problems with built engine.
#422566
February 25, 2014 01:20 am UTC
February 25, 2014 01:20 am UTC
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 568 Toronto
Dave Hermenegildo
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 568
Toronto
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I have a 95 talon esi which I boosted with stock motor running at 8psi and had it that way for about 7 years. I finally decided to get the engine built with forged piston and stronger rod etc. Motor is built and installed it in the car. My first initial start up was good. Used engine break in oil to ran the car, bled the coolant, fans came on and it was good, let it idle for about 1 hour or so and had to shut her down because it was already late. The next day I drained the break in oil and put in regular 5-30 synthetic oil started the car and it was good and was letting it idle for about 10mins. Then all of a sudden the car starts to sputter and tons of smoke coming out the exhaust (that heavy lingering smoke) so I shut off the car. Let it cool down tried started it up again and the same thing.
I performed a compression test and readings were 30-215-215-215. I put a cap of oil into the cylinder 1 and the pressure went up to 50psi not much of a difference. So decided to do a leak down test on cylinder 1. I add the pressure to the cylinder and there is no leaks the pressure is holding perfect. Rotate the crank and reset and try the test again and again no leak. I decided to try the compression test again. This time during the compression test while cranking it wasn't creating much pressure again then i heard a pop sound and the compression went up to 215psi. So i tried the test again and back to 30psi.
I'm really confused here and not sure what the problem is. I'm thinking the problem might be the head and that the exhaust valve isn't seating properly. Forgot to mention that when i pulled out the spark plug it was completely clean and when looking down the plug hole i can see the piston face was clean as well compared to the other plugs and piston faces.
Need some help and hear what you guys think as i don't want to redo the head and its not a head problem. Sorry for the long story. Thanks, Dave.
95 ESi-T it's slow, but now a little faster 96 Spyder GST -SOLD
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Re: problems with built engine.
[Re: Dave Hermenegildo]
#422573
February 25, 2014 11:01 am UTC
February 25, 2014 11:01 am UTC
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 568 Toronto
Dave Hermenegildo
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I pulled off the vc didnt see anything visually damaged. I went as far as removing the hydrulic lifter, rebleeding them and switching cylinder 1 lifters with cylinder 4 to see if anything would change. I bought the engine built never used. The head is from a 2.0. The the engine has supertech valves and valve springs with pt cruiser lifters, rocker arms and crower stage 1 cams. No idea what the piston clearence is or ring to wall gap. Wiseco 8.8:1 pistons.
95 ESi-T it's slow, but now a little faster 96 Spyder GST -SOLD
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Re: problems with built engine.
[Re: John MacPhail]
#422580
February 25, 2014 05:32 pm UTC
February 25, 2014 05:32 pm UTC
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398
Ajax, ON
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an hour idle time hurts nothing but finds leaks and problems . FAIL. I would never want that engine after the one hour of idle time. I can't even count how many times I have seen people do this and just completely fail with DSM's all together. If your putting in a fresh motor, other than maybe a hose clamp being loose, everything else should be good to go. I actually add oil into my motor on the stand, prime it, check for leaks, then drop it into the car. The cooling system is very simple in a DSM. If you find your engine pissing coolant from everywhere on your fresh motor, shut it off and seek a professional who knows what they are doing Might be a good idea to add the coolant in and check for leaks before you even start it. Moral of the story is, do not idle your freshly started engine.
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Re: problems with built engine.
[Re: Dave Hermenegildo]
#422595
February 25, 2014 09:42 pm UTC
February 25, 2014 09:42 pm UTC
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 568 Toronto
Dave Hermenegildo
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I can rotate it by hand and i dont feel any resistance, nothing looks out of place when rotating the crank by hand when comparing to the other valves lifters and rocker arms. I've put many freshly built motors together and never had a issue from letting them idle. I've never heard that you should never let a freshly built motor idle. Serious question How would idling it damage it and putting load on it right away won't?
95 ESi-T it's slow, but now a little faster 96 Spyder GST -SOLD
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Re: problems with built engine.
[Re: Dave Hermenegildo]
#422596
February 25, 2014 09:55 pm UTC
February 25, 2014 09:55 pm UTC
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398
Ajax, ON
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Do a google search on how you should break in a motor and that will give you your answer. You say you have built a few motors, but yet I am surprised that your even asking how idling would damage it and putting load on it right away won't. Idling the motor is just going to cause the rings to not seat, compression to stay lower, and the motor to burn oil for a long long time. My current motor was broken in at 35 psi within 20 minutes of the first start. You are only breaking in the rings in the motor. If the motor was built correctly it should be able to go full out race immediately. Either way if it was me, I would already start pulling that motor out
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Re: problems with built engine.
[Re: Dave Hermenegildo]
#422597
February 25, 2014 10:10 pm UTC
February 25, 2014 10:10 pm UTC
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398
Ajax, ON
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I would take the car out, put some real boost to it, come back and recheck compression.
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Re: problems with built engine.
[Re: Reza Mirza]
#422608
February 26, 2014 02:04 am UTC
February 26, 2014 02:04 am UTC
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 398 Charlottetown PEI
John MacPhail
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 398
Charlottetown PEI
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Wow! guess I have been lucky didn't know a little idle time glazed cylinders and ruined engines. I stand corrected! an hour idle time hurts nothing but finds leaks and problems . FAIL. I would never want that engine after the one hour of idle time. I can't even count how many times I have seen people do this and just completely fail with DSM's all together. If your putting in a fresh motor, other than maybe a hose clamp being loose, everything else should be good to go. I actually add oil into my motor on the stand, prime it, check for leaks, then drop it into the car. The cooling system is very simple in a DSM. If you find your engine pissing coolant from everywhere on your fresh motor, shut it off and seek a professional who knows what they are doing Might be a good idea to add the coolant in and check for leaks before you even start it. Moral of the story is, do not idle your freshly started engine.
Dinosaurs evolved and learned to fly This Dinosaur is evolving and learning to DSM
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Re: problems with built engine.
[Re: John MacPhail]
#422611
February 26, 2014 02:15 pm UTC
February 26, 2014 02:15 pm UTC
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398
Ajax, ON
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Wow! guess I have been lucky didn't know a little idle time glazed cylinders and ruined engines. I stand corrected! It's not like the engine is going to grenade from idling it. It will still run and sound fine. It just won't be anything special either IMO. I watched a couple of buddies go through the same thing with Steve Kinnaird's old 1g DSM over the winter. The first rebuilt motor that went into the car sat around idling and just got started over and over again while they tried to figure out little issues. Well that didn't last too long and the motor was out of the car in no time to get re-ringed (just to blow up again, but that is a different story). These guys are my good friends. I try to preach to them to pound on the motor asap in order to break it in, but even they do not get the concept Here's some food for thought. A girl here at work used to work in the engine dyno room at the Toyota plant. She told me how she revved up each motor to 10,000 rpm under certain load and control conditions in order to break them in, then they were dropped into the vehicles. Quite the opposite of having it just idle around
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Re: problems with built engine.
[Re: Dave Hermenegildo]
#422613
February 26, 2014 03:15 pm UTC
February 26, 2014 03:15 pm UTC
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 568 Toronto
Dave Hermenegildo
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Alright I guess now I know and knowing is half the battle. yo joe.
Seem like everyone is agreeing that its the piston rings that is causing the problem. Going to pull out the engine and get it re-ringed and get the machine shop to give the whole engine another look through to make sure all the clearences are good.
95 ESi-T it's slow, but now a little faster 96 Spyder GST -SOLD
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