No Start Issue - 1ga Talon Tsi AWD
#449513
June 30, 2016 06:00 pm UTC
June 30, 2016 06:00 pm UTC
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 292 Woodbridge, Ontario
Danny Dias
OP
Serious Member
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OP
Serious Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 292
Woodbridge, Ontario
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Hello DSMers,
Back again with an issue that has plagued my 1g Talon ever since I purchased it. I am going to describe 2 different scenarios whereby the symptoms have been exhibited and a make-shift solution implemented that serves as a temporary fix, without a reasonable explanation as to the true cause of the recurring issue. I will leave it to you guys to propose viable theories on the root cause of the issue as well as potential solutions to fix it once and for all.
Scenario 1: Car is parked in my underground garage over night; i.e.'Cold Start'. I wake up in the morning, put the key in the ignition, starter motor turns the engine and it starts fine. I go to the grocery store and park the car for say 20 minutes. I come back and try to start the car; i.e. 'Warm Start'. The starter motor clicks but does not turn the engine. I roll the car forwards a few feet, pop it in 2nd, drop the clutch, push the clutch back in immediately after, then turn the ignition, start motor turns the engine, car starts fine. And I'm off.
This has been the case pretty much ever since I had the car in my possession. It is intermittent, with no real signs of why sometimes it happens and sometimes it does not. It should be noted that a brand new start was just installed and the grounding wires were fixed up. The only explanation I can think of for this is something involving mechanical resistance (of the engine?), since whenever I get the engine turning by dropping the clutch in gear, it seems to catch just fine.
Scenario 2: This one happened for the first time this morning. 'Cold Start' again. Woke up in the morning, went to start the car as usual, key in the ignition, starter motor turns the engine, but this time it does not catch; it just keeps rolling over. I tried giving her a little gas but still not luck. One time it caught on and was running for about 5 seconds before stalling. I thought this was air-fuel related, since I have done a few mods lately with the intercooler, MAF/T, AFC2, increase boost, but haven't tuned yet. So I was looking for a misplaced vacuum line or something. But everything seemed fine. Then I tried to do the 'roll' trick again, and low-and-behold, it works. Popped the clutch, turn the ignition and car starts fine again.
Scenario 2 pretty much negates my theory on mechanical resistance, since the engine was turning. This leads me to believe that the root cause is electrical signal-related or has to do with some sort of sensor pertaining to the movement of the vehicle/transmission/crankshaft.
So there you have it. Feel free to ask me any questions. I will try my best to be as responsive as possible in a timely fashion. Looking for ideas on root cause and solutions.
thanks,
Last edited by Danny Dias; June 30, 2016 06:10 pm UTC.
1990 Eagle Talon TSI AWD 2021 MB C43 AMG(daily driver)
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Re: No Start Issue - 1ga Talon Tsi AWD
[Re: Danny Dias]
#449515
June 30, 2016 09:02 pm UTC
June 30, 2016 09:02 pm UTC
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 126 PEI, Canada
Ben Stretch
Regular Member
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Regular Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 126
PEI, Canada
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+1 on that ^ I think scenario 2 is unrelated to your normal issue and you might have mutiple issues happening. Have you ever tried boosting (cables I mean. turning up the boost on a in-op car has proven to give poor results) it when hot and it doesn't turn over? If you tried this, without the roll bump manoeuvre first, and it went you could narrow it to battery and or starter. With cable and a jump it might give a bit of a push to a weak starter or battery. Also you could try checking your battery voltage before your first cold start and then with the car running. Maybe the alternator is not giving a good charge. Just my two cents and a couple of freebies. This link won't be helpful but might make you feel better. Try it now
1996 "Canary" Talon...give it any gas and it's dead
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Re: No Start Issue - 1ga Talon Tsi AWD
[Re: Danny Dias]
#449516
June 30, 2016 09:48 pm UTC
June 30, 2016 09:48 pm UTC
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398
Ajax, ON
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I almost have a feeling it is still another grounding issue, as when I cleaned up the grounds, it started fine. Could you add another ground cable from battery to firewall, then a second one from firewall to the starter bolt on the transmission to see if it makes a difference.
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Re: No Start Issue - 1ga Talon Tsi AWD
[Re: Danny Dias]
#451193
October 05, 2016 09:16 am UTC
October 05, 2016 09:16 am UTC
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,084 Halifax Nova Scotia
kent Hennigar
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,084
Halifax Nova Scotia
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I have a question. How many modifications have been made to the electrical system. (on your DSM) I have helped a number of people with no start problems on DSM's most of the times it is a bad ground. or a ground not hooked up / forgotten about in a rewire. probably not your case because it was running. i need you to think out side the box... for example i have gotten 3 or 4 DSM's to run were the owners were left frustrated and I boasted I would have it running in 30 min or less.(I also new the car though to be in sound working order) case of beer if you can do it buddy is what they said =) I found out there power wire for there fuel pump was not making my probe light glow.. thing is this fuel pump rewire was a new and well done mod but i find with the stereo wire 12 gauge it has a million little thin lines of copper all knitted together so any kind of load or draw on them those little fibers some times turn to powder thus good buy good ground or connection. fixed a 700 HP dsm in under 15 min with and Allan key and razor knife... also noted the car was rewired with a distribution block on fire wall. <(o.0)>
Just Because you are not paranoid dose NOT mean they are not out to get YOU !
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Re: No Start Issue - 1ga Talon Tsi AWD
[Re: Danny Dias]
#453092
May 04, 2017 01:06 pm UTC
May 04, 2017 01:06 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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Wow I had bad CTS wiring and it still didn't take me that long to start. Glad you got it fixed though!
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: No Start Issue - 1ga Talon Tsi AWD
[Re: Danny Dias]
#453558
August 02, 2017 02:07 am UTC
August 02, 2017 02:07 am UTC
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,322 Loc: Loc:
Rob Strelecki
morum foderator
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morum foderator
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,322
Loc: Loc:
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I had the same "no crank" problem as Danny for ages and I tried everything except the ignition switch. It was Reza who after all suggested the ignition switch to me as well, but my car has been parked for some time. Now I'm about to DSM again and got to thinking... 1) A new ignition switch is probably expensive. 2) A used ignition switch is an old and probably worn out ignition switch. I started reading about starter problems and voltage drop and why the ignition switch doesn't work. It's worn out and especially with everything on that circuit, it doesn't supply enough voltage to the trigger wire for the solenoid. That led me here: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Starter.shtml#OtherOptionsSo now the ignition switch only had to supply a milli-amp current to operate the relay and the relay supplies the higher current required by the solenoid (which in turn supplies the 100s of amps needed by the starter motor itself).I've done it with a $20 trip to Princess Auto Started very quickly on the first try. I'll post an update after some time on it.
1993 Eagle Talon TSi FWD 13.8 @ 106 :::: 14.1 @ 117
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