Flywheel Bolts HELP!
#116826
August 19, 2005 05:20 pm UTC
August 19, 2005 05:20 pm UTC
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,264 GTA
Tim Grechin
OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,264
GTA
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Ever so recently I've dropped in a AWD 6-puck ACT clutch kit. It's unsprung so it's very harsh with engagement. Anyway, here's the story. About a month ago, I was a kilometer away from home when my clutch desided it didn't want to work anymore.
I pushed it home with a couple guys and took the transmission off. Low and behold 3 out of 6 flywheel bolts were SHEARED off right at the heads.
I took them out, replaced them torquing them down in a star pattern progressively all the way up to the torque spec 10Xlbs-ft from what I remember and threw everything back together.
Fast forward to this past Wednesday night at Cayuga. I'm blasting down the track, tuning the car just right, doing a forth gear pull. When all of a sudden I feel my engine and my transmission disengaging. I pull of to the side of the slip booth and get it towed home.
After about 18 beers between 2 guys, we take the whole motor out, take off the transmission and clutch assembly. DAMN FLYWHEEL BOLT! One of the bolts is sheared right off AGAIN. It caused my clutch disk to ram itself into the TOB sleave and cause damage there too.
Can anyone suggest ANYTHING to help me out here. I'm going to start by buying 6 BRAND new bolts. Any other suggestions. I might even pick up a street disk rather then this puck chatter. Pictures are coming.
11.254@132.14MPH - Tractionally impaired
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Re: Flywheel Bolts HELP!
#116831
August 20, 2005 01:20 am UTC
August 20, 2005 01:20 am UTC
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Joined: Oct 1998
Posts: 2,497 Whistler,BC
Tim Hunt
FP 30 Powered
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FP 30 Powered
Insane Member
Joined: Oct 1998
Posts: 2,497
Whistler,BC
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When I rebuilt my motor on '03 the flywheel bolts were reused, 15K no problem's. When I did it again this year they were new bolt's. Torque is 90-110ft lbs I believe with loctite. the flywheel doesn't happen to be off an automatic car!?! Auto's don't have flywheels that would work at all with a manual tranny.
2G TSI AWD Magnus 2.3L G4CS Hybrid
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Re: Flywheel Bolts HELP!
#116832
August 20, 2005 02:10 am UTC
August 20, 2005 02:10 am UTC
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503 Trenton, On, Canada.
Ghislain Goudreau
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503
Trenton, On, Canada.
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Something is making these Bolts snap.
The Crankshaft should have a Dowl... Did you happend to notice if it had one???
Ghislain.
Rouge!!!
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Re: Flywheel Bolts HELP!
#116834
August 20, 2005 07:35 am UTC
August 20, 2005 07:35 am UTC
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Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 851 Mississauga, Ontario
Dennis Camacho
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 851
Mississauga, Ontario
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Tim, two things: 1. It is highly possible that your flywheel is way out of balance. I suggest you replace it. 2. Also, since you are using an unsprung six- puck clutch, nothing is absorbing the tremendous amount of impact during engagement. Something has to suffer...in this case your flywheel bolts. Unsprung clutches are overkill for street use. If you checked the literature that came with your clutch, there's a part that says, "flywheel must be inspected regularly with the use of this clutch". Unfortunately this is not easily done on a street driven car. Good luck
'92 TSi AWD/FWD
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Re: Flywheel Bolts HELP!
#116836
August 20, 2005 05:56 pm UTC
August 20, 2005 05:56 pm UTC
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,263 Niagara Falls, Ontario
Ziggy Dietrich
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,263
Niagara Falls, Ontario
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It sounds like the flywheel is spinning relative to the crankshaft if the bolts are shearing at that joint. If there is supposed to be a dowel between the two, you can't have it properly engaged, or you would have had to shear the dowel also!!
"bluebird" worlds fastest scooter ridden by me "Whitebird" RIP
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Re: Flywheel Bolts HELP!
#116837
August 21, 2005 03:56 am UTC
August 21, 2005 03:56 am UTC
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,369 Regina, Sk
Chris Clark
Insane Member
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Insane Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,369
Regina, Sk
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Still on the stock flywheel Tim?
1990 TSi AWD - Parked since I bought it (Jan24/03) Had it out one day, and busted the trans.
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Re: Flywheel Bolts HELP!
#116840
August 22, 2005 12:33 pm UTC
August 22, 2005 12:33 pm UTC
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,263 Niagara Falls, Ontario
Ziggy Dietrich
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,263
Niagara Falls, Ontario
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It might easily be that the dowel was intended for alignment only, but it WOULD definitely add CONSIDERABLE shear strength as well. Amin is correct about shear strenght of a bolt being a small fraction of it's tensile strength, but the shear strength of a dowel is probably the equivalent of SEVERAL bolts. It could easily be that the problem is unclean surfaces, but it still seems to me that if the dowel had been properly installed, it would have been IMPOSSIBLE to shear the bolts without also shearing the dowel....and I doubt very much that is happening!
"bluebird" worlds fastest scooter ridden by me "Whitebird" RIP
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Re: Flywheel Bolts HELP!
#116846
August 23, 2005 05:00 pm UTC
August 23, 2005 05:00 pm UTC
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503 Trenton, On, Canada.
Ghislain Goudreau
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503
Trenton, On, Canada.
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WTF Tim!!! I see the problem right away. This Engine/Crank is from an AT. MT Crank do not have that Sleeve. Pull that thing out and slap everything back together and install a new Dowel. That should also take care of the harsh engagement. Ghislain.
Rouge!!!
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Re: Flywheel Bolts HELP!
#116847
August 23, 2005 05:03 pm UTC
August 23, 2005 05:03 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 1998
Posts: 2,497 Whistler,BC
Tim Hunt
FP 30 Powered
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FP 30 Powered
Insane Member
Joined: Oct 1998
Posts: 2,497
Whistler,BC
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That centre "ring" that is in the crank needs to be removed. Your flywheel is not sitting tight on the crank and this is why you are breaking bolts. That ring will come out, it is a press fit into there. [img] http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38064&stc=1[/img] Link if pic does not pop up. That ring is there for aligning on auto car's and need's to be removed on an MT. New flywheel bolt's and you should be OK with whatever clutch or PP you use.
2G TSI AWD Magnus 2.3L G4CS Hybrid
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Re: Flywheel Bolts HELP!
#116854
August 23, 2005 09:07 pm UTC
August 23, 2005 09:07 pm UTC
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503 Trenton, On, Canada.
Ghislain Goudreau
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503
Trenton, On, Canada.
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Just remember this as a precious moment Tim.
Something to tell your grandsons when you are old and getting ready to really lose it.
Keep at it!!!
Wiseman Giz.
Rouge!!!
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Re: Flywheel Bolts HELP!
#116857
August 23, 2005 10:47 pm UTC
August 23, 2005 10:47 pm UTC
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Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 6,079 Mississauga, Ontario
Jeff Mitchell
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 6,079
Mississauga, Ontario
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Re: Flywheel Bolts HELP!
#116861
August 24, 2005 01:54 am UTC
August 24, 2005 01:54 am UTC
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503 Trenton, On, Canada.
Ghislain Goudreau
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503
Trenton, On, Canada.
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Air Hammer and Chisel.
Ghislain.
Rouge!!!
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Re: Flywheel Bolts HELP!
#116865
August 24, 2005 05:32 am UTC
August 24, 2005 05:32 am UTC
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,369 Regina, Sk
Chris Clark
Insane Member
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Insane Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,369
Regina, Sk
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Heat it up, then try a pair of visegrips on it.
1990 TSi AWD - Parked since I bought it (Jan24/03) Had it out one day, and busted the trans.
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Re: Flywheel Bolts HELP!
#116869
August 26, 2005 03:58 pm UTC
August 26, 2005 03:58 pm UTC
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,958 London, Ontario
Jon Arnett
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,958
London, Ontario
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Use a press. Put it in the vice on the press, then use a big socket (the size of what you're taking out), to knock out the centre piece.
Or, if you want to buy one of those pullers you put up a picture of, Princess Auto has them for under $20.
*2002 Porsche 911 Silver *2006 BMW 325XIT Black *2003 BMW 325i Silver
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Re: Flywheel Bolts HELP!
#116871
September 02, 2005 08:33 am UTC
September 02, 2005 08:33 am UTC
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,264 GTA
Tim Grechin
OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,264
GTA
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Ok guys, I'm at a complete loss for words. I installed new flywheel bolts, un-installed auto spacer thingy, a new TOB, resurfaced the flywheel to 0.620 (according to RPS who manufactures my clutch kit).
I start the car up. It fires up nice. I push the clutch in, GRIND. I push it in again, GRIND. I take off the ghey aftermarket pedals (for good) and remove the carpet and REEF the clutch pedal down, A LOT less of a grind.
I adjust the master rod, re-bled the system and still GRIND and less grind when I push the clutch in and try to put it throught the floor.
I even went as far as to try to bring the slave closer to the clutch fork by grinding 2mm off each mounting hole surface where it bolts to the transmission.
Same ****.
My pedal assembly is dead, yes but this is insane. What do you guys suggest? Does 0.620 sound right for flywheel step height? Thats what I was told my RPS trbo clutches.
11.254@132.14MPH - Tractionally impaired
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Re: Flywheel Bolts HELP!
#116874
September 02, 2005 11:04 pm UTC
September 02, 2005 11:04 pm UTC
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 111 Barrie
Jim Small
Regular Member
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Regular Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 111
Barrie
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Tim get your car going SOON. Cause we all know my car won't be ready anytime soon, and even if it were, I'm not paying those gas prices. I need rides! take the damn clutch pedal assembly out, I'll give ya a hand, but beer is on you. And stop telling people you folded yourself into the footwell to adjust the rod, we all know who really did.
"Where the hell do these bolts go?"
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Re: Flywheel Bolts HELP!
#116876
September 03, 2005 04:34 pm UTC
September 03, 2005 04:34 pm UTC
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503 Trenton, On, Canada.
Ghislain Goudreau
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503
Trenton, On, Canada.
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The only way to tell is to measure it. I always have the Machine Shop to show me the measurements.
Ghislain.
Rouge!!!
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Re: Flywheel Bolts HELP!
#116877
September 03, 2005 05:47 pm UTC
September 03, 2005 05:47 pm UTC
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,126 Toronto
Rob Cauduro
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,126
Toronto
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