Hey Guys,

So my car comes off the road for the winter this weekend and I wanted everyone's input on good next steps for me to take over the winter. Right now I'm running the following:

- Injen Intake with K&N Filter
- EVO III 16g @ 20 psi
- HKS 272/272 cams
- Walbro 255 (not rewired)
- PTE 880cc injectors
- AFPR
- Dumped O2 housing
- 2.5" downpipe to 3" cat back (with cat)
- DSMlink v2.5
- RTM short route FMIC kit
- Genuine Greddy Type RS BOV

Right now the car is tuned relatively well, my CEL is set to 2 degrees of knock which I barely ever see come on however my tune does run pretty low timing (5 degrees advance at the lowest point up to about 13 degrees at 7000 rpm).

I'd like to take this turbo to its limits next year (40-42 lbs/min of air flow) and am debating what my next mods should be, here are my questions:

- Do I need to replace the HG and Studs? If so which brands would work well?
- Will Meth be necessary for this kind of power?

I'm also planning on switching to an EVO III O2 housing and replacing my MAF as my current unit seems to have some gremlins in it.

Basically I'm looking for general opinions on what has worked for people in the past, and what next steps to take. This car will be driven on the street and taken down the 1/4 mile occasionally. Thanks for the input.

A1's and Felpro 1153-1. Turn up the boost.
Do it once, do it right

You'll need meth or race gas to take it to the limits, which will lift the stock head gasket setup.

This is where RZA should jump in and tell you what SHOULD be done, if he doesn't you might be left with useless information that will make for a 'shitbox' of a DSM...

Bam!! like white on rice...he has spoken

let me guess you were gonna suggest a stupid Saturn Alt?

Yup you go it ! Newbs lol

lol...not quite. I 'm not the one who ever suggested a saturn alt. I just had a shitty rebuilder who ripped me off on my dsm alts thus leading to my eventual switch to the saturn alt.

PS..lets keep this clean

On a side note Chris 11.6@120 mph is what I ran on the evo3 16g with lesser mods than you. Buddy of mine ran 11.2@12X on the evo3 16g in his auto. Both full weight cars at around 30psi.

Build the engine to handle the added boost. Nothing wrong with over building an engine. If you are going push that evo3 to its limits you are going to want a strong hg and studs. You will also want to tweek that tune. You may need meth i dont have an opinion on meth seeing as i have never used it other then to get moisture out of used fuel tanks.

+1 on meth. I had never broken anything in my drivetrain, meth fixed that on the 3rd or 4th tuning pull

Switching to a 1g throttle body and porting the 2g intake mani to match will open the flow up a little more.

Winter would be the perfect time to upgrade to ecmlink V3 and go to speed density, considering you're thinking of replacing your maf anyway.

I hope to redo my tint as its peeling off, thats it for me

Thanks for the input guys, where's the best place to pick up the A1's for a 7-Bolt? I don't see them available on RTM.

Removing the head seems daunting to me, I was taking a look tonight and it seems like ALOT of components have to come off, is there anyone around the Peterborough area the would be willing to come down and lend a hand in the coming months? Of course, cold compensation would be provided!

You could just swap out the studs.. Without removing the head.. If you want to. Id just upgrade the turbo myself. Yoi could run the 16g to its max.. add some meth and run a high 11 .. Maybe.. Or you could buy a large frame turbo like a holset or a gt30r and run 11s no prob with out stressing it out. My 20g is almost maxed at 46lbs and im running high 12s. Course I still have some work to do...and that darn saturn alt may be slowing me down.

Pulling your engine in half may seem a bit intimidating your first time, but it really isn't that difficult. There are plenty of good how-to's on the web, and your service manual is your friend.

The other thing you'll want is ziplock bags and a permanent marker. When you pull something off, bag it and tag it

I don't get it... the 16G is capable of great power. It's not broken.

Why is he buying a new turbo again?

those cooling fins is just too much aero drag for your crank

Because you can't make big power on a little turbo. Come on Jeremy smarten up.

its real stressfull and complicated to make big power on a little turbo.. If changing a head seems daunting, then running low 11s on a 16g turbo may not be the right path. At least the bigger turbo will make power easier and more fogiveing.

Try as I might, I am finding it quite impossible to see where Chris said anything about running low 11s.

He said he wants to run his 16G to its max. You tell him in order to do that he needs a new turbo. It just confuses me is all.

Its was reza... Who said 11s. I just suggested what mod I would do if i were him. And suggesting why a large turbo would be better. Wether he wants 11s or 13s.

I'd like to get all I can out of the Evo III before upgrading, any more lag and I feel as though the car would not be as fun on the street (remember I'm also running 272/272 cams which take a bit out of the low end).

I've seen a lot of success stories of guys running 25+ psi on the E3 so I'd like to go that route.

Re-wire the 255 when you install it. If you go SD, skip the Greddy BOV & go with a Tial (by far the best BOV I've owned). V3 Link is far superior to V2.5. I'd skip the PTE injectors, in the past their flow was over rated slightly. Look at FIC, & if your doing it & think you may ever go larger then an evoIII, go bigger, so you don't have to do it again. FIC 1050's would be a good choice. HKS are tried and true but I'd say their are now better options that are actually a bit cheaper, Kelford or GSC make some top notch cams.

It's a good route man. A few tweeks to the tune and you will be happy. No reason to have a big laggy turbo for the street.

Whatever... They just dont like me lol... Holsets and ballbearing turbos will spool fast enough for the street. There are many larger turbos spooling almost as fast as the evo16g and make way more power. But if yer gonna stick with the 16g then you should be able to max it out with what you have. Im at 46lbs with 950cc injectors and only 70%duty on my injectors. I would upgrade the studs tho.. Maybe upgrade to v3 and then consontraite on making the motor and drivetrain stronger

I bet a 30 psi pull on my FP Red would change your opinion

GEEZ, he's not going to stress out his 16g running it to the max. I ran mid to high 11's on the 16g day in and day out, back to back passes on a completely stock motor, with no "stress" on the 16g AT ALL! On 16 psi with a side mount intercooler and 16g I ran mid 12's.

Anyways he's asking how to max out his current setup. I'm with Jeremy here You don't need a 20g to run 11's, lol. Get a good headgasket setup and turn up the boost. Have fun. Stay on this path and you won't end up with big turbo highly modified, built motor DSM that clicks off 12's in the 1/4

I'd rather have a 16g high 11 second car than a big turbo high 11 second car. Your not going to kill your 16g running 30 psi and you can do this all day for years over and over and for hundreds of thousand of km's. I am living proof of this

If anyone here wants to prove me wrong, prove it with some facts, not some cry baby sh!t.

I figured, might as well put up some threads from the past. Enjoy!

http://www.ca.dsm.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=244411&page=1

http://www.ca.dsm.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=229171&page=1

http://www.ca.dsm.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=247314&page=1

http://www.ca.dsm.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=252320#Post252320

Agreed. Listen to tried, tested and true Mr Reza there.
Don't turn into me and overcomplicate the F*&k out of things...

The best times I had with my dsm, was rocking a boost controller at the track and clicking 13.3's all day long in a full weight near stock car with bald tires... coulda been a bracket car...

As we say at work, Keep it simple stupid

So Reza based on what your setup was with the 650s and meth would I assume you would recommend someone go with meth before putting that turbo to rest.
I have always said that when I am struggling to get anything more from the 16g that I would put meth on and see what she can do.
Also is the fact that I always run 91 going to make a huge difference on what I can get out of the turbo? or would it mean i just need more meth

I think I was running a single M10 nozzle with the 16g at 30 psi.
An M7 should even do the job to push the turbo upto 30 psi.

Race gas will also let you run the same amount of boost without meth. I'd probably go with meth injection as a kit will run you what it costs for two tanks of C16 End result is pretty much the same.

I had the 650's maxed out with the meth injection. If you plan to keep it on 91 octane, add more meth and it should do the job. There is a guy in the US, Lancerman who was running 10's on pump gas (91 octane) and meth injection, before most of the DSM world even had a clue.

Cool!! I have 1000s so hopefully they won't be too close to maxed out.
Will start to look at meth kits in a little while.
Thanks

My 780s aren't maxed yet with my FP Green running 25psi, and only an M5 nozzle for meth. Your 1000s will last you a long time, Bryan.

suspension bushings?

I run FIC 1050's, w/meth (M10 or M12 can't remember on the 150psi pump). At 60lb/min I'm around 70% IDC.

Good to know boys!! Thanks!

And that silly kent bought 2150cc wheres he gonna go.


I'd say L19 or A1's for sure. And turn up the boost. I was hogging 39-41Lbs on my 16g not long ago before i retired it.

I guess the reason i suggest a big turbo is cause I have the smallest turbo in my group. And even the br20g holding 26psi up to and past 7000rpms.. Feels like nothing compared to the other local guys with there big turbos.

Its funny tho.... When you have a N/A motor and you boost it. You use a huge turbo and max out the engine. But when you have a boosted car, you have a very potential engine... But only max out the turbo. (Or limit yourself to what the turbo will give ya) You rarely ever see small turbos like 16gs on NA cars cause itsvway easier to make more power at safer lower boost levels with big turbos. You will make he same power running 20 psi on a holset compared to running 30psi on a 16g.

With that theory you might as well slap on a GT4202r and run 15psi to make the same power.

What you are forgetting is the spool time. I was seeing 20 psi by 3000 rpm on the 16g. A holset or 20g won't do that. At the end of the day its all about how much cylinder pressure you are creating. For a certain goal I would take the quickest spooling turbo. This is why my HTA3586 is in a DSM housing. A quicker spooling car is more fun to drive.

Otherwise, I'd be like every other Honda dude out there who has to have a big turbo GT35R on their car and only run 9 psi of boost. If I was NA and FWD sure I'd go bigger turbo as a quicker spooling turbo will just make you fry the wheels more. We own AWD DSM's, not NA FWD cars.

Bingo.

Don't get me wrong; I love my FP Green. But if it hadn't come with the car, I would be running a smaller turbo. The power it makes is impressive, but at 25psi, I could be making this power on a smaller turbo. And then I might not have to downshift every time I want to accelerate.

Exactly. My current setup will not even spoolup in 5th gear. Well it does a little. On the 16g, I never had to downshift to 4th gear on the highway at all unless required. 5th gear WOT pulls from any rpm and the car would just fly.

So is it even worth it for me to switch to the FP 68HTA, HX35 or just spend that extra money on a worthwhile meth kit and keep my low km E316G?

PS. sorry to hijack I've just been battling with this for some time now and would like real world advice.