Have to disagree with you there, Ryan. Going 50 over anywhere at any time is NOT necessarily wreckless and dangerous, depending on the driver.

If you think that, then sell your DSM and buy a Yaris.

In public? Doing 50 over in a DSM or a Yaris, it doesn't matter.

You are putting lives at risk. Overconfidence is what can get you or others killed.

Think about it. New Brunswick's major highways are 110. You are doing 165 and someone pulls out without looking. You can stop a lot sooner doing 110-120 than you can doing 160-170.

It is also easier to lose control at high speeds. A blown tire will really ruin your day when you're doing 160.

Ryan, I was recently on the Autobahn again. It is NOT speed that is dangerous, but stupidity! You have to drive according to the conditions. Over there, you have some people doing 90, others doing 240 and up....tell me about how fast things happen. You have to drive accordingly..pay attention, and be prepared. Over there, you DON'T find people on the autobahn talking on cell phones, shaving, eating breakfast, applying makeup, or reading the newspaper or a map...all of which I have seen on the highways here. If a road is full of potholes, yes, reduce your speed. But there is NO reason (other than our laws) that you shouldn't be able to drive 160 on the QEW between Niagara and toronto (I often do 150 on my SCOOTER), or on the 401. I still think a 130 speed limit, with enforcement kicking in at 140 would actually IMPROVE our traffic situation, because there would be LESS cars on the road at any given point in time, as some would already have arrived.

Sometimes, I actually drive fast not because of the thrill, but because I am in a hurry to get somewhere, or running late. Even then, though, I drive "carefully". Only at fault accident I have ever had was a little fender bender in an intersection where we were turning left, I was distracted for mere seconds, and the guy in front of me stopped for an unknown reason in the middle of the intersection, and I bumped into him. This in almost 40 years of driving....I am proud of my record and consider myself an excellent judge of what is safe and what is not. I do agree 50 over the limit is a lot, but the problem is still that the "limit" is too low. Raise the limit to a reasonable level (130?), THEN enforce it!!

That, I agree with Ziggy.

Up the limit, so everyone is moving at the same pace. But when you're doing 160, and everyone's doing 110, you close up the gap pretty quick!

Like I said, Ryan, try doing 220 when others are doing 90. You would be AMAZED how fast you come on them. And with no speed limits, even though I generally did 140 - 160, it was AMAZING how fast a few other cars would come up on me.

The real problem...you said yourself "someone pulls out without looking".....

We need MUCH stricter licensing. Someone who pulls out without looking does NOT belong on the roads, even at 90 kph!!

Ryan,



Anymore?? Sounds like you're starting to buy into the political rhetoric on this one. There have always been laws against speeding, especially excessive speeding.

I don't think anyone is arguing that you shouldn't be punished if caught doing 50+ KM/H over the limit. I'd even say that I think the increase in fines was a good idea.

But do you not have a problem with the introduction of a new law where they can sieze your car without ever having to present any evidence? Does it not bother you that they're all of a sudden cracking down on this now that the fines have been increased?

No, I don't agree with HOW they are going about it, but I do agree that they ARE doing it.

Then again, you do the crime, you do the time.

I think it's just gotten to the point with the government that they are fed up. Instead of "Oh... you were speeding, here's a big ass fine, a court date, and some points on your license. If they were your last points, you lose it for a bit... then you get it back..."

No! Now it's "You want to speed like that? You are putting others in danger, so we are going to remove the problem. Take the car, give you a steep ass fine, and make you regret you had the gas pedal down that far."

Effective? I think so.

Because now, who's going to do 50 over? After a few hundred people getting charged? I'll tell you, I'll keep a feather foot on the gas.

Me too but some people don't get it a dude in his teg was challenging me on my way to school today at around 6am, he revved the sh!t out of his teg at the stop light and took off but I ignored him It would have been nice to see him getting pulled over by a cop. Some people don't get it and the numbers will keep getting higher.

Exactly. And that's why the government is doing this. Until people DO get it, the numbers will climb and you won't see things let up.

What happened to the car crushing idea was that lowered to this 50+km/h thing we have know.

I drove in to work this morning, with a friend, and he had a really funny suggestion. To cut to the chase, we discussed lining up Talons at London, and driving to Toronto at 100.0 km/h Cruise controlled, shoulder-to-shoulder, at 5pm on a Friday. Just back up traffic until it was hell for everyone.

Seems more and more, the police are having their cake and eating it too. The 401 is marked 100 km/h, which it's definitely not. Even trucks pull 110. So you get ticketed for doing 100, but the 120 is, actually, breaking the speed limit. And 150 is take your car away and give you a fine to break the bank.

So we had a huge laugh at the idea of 4-wide Talon runs, 2 or 3 cars deep, running side by side at 100 and just proving that the whole thing is B.S.




Later on, we realized that a whole Toronto run would get our cars keyed if they were ever seen near one of the 10,000 people we screwed, so we decided it'd be funnier to do it in rentals. Mark them with decals that say "Former Street Racer Who Will Never Do Over the Speed Limit Again"

Great Idea, Love it! I would drive one!!

Police have WAY too much power, and this step is very near the final in the conversion from democracy to police state. We are removing the "innocent until proven guilty"....and that makes us about the same as communist East Germany before the wall came down... I can't believe ANYONE would support this!

.. been done...

Pretty funny results, actually.. looks like the road was closed for a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B-Ox0ZmVIU

Well that has already been a fact for drunk driving, as they place an "administrative suspension" on your licence immediately.
What is it, three months?
They are just taking the same approach to excessive speeding, under the assumption that the offender would do it again the next day and every day up until the court does something about it (and we all know how long that would take).

I would support it if there were better evidence.
Such as, for drunk driving, where they record video of the BAC testing. Guilt is hardly left to question, so the administrative suspension is appropriate.

It just grinds my gears that it could all come down to whether or not the officer got steak and a BJ the night before.

Why do we need courts, then? The cops can pass the judgements right at the roadside...

Think of the tax dollars we could save....

Ryan, i think you are coming off as a guy who acts all high and mighty with your soapbox here and then does 50+ on the drive home from work today

i completely disagree with everything you mentioned a few posts above.

if you like to have all your civil rights stripped away from you, great, go live in Cuba. one of the benefits to living in Canada is our freedoms and rights, all of which are slowing being taken away or diminished.

so far, i've agreed with 100% of what Ziggy has stated. i believe Ryan is completely missing the point on this one.

Whoa.

If you knew me, you would know that I am against street racing, and acting stupid behind a wheel.

Driving is a priviledge, not a right. And if you abuse a priviledge, damn straight you should suffer the consequences.

I am not against going fast. Going fast is fine. But when there are many variables that can affect the outcome, it becomes dangerous. If the 401 was changed to be a speed limit of 120, great! Everyone would be moving at that pace, and there would be fewer accidents.

And FYI, I'll do 10-15 over, MAX. And on that note, I have a clean record, and never been in an accident.

However, as you mentioned, freedoms and rights... you have the freedom of speech and right to express your opinion.

Just let your opinion be informed, that's all.

I don't act all high and mighty, I just don't see the harm in this law, as it's doing more good than bad.

You wouldn't turn the other cheek if someone doing 100 in a 40 zone took your kid out on his/her way to school now would you?

Is speeding ok? No, but it has become socially acceptable.

Is excessive speeding ok? No, and they are trying to make it as socially unacceptable as drunk driving.

Do I agree with the law? Yes. Do I agree with how they are going about it? Somewhat. Do I agree with the fact that everything it stands for goes against the CCRF? No. I feel that it WILL make the roads safer and as long as you don't do 50 over, you're fine.

Not to mention, 50 over in a 50 zone is double the speed limit, giving you 7 points and a hefty fine. They are just upping the anty.

like i said, be cause i don't know you, i won't make any judgements, all i was saying as that i was interpreting your opinion as such based on the way you expressed it

i don't care about the new law at all, it won't affect me, i don't do anything that would warrant this new ticket anyways but i have a HUGE HUGE problem with the increased authority those donut eating bastards have.

Hey, I fell you on that one Grant.

Ok, so look at it this way.

How many of you have gotten a speeding ticket before?

Cop pulls you over.. "You were speeding, got you on radar, yada yada.. here's your fine."

You drive away. To speed another day.

With this law, they take your car, so you can't get back in and speed some more. Kind of like Minority Report, however you were found going 50 over, and they are just preventing you from doing it again.

Touch a hot stove once, you get burned. Do it again, you're an idiot.

Same thing.

It will make you think twice about doing 160 on the 401 when MOST (not all) are doing between 120-130 area.

Upping the speed limit to 130 will make 50 over doing 180.

Have you ever tried to get a Yaris or a freaking Aveo up to 100+ on an onramp? In heavy traffic? My girlfriend has an Aveo, it's hard.

Try getting it up to 150 if the speed limit was 130.

I am not backing up the cops, I am just saying that for a person like myself who will only do what most of traffic is doing (around 110-120), I would feel safer if I have to pass someone and nobody's flying up behind me doing 160.

point perfectly taken, Ryan

and personally, i feel most safe when i have the RIGHT to defend my actions in a court of law - NOT based on Joey Blue Suit's current mood on that day.

you see for yourself, fines range from 2000-5000 but based on WHAT criteria?!

the new rule is fine, the way they are implementing is is bogus.

Yeah... 2000 dollar fine is a little outrageous. Oh wait... "NO OFFICER I WASN'T SPEEDING" ---> $5000 fine.

I think the fact that your license will be suspended and car taken away is rough enough. Tack on a $500-$750 fine... sure.

2 Grand? That's a whole FP 3065, Manifold AND Wastegate setup.

Before taxes and shipping that is

Ryan:

your reference to minority report is frighteningly accurate. They SAY you have been caught once...but how about if his radar gun was wacky? Or he clocked the wrong car? Or .....
That is what your day in court is for. Perhaps you should ask Steven Truscott about this one...



I am suggesting that if the speed limit were 130, it should be ENFORCED, starting around 138-140. And 180 is not THAT horrible if traffick permits. There are very few cars on the road that won't do 180. You REALLY need to visit Germany . And enforcement is FINE...just not "side of the road judgements".
How would you feel if all those BS muffler tickets and that crap you were not allowed to fight them in court. If they were to say "the cop issued you a ticket, therefore you are guilty, there is no contesting it?" THIS is the problem. This is where we are heading!! Start with drunk driving and 50 over, but the precedent will be set...and one day you will get a ticket from a cop even though you did NOTHING wrong....maybe he didn't like the way you looked at his girlfiend..and you won't even be allowed to fight it. Welcome to the NEW Ontario!!



There are little 1 litre cars and the smart 1.3 diesel that manage it just fine..



Then the solution is VERY simple. Make sure there is no-one in the passing lane for a LONG ways back, pass quickly, and move back over to the right. If that STILL makes you uncomfortable, then drive like a Canadian....get in one lane and just follow the flow....just make sure it isn't the PASSING lane..

Ziggy.. DAMN...

PWNED!

I see what you're saying.

And an Aveo is very hard to get up to 150 quickly.

Last week traffic was moving at 145 eastbound from mccowan to meadowvale. Not just a few cars, most of them.

I have NO problem getting up to speed and into traffic in ANY situtation with my Echo. Wait, sometimes I do..... it's when there's a driver in front of me who lacks skill and confidence.

I've driven a focus wagon in europe. My echo is faster. Had no problem getting up to speed and into traffic then either, even when traffic was doing 160.

I miss european roads and drivers

Me too..things just went so SMOOTHLY there....:(

It's all the drivers...

That was MY point, Ryan. When I used to drive fast (sometimes double the limit) in traffic, you can be damned sure I was paying attention to traffic way ahead and even behind. As for 'losing control', that's crap...unless you're a poor driver in the first place, or something mechanical happens. Then you have to be a very GOOD driver. With everything else, you're putting yourself at risk. Noone else. Now I set my cruise at 100 or so to save fuel, and it's boring. I can see someone not as involved in 'driving' as I am whipping out a book (or even more dangerous these days, a video) or doing something else to pass the time. THAT is truly dangerous.

That being said, I didn't usually drive that fast in traffic. Speed doesn't kill, but the differential ups the risk.

Raising the limit to 130 won't do much, except embolden more people that can't handle the speed to go that fast, which is dangerous. The one thing I like about Canada is that people tend to drive in their comfort zone, and the police tend to make a small allowance for that. When the limit here was raised to 110, people still drive at 100, and not many people drove too much faster.

It's funny, but higher gas prices seemed to do a better job of speed enforcement than anything else.

Yeah yeah... I hear you.

Sure WE are good drivers, but when I drive, I don't worry about MY capabilites. I consider myself a pretty damned good driver, but it's not MY driving I'm worried about, it's other people's.

Fast drivers make it dangerous for slow drivers. Slow drivers make it dangerous for the fast drivers. It's a double-edged sword.

Fast and Slow drivers can co-mingle.

Case in point: We're arguing about 120 vs. 100 km/h (Roughly 72 vs 60 mph). Most of the western states have huge 2-lane and 4-lane highways with 80 mph speed limits (that's ~135), without having a significant (read: ANY) increase in fatalities or crashes. Or, as Ziggy is apt to remember fondly, the AutoBahn, in which slow and extremely fast drivers mingle.

Most people are spoon fed that it's the speed. But most responsible yet fast drivers, believe it's the idiocy. Take a cavalier on crappy tires running 110 and weaving all over. You know there's an accident waiting to happen. A car with sports suspension running 160 in a completly open fast lane, is much safer. But who gets the ticket?

If the police enforced what drivers already do (ie, the 401 really is 120-130, and if anyone drags their heels in the fast lane, they get THEIR car impounded), you'd probably have the same results as you do now. Maybe even better.

We don't need slower.
We need to impound the cars of idiots who weave in and out with the cheapest piece of crap that is eventually going to go sideways. And definitely destroy the cars of tards that pull out and don't accelerate, leaving huge speed differences. Almost any 'close' moments I have are people pulling out - even when I'm doing the limit - and not accelerating, putting me hard on my brakes.

just as a note, all roads in Canada (highway, local, rural) have a design speed of 20-30 km/h OVER the posted maximum which means after all factors considered (turn radius at design speed, response time to traffic lights, etc.), you can SAFELY go 20-30 km/h over the limit on any road as that is the speed it was designed to accommodate so the argument that traveling at that speed is dangerous is completely moot.

This morning I saw one of thos LED scrolling text licence plates frames on a van. It said "Don't be stupid, let others use the passing lane for PASSING"

People are starting to get fed up, especially when you hit the 2 lane stretch of 401, there will be some idiot in the passing lane not even checking their mirrors, just cruising ignoring the flow of traffic.

Now 150 is fast for the 401 in most areas during busy times, but I see no problem going that fast if you can when the traffic is light and if people would get out of the way.

I was behind someone just doing under 120, I came up on them they were doing 107 or so passing 3 transports. I flash my highbeams at him to hurry it up and he throws his hands up in the air not knowing what I want from him. I've got about 3 cars and a transport all on my ass at this point I want to pass and get out of the way of faster people, but he is causing a potentially dangerous congestion by being slow and retarded. If your going to pass, pass the damn vehicles and get back into the slow lane then slow down.

My point is at any speed the flow of traffic could be much better if people would gain some ethics in using the lanes. I don't really speed either never over 17km/hr over, but if I want to pass and there is traffic coming I bump it up get by and go back to the slow lane, everyone is happy, traffic is moving.

As for my opinion on the new law, there are laws already in place, the courts chose to be lightweights and let everyone off. So this new law is just like a new pair of underwear, it feels good to put on and provides new comfort and confidence.

I could see this law taking a beating in court soon! People are going to contest accuarcy of radar etc. The best part, the police do not bring evidence of their calibrations of the radar equipment to court, you can demand it, when they don't have it. Well its your day in court, case dismissed. They must prove beyond a "reasonable" doubt.

Does anyone realize cops should be calibrating the radars after every use with tuning forks? Do they ever do this, not likely, maybe once in awhile. And as previously mentioned the radars are also calibrated by professionals, which they must provide proof of, if they don't have it on court day don't give them a chance to get it, ask the case be thrown out.

I got another friend to agree to rent a car as well.
I may actually do a KW to Toronto at 100 run
And I'm paying the extra $10 for full insurance.

always a wise choice. nothing worse than dealing with a client who used his own insurance on a rental and then damaged it.

Mike, driving shoulder to shoulder would net you the same treatment as Gord Thompson.

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/678348/posts

Only now, your right to due process has been lifted by the government, and they'll probably cite you with oreg 455 3.8 and claim your a street racer. They'll take the rental, hand out whatever fine the officially standard equipment 'dice of justice' tell them to, and your protest nets you media coverage as a public nusance.

I've lost faith this is a process that can be stopped.

Paul

Paul's right.

Mike, they've forseen your protest, and the law has been designed to disable it.

Alright.
So they're apparently crafty little lawmakers

But again we have selective enforcement. If you block the highway, they will charge you for driving too slow, or blocking traffic....but cruise all day long in the PASSING lane at the speed limit, and I have YET to see anyone charged with that...

On one occasion when I got a little close to the guy in front to let him know I wanted by, I was pulled over for tailgating, or "bumper humping" as the cop put it. Meanwhile, the idiot cruising the in the passing lane who CAUSED all the problems just kept on going, he was never stopped.

(I beat that ticket, btw)

I was down in mississauga 3 days ago and a guy turning left in a riced out sunfire with spoiler and black rims and hood scoop performed a burnout. I was on the left lane he must of taken a look at my car and must of seen the intercooler and attempted to prove something something don't ask me what cause I dont get and he goes nuts when he gets the turn signal, I just don't get it sometimes must of been a kid and he burned out with people behind him waiting to turn, once again I hoping a cop was around but nothing.

Periods, Mike. You have to learn how to use periods.

Even the differences in speeds usually isn't a problem for a good driver, Ryan. I can usually tell by looking at a car what it's driver is about to do, which is a real plus since people think everyone else is psychic and don't need to see a turn signal.

As for coming up on slow traffic, I respect them. If they're travelling the limit, or just over, while passing other vehicles that's their RIGHT. The law states you are not supposed to exceed the posted limit even when passing, and *I* am the one breaking the law by driving faster. Patience is required. Too many people look at the posted limit as the speed you NEED to go, rather than a maximum.

That law does actually cover your 'planned protest', although that wasn't it's intent. I'd say the intent was to prevent people from passing you (i), or quickly cutting into a line of traffic that is braking, cutting someone off behind you (ii). If all cars in the lanes were doing the same speed, yet just pulling ahead or behind of each other every so often, you're technically within the law. "I went to pass him, but he sped up slightly. Then he slowed down as I was going behind him. I didn't move my cruise control from 100, because that would be breaking the law..."

when is this cruize taking place?
I think we should do it at 105-110k's

i have probably 3 or 4 buddies that would be more than willing to come along.

Aaron