Project: Daunting Task
#442857
August 29, 2015 10:14 pm UTC
August 29, 2015 10:14 pm UTC
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Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 256 Olds, Alberta, Canada
Cody M. Dyck
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OP
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Posts: 256
Olds, Alberta, Canada
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It's been a while since I've built a DSM, I've tried getting back into it a couple times and it never really worked out. So here is attempt #13 at building a fast DSM. First of all this car has sat since 2003 (12 years) and when it was parked it did not run. It has sat quietly in my friends pool house (converted into a shop), last week we made a deal and now the car is in my garage and I have started the rebuild. So far this week I have just being stripping the car down and cleaning it up, organizing the boxes of parts that I was given and making a plan. The 7 bolt that is in it is coming out and a 2.4 is going in but everything will need to be changed, all belts, fluids, O-rings, etc. The brakes don't work at all which is scary, the wiring has been messed with in ways that I don't want to think about. My plan is to try to make everything as simple as possible, first I strip the car down and then I slowly build it back up. Here are some pictures. Seeing light for the first time since 2003. The car had so much dust on it and no brakes so moving it was daunting. This is the car firmly secured in the trailer, just loading up the boxes of random parts. This is the 2.4l that will eventually power this car. The Talon finally in my garage and facing the right direction, doing this took 10 hours thanks to no brakes and me by myself. The current 7 bolt engine that is in the car and the random wires and probes that I will have to deal with.
Black 4G63t BMW E30
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Re: Project: Daunting Task
[Re: Cody M. Dyck]
#442890
August 31, 2015 01:52 pm UTC
August 31, 2015 01:52 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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Looking forward to watching this too!!
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Project: Daunting Task
[Re: Michael Lee]
#442925
September 01, 2015 01:30 am UTC
September 01, 2015 01:30 am UTC
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Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 256 Olds, Alberta, Canada
Cody M. Dyck
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Olds, Alberta, Canada
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I completely understand that taking things apart is the simple part but getting this engine out without any real difficulty felt good. My next couple of tasks off the top of my head: - Clean things up and remove all of the non-essential items, especially all of the aftermarket stereo wiring. - Pull the transmission from the 7 bolt. - Pull whatever ECU is currently in the car. - Pull any aftermarket alarms or car starters. - Get the brakes to work. Subsribed! Good luck with the project & please keep us posted fresh pics and progress status. Hopefully she is all up and running for next season starting April. Looks like a nice work space you got there! This should be fun to watch Looking forward to watching this too!! Likewise, should be interesting. Looks like a nice shop/garage you have there too! Make it happen!
Looks like a fun project! Thanks guys.
Last edited by Cody M. Dyck; September 01, 2015 01:32 am UTC.
Black 4G63t BMW E30
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Re: Project: Daunting Task
[Re: Mike Eng]
#442988
September 02, 2015 06:19 pm UTC
September 02, 2015 06:19 pm UTC
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Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 256 Olds, Alberta, Canada
Cody M. Dyck
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Posts: 256
Olds, Alberta, Canada
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I'm selling the AEM ECU and Ignition Module that came in the parts box and the Vipec ECU. I'd like to run DSMLink as I assume it's easier to use than the AEM or Vipec. Any thoughts? That's a hell of a shop you've got there!
Also subscribed.
Keep up the good work. You're moving right along! Thanks Mike.
Black 4G63t BMW E30
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Re: Project: Daunting Task
[Re: Cody M. Dyck]
#443303
September 11, 2015 04:06 am UTC
September 11, 2015 04:06 am UTC
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Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 256 Olds, Alberta, Canada
Cody M. Dyck
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Olds, Alberta, Canada
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So the car is now stripped down to the basics, I still have a lot of concerns over the wiring harness and the "modifications" that have been done to it. My next step is trying to find an ECU, the problem is the engine is a Frankenstein of various parts that I have no idea the source of, can I just buy a 1991-1994 ECU and then make everything work off of that? My plan is to run DSMLink.
Black 4G63t BMW E30
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Re: Project: Daunting Task
[Re: Cody M. Dyck]
#443307
September 11, 2015 01:18 pm UTC
September 11, 2015 01:18 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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Yeah that should work fine. You will have to see how everything look on link once you get it all setup.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Project: Daunting Task
[Re: Cody M. Dyck]
#443811
September 24, 2015 10:05 pm UTC
September 24, 2015 10:05 pm UTC
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Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 256 Olds, Alberta, Canada
Cody M. Dyck
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I have barely stopped working on this car. I bought a running parts car, I pulled the engine and ECU and put them into the black Talon and it will not start. So I put the engine and ECU back into the parts car to make sure I hadn't messed anything up and now the parts car won't start. The engine doesn't even crank. On the ECU connector C-59 the ignition switch input (108) gets 12v when I turn the key but the starter signal wire gets no voltage whatsoever. What is between the ignition switch wire on the ECU and the starter signal wire?
Black 4G63t BMW E30
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Re: Project: Daunting Task
[Re: Cody M. Dyck]
#443824
September 25, 2015 01:58 pm UTC
September 25, 2015 01:58 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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Hopefully someone has the 2g FSM and can post it cause the wiring diagram will tell you the answer to that question.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Project: Daunting Task
[Re: Cody M. Dyck]
#443874
September 26, 2015 05:46 am UTC
September 26, 2015 05:46 am UTC
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Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 256 Olds, Alberta, Canada
Cody M. Dyck
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Olds, Alberta, Canada
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Thanks for the ideas. I had bypassed the neutral safety switch by unplugging it. I will test the starter relay next though.
Black 4G63t BMW E30
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Re: Project: Daunting Task
[Re: Garret Sliva]
#444043
October 02, 2015 11:49 pm UTC
October 02, 2015 11:49 pm UTC
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Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 256 Olds, Alberta, Canada
Cody M. Dyck
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OP
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Olds, Alberta, Canada
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Haha well I am glad to see that you got it figured out. Sometimes its those kinds of things that can go on for weeks until you find it, and you would never think that it would be something like that. The nice thing about this car is that it is all apart so I can literally follow the wires and see where the disconnect is. Today was a scary day, I don't know if this is from a long time ago or from today. The tank had been empty until I filled it today, I'm amazed I didn't burn down my house.
Black 4G63t BMW E30
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Re: Project: Daunting Task
[Re: Cody M. Dyck]
#444045
October 03, 2015 01:45 am UTC
October 03, 2015 01:45 am UTC
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Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 256 Olds, Alberta, Canada
Cody M. Dyck
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Yes, it had been rewired. I put it back to stock this morning as I am trying to eliminate the previous owners poor wiring. I still could not get fuel to the engine so I pulled the pump and found this mess.
Last edited by Cody M. Dyck; October 03, 2015 01:46 am UTC.
Black 4G63t BMW E30
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Re: Project: Daunting Task
[Re: Garret Sliva]
#444494
October 22, 2015 08:26 pm UTC
October 22, 2015 08:26 pm UTC
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Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 256 Olds, Alberta, Canada
Cody M. Dyck
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Well after a lot of time and work I finally got the car to run. I had to extend the fuel pump wiring because one of the harnesses I used is from a FWD and the pump is closer to the front of the car. I ended up changing all three harnesses over so I had fresh wiring instead of the hacked up job of the owner. One question I do have is how many different engine mount configurations are there, the mounts I took off the other engines don't fit this engine, it's a mess. Video of it starting, running then me shutting it off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLG1n30R9p4
Black 4G63t BMW E30
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Re: Project: Daunting Task
[Re: Salomon Ponte]
#445460
December 08, 2015 06:00 pm UTC
December 08, 2015 06:00 pm UTC
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Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 256 Olds, Alberta, Canada
Cody M. Dyck
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Olds, Alberta, Canada
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A little bit since I updated this but I've since got the 2.4l to run in the car, I fixed the brakes and the car now runs and drives. I have returned it to it's owner and picked up another Talon to play with. I haven't looked over it to see how bad everything is but it was once owned by the same guy as the black one so I am a little worried about the wiring. It has a crazy custom sub and speaker setup, I feel bad for taking it out but it won't have a stereo so subs don't really work, haha. I want to convert the steering rack to a 1.8l manual rack, just have to find one.
Black 4G63t BMW E30
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Re: Project: Daunting Task
[Re: Cody M. Dyck]
#445750
December 29, 2015 11:40 am UTC
December 29, 2015 11:40 am UTC
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Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 256 Olds, Alberta, Canada
Cody M. Dyck
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So I couldn't get motivated to build the red Talon after the large amount of work that I put into the black Talon. I've decided to change my plans to build a RWD 4G63 powered BMW E30. I know I can get the engine to run so the largest concern for me is the motor mounts and connecting the engine to the driveline. I picked up a clean 1988 E30 Coupe that I drove into the garage: Perfectly fine running BMW M20 engine out: Mustang T5 transmission has been bought, I had to take measurements of the output shaft and sent them to a guy in the states who will build me my bell housing: Ruining the interior as well, I am going for full race car: I've decided to try to find a running Talon with a decent build to buy and use as a parts car for this build. I'll also have to learn how to weld as I'd like to make my own engine mounts, this is my biggest worry as I have no idea what I'm doing. Hopefully it drives by spring.
Black 4G63t BMW E30
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Re: Project: Daunting Task
[Re: Cody M. Dyck]
#445752
December 29, 2015 02:39 pm UTC
December 29, 2015 02:39 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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Very interested as well!!
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Project: Daunting Task
[Re: Cody M. Dyck]
#445756
December 29, 2015 04:57 pm UTC
December 29, 2015 04:57 pm UTC
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,809 Ottawa, ON
Mike Eng
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,809
Ottawa, ON
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Motor mounts would be a good start for learning how to weld. I would advise a good gas mig, and after mocking up the design, tack it, bring it to the bench and run all your beads in the flat position. Lap joints are also great to learn. Stock up on the same material you'll use for the mounts and get some practice in. I love the idea of being able to do to burnouts. Really miss it in fact. Would be fun with line lock.
'99 GSX GT35R '03 CBR 600RR
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Re: Project: Daunting Task
[Re: Cody M. Dyck]
#445757
December 29, 2015 05:04 pm UTC
December 29, 2015 05:04 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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Found this one too but with a sooby trans http://e30m3b-spec.blogspot.ca/
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Project: Daunting Task
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#445770
December 30, 2015 02:44 am UTC
December 30, 2015 02:44 am UTC
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Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 256 Olds, Alberta, Canada
Cody M. Dyck
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Olds, Alberta, Canada
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VERY interested to see how this new project progresses Do you know if that swap has ever been done before? I have found 3 but I'm sure there are more out there, I like the looks of the old BMW's and I know 4G63's so we'll see how it works. Very interested as well!! Ya me too, we'll see if it works, getting the engine to run should be easy as I'm just porting the entire wiring harness over, no splicing. I'm confused, what's going on? There is a black DSM, a red DSM, and now a BMW all on the same page. I'm just using the same thread for all of my projects instead of creating new ones, I switch vehicles often. About four months ago I called a friend of mine who has been sitting on two mint Talons for 10 to 12 years without either of them running. I took his black Talon and started rebuilding it, I ended up having to replace all the wiring in the car, the fuel pump melted all the wiring in the tank, I went through two engines and then finally got it running. Once it was running I returned it to him and took his red Talon for my own, I was planning on building it up but after the huge work I put into the black Talon I just couldn't get motivated. I phoned a buddy and was bitching to him about my lack of motivation to build the Talon and he said "Why don't you build my BMW" and I said "Yes sir." A couple days later he drove the car to my house, signed a bill of sale into my name and this project began. It's been done and it's quite famous - it's been around for many years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5QIVxy_z2U(This is just one of a number that have done the swap. Not sure there's much documentation though as it's mostly race/shop builds. Ya, they all seem to be drag race only cars, I know it's the same thing but I have three goals for this car: Hillclimb, Targa Newfoundland and the Bonnyville Salt Flats. I've already started the registration process for a hillclimb in May so I have to get this thing running. Motor mounts would be a good start for learning how to weld. I would advise a good gas mig, and after mocking up the design, tack it, bring it to the bench and run all your beads in the flat position. Lap joints are also great to learn. Stock up on the same material you'll use for the mounts and get some practice in. I love the idea of being able to do to burnouts. Really miss it in fact. Would be fun with line lock. Thanks for the advice, can I just buy a generic Canadian Tire mig or should I spend more? I hate the idea of buying the wrong welder. Great link, thanks.
Black 4G63t BMW E30
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Re: Project: Daunting Task
[Re: Mike Eng]
#445774
December 30, 2015 08:30 am UTC
December 30, 2015 08:30 am UTC
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Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 256 Olds, Alberta, Canada
Cody M. Dyck
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Olds, Alberta, Canada
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I like the idea of using the Subie trans as well^^ Although that Mustang unit seems stout enough. I want to see how this turns out. I imagine that the choice of trans as far as strength goes will be less critical when you can just spin two wheels instead of worrying about all four Ya I like the low price of the T5, it looks like I'll be running a 2.3l with a Holset HX35 so I may overpower the T5 and then I'll just upgrade the T5, I kind of want straight cut gears in it eventually anyway. I may cut the fenders and put bolt on flares on to run a wider tire, probably a slick we'll see how the finances work. Well it really depends on what sort of welding you will or want to be doing. Versatility gets expensive. I ended up with a flux core for little things and a 225 amp ac/dc arc welder which was nearly a grand for bigger jobs. That being structural licenced welding. I do plan to get a multi processor (mig, tig and stick) eventually. Just not a need more than a want.
YouTube welding videos.
A lot of what certified welders learn start there. Tons of great info! I'm watching youtube videos now, I think I'll buy a cheap mig and just learn with it while making my intercooler piping and exhaust piping and I'll get the rollcage guy to build the motor mounts, I would rather not mess them up.
Last edited by Cody M. Dyck; December 30, 2015 09:12 am UTC.
Black 4G63t BMW E30
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