Well today figured would install a new water pump on my 97 just in case my engine is not fubar like think it is, but it was leaking water so bad thru the shot pump that hard to run it long enough to see what was up.

Observations..why did mits use so many darn bolts on the lower timing cover and hide so many of them. Overkill I think. Could probably throw half away with no problem but now will feel guilty if don't put them all back!!

Next why didnt' they make the water pump so it could be removed without having to take the timing belt off? It looks like it wouldn't have taken much to do this but of course they have bolts under the tensioner and tensioner pulley. Way to go Mits engineers!!

And why can't they have a tensioner system like
say gms serpentine belts. You could line it up and then pull the tensioner pulley over and let it go back and not have to go thru all this song and dance with the tenioner,tensioner pulley . They call it an auto tensioner but you still have to mess around.

Anyway just venting a bit. I will of course get it done but it isn't all that fun a job.

Of course in its favor only supposed to be done every 60,000 miles so not like you have to do it everyday.

Ill tell you why they did all that...Its cause their engineers and your not meaning they did it that way because it made sense from an engineering stand point not a do-it-yourself mechanic stand point.

Vent all you like but your title is assinine.

More work, less keyboard action.

Guys, trust me on this one.

ALL Auto engineers think this way. I figure they were not hugged much as kids.

I work on cars for a living and lemme tell ya, GM, Dodge, Ford, Honda, Porsche, Lotus, Mitsu, BMW, Nissan, Mazda, Toyola, VW etc etc etc, ALL have friggin STUPID parts.

Get this, on a new Beetle, if you want to change the A/C condenser(like a radiator, or small FMIC, same location) you have to take off BOTH FENDERS AND THE COMPLETE FRONT BUMPER!!!! Or, you want to change the drive belt (fan belt) on a 95 Grand Am with a 3100 V6? Engine mount, most of the accessories, and some other stuff !! Or, say you have a nice new Chev Pickup (2000 and newer) and your heater core takes a crap. Well, take EVERY PIECE of EQUIPMENT off the dash frame. I mean right down to the metal. And it ALL has to come apart, each and every piece. It pays(IIRC) 8 HRS!!!!!

I love older cars for this. 79 Volvo, you want to change a headlight bulb? Simple. Pop the hood, rotate 2 plastic wing-nut fasteners, lower the top of the headlight surround, rotate the chrome bezel, and the light flops off into your hand. pull off the connector and put the new bulb in, reversing the directions. NO TOOLS!!! And well under 5 min.

Cmon, lets get some of that back into designing.

So vent away, I getcha.

GM serpentine belts drive the accessories - they have nothing to do with valve timing.
Yes it's an auto-tensioner, but it only works if you set it in the proper position (in its range of operation) so that it can apply tension on the belt, automatically. Of course you're going to have to "mess around"

From my experience, the only hassle of a timing belt (or water pump) job is the timing cover bolts. But once you do it a couple of times it's a walk in the park!

Once you do it a couple of times, you've lost half of the timing cover bolts, and decide to strategically place the rest of them in places you can get to. That's why its a walk in the park

Yes I understand the gm doesn't time the motor with its serpentine belt system but still think a similar tensioning system would have worked just fine.

As for the bolts on timing covers going to hold my ground and say that likely half of them are really necessary and the other half could be trash canned but will put them all back in anyway.

I also agree that sure could do the job much faster next time and its only a 60,000 mile thing usually but it sure is much nicer job with engine on a stand.

Not speaking for the whole engineering community but from my experiences, there's usually a good reason why things are the way they are (notice the use of the word usually ). For instance, those extra bolts could have been added to prevent a resonance issue with the lower cover. I'm sure you would have been more pissed hearing a buzzing noise then spending some extra wrench time. Design for servicability is something we consider but usually it takes a back seat to packaging. People want smaller and it helps on gas mileage so bingo, you get allot of pissed off mechanics.

Oh well, I just wanted to give my $0.02 worth but being a shadetree mechanic, I can sympathise with the frustrations.

JT

Its possible to remove the waterpump without removing the belt but it is a REAL PITA. Id take the belt off anyway, after doing it a few times it takes about 30minutes to get everything off and back on.

Have any of you seen the 2.5l mitsu motor (sohc) found in some of the Chrystler minivans and cars? The waterpump is belt driven from a pulley on the back of the cam...not on the timing side.