reinstalled the plate just like i found it.
Cranked engine BY HAND and noticed a slight resistance while rotating.
I'm thinking "what the fu#%*k"
Used a bit more force that it started turning again. contiuned rotating and again more resistance.
I'm thinking again "sh!t timing marks must be off".Rechecked and notice that the camshafts weren't algined perectly.(half tooth out). I didn't think that that would matter but took the belt off and reinstalled it.
Again same thing with the resistance.
Now i'm scratching my head and thinkhing ,you guessed it "what the fu#@$k".
Engine turns over so i tell Bart to start the car.
I never heard such a horrible noise coming out of a Talon engine. Something was banging something, but the car still ran.
You guys know what thinking "what the fu_k, the engine must be toast now."
By this time its dark and we left it for a couple days.
Came back, took the belt off, again, and tried to put the oil sproket the way it was before we started the job.
No good, still has the resistance in her.
Tried the oil sproket in many different poistions but all had the same trouble, just like the first time.
Now thats when Bart came on here looking for some suggestins because by time I was all out of them.
Left it for another couple days.
Went home, looked at the VFAQ to see if i missed something.
Thats when I releaized that the Plate(the one mentioned earlier) could be installed backwards.
Went back to Bart's place (for the third time) Took everything back out reinstalled the plate and Fuckin Bingo everything workds perfectly.
What a relief I thought the engine was toast.

Anyways,back to you Len,
it would go to top dead centre(actually it would go slightly pass TDC) didn't think much of it because it was perty damn close.

Still to this day I don't know what the noise was, but i suspect that the balance shaft was just nicking the crankshaft or piston rods.

THE END.