I am ordering in an HID conversion kit for a board member....He provided me with all the info, but still it took a bit to track these down. They are made by "Acumen". The first reference to these I found was a guy in Mississauga selling the kit for $750. After considerable searching and research, turns out I can sell the kit for about $450. The board member in question suggested I offer them to you guys, see if there is any interest. These will fit the 2g, I have no idea if they will work on the 1g or not?

If there is interest, how about a group buy at $400/kit based on getting at least 5?

Post here with your thoughts, or email me:
rtm_racing@cogeco.ca

I know that JRP used to carry them, and the set I have in my car is Acumen, and they went in perfectly.
(ie: the conversion kit came with everything, and plugged right into the stock harness)

I've had no problems with them.

1G's could pull out their glove-box manual and check, but I think all the DSMs from 1990-1999 have 9006 bulbs... no?

I hate sounding negative and Ziggy you know its nothing against you. Lighting is a subject I'm pretty "sensitive" about.

The only issue is these conversion kits are not designed for halogen housings for anyone thinking of one of these kits please read something like this before you buy...


http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

Great call Tim. Daniel Stern has written a bible on this subject and is absolutely correct.

I hope anyone considering "upgrading" to anything other than a factory bulb takes a careful read through those pages.

Paul

Very interesting... I hadn't read any of that before.

Two things he picks on, that I suppose fall in favour of a 2G implementation:
1. Factory filament is longitudinal, the same as the HID, almost identical length and position too.
2. No high beam filament in a 9006... it's a separate bulb.

But, yes, by all means, read first, and get to know it. I actually had mine, for about a year before the car got put back together, so I did get to play a bit. (hell, I was bored, I must have hooked them to the battery charger, 3 or 4 times!)
I had them on the bnech, in the lens, both as HID and as regular (Bosch) halogens, and, at least in the 1997 Talon case, the projected pattern was almost identical.

My crime at this point, is I still haven't taken the time to aim them properly, and I know the left one is a bit out.

I'll reply again, once I do. I have the shop manual, and it's got the exact procedure, distance, pattern, and even has the measurements for the tiny marker in the middle of the beam, that you're supossed to adjust to.

Still, very interesting...

I will say, from the perspective of a guy who lives in the booneys, and drives the other vehicles a lot of time at night, with the highbeams on... I don't need the highs in the DSM, and really, can see further.

Maybe they are a good match for a DSM, when not many others? No idea. Still, that Daniel guy, seems to know what he's talking about.

I've got them in my 2Gs in projector housings off of eBay. Work great, don't blind people really, no issues for me... The guy says a lot of relevant things, but in my experience all the legal cars I've seen with HIDs still blind the heck out of me, even though they're "factory".

Andrew, FWIW, there's always the 1:100 possibility that everything falls in line and some HID kits work perfectly in the Talon reflector.

But, moving the filament hotspot (not necessarily the same as the glass itself) by so much as a 32nd, could easily throw light 50 feet in the wrong direction at 100 feet from the car. Coupled to that the totally different hotspot spread between a filament and arc, it's a mess to try and mix them.

The reflectors are extremely sensitive (as are some projector assemblies) to slight changes. And it would be impossible to really eyeball it's position inside that reflector that closely. You can confirm it by pulling the bulb back out of the assembly slightly while watching the beam spread.

Could be fine, but, only by luck Set yourself up an aiming grid on a wall, follow the instructions, and see what your beam spread looks like. If it's good, relax. Might borrow another DSM with a good set of bulbs to compare back to back. Could be enlightening (groan)...

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/aim/aim.html

And don't get me started on the sub-par crap that passes for e-bay projectors for the DSM's. Most can't even be aimed...

Paul

Turned them on again last night in the garage, and yeah, DSMs must be the 1 in a hundred, that the kit works great in.

And, Mark PPG confirmed that his work well, and Ian (who used to have a GVR-4, and put them in his Audi S4) was very pleased with the result...

So... given yet another physical comparison I've now given them, compared to the Bosch halogen I had in the drawer, well, they're not out at all, not even 1/32".

YMMV.

I didn't mean to open a can of worms or start any kind of argument here, just trying to make some sales, and help out anyone who might be looking to buy this item

I think you guys all know I am no expert on this stuff, and you need to do your own research into what to buy...but if you DO want to buy them, I think it is a very good price..

I mean, if you want to be technical, I also shouldn't sell test pipes, or upgraded exhausts, and probably shouldn't even sell boost controllers, etc. Half of what I sell says "for offroad use only" LOL

Like I said, the best price I found for this kit anywhere else was $750., and they DO sell them...so not sure how bad they can be??

I modified a pair of D2S bulbs to fit the 9006 socket. I was careful to set the source at the correct spot. The beam pattern is the same, just brighter and whiter.

Ziggy, so these are just the bulb upgrade? If so Im with Tim, if you want HID's do it the proper way. HID weren't ment to work with a halogen reflectors or even halogen projectors. Get the proper HID projector that produces the correct cut off line. HID lights in halogen housings are blinding to other drivers and illegal to install. HID's produce a much brighter light & a halogen housing will not produce a crisp cut off line even when aimed properly. A proper HID projector has almost a perfectly straight cut off point where all the light is focused below, which prevents the blinding of on comming traffic.

Personally I find it really annoying now that the HID bulb kits are cheep & everyones getting them & not installing them properly. Its basically like driving with your highbeams on all the time & can very easily cause an accident. Not to mention they sell the kits with extremely high K ratings (a real HID system produces white light), to try & copy the different colours a proper HID projector will produce as it refracts light which just adds to the problem.

I am not sure what is in the kit, but it is more than jut the bulbs, as the bulbs are around $80. each, and the kit is considerably more than two bulbs. I will be picking up the first one for my existing customer soon, and will know a lot more then...

By bulb kit, I don't mean just the physical bulb as they normally come with a wiring harness and a ballest for each light. I was refering to do they include a proper HID projector as well.

Ok, sorry.....as I keep saying, I am not that knowledgeable on this stuff. I don't believe they include a housing, as apparently the same kit fits several different vehicles. I believe this will be just the ballasts and harnesses. I know there are some HID kits out there for well over $1,000USD...those are more likely to be the ones that would include a housing..

While boost controllers, test pipes, etc are illegal & you say, well I sell them, you have to remember they don't have a direct effect on other drivers. Here are a couple examples of why you shouldn't installing a HID bulb kit in a headlight that was designed for a halogen lamp. First 2 show a HID kit installed in a halogen housing, the next 2 are what a proper HID system looks like with the proper cutoff to prevent blinding of oncoming traffic. If you want to install HID's, make sure to purchase a HID projector to retrofit your headlamp.

Daren,

Thanks for posting that, very enlightening!

From what I've seen of the "bulb kits" in DSMs, they don't look nearly as bad as those first two pictures you posted. Are those DSM pics or just random examples of bad lighting?

Can you explain what this is in more detail? And is it available for DSMs? Perhaps it could be combined with Ziggy's product?

The retrofit is to grab a projector housing (and the accompanying bulb and ballast from the doner car), cut apart your reflector housing and install the projectors instead.

As a matched pair, they perform perfectly. Not always all that difficult to grab one from the bone yard, plenty of yards will sell them under a couple hundred bucks. The key is to find an HID equipped car, with a broken headlight bucket, but not the projector inside. You can often take these for a steal.

http://spiicytuna.com/DSM/projector/

One of ten million examples

Paul

Would it be possible and easier to go to a scrapyard and grab yourself a projector housing, fit it into our headlight housing and then buy one of Ziggy's kits to install?
rather than getting the ballast/bulb and doing the rewire in your example?

I like to do things myself but electrical wiring isn't my forte.

I would like to upgrade my headlights w/o blinding people because I can't see anything in the dark. My foglights are even brighter than my headlights.

A retrofit is not for those without fairly robust fabrication skills, or those who don't have a very good grounding with wiring. In short, if you have to ask, it shouldn't be tackled by yourself.

Ziggy's kit would be plug and play by comparison.

We've probably taken this on a far enough tangent to warrant splitting it up. Regardless of my feelings, this isn't the place to express them.

Sorry Zig.

Paul

Yes Thomas you can get the HID "kit" off Ziggy then find some OEM HID projectors from an Audi, BMM, etc (you can find these from a wreckers or there are several HID speciality stores online that can save you the hassle). Jeff retrofitting the HID projector is just like Paul posted, some install the HID projector in the stock headlight which IMO looks kinda funny because its just sorta sitting out in the middle of nowhere. Other buy the projector headlights such as the ones off ebay and replace the halogen projector they come with, to a proper HID projector. Im not sure what vehicles those sample pics I posted are of, but I believe the top was a dsm. Either way any halogen housing will give you the same effect, though some may not be as bad but still defently not safe to other drivers. I have heard many say that when they installed the bulbs without projectors in their dsm, they would get flashed all the time from on coming drivers.

Back a couple months ago I was just going to get one of these kits as I had limited knowledge on HID system, like most. I started to do some research just to figure out what K (kelvin, scale use to specify light colour) I wanted, as these kits come in different K values & I thought the different manufacturers used different bulbs (as Audi's looked blue, BMW more purple etc). It was then that I found out alot of info & why this isn't a good idea. Std halogen bulbs are around 3000 K (yellowish), proper HID's are usually around 4300K (daylight), then you can get aftermarket 6000K (more blue) 8000K (blue/purple) 10000K (purple), 12000K (darker purple) etc.

Real HID systems use a daylight (~4300K) colour spectrum & it the refraction of the projector that give off the different colours of light at the edges (while still keeping the light white), ever notice how the colour on these system can be very deep when the on coming vehicle hits a bump. This K range produces the most light but because of the design of the projector, has a very sharp cut off to prevent blinding of other drivers. The aftermarket wanted to copy this type of light refraction, so to do it they produced bulbs with different K ratings. As the K ratings go up you get more colour in the light but you also get less light output. It is also hard on the eye's if you are driving with these higher K values bulbs.

Edit: www.hidplanet.com is one of the online stores that offers HID projectors.

-LOL-


All I can add, is, that:
1. My headlights, with the Acumen kit, 1997 TSi AWD, do NOT look like picture 1 or 2.
2. My stock bulbs, and Bosch halogens, NEVER looked like picture 3 or 4, so that is not a DSM, methinks.

The only time I have ever seen that clear a definition, was in my old Jeep headlamps (Ziggy's son can testify), which had Bosch lenses, and bosch Halogen bulbs. (at $23 a piece)
And, even then, not over the distance shown in picture #3.

In front of the garage door, I have never been as well defined as #3 or #4, but with the HIDs, it's no worse than it was.

You judge;

Sorry I can't pull it out in front of the garage, the WG is apart... but that's one headlight, shining onto a board. The shape of the projection, is consistent with what the stock pattern looked like.

I am NOT saying you need to buy them, hell no, I just happen to enjoy mine, and they happen to be the same brand. YMMV.

You know it's a busy night in DSM land when this represents the most exciting thing I did on a friday night.

Below, factory origional pattern to compare yours against.

Edit: Looking at it twice, the door really screws up that pattern, it's much flatter than it looks in the photo. But it does emphasise the total lack of glare, and very even spread.

Is that both lamps? Or just one?
That is cleaner than I remember... what type of bulbs are you using?

Side by side, I see more side lighting, than your picture, with the HIDs... but it's hard to say with two different backgrounds and two different cameras too.
The wood I shot against, isn't as nice as a plain white wall or sheet might have been -- but I had neither.

But, factory, is certainly NOT like picture 3 or 4 above, that's for sure. (my first disappointment when I bought the car)

Single, passenger side. There is no doubt your throwing around more side light, the factory setup throws most of it's light directly out front. Fine for the highway and city, not so great if your out in the country for sure and watching for deer

As they're the same reflector, if the HID was indeed the same size/placement/orientation the pattern would be absolutely identical.

These are just what came with the vehicle, I belive they're Sylvania's.

It's absolutely not picture 3 or 4, those are both proper projector focused HID's I just wanted to give you an easy to compare frame of refrence from stock.

Paul

Well, if nothing else, I guess I have provided an evenings entertainment

Apparently JRP USED to sell these, and for a fair bit more money.....not sure if that makes any difference....but I will have access to them if anyone is interested in buying them, and am planning on adding them to my webstore as well...

Andrew, if you were refering to the 4 pics I posted & your stock setup not looking like the 3rd or 4th pick, it wasn't supposed to Those pics are all off HID bulbs, the first two is what happens when you install a HID buld in a headlight that was designed for a halogen bulb (some wost case examples ). The 3rd & 4th picks are what a proper HID system will look like. If you buy the HID bulb kits (or a OEM HID package)and install them in a proper HID projector you will get results like pic 3 & 4, which is what you want. Its this very abrupt cutoff of light that prevents the proper HID system from blinding on coming traffic, since the HID bulb produces alot more light compared to halogen.

While it looks like the housing in our cars aren't as bad as some they are still not a direct cutoff like a proper HID system. You may think, well its basically the same light pattern as the stock halogen light so its okay but you have to remember how much brighter the HID bulb is. You can see how your HID bulb is producing alot more light compared to pauls pick of a halogen bulb & it is also much wider spread, almost like running with your high beams on all the time. While you being the driver are very happy with your light output, other drivers may not think the same

There is a really good DIY article on dsmtuners on using the ebay projects, and retrofitting the HID projectors from another car.. the end result looked amazing, both the retrofit looked like factory, and the light pattern was awesome.

and using the Ebay projector housings (not the actual projector part) for the retrofit looks like it makes life easier...

...all things being equal, I hope no one is offended, if I say "I like them", and refuse to remove my HIDs.

I have run these "Plug n Play HID's" in my 2G for a few years now and while there not as good as a real HID Setup, there alot better than stock.

Don't think I've ever had to use my high beams for the last 2 years.

Last thought, since I did just come home in the dark, in the Durango, and pulled up to the garage, and then turned the normal headlights, on and off a few times.

The "glare" that some pointed to in my HID picture above, is, quite literally, 10 times worse, on the stock Durango lights.

So, methinks that maybe what we are calling glare, in my case, is likely better referred to as what -- lens washout? Or plastic front cover attributable light refraction?

Just for interest...

...and PS: we've really taken this thread a bit away from Ziggy's initial post about offering them for sale, so while I know in this case he doesn't mind so much as it's a good exploration of the knowledge out there, and how well they work, or don't work, for a DSM, let's just remember which section we're in, and whose post it is.



(mostly in reference to the guy who said; "I got something like 'em them cheaper from X, PM me".... one because that's not allowed in this section, and two, because THOSE are probably the ones that people should be worried about)

Well ziggys kit would work great still,. all you would need is HID projectors from another car

here is the tech article using ebay projector lights, and retrofitting some HIDs
http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162142

Theres also another tuturoail for it floating around their forums

Followup... since this thread inspired me to spend some money.

Dad has always bitched, since he got his BMW with the HIDs, that the Grand Cherokee lights, just plain suck.

So, I bought him a set for Christmas.

We didn't have a camera for "before and after", but the refraction, glare, or washout, was actually nicer than the DSM lamps.
And, more importantly, was NO different, before to after.
In other words, the pattern on the garage door, was exactly the same afterwards.

Our only real problem, was dealing with how Chrysler now does daytime running lights... they use the main lamps, lower the voltage by pulsing the 12v... so the HID system didn't care for that, and we had to add a relay.

----

So, given the success of that, and the pretty new headlamps in the wife's new Mitsubishi Outlander.... that was yesterday's project.

Here is the result:

I should have taken one further back from the door (that was only about 8 ft), but as you can see, they're beautiful. This thing arrived, ready for HID, and has BMW reminisscent lenses in the assembly. (but I was cold enough already)

That looks sweet Andy.

I was actually reading on one of the HID planet forums that the new cherokees actually come eqquiped for an HID set up. I guess by that they mean the headlight projector housings.

Needless to say, it's nice when you can just add an HID pnp kit without having to hack the exiating housings with aftermarker projectors and what not.

I just wish all these car manufacturers would add HID as a standard on all their vehicles as this is sort of a safety feature if you will.

Yeah, Dad's Cherokee is the year just before the new model, where they started offering them.