Hi Guys,

I just got a set of new mags, and I got the itch of lowering my car.

It's a 2G AWD 98 with 80 000km on it, 17" mags. I want to lower it about an 1 - 1.5 inches.

I read DSMreviews, and there doesn't seem a definite brand everyone likes.

Can you guys recommend a brand?
And, is it really worth changing the shocks? (even with 80 000 km on it)

Thanks,

Good question Anthony

I'm getting the Eibach springs when I get the cash for them. In regards to shocks. I'm also changing those. To what...I don't know yet. I myself would change them thinking that thousands of dollars was spent on stock suspension when the vehicle was in design. The question is, if you lower the car, can the stock shocks take the height difference & would the ride be the same without putting safty on the line. These are just my opinions on what inside my head . Of course I could be wrong, so please if others are out there who slammed there rides while keeping the stock shocks, please post.

Hey Matt,

Thanks for the input. Any reason you are going with Eibach springs?

B&G springs are one of the top manufacturers out there and they are almost $100 cheap then eibach.

another good manufacturer is Apex, i have them on my car and i am very satisfied. they will run you about the same as a set of eibachs.

Upgrading the shocks when you lower your car is a must, as the stock shocks cannot handle being lowered, and the ride will be terrible. (in addition to hitting the bump stops)

I have Apex springs in my 97 Tsi, and I noticed a dramatic night and day difference when I upgraded to the Tokico blues (adjustable shocks are not necessary IMO, but it's ultimately your choice) The ride is firm, but smoother and more controlled as opposed to using the stock hardware.
Again, the choice is yours whether you want to upgrade the stock shocks or not, but I would STRONGLY recommend doing so. (If you're going to do something, do yourself a favor and do it right)
Additionally, camber correction hardware is an absolute necessity, as your camber and toe will be off by a significant amount once the car is lowered.
With rubber costing in excess of $1100, you'll be glad you spent the money in lowering your car properly to promote even tire wear, comfortable ride and increased handling.

Dan

Well, there are just so many companies to choose from. So, like any consumer, we go with the flow and go with the most talked about product on the market that has reputation. I'm I glad that Shawn and Dan came into this...it opened my mind and now I'm more clear than before

Camber correction hardware? Wow. I would have never thought about that one. I'll do some research on it.

Thanks again guys.

Mach V motorsports carries camber correction hardware that is quite good. Most notable is the front upper A -arm anchor bolts made by ingalls.
These units allow a wide range of camber adjustment.
http://www.machv.com/19eccamhar.html

Also note that toe in/toe out is just as important as camber. A lot of people mistake uneven tire wear as a result of bad camber, when in actuality, their toe is off.

Finding a good shop to do the alignment can be tough though. It seems that the majority of shops use the standard laser units that attach to each wheel. However, every where I went said that they could not use this hardware on my car, as the front units would not clear the bumper.
Consequently, you need to find a shop that uses mirrors and such. London Honda has such a rack, and was able to perform an accurate alignment on my car, without having to take off the front bumper. Camber, Caster and Toe were all adjusted quite well, and my tires are wearing very evenly, with no "dog tracking" when driving.

The alignment is just one more thing to consider when lowering your car.

Lowering in a nutshell: Don't do it.

Seriously though.......I honestly can say that unless you perform ALL the steps: Springs, Shocks, Camber hardware, alignment, the results will not be optimal, and you will not be satisfied, so my advice is: Do it right, (which sadly equals time+$$$) or don't do it at all.
On the plus side, the car does look really cool.....

Well installed eibach sportlines 2" drop on stock shock and they are hold up pretty well. The ride is a little ruff but not ruff enough to bother me. And I don't think a camber correction kit is needed unless you are dropping more then 2". I'm not saying my camber is perfect my front wheel are good but my back wheels are slightly negative but not worth getting a camber kit. And a alignment is a must.

Dan,

Thanks for the amazing input. I've suddenly lost the itch of lowering my car.

Seriously, I didn't think it was that 'complicated'. I need to re-evaluate the budget here. What am I now looking at here? $1200 - $2000 for a good job?

Has everyone gone through this trouble when they lowered their cars?

What to do, what to do...

Dan, once again, thanks for taking the time in giving us a crash course in suspensions.

I just put on the Tokico lowering springs and their illumina adjustable shocks on my 2g fwd a couple weeks ago and this setup is amazing. Lowers the car 1.5"'s just like they said it would and the car handles alot better now, doesn't squat or dive and hardley any body roll around corners. If you set the shocks on 5 (firmest setting) you get pretty much no body roll but it is a fairly hard ride for everyday driving. I currently have mine set to 3 and they handle great. Also with only a 1.5" drop my alignment looks pretty good. All you need to buy is a spacer kit with longer bolts (can get from Ziggy) to take out some of the -tve in the rear camber, which will cost you $13. Then go get an alignment done to fix your toe in/out.

As mentioned, some of the steps I mentioned are optional. BUT, speaking from experience, I can say that with the ~1.5" drop from the Apex springs, camber in both the front and back was off. I drove the car for about 2 months with the stock shocks, and the ride was very choppy and bouncy. This can boil down to a personal preference thing, which is why I state that replacing the shocks is optional. However, I will say that after putting the Tokicos in, I was MUCH happier with the ride quality.

Use these tips/suggestions at your own discretion of course, as they are based solely upon my own experience with this whole endeavour.
I was heartbroken when my relatively costly Falkens displayed very obvious uneven tire wear in just one season of use (the fronts were particularly bad)

It has been said that you don't need camber hardware if you go with a 1.5" or less drop. However, the alignment rack doesn't lie.

Dan

You guys who say you "don't think a camber correction kit is needed", or that your "alignment looks pretty good" after lowering really ought to post some actual alignment numbers to back those comments up.

I agree with everything Dan has said. If you're going to do it, do it right, and your alignment will be out of spec even with a 1.5" drop (I know mine was).

My car was dropped 2.5 inches with Ground Control coilovers and Koni sport shocks. I used thick washers and longer bolts on the rear upper A arm to bring the camber back to -1 degree and I left the front camber as is at -1.8 degrees. My toe was way out on all four corners but was realigned to 0 this spring before heading out on the road. Check my ride out on the link below.

I can second that, I went with the same setup, the illumina adjustable suspension kit, with a 1.8 inch drop on a 2G AWD.
The car is nice and tight when you want, or is comfortable to drive around when you loosen up the dampers.
And to tell you the truth, I got it all off Ebay for a pretty ridiculous price. The seller's name is jdmwerks. Anyone interested should check it out.

Mike

I got mine from the same guy off off ebay. Saved about $400 over buying them from a local shop in Canada, and only took about a week to get by express mail.

Hey Steve,

If you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay for your setup...

For the following
"Koni sport shocks, Ground Control coilover sleeves,Eibach springs, Energy Suspension bushings in the rear and the front upper control arm, front and rear strut tower bars, custom made camber kit on rear upper control arms"

I'll third what Dan has been saying. However, you can do it part way and be happy, even though it's not optimum. There is trade-offs and as long as you know about it, it's your choice.

My setup:
Springs - Eibach Prokit, 15-20mm drop
Dampers - GAB (super stiff)
Camber - Front: Ingalls Camber Bolts -> -1deg.
Rear: seized camber adj. -> -2.3deg.

I've had this setup for five years now and I'm fairly happy. The front GAB's are little too high a damping rate but overall it's been good. Camber bolts aren't the best way to do it because they are inaccurate and some people (I have been told) have had the camber change on it's own! I also question their strength. I'm waiting for coil-overs before I do a camber kit.

I wear the inside of the rear tires because the toe adjustment is seized on mine (don't you love old cars). I believe the AWD's have a passive rear toe mechanism. The rear toes in under braking and toes out when accelerating. Something like that. I don't know how lowering affects this other than maybe increasing the rate of toe change.

If you lower you should definetly correct the camber and since you'll have stiffer springs you will need dampers that can actually dampen those springs. Also, don't forget the more camber you run the less effective your brakes are in a straight line since you reduce the contact patch.

Correcting if I'm wrong, but, doesn't adding camber plates raise the car back up ~20mm?

cheers.

I believe I paid $1600 Canadian for the Koni's and the GC's, taxes included and shipping included from Paul Sitarski at Mach1motorsports.ca or he also on this board.

The bushings were $103. The strut bars were $125 for both. Pm Paul for a quote.

Thanks Steve..

Do you recommend your setup? Would you buy again?
Anything you don't like about your setup?

I recommend my setup 100%. And I would do it again for sure.