I've talked with Chrysler Canada, and they say recall #780 was performed on my Talon in Jan/99. I bought the car in Oct/99 and the transfer case looked fine, except for a growling noise it kept making (and getting louder).

Well, early this spring i changed the oil in all 3 cases, and soon after i noticed the transfer leaking. I was suspicious because only 200cc of 600cc came out of it! I need to get my transer case re-inspected and am VERY nervous of letting a dealer work on my car.

Does anyone have connections or contacts in any dealers in the K-W / Guelph region? I'm also considering the local 'hometown' shop in Dunnville. I'm anticipating a rough ride but would like to stay hopefull. Ideas?

Thanks a bunch guys!


------------------
Dk Blue
90 TSI AWD

Stay away from Cambridge Plymouth Chrysler... they managed to screw up my fuel filter install! I mean how much simpler can you get????

------------------
Mike J

-Quadcylla-
92 Laser RS-T, FWD

Vortex Racing
http://www3.sympatico.ca/robin.jackson2/HomePage.htm
Just call me Runner-Up

In dealings with Satan, you can't win. Ever. You just have to pick one and bite the bullet after giving them all the information that you can. ALWAYS talk to the mechanic that will be doing the work yourself.

Me, I just did the RTV mod on mine. No problems since, and they aren't ever going to *touch* my car.

Thanks for the info... i would do the work myself if it was 'just' a leak... but i've got slack in the drive-train and an ugly noise coming from the transfer case.

If they'll replace the whole thing... i'll be happy.

I checked with the Dunnville dealer and talked with a very helpful mechanic there. He suggested i look elsewhere because they were not an Eagle dealer in the past and he doesn't have any of the 'special' tools.

Seemed nice and understanding though.. guess you find that more in smaller dealers.

Search continues...

Martin Q

------------------
Dk Blue
90 TSI AWD

Parkview/Parkway Chrysler in Miss. did mine and I would say they did a good job.

------------------
PurplePlymouthGuy
1992 Laser AWD
DSMentia support group leader...
so many mods, I don't remember if its 20G or 20g's

Try TEAM Chrysler at 401 & Dixie
They did a warranty repair on
Turbo/cylinderhead/TB.. Turned around in 1 day. Great service.

Stay away from QEW Chrysler

OK, i've made an appointment at Royal City Crysler in Guelph. It's close by and seem decent. I've got a trip soon so i've gotta do something.

Tuesday morning... i'll let ya know how it goes.

------------------
Martin Q
==================>>
Dk Blue '90 TSI AWD

"No special tools", my ass. They just don't want to touch a Talon, plain and simple. I get that from ALL the dealers down here now. They don't want anything to do with them if they're out of warranty.

The xfer case and drivetrain don't require any special tools. (:

Never an eagle dealer......haha

Didn't they sell any Plymouth Lasers???

Damn, you're right. I'm sure they sold a number of lasers. In fact, i recall seeing a few. Hmmm....

Actually, when i was on the phone with the mechanic, he looked up the recall procedure and started reading though it. It was pretty cool, except i needed to get back to work. Anyway, the notes go through tearing the transfer case apart and replacing bearings (if necessary) which requires 'special tool #...'. He came across about 3 or 4 tool #'s before he stopped reading, and explained that he would need to borrow these from another dealer which is a pain and takes time.

I understand where he's coming from, but he still offered to do the work if i wanted. The only problem with that is i can only be there on the weekend. If it got deep into parts i wouldn't be able to leave it there.

He seemed pretty honest to me, but i can see where a dealer wouldn't be interested if they had a few bad experiences.

Life goes on, just hope i don't get screwed over.


------------------
Martin Q
==================>>
Dk Blue '90 TSI AWD

[This message has been edited by Martin Queckenstedt (edited May 20, 2000).]

Ah, bearing and seal replacement... Yes, technically you need special bearing and seal pullers to do the job to their specs.

A) Something that you can buy/borrow from any parts store or CDN Tire, and

B) Are easily duplicated by using a screwdriver and pliers... (:

I haven't come across a 'special tool' yet that I haven't been able to either get around, borrow, or fabricate myself.

....ATTENTION EVERYONE....
THE BULLSH!T HAS FINALLY STARTED!!!!

Yep, what a fine way to start a rainy day! Ahhh.... life is grand. : )

Well, i stopped at the dealer, gave them all the info, everything seemed fine. I made sure they understood the scenario, that i talked to Chrysler, that the xfer case is growling, that there IS a leak. Simple.

Then, while i'm waiting for my ride, the service manager says to me that the recall had 'already been done'. (great, here we go) I told him that in the US, there is no completion of the recall because it can be re-done ... but Canada may be different.

Well, he sat on the phone for about 5mins then told me that the recall HAD been completed, end of story. I asked him if he understood the scenario:

Jan 99 - recall was done (inspected?)
Oct 99 - i bought the car, no leak
Mar 99 - changed the oil. Only 200 of 600ml was in the case, and has been leaking since the change/fill.

Yes, he understood and they would look at the car but i would pay for it (oh how i would pay). I said 'no thanks. i'll talk with Chrysler'.

YEEEEEE HAAAAWWWWW !

My first run-in with Chrysler Service has exceeded my expectations!

I'm going to call Chrysler back and relay the info... what do you guys think? Should i just try another dealer, or should i get backup first?

------------------
Martin Q
==================>>
Dk Blue '90 TSI AWD

Hhhhmmm it's a safety recall. I'd push that who ever inspected it did a piss poor job cuz it's failing so you should be able to get the recall done. Call the NHTSA too and get them on your side.

------------------
Mike J

-Quadcylla-
92 Laser RS-T, FWD

Vortex Racing
http://www3.sympatico.ca/robin.jackson2/HomePage.htm
Just call me Runner-Up

OK... this is getting better!

Chrysler says:

Recall was done Jan/99 with 1 YEAR WARRANTY.
Because the transfer case was empty, not leaking, and i didn't find the problem till now, i am OUT OF LUCK.

I mentioned that it was a SAFETY RECALL and not just a service issue, but that changed nothing.

Do i need to get my American citizenship and buy a gun here??!!??

Mike, isn't it true that the NHTSA is a US organization and won't look at Canadian cases?

(here comes mr happy!)

------------------
Martin Q
==================>>
Dk Blue '90 TSI AWD

recall info @ http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/Recalls/recintro_e.htm

I contacted the Road Safety Directorate
Transport Canada
1-800-333-0510
1-613-993-9851

and asked for 'recalls' and talked to Bill (?). He seemed to know the drill quite well
and explained that there is no law in Canada that forces a manufacturer to fix a
recall, only to announce it. He doubts that the car was driving for the last year with
almost no oil in the xfer case. He figures that it wouldn't have lasted this long.

but, when i drained the 'old' oil out of the case it was almost clear. It was much
cleaner than the rear diff or transmission. When i checked it last weekend, it was
clearly dark like engine oil. That makes me think that it wasn't contacting anything
before due to low level.

Bottom line is it doesn't matter what i say or think. Not to Satan. He'll take you're soul either way.

I'm waiting to hear back from Transport Canada. They're my only hope! ; )

------------------
Martin Q
==================>>
Dk Blue '90 TSI AWD

I got to talk to Bill, and he does seem to be a pretty cool car guy. However, he is also correct in stating that his hands are tied...

It is a case of Canada being 'nicer' than the US. Their NHTSA is a watchdog, with the power to enforce, and seriously punish an offender for breaking, their rules and mandated recalls. Our Transport Canada has their hands tied, because there are *NO* laws stating that a manufacturer has to warranty or recall their product, even for safety. Transport Canada is nice to 'mention' these problems to the automakers, who graciously 'comply' with these suggestions.

You want to know how deep the problem goes? Get this, when you buy a new car, and it is faulty off the lot? Legally, the maker is under NO LEGAL OBLIGATION to repair it. They can tell you to go stuff it. The only reason they don't, is that it would make them look bad to the unknowledgable buying public. To those of us who know? Where was ChryCo USA caught dumping their US LemonLaw recalled cars? That's right...Canada.

I wish I still had all the NHTSA documentation from when I tried to take Chrysler to court, but you can find it all in their database and request it. Send it to Bill, and stress that it is a 'Life or Death' issue. Hell, I'll testify for you on it. Talk to the Chrysler regional service administrator and voice your concerns as it may be already damaged.

I can almost guarantee nothing will happen, though (Might set a precedent.). Your best bet would be to find a low-milage xfer case somewhere, seal your yoke using the RTV sealant fix, and drive safe. It's just too bad that Chrysler is so big, they're pretty much untouchable...

Thanks for the info Troy! I've got some planning in the works.

Let me just get a few things straight though.

I'm not worried or concerned about fixing the leak. It'll cost me a few bucks and a day at the shop, but that's not so bad. I'd rather do it myself just to KNOW that it's done.

I AM worried about the growling sound the transfer case is making, and the slack i have in the driveline. I'm VERY sure that it is damaged and that could cost some serious time/money.

I am also VERY worried about it 'letting go' while i'm driving it. This is why the recall was put in place, but the system has failed me here.

I am also pretty sure that the transfer case was running for at least a year (or two) with approx 200ml of gear oil in it.

There was no trace of oil spray when i bought it in Oct/99, and i'm sure that was the case when it was 'inspected' in Jan/99. Maybe if they had checked the oil level.....

------------------
Martin Q
==================>>
Dk Blue '90 TSI AWD

[This message has been edited by Martin Queckenstedt (edited May 23, 2000).]

Call the folks at Parkway Chrysler in Mississauga. They had one car's T-case lockup so they are EXTRA cautious.

They may be able to do something for you.
Of all the dealers I have been to, they are the most helpfull

------------------
PurplePlymouthGuy
1992 Laser AWD
DSMentia support group leader...
so many mods, I don't remember if its 20G or 20g's

That's my point. You probably won't be able to get them to get you a replacement. Chrysler backs it's dealers in that, if THEY are the ones that ruin something and they deny it, Chrysler will agree with them.

My grandfather had the dealer do an oil change in his Spirit. 10 miles home, his oil light comes on. NO NEW OIL was put into the engine. I wish I had known that when I went to court. The dealer's main defence was 'How could one of our mechanics miss something so trivial as a fluid check?"

You have a new car under warranty that's worth $30k or so...I'd spend the $700 or so to get a 'known good' xfer case, fix it up, and bolt it on...

Speaking of the T-case, I think I blew mine today. I was driving at about 60km/h and there were some weird noises. I was going to Magnus to get it checked out. Then suddenly the car just started slowing down and stopped. It wouldn't move at all. I got it towed to Magnus and they'll inspect it tommorrow. They said that it's either T-case ot tranny. I'm sure is the T-case. Now for my question: will the dealer replace the T-case for me under the safety recall? Or is the recall only about the leak in the T-case?

------------------
93 TSi AWD

WAHAHAHAAA!!! Oh, jeez, this is too too funny.

Given the experience I've had with one dealer in town, the line should be:

"How could one of our mechanics NOT miss something so trivial as a _____________?"

Fill in the blank with whatever you want, it's always true.....



------------------
S.
1000 AAQ: 1000q.dsm.org
ECU Primer: members.home.net/costall/ECUprimer/index.html

I had to bring my car in 2 or 3 times to the dealer to get the X-fer case properly fixed.
I put in 500ml of oil into the 600ml case the first time.

"Sorry sir, we can't find a leak."
Oil was everywhere.


On a safety recall there should be no time limits. Take the car to an EAGLE dealer and ensure that there is a mechanic that has worked on the AWD talon's/lasers before.

Again, I recommend Dixie-401. Great work.
This was 3 years ago though.

I guess word to the wise.. Check the x-fer case oil level at each oil-change.

Wellington-Chyrsler in Guelph is good for giving you info...they take the time....for service however, find a good mechanic, all dealers prices are way too high, and the work is not necessarily better

All too true, Sean. I was laughed at for using CDN Tire once in a while. They do much better work than any dealer I've seen.

Hey Martin! What's happening with yours?

OK, just got back on-line from a brief vacation!

Called Transport Canada back and talked with Bob... maybe i got mixed up, but i
guess that's who i was talking to before (Bob Sheraton?). He told me to check with
Chrysler as they have agreed to help me out. !!! WHAT?!? : )

Well, here goes... i'm calling Chrysler...

- talked to Joe, he's looking up the info...
- passed me to Holly (not avail.)... she was handling this 'case'.
- I am to call the service manager (Cathy) from the dealer (Royal City Chrysler) and
arrange for an 'inspection'.
- if the 'inspection' reveals a transfer case leak, then Chrysler will pay for repair. If
the leak is otherwise, then i will have to pay for this 'inspection'.

hmm... well, it's a step in the right direction. I just need to make sure the leak is
pretty obvious. Even if it is (was last i checked).. i'm sure it's possible that they
won't see it!

Well, wish me luck, we're on to round two!


------------------
Martin Q
==================>>
Dk Blue '90 TSI AWD

We're root'n for ya

Thanks Mike! : )

Ok, called Royal City. Got appointment on Mon June 5th, 8:15am. Think i'll take some pics of the xfer case & leak!

------------------
Martin Q
==================>>
Dk Blue '90 TSI AWD

A buddie of mine has a brother with a 1G AWD Talon and he just happened to mention that his brother just forked out $4,000 on a new transfer case due to a leak in the yoke or what ever. Well I went straight to Sean's 1000AAQ page and printed of the section and gave it to my buddy to pass off. Hopefully he'll be able to recove some of that money too.

Just talked to the dealer.

transfer case: MD758205 $2195

ouch... $4000 sounds a bit nuts, unless there were other parts and labour involved.

Your buddy with the $4000 bill should be calling Chrysler to submit it for a full refund.

Seriously.

------------------
Andrew Bienhaus - Web-Team Dude
1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

$4000 would probably be for a tranny & transfer case together... Heh, I remember when they quoted me $2400 each for the tranny and xfer case. I said, "You want the same for a little power direction changer as you do for a whole transmission? HA!" (:

Martin, if you want to go ahead with this crapshoot, fill the xfer case as much as you can and try to encourage it to leak if it doesn't do so on it's own. This is a very slow leak over a long period of time. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if they deny the presence of a leak anyway. "Who are the mechanics here, anyway?" ):

Be sure to print the VFAQ out for the mechanic to look at.

Ask to come and show them the leak. Don't F*ck around, because its your life man...

Force the issue, if the dealership passes off on it, they are liable for anything that does happen. Be a prick, and fight till you drop.

Chrysler knows that there have been SEVERAL t-case lockups in Canada too, so they know what can happen.

good luck!

------------------
PurplePlymouthGuy
1992 Laser AWD
DSMentia support group leader...
so many mods, I don't remember if its 20G or 20g's

OK, i'm baaack! : )

Showed up at the dealer this morning and waited around like a nervous father in a
hospital. Watched them pull the car in and up on the hoist. Saw him checking the
oil level and a few minutes later they called me into the operating.. umm, i mean
the garage.

Well, they pointed out a leak on the front of the transmission that looks like it's
coming from the shift levers.. aww crap. Guess i'm going to pull the tranny sooner
than i thought. They told me this was where my leak (drip) was coming from...
oh ohh... i was starting to get frantic.

"Let me show you where the transfer case leak is...", i say. But they already saw it
and agree that it's leaking. : ) Yay! Finally!

Well, parts are on order, but i'd be much happier if they could open it up and find
out what's causing the growl. The mechanic went for a test drive (behind my back)
and said he didn't find any unusual noise. Of course not! He doesn't know what to
listen for, and doesn't know how to reproduce it. That's why i asked to take him
for a drive to demonstrate. arrrgh!!

Well, i'm feeling better... what a relief, I was all set for a fight.

------------------
Martin Q
==================>>
Dk Blue '90 TSI AWD

It might not be over yet.

Be sure they fix that damn t-case correctly.



------------------
S.
1000 AAQ: 1000q.dsm.org
ECU Primer: members.home.net/costall/ECUprimer/index.html

OK got a message from the dealer yesterday, the 'parts' are in. Called this morning for an appointment on Monday morning. I asked if the transfer case would be inspected, or if only the leak will be fixed. She (Cathy) said they would be going through the recall procedure (which i could read over), and anything outside of that would be bill-able.

Sounds fair.

I also asked if i could take the mechanic for a ride to show him the noise, and she said 'no problem'.

Well, so far so good !

------------------
Martin Q
==================>>
Dk Blue '90 TSI AWD

Update

Took the car in this morning. The previous mechanic couldn't work on it today, so
someone else is on the job. I asked to read the recall procedure for #780. Here's
the rough idea.

- if the transfer case is out or very low on oil (ie, just dripping) then it must be
replaced
- if the transfer case is making any unusual noise or 'grinding' sound, then the
case must be inspected (i think?), or replaced.
- check oil level
- check for leak at oil seal, yoke, gaskets.
- if only the yoke is leaking, then it is replaced without removing the case.
- if the oil seal is leaking, then the case must be removed along with the exhaust
downpipe.
- 1998 yokes MUST be replaced
- transfer case part #'s are different for 90, 91-96, and 97-98.

Since i've filled the transfer case, there's no way to prove the 'low oil' scenario.
Even if i could, it might not me 'low enough'. >: [

BUT, if i can demonstrate the noise that i hear... then the case must be inspected
(not sure) or replaced. Well, Cathy told me to wait by the car and the mechanic
would be right out for a test drive. He shows up and tells me he's 'taking it in the
shop'.

! ! !

I tell him i need to take him for a ride to demonstrate the noise... he gets a but
huffy, but soon comes back ready to go. Except HE'S driving... ?? WTF?!

Well, we go for a ride and he can't produce the noise (of course). He also can't
shift gears without grinding and asks me why i don't replace the clutch and get
the tranny fixed. Great. I ask him if i can drive to show him the noise, and he tells
me he's not getting paid for this... and back we go.

Well, i talk to Cathy again, and go over the scenario again. If i can't demonstrate
the noise, then it doesn't exist... and all that'll happen is the leak gets fixed.

Finally i get to drive the mechanic, and i can tell he's pissed. I try to smooth things
over, i don't want to be the bad guy here. Well, i show him the noise (and also manage to shift flawlessly), and he asks
how i know it's the transfer case... i don't. But then how do you prove that it
is??? All i know is it's been a bit quieter since i filled it.

Well, (sorry for the long post...) bottom line is Cathy is going to call Chrysler and
let me know where they stand. If they stick to the recall procedure, then the case
will get replaced (right?). If not, then all i get is a seal fix... and maybe a reference
# if there's a future problem.

I'm gettin too old for this sh!t.

------------------
Martin Q
==================>>
Dk Blue '90 TSI AWD

[This message has been edited by Martin Queckenstedt (edited June 12, 2000).]

WOW that's complicated. And the irony of it all is that they sent me a second notice a few weeks ago to do the recall.

Second notice? hmmm sounds serious! : )

What year's your DSM.

90

90 eh? And no leak yet? How often do you change the oil?

Got a call back from Cathy, she said the car is 'ready to go', (yea right). Well, i guess i'll get in touch with Chrysler and see what they tell me.