Now I'm really curious as to what's going to happen in my situation. Although I don't NEED one this year (I think), I may just play with the idea of testing my car to see how it will perform and what I may need to do to pass.

1. Motor in my car is a '91 tsi. Have documentation for this, and submitted it to Oil Changers the last test performed so that enabled me to run as "hot rod status". Which doubled the limits from 150 to 300.

2. My ECU is from a '95 tsi.

3. My car is a '99.

I don't currently have my cat installed but I will when the time comes.

I'm also not running a front O2, I have my aem wb there and am currently simulating O2 function. How will this affect the diagnostic check?

I'm with you Rob, moving up north is becoming an attractive idea.

I'll chime in.

When they plug into the OBD port, they are looking for no faults and sensor readiness. Sensor readiness means that the vehicle has completed a drive cycle (specific actions like; idling, highway driving at constant rpm, and stop and go), and is utilizing these sensors for proper fueling and emissions adaptations and optimization.

This means that the short term and long term fueling trims have adapted, catalyst is within it's efficiency range and is working correctly. They don't need the tail pipe sniffer because the cars are 'smart' enough, if there is no codes, then it's more than likely outputting low enough emissions. If there is a CEL, then there is most likely bad emissions being output.

Now for example. A car could pass without emissions equipment. We'll say, for example, I have a friend who has a 03 EVO 8 with 1000cc injectors, GT35R, Meth injection, Speed density conversion, No cat and no post cat O2. It is tuned on a Stock ECU with an Open source type system. This system has the option to 'Force Readiness' (which most do). You need to take a copy of the stock map, Force readiness on all sensors that are not existent, or would cause a CEL (Some have the option to force on all sensors, or individual sensors) and then go do a new emission test.

When the Drive Clean facility scans the car, they will see no CEL and Sensor readiness. This results in a pass and voila!

Funny enough, it's easy to pass a 2 speed idle. This same car passed a 2 speed idle legitimately 2 years ago. Also did my WRX With a STI swap and no Cat.

So all the new cars will fail if they have a CEL. And all the old cars that wouldn't pass on a dyno, will now have a better chance with a 2 speed idle.

Now this is just from my one experience. I haven't seen the 2 speed idle done, and I'm not sure that it's the same or different than before.

A picture of our new machine and test bay at work;





I'm going to be attempting my "e-test and tune" here

And to further add, we had an '08 TSX fail today because it had a new battery installed YESTERDAY!

Do we know anything yet about the 2 stage idle test for pre-'95 cars? I'm wondering if the limits have changed at all? Or if they even test for NOX anymore?

No NOx at Idle or 2500rpm. You need a load to make NOx. They will only be testing CO and HC.

Hmmm... they've certainly made it easier. There must be a catch

Yeah $35 plus tax. I think they figure there aren't as many older cars around anymore and the first wave of etesting cleaned out most of the gross emitters. And Lets face it a 95 vehicle pretty old these days.

My 2004 PT failed the test due to me clearing a cel on the way to drive clean Fortunately a local DSMer and I felt we should go in Dec because of uncertanity and I'm glad we did! They had to test us the old way but were not happy, but hey, we passed. Now to fix that cel issue before my next test in 2015

frack! not good. My MDX started a P0420 cel for "cat low efficiency"..which is odd, considering I only bought it at the beginning of December and had the e-test come back with all zero's. But that e-test is still valid for 12 months and my bday is this april. So either my '04 MDX or '99 GSX will need testing.

It looks like it's the "even" years being tested this year.

P0420 is odd on an 04. But many many Acura's pass with a 420 on the old system. Thats why they came out with the software update. But as far as I remember 04 doesn't apply. There is a non-detection update but I don't think that will fix her for you.

OK so my 98 with a 95-96 eprom and full link with V3 and a built 6 bolt. Does it need all the FPS, EGR, boost control solenoid BS? I followed the whole thread but with limited tests so far it has confused me. I dont know what I need to have hooked up when I do the swap, and if there is anything I can clean up, or if I should keep it all and tuck it in the interior under the dash or something. Is there specific sensors link can turn off and allow the test to be run if I cannot obtain hot rod status?

OK so hears some info on hot rods.. But what kinda proof receipts do we need if we bought the motor off a buddy and installed it our selves?

Can I get a garage to make up some reciepts?..If I know a friendly Garage. Or a fake receipt suggesting they installed the motor in 1998.. the year after my car was built? If I can do that then i never have to etest this car!

Other then that this might get tricky.
http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/environment/en/category/drive_clean/STDPROD_098201.html#1999

Alright Im good according to this.. I have a 97 so I just do the idle test.

http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/environment/en/category/drive_clean/STDPROD_075681.html

Yup, the split is after the '97 model year. All the 2gs had OBD2, but not all cars were swapped over until '98. It's only the '98-'99 that really take the reaming.

As for your situation Mike... sorry but as soon as I realized I do the idle test, I stopped looking into it.

I think it is more the fact of 98 and up setting readiness monitors. Pre 98 didn't have that capability. The first obd 2 systems were pretty basic with many variations between manufacturers it wasn't till 98 that they revised all the systems and certain perameters manditory for all manufacturers. 1996 was when all cars had to have the OBD2 connector instead of whatever they were using before. Some even keep both for a period of time until they have all communicate thru the OBD2 connector.

So what... pre 97 dsms are more valuable then 98s and 99s now? Or are the 98s and 99s gonna become more rare cause there gonna become part outs.

I got an e-mail stating that if no DTC's are present in the vehicle but it receives "not ready" monitors, we have to tell the customer to do the "drive cycle" stated in the brochure and to come back in 24hrs. When it comes back, test it, if it get's "not ready" on the first retest, immediately retest it and it will give you a conditional pass. There's some other bullshit if you wanna resell it but yeah... There going to start implementing that tomm(feb 7th).

Just make sure your cat works and your solenoids are plugged in. That's all you need really. The ECU cannot tell whether or not the EGR opened or not. The solenoids are just on/off switches, they have no feedback to the ECU.

^^^
I thought the MDP sensor on a 2G provides the EGR feedback.

You'll need to do an OBDII scan, as said earlier, you should be allowed to have 2 readiness tests not complete & still pass. The 2g's DSM's only have 4 (99's mights have 5), our ecu is basic. Swapping ecu's is not a problem as the VIN isn't programmed into the ecu.

Fire up link & look at the state of the readiness tests. If your CEL is off & you only have one or two tests not showing complete, you should be fine.

If you disconnect the battery or clear the cel codes with a programmer, you will fail the scan as the ecu needs enough driving time to re-complete the readiness tests. Any car will fail if you do this.

You will likely have to have most sensors connected but not always. As I said, my cat effiency test completes all the time & I'm using the rear O2 sensor input to log WB.

If you are throwing a cel, you might be able to disable that test in link to prevent the cel. The readiness test wont complete but if you have enough other tests complete, you should still be able to pass. Unless their OBDII scan can tell that the test has been manually turned off.

I haven't done a new test but from what I'm seeing it won't be hard for most to pass (& some could even pass that wouldn't with the old system). Non OEM ecu's will likely be a problem though.

The hot rod specification is only supposed to be allowed if you run a motor that was never available in your specific vehicle. I tried having my built motor tested under hot rod before but since it was still a 2L, it didn't qualify.

Correct

Yours is the one case that still confuses me.

I believe the '95 ECU has 4 readiness monitors?

Based on what Daren and Nick said you should be able to have 2 in 'not ready' state and you can still pass the OBDII computer check. If that's true it should be pretty easy even without all of the solenoids in place.

But based on what Roman said and what I've been hearing about in the news, people are being turned away by the dealer if they have monitors in a 'not ready' state. They're told to come back after going through the crazy readiness cycle.

In the end I think you'll probably be OK - they might make you do the 2 stage idle test. But right now it's not clear.

I probably missed it, but where does this come from? Does Driveclean produce a list of cars / models and how many readiness tests they can have incomplete?

I'm wondering how likely the average tech is to know about that...

I believe it's universal: all cars are allowed 2 readiness tests not complete and still pass. The variable is the number of readiness tests on the ECU.

98-2000 are allowed 2 not ready monitors, while 2001+ are only allowed 1 not ready monitor. Its in the brochure.

I was told this by my mechanic when I had my test done last fall & he went over a bunch of the new test specifics with me. I believe it would be universal but the universal is only for one readiness test to not complete. There are certain vehicles that had issues setting all monitors even when the car was 100% functioning/stock. We got lucky & DSM's happen to be one of the problem vehicles & were allowed for up to two readiness tests not complete.

The tech (was the owner) knew Mitsu was a problem & was allowed 2. I did some reading back when I first heard about the change to our testing. Mitsu had a problem that the CAT readiness test would not always set properly, even with using their own specific "driving sequence". Then there were also some ecu's that would set the readiness test but then lose the complete state after the car was turned off.

Driving around before test, or coming back to test after driving around would be for anyone who recenly cleared CEl's with either a programmer or disconnecting the battery. After clearing my codes,I can always set atleast two typically within about a 30min mixed drive.

Do you still have your rear o2 plugged in and just T'd the wb input to the rear o2?

OK, good info, thanks guys. I believe that you're right about the # of readiness tests, I just can't find it in any of the official docs they've posted: http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/environmen...library&txtSearchValue=Drive%20Clean

But then again most of the docs haven't been updated...

It seems the DSM guys came out pretty well in this change. The people that are going to have trouble are those with a '98-'99 with AEM or another standalone. Those folks should start making plans...

Readiness Monitors

Its just under the Understanding Readiness subtitle.

Thanks Nick, mystery solved.

Rear O2 is physically installed but no, its not wired to the ecu, just the WB is wired to that input to log in link. So somehow the WB voltage matches the stock sensor enough to complete the readiness test.

Strangely enough, I've even set the EVAP/EGR/MDP readiness test from time to time. I believe I'm logging my Apexi 4bar on the MDP input

As I said, an OBDII scan on a DSM should not be that hard to pass

Hey what happens if you have an OBDII car that's not "ready" and you've used all of your trip permits for the year? SOL until next year? Or do they make you tow it to the rollers?

I think my mechanic said you had the option to try the sniffer test if you can't pass the OBDII scan but not sure on that.

You find a real buddy of a mechanic... and glue a vtec valve cover onto your talon motor and suggest that you swapped in a honda motor back in 1997.

So, this is good for 89-92 Colts with a 4g63 swap. I've been tested (C53a 1989 Plymouth Colt Turbo) 3 times as Hot Rod because legitimately a 4g63 was not an option in the car, 6 or 7 bolt, anywhere in the world.
The old rules were set for a displacement other than the one originally installed in the car type deal. So, 4g15 (1.5L) swapped to whatever else, meant you were Hot Rod and held to 1980 or earlier emissions tables.

Good to hear this is working out favorably for most people, at least on paper anyways. I had really been biting my nails over this, since I heard buddies were now testing with new machines.

My car has full emissions equipment but lumpy cams, and is chipped. The cams are what make for a shitty idle from emissions points of view, otherwise it puffs squeaky clean out the tailpipe.

When testing a car that is lumpy at idle (ISC has a hard time keeping up, in my case 13" of vacuum according to gauges) and has no feedback to the OBD/ECU in this regard based upon accelerator input, you can make this work for you.

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After a 2500 test you come back down to idle.
Have the tester keep their foot on the accelerator so your idle drops down to just over 1000/maybe more (window last I checked allowed for </1200 RPM max). This keep the ISC out of the loop, and you will puff clean as a whistle (sans spit).
This has been the only saving grace of a car not able to be read by the machine/ECU for throttle input percentage, and spark reading via old school coil plug-on pickup.
Shop has no issue for liability and DriveClean will not see if on camera. Explain this to the tech and see if they are copesetic (sp).


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I Beleive I read 99 and older your aloud 4 monitors not ready. If that all fails I think you are aloud a 2 stage idle for conditional pass only(ownership transfers have to pass with atleast 4 not ready). 00-01 are aloud 2 monitors not ready. 02 and up are alloud no monitors in not ready state.

Luckily I have a scangauge in my car is no cel and all monitors are ready. =] Kinda nice to know before hand it will pass.

I believe there are alot of apps for obd2 scaners If they are close to this they will tell you if the monitors not ready and you can have before hand knowledge if you will pass or not.

Sooooo, to clarify (I don't believe I got a solid answer on this one) us V3 guys running everything in "readiness" should be clear?

Not sure about your readiness test, think 2g's only have 4 tests, their not going to allow you to fail them all

2g's should be allowed to have 2 tests not set & pass. Newer cars are less but not sure the specifics.

AFAIK, if all your readiness monitors are set in link (or two or less are not set), you should pass OBDII scan no problem (as long as no CEL showing)

Take the bulb out.

Likely won't work. Believe the CEL needs to cycle on then off when they start the car. If the CEL never turns out, think its an automatic fail.