Hiya folks!

As the title says, the brake pedal is almost touching the floor board. I can lock up the the brakes, but that requires a ton of effort. Any suggestions as to what this could be? Brake fluid is at max, & no squealing from the brake pads.

BTW, I'm a newbie at this Talon-thing. Are all TSI AWD Talons have ABS?

Any help is greatly appreciated,

Oz

You might have a leak in the boost line in it is taking TOO MUCH effort to stop, but that doesn't increase the distance the pedal travels. I would look for some air in the system if it's spongy.


has it ever been low on brake fluid?

What year is it?

Well, I just bought the car 3 weeks ago without touching the brake fluid. So, I guess it's safe to assume that it's not leaking somewhere...but I could be wrong.

In any case, I forgot to mention the details. It's a '90 Talon TSI AWD Turbo.

Here's something I also forgot to mention. Compared to my '90 Acura Integra, the pedal distance required before I could feel the brakes engage are fairly the same. However, with the Integra, the brakes respond really well that I do not require more brake pressure to stop properly. With the Talon, I feel the engagement, but it's very faint and weak. This forces me to apply more brake pressure to the point that the brake pedal is touching my floor mat.

I'm hoping this problem is pretty simple to fix.

Thanks,

Oz

You have to remember that the talon has a few hundred more pounds than your integra. They are not going to be the same.

Although weight is a factor when braking, I highly doubt that is the cause of the problem. During safe daily-street driving (ie. following speed limit laws), I'm currently braking 3 times earlier (ie. With the Integra, it would be 100ft. to stop, the Talon 300ft. for example). That's not what I call confidence-inspiring considering I now have a car that's 500lbs. heavier, 70 more HP, & 100 plus more ft-lbs. torque.

Amin-> What do you mean by spongy? I've never felt a spongy brake before.

Thanks for the input so far guys!

Keep 'em comin'!

Oz

If your brake fluid is of an unknown type/state, you should really just flush and fill it with new fluid, no matter how good/bad the braking is. They might just need to be bled, but like I said you might as well just get new fluid in there while you're at it.

Until that's done I wouldn't bother trying to figure out what else the problem might be because you'll just make yourself worry.

Beyond that changing your brake pads to a performance model makes a huge difference.

In what shape are the pads/rotors? Has the system been bled lately?
Also note that the early 1g's have tiny single caliper brakes up front.

You guys are ALL right, but if Oscar is just a normal driver like the brand of the pads shouldn't make that much difference.
even age is not abig factor as he doesn't hear any sound however the pads could be covered with something but unlikely

He is talking about a hard brake not best braking distance or so.

Spongy means it takes less effort and reaches end before locking which is clearly not your case.

But bleeding is a good option but I am suspecting the booster and some leak in it.

But in general talons have harder pedals

[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: Amin Ahmadi ]

That is my point exactly! The talon is a heavier car therefore you may have apply the breaks 300ft earlier

Change the break fluid, bleed the system, check the pads and rotors....then come back here if the problem still exists.

I test drove 2 talons before getting mine, and they both had the same feeling. Mine had it too actually.

I heard that when talons get old, the brake lines (between the metal lines and the caliper, the rubber) get softer and they expand under pressure. I guess you could upgrade to steel-braided lines, but that would cost you around $200 or so (guessing). Also, flushing and putting in new brake fluid is also a good idea. On my car it was so bad that I'd be able to push the pedal all the way down to the stopper at the end before the wheels would start to lock up.

I never changed my lines, I just drove it around and braked hard getting pissed off at it. After a while it started braking normally. I have since then upgraded the rotors and the pads, but that doesn't really affect the amount of travel, it just lets me brake when I'm going faster without shaking the car and fading.

But Oscar, I know the feeling coming from a Honda to a talon. I had a civic before this car and the brake feels much more responsive on that. Every time I drive my old Honda now it feels so firm on the brake pedal..

I found my buddy's Integra had ultra touchy brakes. But - the overall braking was shitty. One wheel would lock up, or all tires would lock up way to easily.

First, check that there is no air in the lines (bleed brakes) and make sure there aren't any problems with the braking system. Sounds like you have some air trapped in the lines.

If that doesn't do it, maybe your pads/rotors are glazed. Do some heavy braking. Get up to 140km/h and brake down to 40 several times. This might fix it. If not, get new pads.

When I had the carbon metallic pads, my braking felt sluggish. But once I heated them up, they grabbed nicely.

Thanks Guys,

I'll start replacing the fluid this weekend to see if it'll fix it. BTW, do you guys recommend that one-person brake bleeding/Vacuum Gauge kit that Crappy Tire sells? They price it out at $80 plus taxes.

Also, today, a friend of mine did this test with me. With the engine off, I pumped the brake. Now, the pedal travel should decrease as I pump and pump. However, it did not. I only felt a slight (and I mean slight) resistance, and was still able to pump the pedal with little effort. That's a bad sign.

However, with the brake depressed, I turned the engine on, and the pedal travelled to the floor losing resistance...which is a good sign that my brake booster is working properly.

Can any of you confirm?

BTW, with stock pads and rotors, my Integra's brake system felt weak and warpy. But after upgrading to Xdrilled/Slotted rotors and KVR pads, my stopping distance improved...and I loved it! And yes, they do lock up easy, and that's what I want out of my Talon


Thanks-in-advance,

Oz

ooo..sure sounds like your booster is shot.

My '90 AWD has always been like that. Lighter wheels helps. (:

I'm about to change my booster as well, although the brakes 'work' I can't lock my tires until I'm travelling slower than 40km/h. This may be a good thing, though. It's like ABS without the sensors, and whenever I've been cut off in traffic it always manages to stop in time. (:

I flushed and bled the system, new CDN Tire pads and rotors and even calipers... No help.

I want to Thank all you Guys for the tips. I bled the system last night. Unfortunately, I had a very hard time and therefore, in my opinion, it's only partially bled. 1) My wheel lug nuts wouldn't come off, any suggestions on these? 2) The Mity-Vac that I had didn't have proper adapters, so I had a hard time with the Teflon-tape-ghetto-solution.

However, it did improve brake feel. When I upgrade my brake system (hopefully before the year ends), I'll do a more thorough bleed.

BTW, I ended up purchasing a 4L jug of Certified DOT3 fluid from Crappy Tire. There's about 3L left. Can I still use it later?

Thanks,

Oz

You can use the brake fluid in your cluch system also.
If keep the cap on the jug tight at all times there shouldn't be a problem using the brake fluid at a later date.

HELLO
JUST AN IDEA THE PROB MY BE THE MASTER CYCLINDER ITS CALL INTERNAL LEACK THERE ARE SEALS CALL CUP SEALS AND WHEN YOU STEP ON THE BRAKE AND THESE ARE NO GOOD THE PEDAL WILL TRAVEL ALL THE WAY DOWN.

THIS IS WHATS HAPPENING THE CUP SEALS ARE BAD SO WHEN YOU STEP ON THE BRAKE THE THE BRAKE FLUID GOES IN TO THE MASTER CYCLINDER OUT IF THE BRAKE FLUID HOLDER. THEN BECASUE THE SEALS ARE NO GOOD IT BY PASS THE SEALS WHICH ARE WHAT MAKES THE PRESSUER. INSTEAD OF GOING IN TO THE BRAKE LINES TO HELP YOU STOP IT GOES BACK IN TO THE HOLDER. SO IF YOU HAVE NOT LOST BRAKE FLUID TRY THIS

WHAT I HAVE A TAIL LIGHT OUT?
94 ES THATS THIS STICKER ON IT

Mine did the same thing once.
All I did was was pull the calipers off and lube the pins up with sil-glyde and re-bleed the lines. My brkaes worked great ever since then now I just got to get rid of my warped front rotors