Alright, this problem has been bothering me for probably as long as I've owned the car (2 years):

Transmission is freshly replaced, new clutch, T/O Bearing, resurfaced flywheel, starter, drivers side axle and wheel bearing.

I get a loud growling noise, which almost sounds like a loud Honda Civic intake :rolleyes: ! The noise starts about the same time I enter boost (approx. 3000 rpm), and basically increases in loudness and slight vibration to the interior of the car all the way through the rpm band.

The car runs fine though, there is no vibration through the shifter, and the engine idles and runs very smooth. Turbo boosts to 11 psi or so (no controller), but seems to die off in the upper rpms (likely due to the weak springs in the 2G wastegates.) Shifting and driving the transmission has been no problem, which is why I'd like to resolve this problem, as it could be more serious than I am thinking.

Can anyone shed some light for me, I have been looking through pages of old posts and question databases.

Thanks,
Mike

Have you checked the turbo for shaft play?

Also, maybe there is a problem with the balance shaft (out of phase).
I'm not sure if thoes are the exact symptoms of it, but it's worth a search.

Does it vibrate like that if you simply rev the engine up that high with the car stopped?

Rob: The shaft play on the turbo seems pretty minimal, I checked it recently actually and it seemed to be ok, but there was a small amount of oil just outside the blades of the turbo, but I think that is just oil blow by from the intake (I disconnected my oil catch filter and didn't hook it back up).
As for the balance shaft, do you know what type of noise this would make, and would it only be at a certain rpm or higher?

Nick, it will vibrate just sitting in neutral and revving the engine, it seems almost louder than when running the car. What does this rule out? - transfer case/axles? Have you had similar symptoms?

Is this minimal shaft play radial (up-down/left-right) or axial (in-out)?

A small amount of radial play is normal, even with a brand new turbo.
There should be no noticeable axial play.

Since you can make it happen at a standstill though, it sounds like engine vibration is the cluprit.
This could be due to worn engine mounts, or balance shaft (as stated above).

I don't think there was any in/out play, but I should check again. Would this cause much noise under boost?

I just replaced my rear engine mount(behind the tranny). The two side mounts seemed alright, the rubber wasn't cracked or anything, and the metal sleeveswere still tight inside the bushings.

After just having the motor out of my car, along with every piece of suspension, and putting it all back in with a new tranny and clutch (in my driveway in December), I really would like to solve this without it being the balance shaft!

Have you checked your balance shafts ? sounds like there out of phase with the timing belt

It has to be coming from something spinning. Since the only thing spinning is the engine and the transmission input shaft when you rev it in neutral, it has to be one of those.

Check the balance shafts.

Alright then, I will check out the balance shafts when I get a chance, hopefully in the next day or two.
I'll let you know how I make out!

Thanks for the replies!

Mike

Alright, after doing some more reading, I definitely think this is my problem.

The symptoms described in the vfaq for when either the balance shaft is out of alignment or the oil pump sprocket is improperly aligned are exactly like what's happening to my car.

I am going to pull off the timing belt covers and see how it looks. Might be a good idea to reset the timing, and maybe get a new balance shaft belt while I'm in there.


Mike

LOL Mike I thought of this exact thing the other night but I forgot to call you about it the next day. It popped into my head about the balance shaft out of phase.. I definately think that's it. You can check it pretty easily with a screwdriver. Let me know how you make out. We really should have removed those shafts while you had the engine out - I forgot to mention that to you.. sorry

Up for another engine pull?

Greg, I wish I had removed them as well :-(
I haven't had a chance to check it yet, because I had to replace my outer tie rod end at 8:00 this morning in order to get to school!!

As for another engine pull, I think that's going to have to wait!! Hopefully over the weekend I'll pull off the timing belt covers and engine mount, and see what can be done with the balance shaft.

Thanks for the input guys.

Mike

I had that engine vibration prob aswell, so I replaced the drivers side engine mount which helped, but @ 3000rpm's it would still make that engine vibration sound. I pulled the t-belt cover and the b-belt was busted off and jamed up in the frt balance shaft sproket(lucky).
If your in there take the time to remove the frt case cover replace the rear b-shaft with a stub and just leave the frt b-shaft in place with no belt. This is cheaper and more reliable than having to buy a b-belt ever again(if you do it yourself), and there is no need to pull the engine, just drop it down a bit.
good luck!

by removing the b.shaft belt dose it mess up the flow of oil, dose the crank and rods have to be balanced because theres a reason why they put a balance shaft in the engine?

Many people, myself included run without the balance shafts. It's just fine. There may be a little more vibration than stock, but nothing to complain about.

If you just take the belt off and leave the shaft there then it won't do anything to the oil flow.

BTW, also check to see if the rear shaft was aligned properly as well. If someone changed the timing belt, it's possible they just lined up the oil pump sprocket on the belt without checking the balance shaft angle.

my car did the same thing when i first got the timing belt changed ... the guy had to do it over 3 times, first time it was out of timing, second time the balance shaft was out...its defintly the problem and i know exactly what your talking about. So if its the way you descibe it, then it sounds like it to me!

Thanks James, I'm pretty sure my problem arose the last time I had my timing done as well, so I'll hopefully solve my loud DSM problems very soon!

Mike

UPDATE:

Myself and Greg Kelly had a look at the timing on my car yesterday, and guess what?? When I checked the plug at the rear of the engine to see if the balance shafts were out of phase, sure enough, I could only get about 0.8 inches of a screwdriver into the test hole.

So we took off the timing covers and engine mount, and the wheel well shields, and spent a fairly cold afternoon out in his driveway!

To make a long story short, thanks to Greg and to everyone on this board who helped narrow down this problem, my car is awesome now Pulls way harder through the RPM band, and doesn't shake and vibrate at 3000 rpm and up! Anyone who is having this problem, FIX IT NOW!!! This caused me so many problems in the last year, it's disgusting:

1) vibrated bolts off my starting motor
2) vibrated bolts out of my rear trasmission mount
3) snapped off both bolts holding the drivers side axle bearing (bolts to the back of the motor). This had happened 3 times before I could finally now know what was causing the excess vibration!
4) last but not least, after losing bolts out of the transmission mount, and having the drivers axle fall away from the motor, I had an 8 inch crack appear in the bellhousing of my transmission (That I had just bought 9 months earlier dirtect from Mitsu). I haven't found anything else that could have caused it, and I just finished putting everything in the front end back together myself (engine, tranny, mounts, and all suspension).

So thanks again all, Club DSM rocks!

Mike

Not only was the balance shaft out of phase but the crank timing mark was nowhere near where it should have been when the cams were at TDC. So all in all the timing was majorly screwed.. i'm surprised the car ran at all. She's pretty mint now though!

Yeah it was all in pretty bad shape as far as timing is concerned:
Apparently the only thing that the mechancic who did the timing last worried about was making sure the #1 piston was TDC when the timing marks on the camshaft sprockets lined up.
Either way, make sure you check and re-check another mechanics work on your car, or if you have been screwed over enough like I have, LEARN HOW TO DO IT YOURSELF (or make some good DSM buddies Thanks Greg, and everyone else!

Mike