Hey guys, I wanted to start a thread on this topic and I wanted to get your feedback, comments etc.

Those of you who know me know I'm a cop. To the ones who don't know me, don't worry, I'm in SUPPORT of racing and modifications. The guys who have met me can vouch for me, I'm cool.

I have begun an initiative to try and allow street racing to continue without being charged. I would like to see a sort of "red light district" for racing where you can go and not be bothered in the GTA.

Building a track at Downsview is not the answer, it has been mentioned but there are too many factors involved. I personally don't think that would help anyway.

I think having "several" designated streets(industrial) in and around the GTA would be more appropriate. During the day it would be business as usual, but at night, racing would be allowed, given the street meets certain criteria.

Anyways, I already have the ball rolling. There is going to be a letter in The Star Wheels section that I wrote. I'm also trying to get into the Sun and maybe a car magazine.

This s*** been going on too long now, I know if you have a modified car your gonna get grilled by the police everywhere you go. I wanna try and change that, it's not right.

Any suggestions or comments, let loose.

I think thats a stupid idea and it will never happen, If anything they`ll build a track in the GTA before useing a public road for drag racing.

It all comes down to liability. Who's gonna pay when some unexperienced kid gets killed, or kills someone else.

This is how I look at street racing:

It's ok when the area, time of day, etc permit.

i.e. backroads in the middle of nowhere, 401 at 3am etc.

I raced an svt mustang in Peterborough in the summer, I knew this guy would smoke me but I wanted to see what his car would do.

We had a totally clear stretch of road until the next lights. We raced, he smoked me, but he was not satisfied with his win. He continued to think we were racing and being cocky, he decides to just nail it to the floor, hits a sewer grate the car goes sideways. He straightened it out luckily for the other motorists. I was thinking to myself what an asshole. It doesn't stop there, he decides to pass the traffic by going into oncoming traffic lanes while going up a hill. I saw him at the next lights and told him how stupid he was, and yah nice car but I got the message the first time.

It's people like this that kill people and IMO I agree on the crack down of street racing. Everyone seems to have to prove they are better than everyone else, and will do whatever it takes to show off.

If your gonna race and know what your doing keep it clean, don't race people that just want to show off, because they are tools.

Personally I will be taking it to the track this summer. I can't afford to get caught racing or even speeding for that matter. I already have to go for an interview to explain why I should keep my liscence, just for a couple of mild speeding tickets. They aren't screwing around anymore, neither are insurance companies.

Building a track in the GTA would probably help reduce street racing. I would rather go to a track than risk my licence for a 10 second thrill. Too many inexperience driver, its more safer in the track.

Racing should be on the track, with all the proper safety equipment .

I hate to be pull over by cops because my car is modified, but I'll even hate it when my parents are driving and almost get killed by street racing.....

The only problem I can see right now (having just read and not put alot of thought into it) is the insurance companies. I don't think they are gonna pay for some kids major mistakes, unless of course they know about this "red light district" and there is some kind of clause that says if you're in an accident in this area you are not covered. Sort of a "race at your own risk" kinda thing.

Other than that I'm all for it! I'd drive up there on the weekends and have a blast I'm sure. We all street race, or have in the past so why not have an area to do it. Now that I am thinking about it, there should be some sort of emergency workers present in the event of an accident, kinda like at the track. Only they would probably have to be volunteers because I doubt they would be paid by there respective departments. Anyhow, I say go for it and keep us posted!

If you're a cop and you write a letter to the newspaper in support of street racing, there will be letters of outrage by the public, and I'm sure some will demand you turn in your badge.

Trying to educate the police that they should not be harassing every owner of a modified car is one thing, but suggesting that there be designated streets for racing is another (and IMHO, a stupid idea). Yes, people are going to street race regardless of what the laws are. Yes, there will be fewer street races if there is a legal way to do it, but no, I don't think your idea will fly.

That's funny. People getting murdered, drug abuse, drunk drivers killing people and getting a slap on the wrist, and the list goes on yet to still see an "outrage". I don't think a letter will cause one.
I don't think he will loose his badge over an opinion. Infact, all he is saying is if people have to race on the street, do it in a designated area instead of publicly near civilians.
Street racing isn't going to be stopped, so why not try to make it safer by a different approach?

Dean, how exactly are you going to make street racing safer? So what happens if there is an accident at the street race? You are going to have an ambulance and fire truck on standby? Common we all know street racing cant be fully stopped, neither can drug use. It can be kept to a minimal level though. If you want to race thats what the track is for.

That's great guys, keep the reply's coming.

I'll clarify a few things,
-about the track in the GTA issue, its been proposed before and quashed, and besides, since when are tracks open at 1am on a Saturday night.

-the reason why I'm trying to get info is because for the past 2-3 years, all I've been hearing are guys bitching and bitching about being pulled over and nailed, constantly having to avoid the cops when they want to go race, just chillin in a parking lot and getting harassed etc, etc.

I thought guys WANTED to be able to run their cars somewhere in the GTA without having to drive to a track and be lucky enough to get a couple of passes in. I KNOW that nothing is safer than racing on a sanctioned track, but yet for some reason the street racing scene has grown by leaps and bounds. Obviously guys are NOT going to the track to race, otherwise York Regional would be out of business.

My point is, its going to happen no matter what is put in place. I do NOT condone racing on public streets and think those who do should suffer the consequences.
All I see right now are the police and enthusiasts at war over modified cars and it isn't getting any better.
Solving a problem head on with force never works, it hasn't yet. Guys are getting ticketed left, right and centre and yet every weekend there are hundreds that turn out.

I was simply looking at other ways to diffuse this issue so guys can drive around with their modified cars and not be nailed every where they go.

If you guys are saying that the present state is ok and that the racing should be kept underground, then cool, I won't get involved any further.

Keep the responses coming, this is good board with mature members and I'll take your suggestions to task.

I don't agree with the cop`s "spot checks" for modified appearing car on the way too the track, Common now there trying too get theses people too the track instead of racing on the streets it dose`nt make sense too use Cayuga as bait. I really disagree with that and see that as one of the big fears too the average "street racer". It seems they`d rather bust a few people with no cats rather then see people die from reckless street racing.

For some reason I was thinking the exact same idea as frank a few weeks ago. I just didn't post it because I knew I would get flammed. So I think its a great idea. But some of the guys have good point. The thing that would concern me the most is the safty issues. Because there is always going to be someone there thinking they are the s*** and do something stupid.

What you need is a few roads like they have down in Houston where the big boys run. There's two, one turned to **** because all the ricers started showing and ruining it by being all cocky and whatnot. Now they're on a different road. The road is long closed, the only thing it's used for is racing, it's better prepared than most tracks most of the time. Cops usually just ignore it.

Yes Shaun, there are some states which actually have roads that are used for races. That was sort of the idea I was thinking of, I don't know how they do it but it's worth a look at.

For the record, I don't mention WHICH police force I work for in my letter, so I'm not representing the police, it's my own opinion and I won't be turning in my badge because I'm not condoning it.
I'm addressing a problem which exists and thinking of possible solutions.

To say "don't street race, take it to the track" is an ignorant statement. It's like saying "don't do drugs" but what has that solved?
Simply reiterating that staement isn't going to solve anything, and come spring the races will be alive and well with everyone bitching about being hassled.

We all know what is going on out there, the question is What will make it better?
A track? maybe, but how about to and from the track.

What are the possible solutions?

Ya I think a track or somewhere to run legally in the GTA would be great, if there was somewhere close by I'm sure it would get rid of alot of the illegal street races. But more then anything I would like to go one summer without getting pulled over for no reason because I drive an import and handed one or more dumb azz tickets for parts on my car that aren't even illegal according to the highway traffic law. Then I have to waste my time by taking a day off work to go fight the tickets in court and have them dropped because like I said before there is nothing illegal on my car according to the highways traffic act (which I make sure of because I know the hassle they give you in the GTA).

Don't eat me out mang. Just summerizing the original post for Dennis. I never agreed to anything.
Put down the glue...

I don't know if there are any solutions. There are two issues here. The first is the issue of cops harassing every modified vehicle out there, assuming they are all punks who street race, steal, are low lifes of society, etc. This is where someone like Frank can help and possibly induce some change. The second issue is that of curbing street racing. This will be difficult to change, and impossible to stop. Even if you built a dragstrip in the heart of the GTA, even if you paid people to come to it, there would still be street racing. You'll never stop that impromptu street race where two cars end up side by side at a red light and decide that the race is on. Stiffer penalties would likely help, but harassing owners of modified cars won't do anything. As for shutting down streets for racing, the liability is too great. Eventually, you'll get some stupid kid who curbs and rolls his car or hits a street light and kills himself. The city, police force, and every Tom, Dick and Harry at the race will be named in a lawsuit.

I could care a less about setting something up for people street racing. IMO it's a non issue, you should not race on the streets period. The tracks are not that far away that we can't go and get out fix. The last time I was at the street races it was a few older guys with nice cars (and I mean a few as in like 3) and about 50 guys who wouldn't street race who were all under 20 and had ricer cars. Why would we bother openeing a street for a whole bunch of 15 and 16 second passes?

What kills me is being pulled over for a shiny muffler or because my car is "modified". Thats the **** that pisses me off really bad.

Even worse are the BS spot checks on the way to the track like Eric mentioned. I have a fix for this however, I found an alternate route to the track that by passes where they always sit.

Yeah I hear ya on that one. The harassment issue would be the most important one here. Whether your simply driving on the street or hanging out on the parking lot, getting harassed and fined is something that has to stop. It seems like at every automotive event, the cops are all out handing out citations left and right along the road. Though complaining about (To The Star or other)has done absolutely nothing (much) so far. Maybe less cops on the roads leading to events but thats it. So if we are to make some kind of impact, it would have to be big and organized. Otherwise it just sounds like the usual wining thats been heard and posted on several publications.

Frank's idea though (contrary to popular belief) is not that far off. As mentioned before, some state(s) in the US had some Police organized races on deserted, closed off street(s).
I mean, I remember somewhere that syringes were freely given to drug addicts in order to stop the spread of HIV by needle sharing.
So why not close off a rarely used (probably a dead-end) street and have racers have at it. It would be a nice place to hang out at night too, to simply sit, 'chill', talk, and watch the races.

It's not such a bad idea. It's just that there's a lot of red tape, and taboo about it, ever since street racing started receiving considerable media attention after F&F (and some street racing documentaries before and after). It might not be as safe as on the track, but still would be less risk involved if other traffic was removed from the equation.

I've only once been to a drag strip and found it quite busy, and un-friendly (to say the least). Though I haven't been to any of these night-time gatherings, I'd think it'd be a better place. The only problem being, is convincing other people about 'our automotive ways' sort to speak. As many others just see their cars as ways of getting from A to B, rather than some fun.

If you are willing to hang out till 4 in the morning to do some street racing; If you are willing to put money and time into a car to make it go faster; If you feel the need for speed and love doing canon ball runs on the 400; Get your ass to the track. It's not to far to drive to. It's not to expensive to get in. Aside from the INDY there is no reason to close off public roads to race.

I can do without the police harrasment, but the import crowd in general does it self no favours by leading the life style it does.

Interesting point trying to compare it to the harm reduction strategy of drug use (ie. Giving out free needles, etc). But you can't really compare the two because of risk and liablity. Give someone a needle or a place to shoot up and for the most part they are just impacting themselves. Street racing easily can impact more than yourself.

Street racing, even in a closed off area, is just too risky due to the speeds, range of ability, and non-standardized envirionment. Even if the participants assumed the risk, if someone gets killed or seriously injured there'd be some serious hell to pay. I'm referring to scenarios such as if a spectator was killed, if one of the drivers accidently or intentionally tries to run the other off the track, if a driver was drunk, etc. Your insurance obviously won't cover any of this. There's assumed risk but I can't see how you easily resolve issues where one goes outside generally understood boundaries (which may be clear to one person but not the other).

It only takes one bad incident out of ten thousand, usually by a complete idiot, that messes a good thing up.

A lot of good points made.

I see the main issue is harassment, and I make a point of it in my letter. The attitude has to change but it won't be easy. For every guy like me who's into the modified scene, there's 50 cops who hate it.

I still think it may be a little easier to change this perception as opposed to the street racing issue.
I don't think there is any answer to that.

I suggested the idea of closed off roads as a reaction to the present situation, where everyone is running from the cops to go race and if you get caught you'll have hell to pay.
Remember, you can be arrested for racing.

There are so many factors involved in allowing it to happen on the street, but I just can't see it getting any better any other way.

And please guys, stop saying take it to the track.
Nobody is listening, you can say that till your blue in the face, come back to reality and take a look at Woodbridge in the summer.

So what I've gotten from all of this is there is definately a need to change the attitude when it comes to modified vehicles.
I think I'll tackle this issue first, seeing that the racing issue has too many pros and cons.

I will try and do what I can to represent the tuner crowd and show that we are not a bunch of reckless menaces on the street.
I will need a lot of support and hopefully things will change.

I'm not exactly sure what route to take but I think the media is a good place to start.
I'll take any help or suggestions I can get.

Thanks

Street racing is great, the only people who think it isn't are slow pussies who build fast cars only to drive them like a sissy. No but seriously, after the Cayuga incident with the cops ralling about taking it to the track then blocking off both entraces and busting cars. That was pretty much the last straw about going to the track for anything. I think Frank's idea is absoultly great. If we had a redlight district dedicated just for racing it would be best thing yet. Provided there was no police involvment or regulation. We don't want another Cayuga. That being said, racing is a risk, but then again so is driving in general. Point is, you don't like street racing, stay the **** out of the way.

Guy what crack are you smoking? First off I have been racing for the last three and ahalf years.

I used to do time trial runs up and down the hamilton escarpment ,and whomever had the best time would take the cash home. I used to run a lightly modified 1978 bmw 320i . I loved that car and it's power curve ,and if it wasnt for some retarded cop flying up the mountain "responding to a call that their was STREET RACING ON THE MOUNTIAN" I would probably still be driving it. Turns out I swerved out of the way only to nail a bolder and whipe out my entire shaft /cv's,, everything.

If not for my buddies that night I would have beat the cop senseless with his own stick.
In my opinion their are way to many cops out their power tripping with their little black traffic act book.

I was not charged that night because witnesses say that he was driving recklessly up the mountain ,he could have killed me if not for his lights.

Now I drive a very modified talon wich I love to death ,and only race at the track .

The reason being is because after investing say 18 grand into it for the sole reason of being faster ,I dont treat racing very lightly. Paythe fifty to a hundred and race against guys/girls with the same mentality as you do.

I say make downsview into the red light district not only for 1/4 mile but also autocross.

If a cop whom has taken evasive driving can almost kill me ,then why the hell would i want my car let alone my life around some 18y'r old kid whom thinks his cheaply modded civic or stang can outdo anyone. Think about the unbeatable civic from last year.... in my eyes he's a tool whom only raced slow cars but couldnt back his **** up at the track.

Say what you want and do what you will but I personally take racing a bit more seriously now and wouldnt go anywhere but a track.


P.s im sorry I just dislike cops,not because I grew up in a rough neighbourhood and we got shook down everytime my boys and I were spotted.But because I dont like their attitudes .
I hate jerks whome think because they have a badge they can harass me whenever they see/hear my bov.

Downsview is perfect ,not some old street nobody wants. Honestly if you dont take racing seriously then dont modd out you'r car to the point ppl are posting about carbon this and that ,port this and raise that.

Im sorry if I rubbed a few ppl the wrong way, I just this hate with a passion for those spot cheques.

My car is street legal in every form for the street and to race ,but honestly things will change when poloticians and cops change their views on us , the mid twenty to mid thirty crowd whome had nothing for love of their car ,not these stupid kids .

In the end it wont work.

Thats a pretty retarded statement. Chances are you have a slow car which is why you street race. Most guys with really fast cars don't street race because it's dangerious or were old enough to know that unless your 25 or under there is not much point to showing up cause I'm an old man now at 28.

I do light to light and the odd highway race but you will never catch my ass at an organized street race in Markham/Scarborough area like happenes every weekend. I helped start that **** when imports were running 15s at best 12-15 years ago. Instead of just getting run off by the cops were getting arrested and cars impounded now. Thats not worth risking my car thats got a lot invested into it.

I don't know why you even say that. The number of cars showing up at the track are in record ammounts last year. We had two import racing organizations whith both posting lots of people showing up. Quebec has a huge racing organization now with lots of participants there as well. The fact is a lot of people ARE taking it to the track and not street racing anymore.

All the homo's that hang out in woodbridge in the parking lot near Tim Hortons behind Colossus are ricer kids who either can't afford to drive to the track or don't have their parrents permission. I have been there more than a few times and most of them would never go because they are to l33t to goto the track. There are a few fast nice cars there but generally I have seen them somewhere before.. Hmmm. maybe the track?

Fact of the matter is people are listening and takeing it to the track, the proof is in the pudding. Were you at the night races this year by CSCS at Cayuga? The crowd was huge, tones of cars entered and the turn out was awesome. More than I have seen at a street race ever.

I really have to agree with Jim. To spread ignorant posts like take a look at woodbridge is just foolish.

I was their when tatu raced both of the "feared" nos fed stangs and one I was their when drago backed down from a race ,but in the end all those racers admit the track is the place where their is no bull**** ,or excuses ,just a time slip and some bruised ego's.

Maybe the new moddo shouldnt be take it to the track but instead it should be go wrap you'r self around a pole.

Just some food for thought ,p.s I dont condone what cops do at the track's but then again I baught a three inch cat off of ziggy just for those occasions.

I'm working on possibly having a meeting to discuss some issues.
I'm looking at having it at a division, maybe 12 division where there's parking and space available.

I'll keep you guys posted.

See this is the problem. You get these near middle aged moron car "enthousiasts" saftey guy ex-ricer types who come in here start talking about something they are completely obvlivious to. There are people here older then you, showing up with 9s door slammers, racing for more cash then you make for a monthly income. You think they give two ****s about your "well in Woodbridge... rice this... stupid kid that... track is safe... my 12s pos investment only runs on the track" bull****. Why is it everytime street racing comes up all the stupid ass hats bring up all the stupid kids. Its good Frank is trying but in reality, anyone who does it, will keep doing it. The only thing I suggest is for cops to go pre-occupy there time elsewhere. Stop haslling kiddies for coffee cans and start busting real criminals like prostitues and drug dealers. Spending more time with the community, lowering the crime rate and rehabilitating actual criminals. Tax dollars and police time would be better spent on social programs and education/awareness for our juveniles. I think its better having a kid show up at Tim Hortons; have an Iced Cap while smack talking and casuing drama, instead of going out having a doobie and kicking back some malts. It isn't like the old days, but real street racing does exsist, just harder to find it nowadays. People want to race, they go up to abondond road, go race. If **** hits the fan, thats life, risks are risks. You total your car at the track you aren't getting **** from insurance either. So your investment excuse disappears. Rollcages and harness' aren't track only, neither are fire extinguishers or kill switches. But I'm sure you have those right?

That being said I had a sub-9s street bike, so don't preach to me old guy.

I'm 19 and i don't like street racing what at all, ever since i`ve been introduced too the track i hav`nt thought twice about going out on a Saturday nite for a "street race". Johnny i think your livin it up in the fast and the furious world and i don't believe there are "9s" street racers cars out there, around here anyways and if there were i feel they are completely out if their mind and its and extremely dangerous.

18k to race against pylons in mall parking lots.

Eric, i think the street racing Jonny is referring to is not against hondas or POS ricers. Go checkout some of the vids with real cars. 500hp+ V8's.

Edit: typo

I would`nt define a 12 car a "pos ricer"
but anyhow, back too topic
I know there are really powerful cars street racing, these cars need too be in a controlled environment what happens too the people standing on the sides when the rear end swings out and looses control?

Eric, wtf are you talking about? Rear end loosing control and swinging into people?

Well u see pete when u put "500hp" too a rwd muscle car you encounter traction issues. So what i`m saying is this could be quite dangerous if spectators were standing along the sides of the street watching, especially on with street tires, At the track there are walls on sides of the strip protecting spectators in the event that the car dose looses control.

Eric, so where do the spectators stand in a street race? Laying underneath the rear? And with DOT Drag Radials, those cars get traction quick.

Shutup and go away.

You guy are both immature,ignorant,idiots, Why do u think they invented roll cages?hmmmmmmmmmm maybe because its possible that a car doin quicker then 11.49 can loose control and spin outta control and roll? i`m here giving my thoughts like everyone elese is.

Actually, you need a rollcage for any kind of road racing, any SCCA class spec. event requires one. Its for your own saftey. If it was up to me, all cars(in general) should be fitted with an extinguisher and med kit like in europe. Any race cars should be fitted with cages and a better restraint system. You can roll any car, you can crash any car. If your stupid ass can't control it, you don't belong behind the wheel. That being said, I would rather toss my car into the feild then hit a wall. Many organized events do not have much spectators, and if they do, they stand in the back. I am not sure who you are calling ignorant either, and I qoute "the car dose looses control." Maybe the next mod you buy should be a clue and maybe some spelling/grammer lessons so you can have an educated conversation.

I'm gunna have to go with Eric on this one. Jonny and Pete, it seems as though you guys get your testosterone boiling to the point where you deem it necessary to go over and beyond in weighing in on the afforementioned topic. Eric has made valid points and all I have heard from you two clowns is "shut up" and "I've had a 9sec car" -neither of which is contstructive. If you have something constructive to say, such as "I dont think your point is valid BECAUSE ...(fill in incoherent ramblings here)" then do so but dont flame the guy for speaking his mind. Some additional food for thought; Assuming that Eric being 19 implies that he doesn't understand what goes on in a street race is naive and just wrong, you dont even know the guy for christ sakes. If you really have owned a 500hp RWD STREET car with STREET tires, you'd know that traction is certainly an issue no matter how skilled you think you are. Anyhow, I personally know the guy and my guess is that he is just as well-versed as you two are with street races, so lets cut the personal attacks and the "you know nothing" mentality and focus on the issue at hand. What ever happened to the days when people were civil and took what people said in stride - why resort to stabs?

Let's all put are ego's aside and grow up here.