I was reading the specs on VPC and apparently it allows control over the A/F mixture, does that mean with VPC, a fuel computer like SAFC is not needed??

You still need a way to control fuel with a VPC. Remember, the VPC alone just replaces the MAF setup, and itself doesnt allow detailed tuning.

IMO (with my limited knowledge) a VPC+AFC combo is best to work with. (or VPC+GCC)

It's an expensive route to take though, and you'll find that an SAFC alone is an extremely useful tuning tool. You don't really need a VPC unless you wanna go all out.

you dont get a vpc for tuning air/fuel really, you get it because it will remove the whole mas restriction and it wakes up your car. power difference is amazing, just ask those who already have it. in my opinion its the best bang for the buck, personally i have experimented with the vpc setup quite a bit, and from my exp., a vpc equipped car with a 14b will pull harder than a MAS equipped car with a 16G. Now match a vpc/20G, 3" exh., and a beefy clutch and say hello to 12's

if you get the correct chip for your application (correct injector size), you wont need a s-afc, but you can fine tune your setup with a s-afc, thats all.

I think when Scharok says VPC wakes the car up, it is on relative terms. So where as Scharoks car made 150 horses without the VPC it now probably make more like 165.

So to him it is much faster!! But in reality it's sadly not...

In my opinion I would buy AFC and max out your setup with the stock mas. Perhaps the final purchase, after front mount, turbo, ect., then get a VPC.

How much is the VPC? I thought they were realy expensive, I don't know about best bang for the buck...I think removing the balance shafts take that prize.

bali, whatever :rolleyes:

vince, they are about $500 usd used (so about $800 cdn), plug one in your car and see the difference for yourself.

Keep in mind that VPC does not get along with cams, as the vacuum is too low.

Well, whatever... I watched a number of cars using VPC dyno down at the shootout and all put down impressive numbers, including PPG.

The VPC comes highly recommended by Buschur himself, and he (along with many others) has gone deep into 10s with it... so it must do something right. I think the 7 second car uses VPC as well, but Im not 100% sure.

Darko, all Buschur's cars run a VPC.

As far as bang for the buck goes, the VPC isn't exactly cheap. It will allow you to tune a bit, but not RPM specific. I did run a VPC/GCC combo for a couple of years with success. I have switched to a VPC/SAFC combo now and like it better. I now can adjust the idle with the 272 cams, and have much more flexibility for tuning WOT.

Cheap/easy would be a hacked MAF/SAFC. Guys have run 11's on that combo.

In my 94 TSI AWD, i run a VPC w/ stock turbo, mani, downpipe and intercooler. The Turbo and Mani are both cracked badly and i still pull of 14.0 with the car weighing in at 3880 lbs. (lots o stereo)

I am not running any other kind of fuel management at all.. The VPC by itself works great although i would suggest a bigger turbo as i am running rich on the lowest Gain(fuel) setting!

I believe it made a huge diff in my car! Just my .02

ROB

Well Ive sealed the deal with Jerry to buy the used VPC/GCC combo from Japan... if this doesnt let me run 12s, Im driving the car straight into lake Ontario, that's for damn sure!

hehe Darko..maybe you'd like to try for the 13s first..heheh....

(sorry couldn't resist the off topic post)

Must...... stop....... urge to.... flame...... back..

uughh

Seriously though, I can skip the 13s with good tuning and lots of boost. No prob, just wait and see

(remember, 14s were on 13psi and 10Hg vacuum at idle...)

ya, now that I think about it when i havked my MAF (well Mike J did it) I siad it was the best mod I did so far (this was before removing the balance shafts), so I can imagine removing thw whole thing.

Darko- I don't know what you have in your car, but you don't need a VPC to run 12's.... stock mas and AFC will definately get you there...

Yeah I know they'll get me there, but the deal on the VPC is very sweet and I'd be a fool not to buy it... and it'll be easier to run 12s with it.

I also should've mentioned that I want 12s in full street trim (pump gas, street boost, exhaust).

Bali you ran 12s on the stock turbo and intercooler didnt you? What did you use for tuning? I'll assume you used racegas and removed your exhaust and a bunch of dead weight, right?

ps. I've got ported 16g, ported o2 and exhaust mani, fmic with 2.5" piping, and full catless 2.5" exhaust. I know that stuff can take me into 12s easy, but so far the best I could do was 14.6 with a huge boost leak (10Hg vacuum at idle) and 13psi on 91 octane gas. I need tuning, and I need it BAAAD. (I need more fuel too)

The only dead weight was the back seats, front passenger seat, and spare tire. I have never removed anything else. Too lazy.

I did use racegas, and I used an old style afc, with my hacked 1g mas. As for exhaust I ran open downpipe (just pulled my cat out, not really much of weight reduction), because I have crush bent 2.5" exhaust. If I had 3" exhaust I know I would get the same times for sure.

What was your MPH? that is a better indication of your horsepower. If you injectors are stock, then it maybe tight from a fuel perspective. I was pulling 105mph (13.0) at 15psi on the stock turbo as a benchmark, so even at 15psi with the right combination you should pull more than that at the traps. I also could only lean out my car to .86v. Tune your car for the highest MPH first, then focus on your driving technique.

The best way to compare the power of cars is MPH, this ignores traction and driver differences. For example I think it was a guy names Steve with a burgundy talon fwd at the track who was pulling 106-107mph (same as me) but got 14.0's because his car can't hookup (too much power). My buddy Bruce has the same problem and make the same mph. Because of AWD I get the 12.6 at the same mph, ignoring driver skills.