Hey everyone,

The time has come to start looking at new cars; in my wish list is a 1997-98 Talon Tsi. With this being said I fear crank walk.. I was wondering if anybody would care to take a stab at the odds of getting a talon that will develop it, (1 in 3 -- 1 in 100) Etc. and is there a particular time at the cars life at which it develops it.

Please humor my ignorance, Thanks, James

Not to directly answer your question, but my advice is not to buy that car unless you can have money set aside (for a 6-bolt swap) in case it walks.

They ALL walk. Some never show signs, it doesnt mean its not walking.

Take Robs advice, esspecially if you are getting a 97.

This is just some stats in one of many many many threads on DSM Tuners. This guy did a small survey.
Think about how many DSM's were made in those years and how many more have walk. They all walk, its just some dont show symptoms till later or never.

Of the 1800+ cases I have received:
(updated 10-10-2002)

50% were "1997 Turbo DSMs" *

17% were "1996 Turbo DSMs" *

9% were "1995 Turbo DSMs" *

12% were "1998 Turbo DSMs" *

11% were "1999 Turbo DSMs" *

1% were "1994 or older 1g Turbo DSMs" (most of these had over 100,000 miles and were moderately to heavily modded **.)

1% were "Other" Non Eclipse/Talon/Laser vehicles with 4G63 turbo motors. (IE Galant VR4s, or Transplant cars, most of these had over 100,000 miles and were moderately to heavily modded **. )

To narrow this down even further:

85% were Manual Transmissions.

15% were Automatic Transmissions.

a couple other interesting notes:

The Milage on crankwalking cars ranged from 1,200 to well over 100,000 (the average landing right around 50,000 miles)

About 60% of the entire number of cars was Moderately to Heavily modded ** with the remaining 40% being Stock to Mildly modded **

98% of the people that I talked to that fixed their cars using NEW 2g parts (weather it was a new crank and bearings OR a new short block) had their NEW motors crankwalk again!! Most before 24,000 more miles.

2% have not had problems again (yet)...

.5% of the people that I taked to that fixed their cars with a 1g/Jspec motor swap had cankwalk return.

Register on DSM Tuners, and do a search on crank walk, youll be reading for weeks. Tones of info. If I were you I would LOOK for a totally walked 2g, pick it up from florida or something for dirt cheap, and use the rest of the money you were planning to spend on the car to put a 6 bolt in. There are sooooooo many fakin people who dont know what club dsm is who own a walked 2g and just want rid of it.

Thats my advice, I too will own a 2g soon, this is how Im doing it.

You could Buy Noahs 2g, It has a 6 bolt so crankwalk is not much of an issue.

Thanks for your input guys! Rob C, that's a huge amount of good info thats exactly what I was looking for.

Thanks again,
James

Been there done that and bought the T-Shirt. No more walk for me.

Im selling my 97 with a powertrain warranty. So if she walks, you're covered.

It's probably already walking and you don't know yet. When was the last time you had the shaft measured for play?

Im willing to bet anyone that has a 2g that the end play is out of spec. (walking)

Just cause its not showing signs, or still running great, means nothing. Go ahead, anybody, get the end play checked.

Not trying to imply anything here, jsut after all the reading I have done on the subject, I am certain almost every 2g turbo after 96 has an 90% a chance the crank endplay is out of spec.

So is it more common for the awd or fwd to crankwalk? or are they the same? Also where is a good spot to go to get the shaft play measured?

Oh ya? What will they do under warranty if it is walking?

Well, first the mechanics at Mitsu will do a big dance in the shop jumping for joy, then tell you the price will be 4-6k to put a new bottom end in there, and they will be laughing the whole time, cause chances are, it will walk again shortly.

KW Mitsu quoted my $1500 for a bottom end rebuild. This was after they already said they had $1000 of work done. I negotiated that $1000 down to $500 and pulled my car out of there and had Radim do a swap to a 6 bolt for me. I now have no fear of walking again which makes a guy a bit more confident when he steps on an aftermarket clutch when it's cold in the morning.

Well what ever they do I don't care, just know it will get fixed. Most likely not for a very long time, but if it lasts another 100,000 km, thats good enough for me.

I have a 95 that walked at 120k, put a junk engine in that lasted 1k. So, I rebuilt a 91 JDM engine and installed it with no fear of having to walk again. maybe its wishful thinking though.

My endplay is within spec, measured it last weekend. My motor has taken beatings too.

Regardless I'm doing a 6 bolt swap as we speak, motor arives monday. Honestly you can go in a 2g and never get crankwalk but some say all will walk eventually. I'm sorta inbetween because I do think they will walk but mine keeps taking a beeting and has never changed on end play and I measure it for the hell of it since I don't care anymore. Ignorance is bliss so I never measured it in the beginning lol..

Regardless, just know that down the road you may need a motor. NO biggie, they are $1300-1500 depending on what you get.

i fell into this bracket 2 years ago, but rob speaks the truth, i did some mods to my 90 AWD that the engine probably couldnt handle, 19PSI on pump gas(Sunoco 94) with a MBC, K&n and Stock SMIC crap. oh yeah, and oil leaks galore.

i imagine it had something to do with evertythime i took her out for a beating, i lost alot of oil, so i more than likely starved the crank of oil.
isn't that was causes 2g crankwalk?

Thrust Bearing Oil starvation is one of the big theory.

Added Pressure from an Aftermarket Clutch might not help the cause.

My line of tought is that lots of 2G are going to fall out of the Sky soon...

Keep your eye open at you local Used Car Lot or you local Satan.

Ghislain.

In fear of crank walk I just put in a 6 bolt. No walking for me. Not before and now now. Unless of course something else happens. But at least I have a much stronger engine.
And its not just the fact that the 7 bolts have the crank walk issues, but just about everything in the bottem end of a 6 bolt is stronger.
But after reading this I decided to do an end play measurement on my 7 bolt that was still a good running engine when I took it out. And I cant find any play at all. But it is a low mileage engine.

Alright, so with this being said....a 1997 N/T Talon would not walk, because it is a different engine, correct?
Would it make more sence to buy the N/T and just modd it?

Thanks again, James

a stock tsi awd, will be faster stock then youre modded n/t 99% of the time, unless you spend 5000+ dollars on it I would imagine, then you will have non crankwalk issues... like blowing youre 420a to pieces, unless you build the engine up... $$$$
If youre in it for speed off the bat, start with the factory turbo. Otherwise regret it later