So I'm basically testing the drop across pins 3 and 4 of the relay while cranking?

To test the relay yes. To test the the whole circuit you have to start at the power source and ground. Then you can divide the circuit it there is a drop.


HAVE YOU CONFIRMED THAT 210RPM IS TOO LOW FOR A 2g. Maybe someone with link can check for you.

I would try to jump the starter straight with Battery and wires and see if its any better.

My earlier quote of 350-400 rpm may have been a bit high, but when Chris came by on Tuesday to grab the starter, I fired up my car and he said the cranking was noticeably faster. He had a video of his car cranking, which I thought was noticeably slower.

Unfortunately I probably won't have time to grab a log of my car starting until the weekend.

I haven't had a confirmation from someone with link that 210rpm is indeed too low so if anyone is willing to take a log of cranking their car over with the ignition unplugged that would be very helpful. If you look at the videos posted above you can listen to the engine as it turns over, it sounds laboured.

Deep, I like your suggestion but I think it would be just about impossible to try to fit a jumper cable under the manifold to connect it to the starter, is there a trick to do this?

Stephen, I'm just a little confused on how to check the drop on the whole circuit. I would place one lead on the starter ground but where would the other lead go?

From the diagram. The ignition switch.

I'll get it done after I get home today (if no one beat me to it).

Thanks Alex, much appreciated.

I'll take a video of my startup if you want to see. But won't happen until closer to 8pm.

that'd be great Mike, even better if you can pull your ignition plug to replicate my video for comparison.

Sure. I'll do it today.

So how do I post a video?

upload to youtube and then link it here.

You make it sound easy...


Ok, I'll try that lol

Did you log your cranking rpm Mike?

Watch "'99 GSX startup" on YouTube
'99 GSX startup: http://youtu.be/df9cEF9oQys

Tell me if that works, first time ever uploading a video lol

Logging it says 210-220 rpm

Mostly 220 though. With the ignition disconnected.

Any other 2g owners seeing more then 220rpm cranking?!?!? Might be normal......

I watched and listened to your videos, sounds like lack of spark or fuel to me.

Its not a no start.... its a slow crank. It has always started.

Oh.. That explains that.

Sorry I didn't read through every message posted. Bad habit lately.

Anyway, the 220 rpm sounds normal to me.

Yay mike you got it figured, see that wasn't so hard!

Interesting, if you guys have a listen to the difference between me and Mike's videos though do you not agree his sounds quite different?

My car is one long droning sound while mike's has distinct "chugs" for lack of a better word. It's hard to describe but it just sounds like something is wrong when my car is turning over and that seems to be confirmed when it doesn't start.

I can take another video of it starting with the camera pointed at the engine bay. Gf just got home so she can help lol

Thanks for simplifying it Bryan. I'm going to start using this a lot more now

Mike, if you could get a video of the engine cranking with the ignition plugged in that would be even better, so that the car doesn't start.

Too late, the gf has no clue what I'm trying to do and I forgot to unplug the ignition..

For what it's worth, 4 seconds of turning over.
Watch "'99 GSX startup 2" on YouTube
'99 GSX startup 2: http://youtu.be/aaOAVHGL4ts

Could try it again. Let me see if I can muster the energy.

From your videos your starter sounds fine. At the end of the second vid it sounded like the cylinders were getting washed and you were getting a bit of compression loss. Which is normal if the injectors are firing but spark isnt. Can you post a video of it actually cranking and starting?

Okay I just went back into my tune because something wasn't sitting right with me. I don't actually have logs of the car starting. However, my ECU only considers my car to be "cranking" once it gets over 300RPM....

20 year, 200,000km old OEM starter on 8.5:1 compression. And there is a noticeable difference in cranking speed between my car and Chris'.

Guess I'm missing something.

Maybe his Rotating mass is heavier. But from the videos it doesnt sound that slow to me. But it is just a video and I dont have much to compare it to.

Well that was carried over from my stock rotating assembly, but no I'm just still slightly AEM retarded.

It enters cranking once it's at 50RPM (which kinda makes more sense..), and leaves it at 400. So I'll have to get a log to see exactly where it's at. But maybe I'll go get my starter in my 2g and we can start them side by side, one after the other

That's a good point, I have a Fidanza flywheel.

Finally test results came in:
My starter is new OEM with about 20k on it. New positive and negative wiring to starter. Negative is wired to started bolt. 2 year old Canadian tire battery. 96TSI awd




Test 1: Normal start



Battery dropped from 11.9v to 10.8
Average cranking speed 215-225 RPM
Engine temp 26c and started within 0.9 secs

Test 2: Continuous crank
Injectors off
Throttle position 100%


Battery dropped from 11.9v to 10.8
Average cranking speed 220-235 RPM
Engine temp 31c

Test 3: Continuous crank
Injectors off
Throttle position 0%



Battery dropped from 11.9v to 10.8
Average cranking speed 225-235 RPM
Engine temp 31c

Wow, that's intriguing work with the screen shots.

So based on your findings, my car, your car, are normal.

Thanks so much Alex, that's fantastic info.

So it appears I'm just slightly below the mark afterall, I guess I'll continue to chase these hard starting problems because it looks like my starter system is running at a reasonable speed.

I'll try jumping the starter straight from the battery today and see what kind of results I get.

Glad to help