Got a new set of exhaust manifold studs coming in with my FP Race Manifold that I'm picking up tomorrow (:D).

Just want to ask for any tips on removing the current studs so as to avoid broken studs in the head (I really, REALLY don't want to have to pull the head, nor can I afford to do a HG job right now).

As for installation, I was thinking of throwing on some ultra high-heat (the fancy copper stuff) anti-seize on the studs, but I read that on the 6-bolts one of the studs contacts an oil passage?

Is this true? If so, which one is it and should I throw on some copper RTV or something to help it seal?

For installing the new studs, is there a certain depth?

From this list here it says that ~28mm of the stud should be protruding from the head - is this correct? Also, the torque for the exhaust stud nuts is ~20ft-lbs, correct?

And lastly, to verify, the manifold to turbo bolts should be torqued to ~ 45ft-lbs, correct? (No anti-sieze or anything here. New OEM bolts and lock washers being used).

The mani-turbo bolts are a torque to this and turn an additional X degrees style. Only use OEM bolts and the disc springs. I generally chase the threads with a tap to prevent them locking up on you.

Good chance your old turbo bolts are seized in there, depending on the last time the turbo was removed.

All my studs came out no problem YMMV.

It was out just before I put her away in the fall, so she's barely had any driving on it, so it shouldn't be TOO bad...hopefully. But I've never gotten a turbo off without at least one broken bolt in the hotside...

I learned my lesson with the ARP turbo bolts (GARBAGE) to stick to OEM. I've always used the OEM spring washers as well...got a new set coming with the manifold.

Do you know what the torque and 'x degrees' amount is?

And lastly, I always chase those threads and the O2 housing threads a few times before reinstalling cause I know how much of a PITA those bolts can be.

Heat them up first and remove them bit by bit in an alternating pattern. I heat them by idling the motor but if it's not in running condition I guess you could use some propane.

She's in running condition...was just beating on her a little earlier today to celebrate finishing exams. I've heard going for a drive and then pulling the bolts is the way to go, although I assume that really just means, loosen them enough so that they're not an issue anymore and then fully remove them when they're actually cool enough to touch.





Anyone know about the studs? Is there one that goes into an oil passage? Which one? Should I use RTV?

I think I had 4-5 snap on me. There was still enough thread to get 2 nuts on it so that I could back the stud out of the head.

Didn't have to drill/extract a single one, regardless of the breakages. Didn't use any heat.

I believe the center stud on the bottom is the one that has an oil passage behind it (double check; I'm not certain). As far as I know, the FP studs are the proper length so that you install them until the thread disappears. I torqued the nuts to tight

I've never heard of having to use thread sealant. I didn't use any.

Edit: When I searched for myself, I found 45ft-lbs on the turbo bolts was most frequently recommended (and is what is listed in the 1g Haynes manual).

The more you can turn them out while warm the better. Use fire gloves to go all the way. But really if you get them turning at all I think most of the battle is won

As for oil getting through, it could really be any of them depending on if there's been a thread repair done previously - drilling to repair the threads could put it deep enough. I used pipe joint compound on mine.

Grab a can of Turbogas High heat, It has a big more kick then BBQ fluid.

Torque specs are 44 for the charger to mani and 22 charger to o2 housing, never heard of the torque to yield spec

Neither did I (the T-to-Y spec), which is why I was surprised to hear that.


Rob, does the pipe joint compound stand up to the heat?...I feel like it wouldn't do too well in that kind of heat, which is why I suggested the ultra-high-heat copper anti-seize.

the T-to-Y was from my 2g hanes. I'll double check the mitsu manual in the morning ( I have it at work not home).

I use the copper on everything. Realistically I think even that doesn't do anything at those temps, but I feel like I have to try. It smokes like crazy the first time you get the turbo hot.

Yep, maybe its a 2g thing, mitsu manual says 20-23ft-lbs + 60-70 degrees.

I definitely remember reading that...but I didn't like it so I checked my 1g manual and found 44

Perhaps we're thinking of the head bolts when you say t to y...
+100 on breaking them when they're hot. I've messed up manya turbo bolt in my time and doing it this way was my only salvation.

Give me a shout. I should be free sat/sun afternoon.

Nope Johnny the spec I gave is straight from the 2G mitsu manual for turbo to manifold bolts.

Ok, cool. Then that extra 60-70 degrees seals the deal. That would alo be the reason for binding/difficulty removing.

I'll be in Belleville all weekend...going to try and get this all done today, and tomorrow morning if necessary. Here's to hoping they don't give me too much of a fight!

Cool man. I'm heading to work this afternoon so I'm out.

So I got all but one out...which conveniently broke in the head.

I've never actually removed (or even attempted to remove) a broken bolt/screw before. Any suggestions? What's everyone's preferred method?

My preferred method is call the machine shop and watch them do it.... Just make sire you have some good drill bits. Punch the centre as close as you can to centre. Start small and work your way up. And keep her straight.

I watched a video of this guy using a drill bit that was reverse threaded to extract a broken bolt.
Maybe see if you can find those, search youtube there is a video.

I have thoses.... they dont work that well. If it isnt siezed sometimes they will spin it out. But good luck.

So the stud broke off in the head and there is nothing sticking out?

If you do end up deciding to drill it out make damn well sure you get a good centre punched into it before you start. If your drill bit goes off centre you will tear through the head and end up with a mess.

I've had good sucess with welding on a piece of steel and using that to turn it out (never tried it there though).

Everyone has already said it. Do EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!! you can to stay centered or else you'll be in a world of hurt (maybe, not likely....) You really need to take your time. If you happen to get off center, just make sure you stay within the bolt. Do you have an extractor kit? I have a couple. I like to start with the smallest practical one, that way if you mess it up, you can always go up a size.
I'm free tomorrow afternoon if you're around, but I recall you saying your in Belleville. Let me know man.

Okay...bought some remover bits...they suck ass. I could see the bit twisting but the head not moving...so I vetoed that well before it busted in the head too.

Took a good 30 minutes just to drill into the bolt (I've got about 50+ centre punches, so finding one wasn't an issue)...

Once I decided against the remover, I just drilled 'er out and heli-coiled her, and the other hole that had gummed up threads too. The one that had the busted stud (yah...it wasn't flush, it actually broke off recessed...so it was even worse)may have been a hair off centre but my nice, new FP studs went in easy and my new FP manifold went on without a hitch, so they must be 'straight enough'. Just came on the comp to look up the proper torquing order for the manifold nuts.

On a sidenote...drilling out and helicoiling a turbine housing SUCKS. I had to do 3 of the 4 holes (manifold-to-turbo, the O2 housing holes are good) and it takes FOREVER. Never again...


Johnny, if I don't get her finished in the morning (unlikely), I'll be working on her again tomorrow night. I've got to head out to Tillsonburg for a 3pm meeting, then I'm stopping in Loo on the way back and then home. Really hoping to have her done to make the drive tomorrow but we'll see...

Keep me in the loop man.
I really like heli-coils, but damn they're $$ and drilling into the turbine housing or O2 housing? F that...

The drilling was the easy part...tapping took me years...

I borrowed the sets from Jeremy. I definitely owe him...but don't tell him I said that.

Haha...manifold is torqued down. Turbo is bolted up and torqued down.

This will be the first time I've ever had my exhaust manifold and/or turbo held on by all bolts...and all torqued down to proper values. For the 1 turbo bolt I couldn't get at with a socket and for the manifold nuts I couldn't get at with a socket, I just did my best to tighten as evenly as possible....I'm excited!

Best way to deal with broken studs...

Got to hate when that happens


Equipment:

Drill

few quality drill bits

stud extractors set

kirner (don't know how to call it in English) something made of steel that has a pointy sharp end

small socket from a wrench that will fit perfectly on a hole of the head, then you drill a hole with a drill bit that will match the kirner perfectly



Place the kirner in, hit it with a hammer (so you dent the stud exactly in the center)

Take the drill make a deep enough hole

Get the extractor kit and some patience

And hopefully
[img]http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2761/dsc00648m.jpg[/img]

If that doesn't work ... you have a perfect center whole. Drill as much without f****** up the thread and make a new thread.

Brilliant, never thought of that!

That is a good idea. If the still has thread sticking out. But then heat and vise grips work aswell.

Sometimes if you lucky you can use the centre punch to tap the stud loose by tapping around the perimeter of it, but that doesnt happen too offten.

Good job Sal. Glad you got her fixed up.

The "kirner" is a centre punch in english. The left hand drilling and the tapping around the perimeter will generally ONLY work if the part is not seized in there, just happened to break off (like from overtightening, but the bolt had never hit bottom). If it is seized, drilling and re-tapping are pretty much your only options. Heat can help. Heat the bolt itself(not the area around it), and wait about 3-5 minutes after heating before trying to remove it. The EZ outs (screw extractors) don't even bother with a cheap set, you will end up breaking that off in the hole. It is worth investing in a GOOD set.

I see your "kirner" is a plunger from a diesel injector, very hard, makes a great center punch.

I like this guy Nice writeup. Zvonko your english is better than most of the rest of us!

Indeed, fantastic writeup.

The set of extractors I picked up was a cheap set from CT, and as I mentioned, I could see it twisting while the stud stayed motionless, so I stopped that immediately. Drilling and retapping was really quite simple and very effective. All my helicoils in the head and the turbine housing held up to the proper torque without issue.

hhehehe yea it is



You should only hear me talk XD

I can pick up accents like nobody ... a lot of ppl think I am screwing around with them XD

Dammit ... just thinking about all the tools I will have to leave behind makes me wanna cry
Or hire a C-17 and take my garage with me XD

Pack it up and send it all sea freight, might not be too expensive....

I am gonna have to take a few pictures of my garage ... I don't think it would even fit in one container.

2 CNC machines(one small one big)
2 Geared head drill press
1 Drill Press
Big stand Cut-Off Saw
...

Around 15m of workbench with tool wall stuffed with various tools.

+ the biggest problem of all

Don't have the cash to move all that atm. But I will move that to CA one day.
In the meantime I hope some of you guys in GTA have a place to work in Will gladly help with anything... I don't think I would stay sane without a garage more then a month XD

What kind of CNC machines?

You will find the guys on this forum to be awesome, and someone will have a spot for you. If you are down Niagara Falls way, I could offer you use of some of my machines (as long as nothing is running on them at the moment).

I like you guys already, and can't wait to meet you

I just checked, container 40f would cost me around 3700$
If I have that amount when I move, I would rather buy Peter's Talon

Sorry about OT

Ups typo and lost in translation XD

I rushed in writing ... mine are not a CNC (al tho I worked on those)

I have the "manual" ones (don't know the name in English)
like these: