Fracked Global
#434086
October 15, 2014 10:31 pm UTC
October 15, 2014 10:31 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
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Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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My global is absolutely retarded and I have done so much to try and figure out what might be causing it. I have followed the guide of how to tune a 1g SD without a MAF and this is where I got. Any guidance is greatly appreciated!! https://www.dropbox.com/s/rcql60tjvb0lvp4/log.2014.10.15-06.elg?dl=0
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#434087
October 15, 2014 11:23 pm UTC
October 15, 2014 11:23 pm UTC
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503 Trenton, On, Canada.
Ghislain Goudreau
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503
Trenton, On, Canada.
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Hello Bryan
Talk to me "Goose". What Injectors are you using and what is your Base Fuel Pressure at???
I did a quick review and you need to adjust your DT.
I have been using SD for a few years and could help you but we have to start with the basic.
Sorry if I ask this question but willing to help.
Ghislain
Rouge!!!
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#434093
October 16, 2014 01:37 am UTC
October 16, 2014 01:37 am UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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OP
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Joined: Oct 2010
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Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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Thanks Ghis, the injectors are RC 1000s, I had them flow tested and they were rated at 930cc. Base fuel pressure is at 37.5, and now realized I had planned to bump it to 43.5 before I left but forgot. Also should not I am running 91.
From what I had read my DT should be around 440, so I usually start around there (this is the third time I have done this) and my STFT usually zeroes out just under 100.
Appreciate the help, I am tempted to pick up some injectors from someone who has been running them and knows the stats so I can confirm that it's not the injectors or is.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#434097
October 16, 2014 01:51 am UTC
October 16, 2014 01:51 am UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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I did, and my dead time ends up in the same place. When I start off at 440 my STFT is usually in the high teens, and doesn't get around 0 till under 100.
My global is where it is from doing WOT runs and running super lean.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#434102
October 16, 2014 03:08 am UTC
October 16, 2014 03:08 am UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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Like my expect estafr is 9.3 and I am running low 12
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#434115
October 16, 2014 05:33 pm UTC
October 16, 2014 05:33 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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Yeah exactly, everything feels good but the numbers are just not matching in the global fuel and dead time
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#434120
October 16, 2014 07:13 pm UTC
October 16, 2014 07:13 pm UTC
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503 Trenton, On, Canada.
Ghislain Goudreau
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503
Trenton, On, Canada.
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Try this;
First I would suggest that you return your SD Table to their original values.
Then input anywhere from 380 and 440 of DT and -52 of Global. That is where things "should be". Idle till operating temp then observe your AirFlow/Rev and adjust the Global only till you get about .25 AirFlow/Rev.
From there you could tweak your DT a bit but I recommend not to for the purpose of this exercise. If you still decide to change your DT by a bit make sure you do not change it by much; do not alter the SD while you are doing this initial set up. Consider these set up as your initial and from there do not change them. Changing them will make you alter your SD Table to compensate, then initial set up will have to be altered. You will get in that vicious cycle that most of us get into.
Once the AirFlow/Rev is where you are satisfied go for a drive and ONLY alter the SD Table using the Wizzard; SD VE Adjust (CombinedFT). Start by driving the car very slow through 30, 40, 50 km and on. That will help you to correct the SD Table for your set up. WOT once you are satisfied with the LTFT Lo and Mid.
Again do not alter your initial set up after you have chosen values that give you an Idle with cycling o2 signal and .025 of AirFlow/Rev.
Hope this helps.
Ghislain
Rouge!!!
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#434121
October 16, 2014 07:26 pm UTC
October 16, 2014 07:26 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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Thanks Ghis, I will give this way a try once we return from vacation, this is definitely different than I have typically done it so hopefully will have some more luck.
Ghis, what if my STFT is -15 like it has been still leave the deadtime?
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#434125
October 16, 2014 08:11 pm UTC
October 16, 2014 08:11 pm UTC
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503 Trenton, On, Canada.
Ghislain Goudreau
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503
Trenton, On, Canada.
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I would also suggest that you reset your FT after you Idle the Car.
Every set up is different and I would not expect my suggestion to yield a -15 STFT. If that is the case we'll look into it and go from there.
I know that you have been here for a while and that you are no "Spring Chicken" but think that starting from scratch using basic set up will either yield good results or will point toward a certain direction.
Again; use this as a basic exercise. We more than often go into a complex direction when the solution is simple.
Enjoy your vacation.
Ghislain
Rouge!!!
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Jason Drew]
#434126
October 16, 2014 08:23 pm UTC
October 16, 2014 08:23 pm UTC
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,669 Toronto, Ontario
Stephan Tanchak
Insane Member
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Insane Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,669
Toronto, Ontario
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This here is where I learned to to do it. It's basic, but has yet to fail me.
1998 Eclipse GSX Spyder 11.5@124 AWD Talons: 1992, 1993, 1997, 1998
Team Big Turbo
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Stephan Tanchak]
#434127
October 16, 2014 08:28 pm UTC
October 16, 2014 08:28 pm UTC
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503 Trenton, On, Canada.
Ghislain Goudreau
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503
Trenton, On, Canada.
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This here is where I learned to to do it. It's basic, but has yet to fail me. Pretty much what I'm suggesting. We'll nail this!!! Ghisain
Rouge!!!
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#434146
October 16, 2014 11:56 pm UTC
October 16, 2014 11:56 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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I was following the guide that Jason has posted. Set what you think it should be, let the car warm and idle, then adjust deadtime to get STFT close to zero. The when WOT I used global to line up my est afr with my afr
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#434153
October 17, 2014 12:26 am UTC
October 17, 2014 12:26 am UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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well looks like I will be adjusting my theory, maybe this why I struggle so much.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#434157
October 17, 2014 12:49 am UTC
October 17, 2014 12:49 am UTC
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503 Trenton, On, Canada.
Ghislain Goudreau
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503
Trenton, On, Canada.
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Different way to adjust but what I'm suggesting is to find a Global and DT that works. Adjust the SD Table to match the targeted AF and then adjust the Timing so it does not knock.
Jumping back and forth makes you chase your tail.
Ghislain
Rouge!!!
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#434161
October 17, 2014 01:14 am UTC
October 17, 2014 01:14 am UTC
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503 Trenton, On, Canada.
Ghislain Goudreau
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503
Trenton, On, Canada.
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Yes Global and DT as initial or base settings. Second would be to use the "Wizzard" to tailor the SD Table for LTFT LO and Mid at first, then do WOT.
My suggestion is to find what works for him at first and do WOT later.
Ghislain
Rouge!!!
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Stephan Tanchak]
#434167
October 17, 2014 02:27 am UTC
October 17, 2014 02:27 am UTC
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,783 Belleville Ontario
Jay Stacey
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Posts: 4,783
Belleville Ontario
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The wizard inside ecmlink is borderline retarded though. Stephan, the "wizard" is what was making me change my idle and criuse cells to high 70's! remember the car is using more then 1 cell all the time anyway, varing an average of what ever cells it is, was and could be using.. so its not that percise. This is why Im going back to Maf. Ill make just as much power, with half the effort. plus the wizard works much better with the Mafadjust. But My tuning formula was.. Set Global and dead times for your idle and tip in. and sorta let the wizard deal with cruise(where i was having issues) then once you can drive around smoothly, thenn work on WOT I use the formula New VE = Old VE(Current AFR / Desired AFR) for WOT. I set my MAxoctane a little rich, tune my VE table till my Afr and aAFR est are matching in my logs.. then lean out and add timing for more power.
Last edited by Jay Stacey; October 17, 2014 02:32 am UTC.
11.45@125, stock bottom end 6bolt 2g head. 272 hks cams. Holset hx35 Backyard biult!!
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#434168
October 17, 2014 02:36 am UTC
October 17, 2014 02:36 am UTC
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503 Trenton, On, Canada.
Ghislain Goudreau
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503
Trenton, On, Canada.
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Wizard works but one need to smooth "near" cells.
Again; the suggestion is basic and simple. Lets not guide him through 1000 different directions.
Also; lets take WOT out of this topic at the moment.
Ghislain
Rouge!!!
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#434169
October 17, 2014 02:52 am UTC
October 17, 2014 02:52 am UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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Yeah agreed with Ghis, I need to focus on my base tune first and then once I get that figured and good then we can discuss WOT.
And Stephen I agree I think I was just off on my understanding which would explain my frustration, hopefully this approach will give me some good results.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#434199
October 18, 2014 04:56 pm UTC
October 18, 2014 04:56 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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That's the one thing I want to log and am not logging right now. I think I may pick up a pressure sending unit and log it so I can confirm that pressure is rising correctly. Fuel pressure kind of holds after it is off usually holds at 5 or 10psi, I may need to crack open my fuel filter and see if the filter need to be cleaned.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#434426
October 27, 2014 09:31 pm UTC
October 27, 2014 09:31 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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Well I went with what you had suggested ghislain and I was at about -37 by the time I was sitting at 25.
So either these injectors are a piece of sh!t and somehow they didn't catch that when they were tested. Or I have a top secret air leak that seems to be impossible to find.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#434445
October 28, 2014 01:48 am UTC
October 28, 2014 01:48 am UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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Global to that, and my AFR was sitting at 11 the whole time.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#434450
October 28, 2014 02:54 am UTC
October 28, 2014 02:54 am UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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Ok will try that tomorrow, what if she is still idling pig rich after i do that?
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Fracked Global
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#434456
October 28, 2014 10:32 am UTC
October 28, 2014 10:32 am UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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Haha Terry, starting to look like a good idea!
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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