Re: putting everything together fast but safe.
[Re: Kirk Harding]
#404166
May 30, 2013 12:52 am UTC
May 30, 2013 12:52 am UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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Well you can tune with the MAF-T for the injectors, everything else shouldn't change much.
So will you have 3 inch turbo back?
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: putting everything together fast but safe.
[Re: Kirk Harding]
#404179
May 30, 2013 01:35 am UTC
May 30, 2013 01:35 am UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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yeah with the 650s you should be fine. if you are going to go bigger than that than use something else. Do some reading on tuners about the maf-t, it really messes with your cars idle and closed/open loop function.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: putting everything together fast but safe.
[Re: Kirk Harding]
#404235
May 30, 2013 12:47 pm UTC
May 30, 2013 12:47 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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I would go burnt chip too if you are trying to save some money. SAFC is the same idea as MAF-T so no point in grabbing both. I am not sure the 650s will net you the 300 hp though, if the do your duty cycle will probably be pretty high.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: putting everything together fast but safe.
[Re: Terry S]
#404236
May 30, 2013 12:48 pm UTC
May 30, 2013 12:48 pm UTC
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,808 Ontario, Canada
Salomon Ponte
Insane Member
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Insane Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,808
Ontario, Canada
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ECM link V2 for savings or V3 for easy tuning. by far the best bang for buck, I'm not sure why you would want to try reinventing the wheel or going with a platform that has scarce support for our cars..
I'm sure you would rather be driving and enjoying your car not banging your head trying to figure out how to tune. start off right by getting either Link or an AEM, its not a tough choice I would remove AEM from that statement. It's a powerful unit, but for what he's doing it's far more complex than he'll ever need. I'd much sooner suggest DSMap, EvoScan (Evo 8 ECU), etc. Although Link would be and still is my first suggestion.
'92 Talon TSi AWD - 5 Speed/E16G/12.385s @ 115.13mph
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Re: putting everything together fast but safe.
[Re: Kirk Harding]
#404238
May 30, 2013 12:53 pm UTC
May 30, 2013 12:53 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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I am running stock base pressure, maybe I will look at doing that when my duty cycle gets high. Hopefully that won't happen soon as I have 1000s
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: putting everything together fast but safe.
[Re: Kirk Harding]
#404242
May 30, 2013 01:14 pm UTC
May 30, 2013 01:14 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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So did you just change the pressure in link so it would recalculate and everything ran fine? I am just curious if I am going to have to do some crazy tuning after.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: putting everything together fast but safe.
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#404249
May 30, 2013 01:42 pm UTC
May 30, 2013 01:42 pm UTC
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,808 Ontario, Canada
Salomon Ponte
Insane Member
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Insane Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,808
Ontario, Canada
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So did you just change the pressure in link so it would recalculate and everything ran fine? I am just curious if I am going to have to do some crazy tuning after. My global in Link had already been modified from the 'suggested' value, but all you need to do is subtract the the difference. Let's say you originally set your global based on 1000s, 37.5psi BFP etc. and got -55.1% as your suggested global. Now let's say your new suggested global is -58.4%, based on the same variables other than BFP. Therefore, you'd want to subtract 3.3% from your global. My global had already been modified from suggested, but subtracting the difference calculated kept my tune pretty much perfectly in line, but got my IDC down. E.g. Suggested Global @ BFP of 37.5 w. 1000's - -55.1% Current Global @ BFP 0f 37.5 w. 1000's - -51.3% Suggested Global @ BFP of 44 w. 1000's - -58.4% Difference in Suggested Globals - 3.3% [=-55.1 - (-58.4)] New Current Global @ BFP of 44 w. 1000's - -54.6% [=-51.3 - 3.3] Hopefully that makes sense. There really should be little to no tuning required if done this way. Do keep in mind, this may affect how well certain values line up for logging purposes (e.g. AFR and AFREst), but should not affect your overall tune at all.
Last edited by Salomon Ponte; May 30, 2013 01:44 pm UTC.
'92 Talon TSi AWD - 5 Speed/E16G/12.385s @ 115.13mph
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Re: putting everything together fast but safe.
[Re: Kirk Harding]
#404250
May 30, 2013 02:09 pm UTC
May 30, 2013 02:09 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749 Belleville, Ontario
Ryan Laliberte
No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
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No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749
Belleville, Ontario
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Kirk, you'll get a 100% vote from anyone running ECMLink. There is only one way of thinking when building your car.
Cheap. Fast. Reliable. Pick 2.
Get link and be done with it. Even if it means scraping together a few extra bucks over the course of another month or so. This DSMap crap isn't going to benefit you in the long run, only because of two things.
1: PnP - Not much customization 2: Very little support
If you go with a "lesser" tuning platform like an SAFC or a chip or DSMap, you'll be kicking yourself later when you try and get rid of it to upgrade to ECMLink, and you WILL eventually outgrow what these lesser platforms can handle. IMO, there's only one way to go with these cars to get the best bang for your buck and that's with ECMLink. You can have someone in Dubai look at your logs for you and give it a tweak, and email you back the settings. I don't know too many other platforms you can do that with.
AWDAuto 1996 TSi AWD Automagic12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G FP Green HTA - 11.42/123 Team Pump Gas and Meth RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts "Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim CarreyLast Login: September 28, 2021
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Re: putting everything together fast but safe.
[Re: Kirk Harding]
#404252
May 30, 2013 03:25 pm UTC
May 30, 2013 03:25 pm UTC
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,342 Canada
Terry S
Insane Member
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Insane Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,342
Canada
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Re: putting everything together fast but safe.
[Re: Kirk Harding]
#404257
May 30, 2013 05:19 pm UTC
May 30, 2013 05:19 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749 Belleville, Ontario
Ryan Laliberte
No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
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No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749
Belleville, Ontario
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Jay, I'm sure it has it's advantages, just like having Velcro shoes vs ones you have to tie. It just all matters on how simple you want to be.
It cannot do everything that ECMLink does. It doesn't take 2 days to dial in your MAF, you just have to know what you are doing.
I've seen Jackal, and it looks exactly like the Direct Access tables in ECMLink. It's good I'm sure, but I see some key disadvantages:
Only goes up to 7000RPMS in Fuel/Timing and 8000 in VE Does not allow you to change what your boost gauge does Will not flash CEL for knock Retard Forces the user to use Open Loop, which can be poorly efficient for fuel economy and emissions. An open loop car will not pass emissions as it will not allow the sensors to ready. That in itself removes about 50% of what ECMLink is able to do (Set thresholds, allow for Min and Max octane tables etc.) You can control a meth system with ECMLink by removing a specific percentage of fuel when the meth turns on. This can also be the same for Nitrous ECMLink allows for antilag.
Oh, LIVE DATALOGGING on a beautiful graphic display without the need to make your own cables...
So don't say it can do everything ECMLink can, because it can't, not even close.
AWDAuto 1996 TSi AWD Automagic12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G FP Green HTA - 11.42/123 Team Pump Gas and Meth RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts "Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim CarreyLast Login: September 28, 2021
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Re: putting everything together fast but safe.
[Re: Guillaume Berton]
#404267
May 30, 2013 07:42 pm UTC
May 30, 2013 07:42 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749 Belleville, Ontario
Ryan Laliberte
No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
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No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749
Belleville, Ontario
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Ecu Flash can, it's cheaper (specially if you sell the cable after and just grab a 1.3 jack to monitor things on evoscan) and can be retrofitted to a 1g Yeah, I was looking at that for our WRX. MMMMMMM tuning..... I don't believe you can do any live datalogging with this software though like you can in ECMLink.
AWDAuto 1996 TSi AWD Automagic12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G FP Green HTA - 11.42/123 Team Pump Gas and Meth RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts "Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim CarreyLast Login: September 28, 2021
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Re: putting everything together fast but safe.
[Re: Kirk Harding]
#404269
May 30, 2013 08:32 pm UTC
May 30, 2013 08:32 pm UTC
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,783 Belleville Ontario
Jay Stacey
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,783
Belleville Ontario
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Ryan welcome to the world of Warewolf! Jackals upgrade! Dsmap came back about 6 or 7 years ago. 10000rpm maps, not extended.. actual 10000rpms 22row maps, for timing and fuel and VE tables x 17 full scale map rows from -29hg to 29psi .. or what ever you set it for. -Can control up to 8 separate injectors banks. -It can flash knock, and control the boost gauge.. but I never look at mine. -open loop is more controllable you can pass a sniffer test easy and since there isnt a dsmap for a 2g, it wouldnt matter for the ready sensors. -You can run high and low octane maps.. I never got into that..And there are threshhlds... all kinds since most of the sensors are ignored for normal driving.. they can be set to change what ever you want them to.. when ever you want them too.. like retard timing when coolant raises past 200* and then shoot some water on to the Intercooler!(example) -and ya, you could control meth and have it adjust fuel and timing around it if you want. I never got into that. But all inputs and outputs that Link can control.. and more.. make it so you can start a 12v coffee maker if you want and have the fuel cut i half while you do it! You need 2 cables vs links 1 cable. which can be made for a few bucks... or you can buy them from the site for.. a few bucks. I think there even working on an BT android system now aswell. I know you can log via MMCD or MMSD via BT android. and it uses the same program. They even have a freescale Map sensor they sell that they claims to be better them the gm sensor. Live datalogging aswell Warewolf also does map tracing aswell as scaling. Its not much diferant then Link any more.. Hey Kirk.. Tell ya what.. Go and buy what you need for the DSMAP set up.. invite all the doubters and a 12 year old to set it up and get it running. If your not happy and running better then you evver were.. in 1 hour.. Ill buy the set up off ya.
Last edited by Jay Stacey; May 30, 2013 08:43 pm UTC.
11.45@125, stock bottom end 6bolt 2g head. 272 hks cams. Holset hx35 Backyard biult!!
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Re: putting everything together fast but safe.
[Re: Jay Stacey]
#404300
May 31, 2013 02:43 am UTC
May 31, 2013 02:43 am UTC
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749 Belleville, Ontario
Ryan Laliberte
No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
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No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749
Belleville, Ontario
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Well then, seems like quite the setup, I wonder why the rest of the DSM world doesn't run it. If it's exactly like ECMLink and can do everything you say it can do at half the price, why do VERY VERY few people use it?
Also, if it's so awesome, why can't it be made for 2G?
AWDAuto 1996 TSi AWD Automagic12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G FP Green HTA - 11.42/123 Team Pump Gas and Meth RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts "Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim CarreyLast Login: September 28, 2021
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