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Help diagnose a problem during engine cranking #119254
February 11, 2006 01:41 am UTC
February 11, 2006 01:41 am UTC
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 396
to, on
J
Jonathan Largon Offline OP
aka Michael Druciarek
Jonathan Largon  Offline OP
aka Michael Druciarek
J
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 396
to, on
Ok, this is going to be a long post.

It's a very unique problem I have that I havent seen anybody else experience. The car is a 97 2G with a 6bolt swap, running the early green-top CAS (no plug) with a 95EPROM ecu and DSMLINK. Rest of the mods are in my signature.

The motor takes about 3-4 cranks to start. My fuel pressure is at 43psi with no leaks, cas has been double checked to make sure it's not off 180 degrees. Now on to the actual problem, during cranking, the motor will sometimes hesitate, as if it hit a snag during one of the crank rotations, as if it gets resistance, then you feel starter fighting it, you can see the huge draw on the battery when this event occurs, it feels exactly as if I had knock during startup. As if the fuel is igniting during the compression stroke on one of the cylinders.

What makes me think that? Well, from time to time, I`ll get a nice intake explosion when this happens. But other times this doesnt happen at all. My timing has been backed off quite a bit and the car feels slow enough to really tell the timing is backed off but it doesnt always fix the problem.

I`m leaning towards a few things here.. here's my ignition wiring (coil)-(plug):
4123
||||
2341

Remember I have DSMLink so 1&2 are swapped and so are 3&4. I have already tried swapping 4&1 on the coil, but there was no difference, I can try also 2&3 but I doubt it would change anything..

I have done alot of searching and have yet to find the proper injector firing sequence for a DSM. But the one I did come up with is 2-1-3-4.

The next thing would be a broken cas, maybe wrongly sending the position of the crank/cam to the ECU causing ignition and/or fueling at the wrong time.

Another thing is based off of the previous theory... since you have to swap plug wires for DSMLink and invert the CAS signal, I have to also swap the injectors since they fire in different order now. Would this cause such a problem?

p.s.: This problem doesn't show up if I swap the CAS 180 degrees off, but the car is slow as a sack of bricks, and the timing isnt advanced past 12degrees, so I know its on the wrong way.


6bolt, FP GT30R, 272/272 HKS, Forged Wiseco 9:1, Forged Eagle Rods, Metal HG, ARP Studs, Fidanza Flywheel, Tial 40mm, ACT 2600, 3" Turbo-Back, 850cc Injectors, Aeromotive FPR, Walbro 255, Huge FMIC, Greddy Type-S, Tein Adjustable Coilovers
Re: Help diagnose a problem during engine cranking #119255
February 11, 2006 02:03 am UTC
February 11, 2006 02:03 am UTC
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749
Belleville, Ontario
Ryan Laliberte Offline

No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
Ryan Laliberte  Offline

No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
****
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749
Belleville, Ontario
Check your plugs. See if there's any discoloration.


AWDAuto
1996 TSi AWD Automagic
12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G
FP Green HTA - 11.42/123
Team Pump Gas and Meth
RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts

"Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim Carrey

Last Login: September 28, 2021
Re: Help diagnose a problem during engine cranking #119256
February 11, 2006 03:59 am UTC
February 11, 2006 03:59 am UTC
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,591
London
mike leclerc Offline
Serious Member
mike leclerc  Offline
Serious Member
***
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,591
London
You can use my CAS To test


92 talon esi, 91 talon
91 talon tsi AWD, 95 talipse AWD 12.4 RIP
95 talon AWD, 99 Syder AWD project
Re: Help diagnose a problem during engine cranking #119257
February 11, 2006 06:20 pm UTC
February 11, 2006 06:20 pm UTC
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 396
to, on
J
Jonathan Largon Offline OP
aka Michael Druciarek
Jonathan Largon  Offline OP
aka Michael Druciarek
J
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 396
to, on
What will checking my plugs prove to me... The engine is either knocking or it's not.. If it's knocking, I have to figure out why, if it's not knocking, then the plugs are not an issue here.

Mike: Thanks, I might take u up on that, I`m waiting on SBR for the manifold just as much as you are for mine, sorry for the wait.


6bolt, FP GT30R, 272/272 HKS, Forged Wiseco 9:1, Forged Eagle Rods, Metal HG, ARP Studs, Fidanza Flywheel, Tial 40mm, ACT 2600, 3" Turbo-Back, 850cc Injectors, Aeromotive FPR, Walbro 255, Huge FMIC, Greddy Type-S, Tein Adjustable Coilovers
Re: Help diagnose a problem during engine cranking #119258
February 12, 2006 12:56 am UTC
February 12, 2006 12:56 am UTC
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749
Belleville, Ontario
Ryan Laliberte Offline

No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
Ryan Laliberte  Offline

No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
****
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749
Belleville, Ontario
The condition of the plugs will tell you what is happening during ignition. Preignition, too hot, etc.

The other thing I thought about today is possibly a vacuum leak?


AWDAuto
1996 TSi AWD Automagic
12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G
FP Green HTA - 11.42/123
Team Pump Gas and Meth
RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts

"Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim Carrey

Last Login: September 28, 2021
Re: Help diagnose a problem during engine cranking #119259
February 24, 2006 08:46 pm UTC
February 24, 2006 08:46 pm UTC
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 396
to, on
J
Jonathan Largon Offline OP
aka Michael Druciarek
Jonathan Largon  Offline OP
aka Michael Druciarek
J
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 396
to, on
Just for the archives:

For the past 3 days it looks as if the problem went away. The only thing I've done was invert the CAS signal to the ECU (using DSMLink). I don't see how this could have helped the problem because I figured since the both the ECU and the CAS are pre 97-99 the signal would *not* have to be inverted. But it looks as if it helped, for whatever reason.


6bolt, FP GT30R, 272/272 HKS, Forged Wiseco 9:1, Forged Eagle Rods, Metal HG, ARP Studs, Fidanza Flywheel, Tial 40mm, ACT 2600, 3" Turbo-Back, 850cc Injectors, Aeromotive FPR, Walbro 255, Huge FMIC, Greddy Type-S, Tein Adjustable Coilovers

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