This quote from the VRSF thread got me back into thinking about the issues with my car:



My car runs hotter than the infernos of hell.

Not going to list all the mods (like fuel, electronics, mounts and stuff) but I'll list the pertinent ones and maybe someone can offer some insight.

-Stock 14b turbo currently running wastegate spring pressure (i.e. no boost controller)
-Stock 6-bolt Block w. BSD
-Stock head w. ARPs and Brian Crower 272 cams
-All new gaskets, new gates waterpump, new knock sensor, etc.
-Ported O2 Housing, Hot Side and Exhaust Manifold
-3" turbo-back exhaust (incl. downpipe)
-A/C Delete (i.e. no condenser)
-VRSF FMIC kit exactly as installed above

Got the car put together, was running original 20-year old rad ('92), only had one fan and no shroud. My fans are *always* on.
Was running hot as hell so I removed the stock 195F thermostat and put in a 165, it definitely helped but still ran hot and after a few short runs in boost would be in the 200s easily, even on cool nights. The few weeks I've actually had to drive the car have been spent almost entirely with heat on full blast, including the drive to & from the Shootout. Yes, it runs that hot (high 190's - 21x even during the drive to the S/O).

Current status - original rad started leaking while car was awaiting a tranny rebuild, so I got an aluminum rad with full shroud and 2 slim fans. Only 1 fan currently wired up as I installed the rad to drive her home and put her away for the winter. Will be wiring up the 2nd fan soon. Hopefully this will help a lot of my overheating problems (haven't had much opportunity to test it yet, as my drive home was done early November when it was nice and cool) but I'm not banking on it.

I want to road-race this car but I'm not even considering it right now given that she runs that hot cruising on the highway.

Any ideas/things to check/suggestions/etc.?

is your thermostat working correctly?

I would like to see this too. I was under the assumption that below 200 for temperature was good! I get to 210 max when cruising on hot days, so I am a little worried about putting on my VRSF.

Was also going to grab some water wetter for the summer, has anyone had any luck with this. Do I run it will water and coolant or just water?

You always want some coolant unless your running it for another application, coolant also lubricates.

Thermostat is working correctly and thermostat orientation has been verified correctt. Also, the system has been *thoroughly* bled.

The week or two I had her running before the Shootout I was just running distilled water in case of leaks/etc. (and water should keep it cooler). Since just prior to the SO, I have been running a coolant/water mix. I also have water wetter to use when I take her out of storage.

As for temps, cruising, I may see low 200's on the highway now, with everything I've done, but what's going to happen when I'm in boost ALL day at the track. I do a few 3rd gear pulls on a cold night and the temps just start shooting wayyyy up.

I'm using the stock 195 thermostat, and on average my coolant temps are between 196-203. I pulled up a log from last summer, and after a 2nd-3rd gear pull revving as high as 7,829 my coolant tepms were 193 during, and shortly after increased to 196, 200, then back down to 196.

I never have problems with moving, it's only if I'm in traffic on hot days that my tepms get to about 203, but never really hotter even if I'm stopped on the 401 for 20 minutes idling.

My stock fan is running like it would on a stock car, in other words I don't have it wired to be on all the time or on a switch.

Is your ECT reading correctly? If your overheating on the highway it is most probably not a fan issue since the wind rushing over your rad is wayyy more then any fan could pull.

Are you sure you don't have a head gasket problem? or a bad rad cap(t-stat housing cap)if it can't hold pressure it will lower your boiling point. check the seals on the cap aswell anything swollen or misshapen get a new cap(could also be sings of head gasket problem)

ECT seems to be reading correctly based on readings I've gotten.

Engine has a new OEM headgasket (installed by person I bought it from, but never ran until I got the engine) with new ARPs and the Brian Crower 272s. What kind of HG problem would I have and what should I be looking for?

As for the rad cap, I've put a new one on that has a good/fresh seal. No noticeable pressure drops anywhere in the system.

Water pump is new, as mentioned, all new gaskets for the whole engine, all new timing components, etc.


Edit: I'm curious to see how temps will be with the new rad. Is it possible the original rad was just damaged/clogged with crap to work efficiently? I mean, it started leaking just from sitting - can't imagine it was in great working order.

If you haven't had a chance to run it hot with the new rad, I wouldn't think too much about it just yet. It looks like you've gone over everything anyways. Stock for stock, it's the 2Gs that have the mystery cooling problems. Your old rad was probably plugged. Been there!

Probably the rad. Don't over diagnose until you test it out with the new rad.

If you still experiance overheat then worry about it. Was asuming you still had the issue after a new rad was installed.

Also if you have A/C and on 1 fan delete the A/C or at least check the condition of your condensor. Fins should be nice and straight and core should be good and clean.

All A/C components are completely removed from the car other than the 'snowflake' button inside the car.

I did drive the car with the new rad for 2 days during early November and it still ran pretty hot whenever I got into boost a little, even though it was relatively cool outside - it just cooled down faster. Mind you, what temperatures should I be aiming for?

Maybe I'm being unrealistic in never wanting to hit 200+ except under the most strenuous conditions. A pull or two putting me above that in cool November weather is not my idea of good cooling.

I didn't have any more time with the new rad than those 2 short days, but I still feel the issue's there based on those 2 days. Or at the very least, worth discussing in case it is there.

http://www.ca.dsm.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=336841#Post336841



HTH

How do you know for sure these temps are accurate? I once had an engine I could never figure out the overheating issue, but it was pushing coolant out the overflow.

Are you pushing any coolant?

I finally determined I had a cracked head or something, and well I swapped out the NT for a turbo'd 4g63.

Not pushing any coolant or have not able to detect if I have.

Thanks for the link Ryan; it's definitely a very good summary and I've read that page numerous times before - still haven't gotten any solid leads yet, though. I'm hoping the new rad makes a decent difference...after that, I'm lost. I will do ducting, but I shouldn't need to.

there was a fan that was mentioned when I was doing some research that pulls 3000 cfm (or whatever the measurement is) maybe look at one of those if you are really desperate and definitely a fan shroud will help.

I've got a full shroud with dual slim fans (one still needs to be wired up). The fans will do a lot more for me at idle/slow speeds. At highway speeds the fans won't have much effect.

are still running water or do you have a proper coolant mix now?

whats you mix?

Sometime you can smell exhaust vapours in your recovery tank and sometimes the is sludge if you have a bad head gasket.

How's your tune? You will need ductwork with your setup for sure.

When was the last time your water pump was changed and what kind of pump did you use?

Is your turbo/exhaust covered?

Try a 75/20/5 mix of water/coolant/water wetter respectively.

Gonna start my tune from scratch again this Spring/Summer but it was okay the few weeks I had the car running, that is until my wideband decided to quit.

The water pumps is *brand new*, bought form JNZ. It is a Gates if I recall correctly - Ghiz ordered it for me when he did his JNZ order last summer. The engine went in with ALL new gaskets, new water pump, new BSD, fresh ARPs, etc.

The turbo has the stock heat shields over it, but that's it. I'm only running the little 14b. She runs hot even at idle with never moving/hitting boost.

As for my mixture, it was similar to that - it's a little higher coolant now because of the winter (not taking chances of blowing frost plugs) but it'll probably be a 2:1 water:coolant mix come Spring, plus water wetter of course.



Stephen, by recovery tank I assume you mean overflow tank? I'll have to open it up and take a whiff, but I can't recall any noticeable 'off' smells.

Thanks for all the insight everyone. Hopefully I can get this figured out so I can drive around without heat on full blast on 20C+ days :S

You might want to consider installing a large 14" pusher fan that runs all the time. You could also install a metal scoop underneath the rad which will draw air to it (having done this I can tell you it helps). Installing a hood vent above your turbo will certainly help dissipate that nasty hot air. Switching to a tube and fin intercooler in place of the bar and plate would help to cool your rad better (stock EVO's for instance). Lastly ( if all else fails), find the biggest sidemount you can find (Supra for example) and say bye to overheating for good.

To bring this back from 'the dead'.

Car is out and have been dd'ing her (for the first time!) since Saturday.

Still having the incredibly high running temp issue. A little bit of boost (not even one pull worth) and she shoots up into the 200's...the only thing saving me right now is the cold temps cooling her down reasonably quickly and me cranking up the heat. If we had been having even mild summer weather I'd be screwed.

Thermostat is a 165F.
The cap is good.
The coolant overflow bottle and associated lines are well below thermostat housing level.
Mixture is probably in the 80/20 range (water/coolant) and also has a bottle of water wetter in it.
Coolant system is bled and flows well (with rad cap off you can see thermostat open and the coolant flowing).
One rad fan is wired for always on, the other one will be wired in to be always on by the end of this weekend as well. (An under-dash switch to be wired in at a later date).

Remember, this is all with a brand new aluminum rad (happened with the old one too, though), new water pump, etc.

I do have every intention of doing ductwork but I should not need to, not to mention that I believe ductwork is only going to hide the actual problem, which is bad given that I plan to roadrace the car and need her to run every bit as cool as possible. What I'm seeing is far outside of the norm, especially for a tiny little 14b. Look at Lucian's situation:



And then try to tell me that it's because I don't have ducting. I'm pretty sure he's running a bigger FMIC core than me!

I would look more at your fans than. What is there CFM rating and do you have them shrouded?

I have a full shroud and if I remember correctly, they are 1200CFM? Would have to check though.

When driving at speed, though, the fans have far less to do with cooling, if much at all. The airflow from driving makes a MUCH bigger difference.

What are you running for oil?

Opps meant to post this here

Borrow or buy a cheap thermal gun, or replace your temp sender with known good one to confirm that reported temperatures are accurate?

That is really wierd Salomon... I took my car out of storage about a week ago and I've been DD'ing it since as well. I've been datalogging it a lot lately (trying to tune it) so I have logs of WOT pulls, cruise, idle, etc and I've only seen it jump to 196 or so a couple of times. It hangs in the 180's on average, but has fluctuated between say 180-195 depending on the driving.

Here is the intercooler I'm using on the car:



Also regarding the burping... You're letting it burp out until there is no more bubbles right? I usually let mine burp for 20-30 minutes, until nothing comes out anymore.

Bad radiator or a leak somewhere?

I have the VRSF kit (haven't bothered putting the bumper support back in and am running short route piping) but my FMIC setup is definitely no more restrictive than your's. I did not let her burp nearly that long but will do so tonight after work in hopes of catching any last air pockets that may be in the system.

The thing is, if I'm just driving her around town with no boost at all she'll stay around/in the mid-high 160's (due to 165F thermostat and cold weather), but as soon as there is ANY boost, the temps SKYROCKET. (In the summer, though, she just runs hot as hell no matter what.) Perhaps this fact will help point to the cause?

Michael, no leaks to be seen/found and no traces of any leaks of any sort. If it's leaking, it's such a tiny amount that it would be measured in hours per drop As for the rad, it's brand new...have not seen any signs of a rad blockage with it so I doubt it's that. :S

i had the same FMIC and my car ran hot as hell too. It blocks most of the air flow to the rad. Build some ducting or try something like this....

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/224201-how-i-lowered-my-coolant-temps-6-degrees.html

Nathan: My thermostat is a 165F and in this weather my car stays in the 161-169F range unless I go into boost, so I'm assuming that the sensor is fairly accurate, not to mention it was a known good one. That being said, I do have a temp gun and will try and remember to test your suggestion out when I'm at home this weekend.

Tim, as I mentioned, I do have *every* intention of doing a fully ducted setup, but that's because I plan to road-race and it's also just good to have. That being said, I really shouldn't need ducting just to cruise around town or down the highway without nearly overheating, which is pretty much what's happening now. I did the whole drive to the Shootout and back last year with heat on full blast so she wouldn't die on me.

That's wierd that it's only climbing under boost..

Is your intake pipe heat wrapped and away from the engine?

maybe your water pumps going and its under load and not boost.

I put on a brand new water pump when I did all the timing components and engine gaskets, etc. while the engine was out of the car.

I haven't even put 4k on the car, most of which was to/from/at the Shootout last Fall and it's been giving me this problem right from the start (i.e. as soon as I fired her up the first time).

Bryan, my intake pipe is the stock piece of junk (got a nice one one the way) but my intake temps are very low (cold weather), so I know it's not that, not to mention I can probably count on one hand the number of DSMs I've seen with heat-wrapped intake pipes

LOL that's true.
Any chance your intercooler is heat soaking?
What oil are you running?

I highly doubt heat soak, especially considering even just one pull cranks the coolant temps up. One pull on a 14b is not going to cause the IC to heatsoak when the car was at maybe 170F before the pull, not to mention when the IC is as big as the VRSF and the temps are as cold as they are right now. The fact it still does this in these temperatures is what's killing me.

If I can barely boost in 5-10 degree weather without running crazy hot, how the hell am I going to track her on a 30C+++ hot, sunny summer day for extended periods of time?!?!?!

I'm currently running Royal Purple 10W-30.

I wonder if you have something like a hairline crack in the head or something, that only becomes evident when under boost. Causing the compression to escape into the cooling system. I'm just talking out of my ass here, but I don't see anything else that makes sense to me! Everything as you indicate is good and perfect the way it should be, yet you're still having problems.