Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
#349954
April 08, 2011 12:25 pm UTC
April 08, 2011 12:25 pm UTC
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Mike Penton
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Hey guys,
I have read a million different threads on clutch adjustment and bleeding, and I've seen the Jacks Transmission video on youtube, but I have an issue I wanted to run by you to see if anyone has some input:
I finished installing the clutch and bled the system, but it seems like there's a bit too much freeplay at the top of the pedal. The problem is that I also cannot push in on the slave cylinder right now, which would mean I need to thread the master cylinder rod away from the firewall more in order to not have the bleeder valve in the master cylinder blocked off. BUT, if I do that, I am only going to create more freeplay at the top of the pedal!
Anyone run into this before? The pedal feels good and is nice and firm, but I don't want the clutch dragging and wearing down on other components...any input is appreciated, thanks.
Mike
96 TSiAWD: GT3076R, FMIC, 3" turbo-back, FIC 750's, ECM-Link, Devil's own meth kit-11.99 @115.88 MPH
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Re: Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Blayne Byrne]
#349971
April 08, 2011 02:21 pm UTC
April 08, 2011 02:21 pm UTC
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Mike Penton
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Yeah I don't think that's what I need, I get loads of travel in the slave cylinder from what I can tell, and I've run heavy clutch pressure plates for years now without modifying the slave cylinder...I was leaning towards it being some sort of adjustment issue between the master cylinder rod or the clutch switch sensor behind the clutch pedal inside the car.
96 TSiAWD: GT3076R, FMIC, 3" turbo-back, FIC 750's, ECM-Link, Devil's own meth kit-11.99 @115.88 MPH
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Re: Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Blayne Byrne]
#349973
April 08, 2011 02:26 pm UTC
April 08, 2011 02:26 pm UTC
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Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
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That rod doesn't fix any problems. His problem is different and he's already preloaded the clutch.
I wouldn't drive the car with the clutch preloaded. Back the rod off till you can press the slave piston in by hand, it might just be a turn or so. Then adjust your cruise control switch down to take up the free play.
Don't just thread the rod in at the exact point you lose the preload. Thread about a half turn more to be on the safe side. Master cylinder expands once the car warms up and it can preload again easily if the bleeder valve gets blocked off. I like to keep my clutch engaging at the highest point possible, without preloading the slave.
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Re: Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Reza Mirza]
#349974
April 08, 2011 02:37 pm UTC
April 08, 2011 02:37 pm UTC
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Mike Penton
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Thanks for that Reza, I will try that this evening. I haven't driven the car for that reason, I didn't want to damage any much more expensive parts!
So if I adjust the cruise control switch down (I.e. towards the forewall/master cylinder), I will have less free play up top?
Perfect, I'll let you know how I make out.
Mike
96 TSiAWD: GT3076R, FMIC, 3" turbo-back, FIC 750's, ECM-Link, Devil's own meth kit-11.99 @115.88 MPH
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Re: Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Reza Mirza]
#349978
April 08, 2011 02:56 pm UTC
April 08, 2011 02:56 pm UTC
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Mike Penton
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Yes that's exactly what I want to see as well, right now I have more than an inch of free play up top, and compared to previous clutches I've had it feels sloppy, so hopefully these small adjustments will do the trick!
96 TSiAWD: GT3076R, FMIC, 3" turbo-back, FIC 750's, ECM-Link, Devil's own meth kit-11.99 @115.88 MPH
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HELP! Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Mike Penton]
#350089
April 09, 2011 07:10 pm UTC
April 09, 2011 07:10 pm UTC
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Mike Penton
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Alright, I am working at this right now, and it's driving me insane! Tried bleeding the clutch again, and got a bit more air out. So I moved on to adjustment: - adjusted master cylinder rod to point just before it closes off the valve inside the cylinder - adjusted cruise switch inwards toward firewall to remove some free play on top of clutch pedal Took the car for a drive and it felt good! Shifted smoothly, no grinding and clutch pedal felt really good. Pulled the car back in the garage, and went to make sure I could still push in on the slave cylinder rod, but now it was tight again So I turned the master cylinder rod counter-clockwise (away from firewall) for half turn, and now I am able to push in on slave cylinder, but the clutch feels like crap again and will not shift properly, and engages right off the floor. So basically, I cannot get master cylinder adjustment to the point where it works properly, AND I am able to push in on the slave cylinder!! WTF?!? I have a spare master cylinder to try, do you guys think that is my problem? I'm pretty rotted with this now, because it's the only thing keeping my car off the road, any help is appreciated (and the sooner the better, I'm in the garage while typing, ha-ha.
96 TSiAWD: GT3076R, FMIC, 3" turbo-back, FIC 750's, ECM-Link, Devil's own meth kit-11.99 @115.88 MPH
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Re: HELP! Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Nick Gallo]
#350110
April 10, 2011 01:39 am UTC
April 10, 2011 01:39 am UTC
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Mike Penton
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I swapped in a known working master cylinder from my old car, just need to bleed and adjust it in the morning and see if that solves my problems!`
96 TSiAWD: GT3076R, FMIC, 3" turbo-back, FIC 750's, ECM-Link, Devil's own meth kit-11.99 @115.88 MPH
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Re: HELP! Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Mike Penton]
#350140
April 10, 2011 06:47 pm UTC
April 10, 2011 06:47 pm UTC
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Mike Penton
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Got the new master installed and bled, and everything seems good to go, there must have been something up with the cylinder I took out, although I can't quite tell what it is!
Just out of curiosity, can some people chime in with symptoms they have seen before either a master or slave cylinder failed, ASIDE FROM LEAKAGE. Thanks
96 TSiAWD: GT3076R, FMIC, 3" turbo-back, FIC 750's, ECM-Link, Devil's own meth kit-11.99 @115.88 MPH
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Re: HELP! Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Reza Mirza]
#350152
April 10, 2011 10:04 pm UTC
April 10, 2011 10:04 pm UTC
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Mike Penton
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Both the master I took out, and the one that went back in (used from my old Talon, and not the original) were both "Nabco" brand, so I am not sure if they are OEM or not to be honest. If I find out that they're not OEM units, I am going to pick up a new OEM master and install that to be done with this!
So the OEM's actually provide more engagement, and there's a bit more forgiveness in the internal bleeder valve when it comes to adjustment? I am just trying to justify the $150!
96 TSiAWD: GT3076R, FMIC, 3" turbo-back, FIC 750's, ECM-Link, Devil's own meth kit-11.99 @115.88 MPH
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Re: HELP! Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Reza Mirza]
#350220
April 11, 2011 02:17 pm UTC
April 11, 2011 02:17 pm UTC
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Mike Penton
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Thanks for the help Reza....driving the car today and all seems good, but I may still go with an OEM master for some piece of mind.
96 TSiAWD: GT3076R, FMIC, 3" turbo-back, FIC 750's, ECM-Link, Devil's own meth kit-11.99 @115.88 MPH
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Re: HELP! Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Mike Penton]
#350309
April 12, 2011 05:14 pm UTC
April 12, 2011 05:14 pm UTC
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Michael Lee
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I would go OEM as well. I had all sorts of problems with my clutch engagement, which led to a complete Master cylinder failure and me stupidly forcing the gear lever into gear and damaging my transmission. I had 1 master cylinder unknown brand fail on me installed by Magnus. Then the second one they put in unknown brand started failing again before my car's rear main seal blew. OEM for sure on this part. Supposedly they hold up better with higher pressure plates as well, compared to the aftermarket ones. The engagement point kept "lowering" right off of the floor when the master started "going". I was told that maybe it's not the master, but something else wrong like my clutch. ??? $150 bucks is worth it in my opinion compared to breaking your transmission or doing damage to your clutch from not disengaging properly. I learned the hard way.
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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Re: HELP! Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Daren Peacock]
#350475
April 14, 2011 11:49 am UTC
April 14, 2011 11:49 am UTC
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Mike Penton
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Yeah that is a great link, I think you posted that before somewhere else on the forum right? When I was searching through old posts I think I came across that link from you, very helpful. I've been driving the car all week, about 150 kms so far in city, stop and go driving, and the clutch is fantastic. I am yet to try any launches as I want to ensure proper break-in, but I would DEFINITELY recommend the ACT 2900 PP / South Bend Kevlar-Feramic clutch disc combo, very nice indeed Nice engagement, pedal pressure is firm but not crazy, and no chatter whatsoever.
96 TSiAWD: GT3076R, FMIC, 3" turbo-back, FIC 750's, ECM-Link, Devil's own meth kit-11.99 @115.88 MPH
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Re: HELP! Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Daren Peacock]
#350484
April 14, 2011 01:58 pm UTC
April 14, 2011 01:58 pm UTC
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Mike Penton
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I was replacing an SBR 3500 clutch with about 20,000 kms, and it was worn pretty flat when I took it out! Down to the rivets on the disc, but pressure plate and stock flywheel were fine. I had the flywheel resurfaced when I put in the new setup.
Good luck with yours, hopefully it helps get your times down to where you want to see them. I'm hoping for low 11's this year, but we'll have to wait and see how that goes
96 TSiAWD: GT3076R, FMIC, 3" turbo-back, FIC 750's, ECM-Link, Devil's own meth kit-11.99 @115.88 MPH
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Re: HELP! Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Daren Peacock]
#350487
April 14, 2011 02:11 pm UTC
April 14, 2011 02:11 pm UTC
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
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I'm also ordering a SBC TZ/FE disk for my ACT2900. Spoke to Tim Z yesterday and he recommended me that disk for my setup as well. I'm glad your liking that setup Mike. I finally had my first ACT failure. Luckily I wasn't driving the car. 5,000 km on my ACT2900 and ACT 6 puck sprung, no racing or launching. Shifted great for the amount of time driven. Was bleeding the clutch in the garage the other day and heard a nice snap from the tranny area when I was pressing the clutch down and lost about half the pedal pressure. Anyways pulled off the tranny and the ACT2900 had 3 broken/bent fingers and the base plate underneath the friction surface cracked in 3 spots. The 6 puck disk was also missing material off one of the pucks. Anyways I got to say that ACT does stand behind their product. They still have great service even though I had a failure. I pulled it off sent pics to them the same day. No questions asked, Ryan from ACT told me to send him pics to prove that I have destroyed the pp and 6 puck sprung disk and then new ones will be mailed to me at no cost. Sledge hammer didn't do much so I pulled out the air grinder . I sent him these pics and assured him these will be going straight to the garbage So now I'll be trying the SBC disk when the new pp and disk arrive.
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Re: HELP! Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Alex Akachinskiy]
#350495
April 14, 2011 02:52 pm UTC
April 14, 2011 02:52 pm UTC
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
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Yea, well I'm not sure what happened, but definately a major pp failure.
I will be selling the 6 puck sprung once I get it, since I'm trying the sbc disk this year. Let me know if your interested.
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Re: HELP! Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Alex Akachinskiy]
#350524
April 14, 2011 05:21 pm UTC
April 14, 2011 05:21 pm UTC
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Daren Peacock
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Hmmm, I thought everyone could view that, even if you weren't a member? If your a probationary member, not sure why you can view it, as the threads in the "newbie" section. I thought new members could look at most non private sections but only post in the newbie section?
98 Eclipse GSX DSM82HTA
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Re: HELP! Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Daren Peacock]
#350530
April 14, 2011 05:39 pm UTC
April 14, 2011 05:39 pm UTC
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Mike Penton
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Reza, that is some pretty catastrophic damage! I wonder why the bulk of the carnage is on one section of the PP and disc? I have never seen anything like that....then again, I haven't run 10's either
96 TSiAWD: GT3076R, FMIC, 3" turbo-back, FIC 750's, ECM-Link, Devil's own meth kit-11.99 @115.88 MPH
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Re: HELP! Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Mike Penton]
#350531
April 14, 2011 05:47 pm UTC
April 14, 2011 05:47 pm UTC
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
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I guess you didn't read the post properly. I put a sledge hammer and air grinder to it to destroy the clutch so that ACT could send me a new one, lol. The pp friction surface and disk actually looked pretty new. Look at the pp fingers, you'll notice 2-3 of them off, and that little chunk of material missing from the 6 puck. The pics above are my attempt at destroying the clutch to prove to ACT that this is going straight to the garbage.
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Re: HELP! Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Daren Peacock]
#350534
April 14, 2011 06:03 pm UTC
April 14, 2011 06:03 pm UTC
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
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Re: HELP! Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Reza Mirza]
#350535
April 14, 2011 06:13 pm UTC
April 14, 2011 06:13 pm UTC
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Mike Penton
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Ha-ha, I get it now....so the missing piece of friction surface and the 2 or 3 fingers being slightly off were the actual issue...I wonder how many people have installed PP's with similar damage and not noticed it at all....
Good to know that ACT stand behind their stuff though, many other companies would not do the same
96 TSiAWD: GT3076R, FMIC, 3" turbo-back, FIC 750's, ECM-Link, Devil's own meth kit-11.99 @115.88 MPH
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Re: HELP! Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Mike Penton]
#350537
April 14, 2011 06:18 pm UTC
April 14, 2011 06:18 pm UTC
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
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Ha-ha, I get it now....so the missing piece of friction surface and the 2 or 3 fingers being slightly off were the actual issue... Yup you got it Good thing is this happened right after bleeding the clutch in the garage. I actually heard the snap from the tranny area. May not have heard it if I was driving the car. I almost instantly new it was the PP, and after checking the basics was 100% sure.
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Re: HELP! Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Michael Lee]
#350547
April 14, 2011 06:58 pm UTC
April 14, 2011 06:58 pm UTC
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Mike Penton
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How long did it take you to pull off the tranny? He seems pretty experienced, I am guessing it was on the ground in 40 minutes...close??
96 TSiAWD: GT3076R, FMIC, 3" turbo-back, FIC 750's, ECM-Link, Devil's own meth kit-11.99 @115.88 MPH
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Re: HELP! Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Reza Mirza]
#350566
April 14, 2011 08:21 pm UTC
April 14, 2011 08:21 pm UTC
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Posts: 2,940 Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Michael Lee
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Mother of god. I know I could probably find a writeup somewhere, but if you are bored, could you please write one up? Early Christmas gift? I'm going to attempt it sometime this spring so I can get my tranny and t-case out to you Reza. I'll have help from a Honda/Audi friend. Edit: Do you have a damn "quick release" transmission? lol Sorry for hijacking the Thread OP.
Last edited by Michael Lee; April 14, 2011 08:22 pm UTC.
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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Re: HELP! Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Michael Lee]
#350574
April 14, 2011 08:45 pm UTC
April 14, 2011 08:45 pm UTC
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
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This is a 1g thing Michael: From the bottom: (1) Front two wheels on jackstands only. Remove wheels and drain tranny fluid. (2) Remove one crossmember and downpipe bolts with airtools. Unhook the front and middle rubber exhaust hangers. Front half of exhaust is hanging now. (3) Remove transfer case bolts, and slide the t-case over and place on the ground. Driveshaft is still attached (yoke is still in t case) and t-case is still full of fluid. No need to drain it. (4) Remove two strut bolts on both sides, and axle carrier bolts. Pop passenger side axle off with small hammer and screw driver. Pull axles out. To the top: (1) Remove intake pipe, uicp, battery, starter, shifter cables, slave, speedo cable. (2) Put jack under tranny. (3) Remove tranny mount, 4 tranny bolts, and scattershield. (4) Remove jack. (5) Wiggle tranny and drop it to the ground gently. I save time with air tools. I blast off hardware where its possible. Also every car is different and has different tricks. It helps when stuff is not seized either. 2g's take longer.
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Re: HELP! Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Reza Mirza]
#350576
April 14, 2011 08:57 pm UTC
April 14, 2011 08:57 pm UTC
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,940 Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Michael Lee
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Holy mother.
Anyone want to trade?
Just kidding.
Definitely sounds straight forward.
Of course it'll be a PITA to get the bolts out I'm sure. *sigh*
Thanks man!
Basic gist of the work is great information for me. Now it's just a matter of grabbing a manual, finding a spot to do the work, and getting to it.
1997 Eclipse GST/X Eat in small amounts. Otherwise be prepared to paint toilet bowls~ Mike Eng
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Re: HELP! Clutch bleeding/adjustment issue
[Re: Michael Lee]
#350609
April 15, 2011 01:55 am UTC
April 15, 2011 01:55 am UTC
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Steve Kinnaird
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Wanna save a few more minutes? I'm 99.9% sure the last time I pulled my tranny I left the intermediate shaft attached. Just slid the tranny off it. At MOST I simply unbolted the carrier bearing from the block.
Now, I'll have all kinds of time to talk about DSMs, because I won't be busy fixing mine!
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