Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Mike Eng]
#389301
November 22, 2012 07:21 pm UTC
November 22, 2012 07:21 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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Nice pun Mike, I would be curious too. The plasma plugs definitely give good results!
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Mike Eng]
#389317
November 22, 2012 10:58 pm UTC
November 22, 2012 10:58 pm UTC
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 481 Trenton, Ontario
Garrett Logan
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 481
Trenton, Ontario
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Garett, what plugs did you use?
Understandably copper's conductive properties aren't as effective as the plati's or iri's. BUT, without this plasma plug, how is it ACTUALLY making plasma? especially across a .024 gap?
Brent please chime in! When we tested my car, i had regular copper plugs from crappy that i threw in after my engine rebuild...The OEM plugs for a 4G69 engine are iridium anyways...Brent had his Lancer there as well, and we ended up borrowing his iridium plugs for the test. After him making fun of me for having over-gapped "lawn mower" plugs in my car...lol
Sorry, I'm a Lancer kid.
13.8 @ 100 (12's next?)
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Mike Eng]
#389323
November 22, 2012 11:32 pm UTC
November 22, 2012 11:32 pm UTC
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23 Carp Ontario
Brent Fortin
Newbie on Probation
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Newbie on Probation
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Carp Ontario
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Hello to all DSM'ers,
First off its been great to see all the talk around SPDI. I will go over all and do quick response to as many questions as I can.
UVTUNE TURBO MAPPING/ECU RE-FLASH TURBO-KITS.COM Turbo Kit Bulley stage 3 clutch with ceramic plate EVO 9 Leather seats EVO 9 steering wheel Rota Boost wheels glow shift guages SPDI Spark Programmable Plasma Ignition (YOU NEED THIS)
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Mike Eng]
#389325
November 22, 2012 11:57 pm UTC
November 22, 2012 11:57 pm UTC
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23 Carp Ontario
Brent Fortin
Newbie on Probation
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Newbie on Probation
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Carp Ontario
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well, we tried 2 profiles (unsure of pulse), the first was responsive. comparable to the stock system. but the 2nd, seemed a lot smoother, and more responsive. wish we had a dyno to compare too Just to clarify, what is meant by "profile" SPDI can program/adjust various aspects of the spark to create or "shape" a unique spark to match the precise amount of spark energy for the entire burn duration. With the SPDi Manager (software) you can program or "tune": Breakdown Current Ignition Delay Power Plasma Support Power Ignition Delay Duration Plasma Support Power By adapting these settings you can "shape" or "adapt" the spark to the specific needs of the air fuel mixture for the conditions its under. With Mike's car the first "profile" was based on a car running normal AFR, after looking AFR and ignition timing I noticed he was a bit rich under full load at WOT so I adjusted the spark to best match the conditions and he said "but the 2nd, seemed a lot smoother, and more responsive." proving not one spark will do for all conditions. I am confidant I could have made the car much more responsive if we have more time. CDI systems that fire multiple sparks with a fixed power level, SPDI will fire one continuous spark with varying power levels for up to 60 crank angle degrees.
UVTUNE TURBO MAPPING/ECU RE-FLASH TURBO-KITS.COM Turbo Kit Bulley stage 3 clutch with ceramic plate EVO 9 Leather seats EVO 9 steering wheel Rota Boost wheels glow shift guages SPDI Spark Programmable Plasma Ignition (YOU NEED THIS)
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Michael Lee]
#389326
November 22, 2012 11:59 pm UTC
November 22, 2012 11:59 pm UTC
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23 Carp Ontario
Brent Fortin
Newbie on Probation
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Newbie on Probation
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Carp Ontario
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WOW, would this not help efficiency and mileage? Correct (in short)testing shows that with different setting/profiles both can be achieved.
UVTUNE TURBO MAPPING/ECU RE-FLASH TURBO-KITS.COM Turbo Kit Bulley stage 3 clutch with ceramic plate EVO 9 Leather seats EVO 9 steering wheel Rota Boost wheels glow shift guages SPDI Spark Programmable Plasma Ignition (YOU NEED THIS)
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Mike Eng]
#389327
November 23, 2012 12:00 am UTC
November 23, 2012 12:00 am UTC
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23 Carp Ontario
Brent Fortin
Newbie on Probation
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Newbie on Probation
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Carp Ontario
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yes it would, especially seeing as you can program it to spark longer, burning more fuel..lower emissions for sure This is a very good point. By burning more fuel efficiently our testing has shown a decrease in emissions.
UVTUNE TURBO MAPPING/ECU RE-FLASH TURBO-KITS.COM Turbo Kit Bulley stage 3 clutch with ceramic plate EVO 9 Leather seats EVO 9 steering wheel Rota Boost wheels glow shift guages SPDI Spark Programmable Plasma Ignition (YOU NEED THIS)
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#389328
November 23, 2012 12:05 am UTC
November 23, 2012 12:05 am UTC
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23 Carp Ontario
Brent Fortin
Newbie on Probation
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Newbie on Probation
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Posts: 23
Carp Ontario
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For me if it made a good amount of difference on both or a big difference on power I would be down. I don't care much for fuel economy, at least not on my talon I have tested this system for over a year now and I have seen some very interesting situations and new direction for tuning because if the adaptability for the spark to the varying conditions or requirements of the engine.
UVTUNE TURBO MAPPING/ECU RE-FLASH TURBO-KITS.COM Turbo Kit Bulley stage 3 clutch with ceramic plate EVO 9 Leather seats EVO 9 steering wheel Rota Boost wheels glow shift guages SPDI Spark Programmable Plasma Ignition (YOU NEED THIS)
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Reza Mirza]
#389329
November 23, 2012 12:10 am UTC
November 23, 2012 12:10 am UTC
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23 Carp Ontario
Brent Fortin
Newbie on Probation
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Newbie on Probation
Joined: Nov 2012
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Carp Ontario
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I'm pretty sure Brent will come on and back his product Since you guys have already done numerous testing, I'd like to hear what you guinea pigs noticed with this. Is it just better mileage? There are a few testimonials about the system but here is the one that stands out in my mind. I'm Lionel from Speedmerchants , I have a 2000 Audi TT quattro and did some modifications to it . For example Garett GT28RS turbo , Integrated engineering 20mm connecting rods , CTS tuning custom intercooler , turbo piping and manifold , Maestro 7 software and many other parts . The power increase was great at 14 pounds of boost it really cooked but I wanted more . With the mods I did I was capable of running at least 20-22 psi but I had a problem anything over 18-19 psi I'd get a miss and stutter . I've deduced that it was an ignition miss changed the plug gap but I need more power and thats when I met Brent from Spdi Spark . He tossed in the plug and play kit and in minutes we went for a drive . First thing I did was floor it and to my amazement at 19psi no miss !! Right away I was impressed then I kept cranking up the boost now I'm up to 24 psi and It pulls hard !! Now with a little more tweaking I'm super impressed the power comes on super smooth and the car is running cleaner and I noticed an increase in fuel economy even with my 630 cc injectors ! I highly recommend Spdi spark if your a tuner like me or if your just want your car to run more efficiently ! Lionel
UVTUNE TURBO MAPPING/ECU RE-FLASH TURBO-KITS.COM Turbo Kit Bulley stage 3 clutch with ceramic plate EVO 9 Leather seats EVO 9 steering wheel Rota Boost wheels glow shift guages SPDI Spark Programmable Plasma Ignition (YOU NEED THIS)
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Mike Eng]
#389330
November 23, 2012 12:12 am UTC
November 23, 2012 12:12 am UTC
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23 Carp Ontario
Brent Fortin
Newbie on Probation
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Newbie on Probation
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Carp Ontario
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I've been trying to wrap my head around this plug concept and I don't get it. I had to pick up a set of platinum or iridium plugs just for the testing. Copper plugs won't work according to Brent. Garett, what plugs did you use? Understandably copper's conductive properties aren't as effective as the plati's or iri's. BUT, without this plasma plug, how is it ACTUALLY making plasma? especially across a .024 gap? Brent please chime in! What SPDi needs is a sharp concentrated point the fat ended electrodes have supplied us with all kinds of misfires. The Platinum or RI plugs work the best. SPDI uses ionization to promote combustion. The plasma "energizes" the the molecules ahead of the flame front, this helps stabilize the flame front. To paraphrase Jeremy Clarkston: the fuzzy spark jumps the gap, witch craft happens and you burn more fuel.... Now that my profile has been approved I will be on here regularly to answer as many questions as possible. If i missed some questions I do apologize. Brent
Last edited by Brent Fortin; November 23, 2012 12:18 am UTC.
UVTUNE TURBO MAPPING/ECU RE-FLASH TURBO-KITS.COM Turbo Kit Bulley stage 3 clutch with ceramic plate EVO 9 Leather seats EVO 9 steering wheel Rota Boost wheels glow shift guages SPDI Spark Programmable Plasma Ignition (YOU NEED THIS)
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Mike Eng]
#389332
November 23, 2012 12:33 am UTC
November 23, 2012 12:33 am UTC
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,106 Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
Andrew Trapp
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,106
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
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I think what most of us would like to see is Dyno before/after and either identical back to back drive or long term before/after drives for fuel economy.
From the sounds of it, it is a system that is really easy, once you have it tuned it, get a reading, take it out, and reconnect the stock system and have a back to back dyno pull where nothing else could influence the results.
Most people say DSM'ers are cheap, but I prefer to say, we know what is the best bang for buck out there and it isn't just based on a butt-dyno.
edit: just took a good look at the program screen, looks really damn neat...with that being said, is there support for higher resolution for the graph in terms of RPM?
Last edited by Andrew Trapp; November 23, 2012 12:34 am UTC.
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Andrew Trapp]
#389334
November 23, 2012 12:56 am UTC
November 23, 2012 12:56 am UTC
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23 Carp Ontario
Brent Fortin
Newbie on Probation
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Newbie on Probation
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Carp Ontario
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I think what most of us would like to see is Dyno before/after and either identical back to back drive or long term before/after drives for fuel economy.
From the sounds of it, it is a system that is really easy, once you have it tuned it, get a reading, take it out, and reconnect the stock system and have a back to back dyno pull where nothing else could influence the results.
Most people say DSM'ers are cheap, but I prefer to say, we know what is the best bang for buck out there and it isn't just based on a butt-dyno.
edit: just took a good look at the program screen, looks really damn neat...with that being said, is there support for higher resolution for the graph in terms of RPM? If set up you can set the RPM ranges to go up 1000rpm at a time but if you set the RPM ranges for crusing and WOT you can group a few ranges together. More ranges are coming. I don't think anyone is cheap regardless of the stereotype, consumers are getting smarter and if you are going to hand out that kind of cash you want to know it works. On to the Dyno, I understand its the industry standard but there are a few things to consider before laying dyno results as the only standard. The major factor with SPDi is this: as SPDi burns more fuel, it will also clean out years of deposits, depending on how bad the conditions are this could take a few days of driving to so. After SPDi cleans out the deposits then put the stock ignition back on, the stock ignition will reap the benefits, then slowly carbon up and you will notice a drop off in performance. There is way to much going on to do a back to back comparison, we are not really comparing the same things here. We use an accelerometer that measures longitudinal g-force. If we can get a test car for a day I can fully develop SPDi and get results.
UVTUNE TURBO MAPPING/ECU RE-FLASH TURBO-KITS.COM Turbo Kit Bulley stage 3 clutch with ceramic plate EVO 9 Leather seats EVO 9 steering wheel Rota Boost wheels glow shift guages SPDI Spark Programmable Plasma Ignition (YOU NEED THIS)
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Brent Fortin]
#389338
November 23, 2012 01:38 am UTC
November 23, 2012 01:38 am UTC
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,106 Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
Andrew Trapp
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,106
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
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On to the Dyno, I understand its the industry standard but there are a few things to consider before laying dyno results as the only standard. The major factor with SPDi is this: as SPDi burns more fuel, it will also clean out years of deposits, depending on how bad the conditions are this could take a few days of driving to so. After SPDi cleans out the deposits then put the stock ignition back on, the stock ignition will reap the benefits, then slowly carbon up and you will notice a drop off in performance. There is way to much going on to do a back to back comparison, we are not really comparing the same things here.
An A-B-A test will resolve all those issues. In fact, an A-B-A test will prove everything you just said. If there is in fact a performance increase to be found from simply cleaning out the deposits, then comparison between the first and last will indicate such.
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Mike Eng]
#389341
November 23, 2012 03:11 am UTC
November 23, 2012 03:11 am UTC
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749 Belleville, Ontario
Ryan Laliberte
No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
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No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749
Belleville, Ontario
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Welcome aboard Brent!
Your timing is bittersweet IMO. You've got a great product, marketable to a niche market, however with the DSM platform, these cars have been around for 24 years, and running 10s is a common thing these days.
You do however give those who wish to turbocharge their cars an option for ignition control, which is a benefit they will benefit from extremely.
Welcome to the board!
AWDAuto 1996 TSi AWD Automagic12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G FP Green HTA - 11.42/123 Team Pump Gas and Meth RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts "Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim CarreyLast Login: September 28, 2021
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Mike Eng]
#389403
November 24, 2012 01:10 pm UTC
November 24, 2012 01:10 pm UTC
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,263 Niagara Falls, Ontario
Ziggy Dietrich
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,263
Niagara Falls, Ontario
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Just saying that manufacturers, while constantly looking to improve the product (up to a point...there still needs to be built in obsolescence)...are also always considering cost. I doubt that a manufacturer is going to add a very expensive ignition system just to improve product. Hell, they are already making HUGE improvements just with weight, materials, and other less expensive technologies...like Mazda's "skyactive" and Ford's "ecoboost".
"bluebird" worlds fastest scooter ridden by me "Whitebird" RIP
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Mike Eng]
#389406
November 24, 2012 02:32 pm UTC
November 24, 2012 02:32 pm UTC
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,263 Niagara Falls, Ontario
Ziggy Dietrich
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,263
Niagara Falls, Ontario
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You might be right. I still remember hearing, though, that if a car maker can save a penny per vehicle, that translates to a shitload of money...
Hell, I remember when Ford figured out that the Pinto (I think it was) was a rolling molotov cocktail. They had the bean counters crunch the numbers, and figured out it would be cheaper to payoff the widows than to recall the cars and fix them.
"bluebird" worlds fastest scooter ridden by me "Whitebird" RIP
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Ziggy Dietrich]
#389411
November 24, 2012 04:04 pm UTC
November 24, 2012 04:04 pm UTC
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,808 Ontario, Canada
Salomon Ponte
Insane Member
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Insane Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,808
Ontario, Canada
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You might be right. I still remember hearing, though, that if a car maker can save a penny per vehicle, that translates to a shitload of money...
Hell, I remember when Ford figured out that the Pinto (I think it was) was a rolling molotov cocktail. They had the bean counters crunch the numbers, and figured out it would be cheaper to payoff the widows than to recall the cars and fix them. Have worked as a Quality Control Engineer for Toyota (at the Cambridge plant where they produce Corollas, Matrices and the RX350), I can tell you that even down to the hundreths of a cent per car (especially on something like the Corolla which is produced in such vast quantities) a large amount is saved over the course of a vehicle's production life. If you figure they're pumping out about 1000 cars per day, 6/7 days per week, that's over $3100 in savings per year (assuming 1 cent saved per part and 1 part per vehicle). That may not sound like a lot, but consider that there are many hundreds of components that go into each car, with many of the smaller items being used multiple times (i.e. fasteners, clips, etc.). And, many of those smaller items are shared between platforms. You have a .1 cent/piece saving on a bolt you use 10 times in each of the 3 vehicles produced there, that's 1 cent per vehicle for every vehicle. It really does add up, especially on a low profit margin car like the Corolla.
Last edited by Salomon Ponte; November 24, 2012 04:05 pm UTC.
'92 Talon TSi AWD - 5 Speed/E16G/12.385s @ 115.13mph
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Mike Eng]
#389625
November 29, 2012 01:56 am UTC
November 29, 2012 01:56 am UTC
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23 Carp Ontario
Brent Fortin
Newbie on Probation
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Newbie on Probation
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Carp Ontario
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Here is an interesting piece: I finally installed Spdi on my Lancer(again, long story) I have the AFR set at 10.1 WOT 6psi(max boost) after some tinkering with the system my afr is now at 12.3 same conditions. remember I did not touch the ECU tune I just made a longer spark; before the car would pull nicely in 3rd gear now the car breaks loose, I will post the iphone vid in a bit...notice the chuckle at the end of the vid.
UVTUNE TURBO MAPPING/ECU RE-FLASH TURBO-KITS.COM Turbo Kit Bulley stage 3 clutch with ceramic plate EVO 9 Leather seats EVO 9 steering wheel Rota Boost wheels glow shift guages SPDI Spark Programmable Plasma Ignition (YOU NEED THIS)
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Mike Eng]
#389626
November 29, 2012 01:58 am UTC
November 29, 2012 01:58 am UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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with the system my afr is now at 12.3 same conditions That's impressive! With traditional spark you would be crazy to run that lean!!
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#389629
November 29, 2012 02:06 am UTC
November 29, 2012 02:06 am UTC
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23 Carp Ontario
Brent Fortin
Newbie on Probation
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Newbie on Probation
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Carp Ontario
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Thats just it, i did not touch the afr, the afr is set at 10.3 and the spark was able to burn more available fuel making the reading 12.5
I cant quantify if buy i did feel more pull from the car. Before I could not break the tires loose but now I can, I know thats not documented numbers but it is a attribute of sorts...vid still uploading...
Last edited by Brent Fortin; November 29, 2012 02:08 am UTC.
UVTUNE TURBO MAPPING/ECU RE-FLASH TURBO-KITS.COM Turbo Kit Bulley stage 3 clutch with ceramic plate EVO 9 Leather seats EVO 9 steering wheel Rota Boost wheels glow shift guages SPDI Spark Programmable Plasma Ignition (YOU NEED THIS)
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Stephen Richardson]
#389632
November 29, 2012 02:09 am UTC
November 29, 2012 02:09 am UTC
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23 Carp Ontario
Brent Fortin
Newbie on Probation
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Newbie on Probation
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Posts: 23
Carp Ontario
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It is very rich, was set that way for tuning purposes better to start rich and back it off than go too lean and make a mess.
UVTUNE TURBO MAPPING/ECU RE-FLASH TURBO-KITS.COM Turbo Kit Bulley stage 3 clutch with ceramic plate EVO 9 Leather seats EVO 9 steering wheel Rota Boost wheels glow shift guages SPDI Spark Programmable Plasma Ignition (YOU NEED THIS)
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Mike Eng]
#389633
November 29, 2012 02:15 am UTC
November 29, 2012 02:15 am UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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Fixed my sentence so there is no ambiguity. I would say 10 is good for WOT, it's definitely rich if you are sitting at a stop light.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Stephen Richardson]
#389637
November 29, 2012 02:20 am UTC
November 29, 2012 02:20 am UTC
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23 Carp Ontario
Brent Fortin
Newbie on Probation
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Newbie on Probation
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Carp Ontario
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Others in the company are focusing in emissions, Personally, and I quote Ricky Bobby "I need to go fast"..ok bad joke...lol...we do have some base emission numbers and they are impressive.
UVTUNE TURBO MAPPING/ECU RE-FLASH TURBO-KITS.COM Turbo Kit Bulley stage 3 clutch with ceramic plate EVO 9 Leather seats EVO 9 steering wheel Rota Boost wheels glow shift guages SPDI Spark Programmable Plasma Ignition (YOU NEED THIS)
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Re: SPDI spark
[Re: Stephen Richardson]
#389640
November 29, 2012 02:26 am UTC
November 29, 2012 02:26 am UTC
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23 Carp Ontario
Brent Fortin
Newbie on Probation
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Newbie on Probation
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Carp Ontario
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I would love to throw your system on a honda/Acura and see what is does to emmission. Me too, I should be in TO in 2 weeks doing a test on a K-series. I really want to do a b-series but we would need the AEM distributor delete, we would need to run a few tests and see if we can come up with firmware that will work. Ok here is the link finally...again listen for the chuckle ..the car never broke loose like this. http://s217.beta.photobucket.com/user/AftershockAutomotive/media/IMG_0598.mp4.html
Last edited by Brent Fortin; November 29, 2012 02:33 am UTC.
UVTUNE TURBO MAPPING/ECU RE-FLASH TURBO-KITS.COM Turbo Kit Bulley stage 3 clutch with ceramic plate EVO 9 Leather seats EVO 9 steering wheel Rota Boost wheels glow shift guages SPDI Spark Programmable Plasma Ignition (YOU NEED THIS)
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