This setup just blows my mind.

It also blows hot air

True but I would love to see his dyno printout to see how hard and when the power comes on.

I think he said something 600-650?

well if AMS tried it and said it was way tooo complicated and switched back to a single turbo to make 1000hp... i think it woukd seem like a novelty. if i were to twin charge.. id throw a intake based supercharter and a huge turbo.

That was done by Paul Volk on tooners, I think he was getting full boost(40ish psi) somewhere around 4k rpm coupled with stupid amounts of torque. He has since sold that setup and started to work on a more refined version.

Wasn't there someone here who attempted a compound turbo set up?

Not sure if it was ever completed or not.

A couple guys on this board tried it. It didn't work out as expected so nothing came of it.

A great compound setup using holsets. Winner of the dse class at the shootout

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dsm-build-journals/426339-compound-turbo-setup-holset-style.html

Mike Kuttschrutter was running a compound setup up until a while ago.

This is AMS project.


I think they had it set up to run the small turbo, then it shut off and the big turbo opened up.

The AMS setup is/was sequential, not compound.

Here is my setup:








I figured I could make a simple version without all the pipe routing across to the other side of the engine bay.

I never got to drive it on the road and make boost. I studder box'd that sh!t and the thing sounded like a jet getting ready to take off.

Once I get SD setup on a different engine management I will throw the compound setup back on.

That AMS setup is odd... I don't see how that would work without a messy transition.

And thats what they seaid, It was biult for the TOP SHOP CHALLANGE. it worked but it was too hard to get tuned in time. They ended up just using the big turbo and won the compitition.

Its got a series of cut-out valves that would cut the big turbo off from the whole equasion.

And Salomon... sequential... compound.... Its 2 turbos working together that made 1000hp.

A suturn guy I knew did a proper compound turbo set-up.

He actually ran each turbo off 2 seperate exaust ports. did the math and everything to figure out which port fired to get proper amount of gases to each turbo so they would act the same. If you know what i mean..

Sequential and compound are two very different things. To the untrained eye they look similar but that's about it. It'd probably be more fruitful for anyone interested in the difference to search it rather than have me try to explain it...

That wouldn't be a proper compound if the exhaust was split into 2 seperate turbos... And the compressed air coming out of each turbo meet. That is a twin turbo setup....

Mike beat me to it! As Salomon said, all these use two turbos but all are very different and have there own advantages and disadvantages.

ya but none of them can do more then a single large bb turbo could do. its just adding way to much complication. why do ya think twin turbo supra guys ditch there setups all the time!

I think the compound setup is for powerband and not everything is for drag racing.

isn't a variable flowing turbo a cheaper method to get boost from a lower rpm??

I wonder if any one has put one of these ^^ in a DSM?

Cool stuff Mike, I have never seen something like that before!

Ya, the compounds are for early power and a near linear torque curve.

IMO a better way to go for that earlier spool and still big topend is a Holset VGT turbo and this controller:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EDCKvkQoaE

I kinda wish I went this route, but we will see how the compound setup does first.

After speaking with one of Ford's lead Powertrain Engineers this past year about variable vane technology, it seems that it is only now starting to become viable for gas engines, as the temperatures of the exhaust gases are significantly higher than diesel applications and have caused significant reliability problems. They (the industry) has been working on coming up with many new materials/alloys that are supposed to be able to withstand the heat reliably for the life of a vehicle.

Oh, I never thought of that. Maybe why I haven't seen them used very much.

the only reason I knew about VFT's is because the 1st gen Acura RDX (2007-2012) comes with one. It's a 2.3L 4 cylinder that produces 240hp and 260trq. you can hear it spooling at 1000rpm under maybe 10-15% throttle. neat stuff IIRC, it runs 14psi up to 4500rpm then tapers off to 9psi. I wonder if an MBC would correct that tapering "issue"

I know Hondata makes a chip and for roughly $300 (sending them your ECU), you can get an extra 60hp bringing the RDX to 300hp, prob 320-330trq.

edit: and this is a GAS engine, so it looks like this may be the way of the future...?

Like I said, it has only recently become a viable option for gasoline-engined vehicles. Reliability was always the main concern, so I guess they've come up with a good solution. That being said, I would NOT suggest someone try fitting a diesel VFT/VGT on their gas-powered car as it would not end well. To use a turbo with this technology you need to use one developed specifically for gasoline applications, of which there are few and they are really goddamn expensive.

That is a wee baby turbo. Honda also used them on their jet ski's. I really doubt if anyone is taking boost lesson from Honda.

On a side note VFT have been around along time as well as variable displacement only thing is you need the control over them to make them work.

Kind of reminds me of a variable vane system. http://aerocharger.com/technology.php

This technology is also commonly used in Turbo jet engines.

^ Yup, I've worked with a couple of those theories and mechanisms

If you find a cheaper way then one of those, let me know

Well I know some of the 911 porsche models used VFT's and after some research they were apparently the first to use them on gas engines back in 2006.

I would love to see one of these on a DSM

But they stopped pretty quickly afterwards because of the issues I mentioned with reliability in the high temperature environment presented by gasoline exhaust gases. It's funny you mentioned this case, because it was the exact same one the Ford guy mentioned to me when I asked about the technology.

There's a guy over on Tuners working on getting a VGT Holset working on his DSM. Certainly an interesting concept.

I really like the idea of Compounds though and it's something I'd like to try out one of these days.

Do you have a link to the thread by any chance?

Honda actually used it for 5 years on the RDX. I think they are still using it on other products.

I have to say I have never seen or heard of an issue with the turbo's.

Could just be a FORD thing. I know I know ford quality is job 1. As long as they are not on break.

I'll dig it up in the AM. It's 1:30 and I need to sleep.

Something related to this topic from 1990: http://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo_vnt.html

Back from the dead!
Had the compounds whistling away on sunday night around town.
Only sporting 15ish psi at the moment. But I am confident this little setup will be seeing 20+psi of boost by 3000rpm.

The feeling is quite amazing. The small turbo hits the 15psi mark no problem, but as the larger turbo begins to take over and screaming like a jet, it feels as if you are continually boosting, even though it holds at 15 the entire time .

I will post my logs, and results as my tuner and I start digging into this further and getting that boost turned up.

Damn Mike! I didn't know you put the compound setup back on!
Very cool!