I have a friend in japan who can sell me a 4G63(not a typo, the engine code is 4G63) engine and transmission out of a smashed EVO VII, i am wondering what the conflicts would be to install it into my '90 TSI AWD, since it has a hydraulic and computer controled center diff. dropping it in should be no problem since it looks like the same 4G63 as the talon. but the EVO VII has a wheelbase of 2510mm compared to the talons 2470mm. any help or even "Theories" that anyone has would be much appreciated.
Thanx

Would be quite an expensive job as far as I know, if it's even possible.

How much does he want for the engine?

I think the evo seven which is the last one has its engine laid the other way, Just like a NT 2g meaning the engine is on the passenger side. AT least that is what I recall from pictures. Also the picture tells about numerous changes to this line of MItsubishi engines.

Even a 95 and 90 has a lot of difference which could make a swap hard but EVO VII and Talon. I don;t know if the turbo would be on the "otherside" of the engine then or the engine is a mirror copy of ours.

Well the engine and tranny might have different mounting structure which might lead to a LOT of custom work.

Thats for the physical part which IS the easiest of all.

Also the wiring is mostlikely TOTALLY different. I don't know if you have ever tried to work around your ecu or trace a wire from here to there. These cars have a VERY complicated wiring. that means you need to get the EVO's wiring in a fairly good shape and somehow patch the engine part of it to your talon wires.
Not as easy as it sounds, I know in for examle Galant the Windows work sometime after the engine is shutoff. Apparantly that is not a timing circuit(as it should be) but that is controlled by the ECU. so they are very interrelated.

and then the drivetrain could be another pain. the transmission and the rear end could be gravely different.ANd then comes the electronics of the rear end which you don't have.

But I think getting the internals and turbo of that engine could be good idea. maybe fuel pump and some other stuff to upgrade yours. a block is a block anyways!

My 0.02
Amin

the engine costs $4000USD...comes with Engine, tranny, Broken ECU(like i said, the evo it came from now has a salvage title). and i need new injectors. my main concern would be if the drive shaft will connect to the EVO Transmission, or do i need to buy the EVO rear axle(which would give me 2 lancer diffs(center/rear) and 1 talon diff for the front.)which if i buy the rear axle, then ive got move me wheel wells back(which will be the stopper to this project) i would just like to hear some feedback on this and any possible theorized problems that anyone foresees.

the least of problems is the axle length, the solution: SAW

you might be able to mount the rear end with some custome work but the wiring is still missing.

And you cant run on Talon rear end because you end up with a different gear ratio but that is not a problem too. you can just get the gears inside the EVO or talon and swap them and make them match

but for $4000US plus shipping plus some custom fee and the hassle and then some easy 4 grands for installation if anybody know enough to do it.(or if you do it yourself some 1500 for the parts at least)

that might be price of a 95 talon and there is no arguement that the car would never be as reliable just becuase half of it is handmade.

Amin

i don't mind the work and ive got some insurance money coming my way shortly, and my current talon, just isn't cutting it anymore. the engine alright, but i doesn't throw you back in to your seat like other cars do. also it's only about 250hp at the moment. i am not knocking the original 4G63 because it is a great engine, but the Lancer EVO VII 4G63 engine totally blows it away. and if this engine in a stock evo can beat a WRX STi type UK, then theres gotta be something special about it, besides i don't mind taking a year or more to do it.

4G63 out of the EVO VII looks just like a 4G63 out of a talon, only more beefed and alot nicer looking

The engine is mounted in reverse with the T belt on the passenger side.

As for $4000USD ($6000CDN) that would get you a sick new engine & big turbo from a shop around here. It wouldn't be like the EVO though...it would be an EVO killer.

skip the EVO7 engine.

i know it would be a problem to convert, but a stock evo VII does a faster 1/4 mile than your car,(13.4 @ 103 mph). and blows away my 1g.
besides how many people do you know that have put a EVO engine in a talon? it would be fun regardless...and if it didn't work, the engine will mount directly into an enegine bay of the FWD N/T USspec Mitsu lancer. so it would not be a complete loss.

also for the record, if i do this mod to my car, i would have no intentions of dragging it. it would be my sideways car

Sure it looks the same, but the flywheel is on the driver's side of the engine since it's mounted pushed over on the passenger side like Amin said. Here's a pic of the "backwards" engine:



Richard, nobody is denying that this is a good engine, but alot of what makes it faster than our cars are things you can bolt on to your car for alot less money (larger turbocharger, better intake system including front mount intercooler, etc).

It's your money, but in my opinion this would be a huge undertaking and a waste of time and money.

How do you know this? These times were obtained in new EVO7, by a professional driver over hundreds of passes. What makes you think you will get those times from a used/abused engine from a wrecked EVO7 in your car which is not an EVO7 with you driving it?

Bottom line if I decided to spend $4000USD on a new engine - the setup I would build would easily kill it = read low 12s

you missed something in the list of thing that makes it better and faster than our DSM's..
Active electronic controlled hydraulically actuated clutch type center and rear diffs... thats what my fetish with the engine is, sure it's a great engine, but it's also the most advanced all-wheel drive system in the world.(besides Subaru AWD). the old mitsu AWD(our DSM's) is still good, but compared to a WRX's AWD system or the EVO VII's, its not all that great. it's more the AWD diffs i want. and no other mitsu has the diffs that the EVO does.
if i could keep the original engine and get the EVO AWD i would...but i can't. and i also can't buy a EVO outright, so this will be the closest thing i will ever be able to remotely afford.

What are dreams for, eh?

i would not know if i could get those times...that is the 1/4 mile time of Sport Compact Car mag, Mitsubishi will tell you that the car runs 13.0-12.9 sec 1/4. but i don't want a fast drag car, if i wanted a drag car, i would buy a Supra TT. so insult intended earlier. i would rather have a engine that has 5000miles on it and no rebuilds, then a engine that is beefed that has been rebuilt many times and has hundreds of thousands of countless miles on it.

sry correction...No insult intended earlier

The active electronic controlled hydraulically actuated clutch type center is cool and all, but its not going to make the car go faster, maybe handle better and get better traction. But $6000cnd for all that I think is a waste of money. For $6000 you could easily get mid to low 12's if its well tuned, or you could get the EVO engine and if you could fit it into the Talon maybe mid 13's, again if its well tuned.
All that work to get the engine and custom installed for only mid 13's is just not worth it to me, but if you want the pay that $$ for an EVO engine its your money, but this is my opinion.

Another thing is the EVO 7 engine puts out only 276HP, you say yours is about 250HP, so for all that work and money you'll have only 26hp more. Dump $6k into your current engine and you'll have 350-400HP, I know what my bang for the buck choice would be....again only my opinion.

How much money do you plan on spending on this project? It will take loads of cash to pay someone to do a swap like this. In the end all youll have is a talon with a evo drivetrain installed in it. Do you plan on keeping this car for a long time? Sure it would be cool but sometimes you have to look at the big picture and ask is it worth wile. Not intending to insult you. I just thought Id add My oppinion .

It would be unique though.

Richard, listen to other club members and go with their advice. There is a reason why ppl dont swap ther talon's 4G63 for the evo's version. In order to make that conversion work, you would have to COMPLETELY rebuild your entire car, you will need to engine, Frt Diff, Transfer case, Drv Shaft, rear Dif, center Diff.....Everything. If you want to spend that much money and time just because you want an Evo engine, you shouldnt be driving a talon. You can spend less money and make your car go faster and handle even better then the EVO. Trust me!

I personally like logical discussions so I add another 2 cents,(I have 6 cents so far!! )

I just need to add that I am not a conservative person of not-possible not-possible type. and I personally like odd things. but discussions have always been my favourites!

In these couple of posts you see that you must spend almost 15 grand to have that thing somewhat working. and then you have a monthly 300(yeah you will) to keep that things running. if you put that aside you can pay for a EVO which looks like an EVO and drives like an EVO.

For the record I need to add that a car doesn't get all it's handling and traction from its drivetrain but the design of the chassis is 50 percent of the deal.

And about technicality of the matter,
after the previous 4 cents this came to mind:
Turbo in the EVO engine is on the frontside right?
You have two ways to mount that engine either the way it is in EVO or the way it is in Talon.

if you put it the talon way then you have to either use a talon head or make the turbo come to the front(as it will go to the back with this flip) and the intake to the back. well I don't think that is an easy task and I don't think the resluts would be a very well tuned/top of the edge engine with too many hand made parts stuck in the intake and exhaust.

Or you make some custom mounts and put it the EVO way. so basically under the hood everything looks like an EVO.Great why not? If you have ever been under the car you realize that the chassis members are STRICT and tightly fit. The whole design of the subframe is based on the transfer case(with that particular size) attached to the tranny's left side and the tranny on the passenger side. so one needs to modify the subframe heavily. Don't forget that you can't getthe EVO's because that mounts differently and that is a right hand car afterall.

Then you need to make sure width of the engine+Tranny of the EVO is not longer than what you can fit in the Talons hood. because you need to have that output shaft of the transfercase RIGHT in the transversal centre of the vehicle, RIGHT THERE.

you are looking to have the EVO rear end there. OK then you need to import that too. that YAW control system of mitsubishi has indeed a VERY sophisticated Electronic Control Unit(atleast like Galant's ECS) that needs to come with the rest of the gang so it can work as you like it to. So should the wiring.

I don't know what the WRX STi has that makes it that spectacular but I have worked around a 98 Legacy GT as well as Talon and if I am to choose among the AWD Subaru or a FWD Galant, the Galant gets my money. The only odd thing about that subaru was oOmputer controlled torque distribution and the rear end was fully mechanical but even that made the drvetrain a mess. And the wiring and the electronics involved is not what you like to deal with(and this is a not a newbie afraid of couple of wires, an electrical engineering student/technician). I am not a real fan of Subaru's AWD because of many defficiencies I found the system to have(the most practial/all purpose one so far is the oldest one, the Audi's Quattro)

You could get most of that traction increase with an LSD anyways.

I bet with anyone here Mitsubishi will regret this YAW Control System in couple of years so will the owners. Why? is that because I don't like computers or I think Dodge Charger and Camaro go better? Hell no!
History tells me that.
the 4WS was abandoned in Galant and Prelude. So was the ECS or Air ride in BOTH Galant and Subaru Legacy. Reliability is why Toyota and Honda have never been fan of these fancy things(otherwise they have more money than Mitsu and Subaru to put into that).

ECS is THE answer to the Ride/Handling balance equation and it really gives a nice handling car that drives nice. But once it dies(which is not unlikely after 5 years) then your vehicle rides like sh!t(some Galant folks back me up). Your YAW control or centre diffrential system malfunctions and if you are lucky and you can move at all either you have your vehicle pull to one side or is a full time RWD or FWD.

but I still think the internals could be good. As well if you have enough manufacturing abilities if you get the head and mirror-copy it so it fits a Talon you have a good market(copyright problem though). Usualy head is where most of modifications happen.

The engine has had 5000 miles and then an accident. there is no way you could be sure the break in period has been passed as it should have. An engine that has been beefed up during the break in period has really been under stress. The block might be in really bad shape and not far down the road you might see the results.

Rebuilt engine if done right is really as good as a new if not better because the chances are far more that it is like the blueprint. for that money you can get a new Block BTW.

as the last part I like to say that this sentence remind me of the old advertisment paradox "New and Improved". Either just like it or alot better looking.

Anyhow, if you ever plan to do it you can count on my sincere help if you are somewhere in Ontario as I really like to see that done. or you can mail me a

Good Luck
Amin

I agree with most of the post regarding trying to install the EVO engine, you've heard all that now and will do what you want anyway.

The part that is interesting is the drivetrain your after. You would probably need a full EVO VII suspension/drivetrain and custom fit it to your vehicle. Whicc, as I am sure you already know, is very pricey and not gaurunteed to give you what your after. I am assuming you have never driven in a EVO let alone the new EVO so you really don't know if this set-up is what you want. I would take a look at the rally teams in North America that race with Talons (there are many). See what set-up's they use, we all know rally's are driven sideways so these cars would have what you are looking for. For the amount of money you would spend you could get LSD at both ends, upgraded suspension, bushings, camber kit etc.

As for the power you already have been beat over the head with the power issue and can deal with making a nice responsive engine to suite your driving tastes.

Take alook at the rally teams before you make your purchases. Either way it sounds like you have a fun(all be it expensive) project ahead of you, good luck. Cheers.

It seems that the "backwards" engine is more suited for a 2gn/t. It looks as though it might be easier to put that into an Esi, then it would to stuff a Tsi engine into one. I know that you have a 1g and it might not be worth the hassle. If and when it breaks or needs this and that, where are you gonna take it, or even get parts?! It seems like an awsome idea in theory, But in theory, communism works. I'm with the general consensice, Go with a bigger turbo, intercooler , etc.
Just my two cents.
By the way, anybody know how hard it might be to stuff the EVO engine into an Esi?

Hello Richard.

I have not read all of the texts in all of the posts here but for $6000 you can get a hell of an Engine.

That Hydraulic Diff might sound interesting but it's only a Diff. No mather how good it might be I'm sure it does not cut $6000 plus all of the other "Dough" you'll have to pump into this project.

Having said that; You'd probably be one of the only one that would have one of these Motor in a DSM (that I know of anyway)...

Other possibility could be that you buy a Hyd Diff and you put it in you Tranny!!! Use the rest on "tha" money and rebuild a Motor. Heck you could even get a Stroker with that Hyd Diff and would become our Hero big time... Just put the EVo Valve Cover on (if it fits) and tell everyone that you got a "Real" Evo Engine under tha Hood!!!

Have a nice evening.

Ghislain.

Long discussions aside if I where you I would save up the money for now and on summer 2003 (which is not far) when the EvoVII came here to North America I would buy the real thing. especially with the new Misu dealers which will open up by then here in Canada. even if they don't bring to Canada (which I believe they will) I am sure you can order it from US. you are almost talking about $20000 upgrade here with the price of your car on top and a little bit of saving you can get the real thing. I am a big Evo fan (I like the Evo II Rally Sprint model in particular) and as a big fan that is my intention. IF I CAN SAVE UP ENOUGH MONEY TILL THEN WITH MY SCHOOL AND EVERY THING! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You must have alot of money.

Ok, $6000 Basic Parts -engine and or drivetrain-
$3000 for some Custom parts- exhaust,intake, wiring, driveshaft extension or shortening, engine mounts, etc,- (God knows nobody sells AM parts for a EVO/Talon conversion)
$1500 to reinstall your old sh!t cause you realize that it just ain't gonna happen.
You sell everything to some guy for $1500 and your now in the hole $9000
This post is just for a little humor, but really, you must have a lot of money.

did we make this guy leave?

Where are you Richard?(richard richard richard, ecoing in the club;))

AMin

Werre'nt you the one wanting to install a stand alone in your WRX? And you were supposed to have the fastest car around? What happened to it?