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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143181
March 10, 2003 05:29 am UTC
March 10, 2003 05:29 am UTC
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,142
Thornhill
Jeff Feldsher
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Member
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Posts: 1,142
Thornhill
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2wD only way to fly. Learn how to launch properly!!!!  [/QB] Bah...real men only race on a roll!! 
90 TSi FWD
BPU+
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143190
March 10, 2003 03:21 pm UTC
March 10, 2003 03:21 pm UTC
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
Ronnie Fung
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Serious Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
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Originally posted by Jerry Rose: we used to run out of the sauna naked...run through the snow and jump into the lake where the ice had been broken up. From there back into the sauna  Speaking of Sauna. I was in Picton this weekend, where we did exactly the same thing...it's great. Only difference is that we chop a hole in the ice. AS much as I hate the cold, I love doing that. Sauna is good anytime, cold, hot, heaven, hell. It's ironic, as it's hot like hell in there, but it feels like heaven.
-1986 Bastardized Mazda RX7
-2000 CBR 929RR (Street)
-2003 CBR 600RR (Track)
-2000 Chevrolet Xtreme
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143191
March 10, 2003 03:29 pm UTC
March 10, 2003 03:29 pm UTC
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
Ronnie Fung
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Serious Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
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Originally posted by Jeff Feldsher: Bah...real men only race on a roll!! [/QB]No no no no no Jeff. If you can't launch your car, no matter how quick your car is, you still lose to a Honda, a slower car. Remember that one in Woodbridge, last summmer. you had in on a roll, but in the standing start, (which really counts)...you got roasted. Seriously, if you learn to lauch it, it goes like a bat out of hell, if you're meaner to clutch, that it is. Get some rubber, get a clutch, they don't have that much advantage out of the hole. Nothing that can't be made up in gearing difference and weight. Everyone talks about weight difference, gear ratio difference plays a HUGE PART. In it. Third gear winding all the way up to 155km is great. That is unless you make more than 350bhp to the tire that is. Then it may be hard, that's the highest HP i've ever driven. That was harder to make it out of the hole. Fun, but harder. It was RWD though with Posi. FWD can launch. If you want to see what it can do, lend me your car Jeff, I'll rematch with that Civic. 
-1986 Bastardized Mazda RX7
-2000 CBR 929RR (Street)
-2003 CBR 600RR (Track)
-2000 Chevrolet Xtreme
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143192
March 10, 2003 04:33 pm UTC
March 10, 2003 04:33 pm UTC
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,142
Thornhill
Jeff Feldsher
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Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,142
Thornhill
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Yeah I plan on getting sick tires this year at the very least, maybe even LSD  Truth is I hardly ever get races from a dead dig. Around here most times it's always while already rolling. And thats just fine with me P.S. in fairness to me that civic was stripped out with Type R motor swapped in running high 13's
90 TSi FWD
BPU+
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143193
March 10, 2003 04:40 pm UTC
March 10, 2003 04:40 pm UTC
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
Ronnie Fung
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
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Originally posted by Jeff Feldsher:
Truth is I hardly ever get races from a dead dig. Around here most times it's always while already rolling. And thats just fine with me
P.S. in fairness to me that civic was stripped out with Type R motor swapped in running high 13's True true, but there are oppurtunities plenty at times. Learnt he launch without the LSD and then once you get it, it's a lot easier. A car with no LSD can launch quick, jsut not as easily. Learn that then your'e laughing. Regarding the Civic, you had him on the roll (your car was fasater int helong run), just not the launch. The standing start is where it's at for "bragging rights" I personally don't care for bragging rights, I know you don't either. It's still fun for me to race from a standing start regardless. I enjoy it more. Driver skill becomes a HUGE issue here. I can beat a quicker car, or lose to a slower car. Skill is involved, rather than bank accounts (read: money equals horsepower) I can beat a guy with 30 large invested in his car, if he don't know how to launch the thing, right? It's great. I love pulling on guys with slightly more traction...like AWD guys once I'm rolling.
-1986 Bastardized Mazda RX7
-2000 CBR 929RR (Street)
-2003 CBR 600RR (Track)
-2000 Chevrolet Xtreme
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143194
March 10, 2003 05:02 pm UTC
March 10, 2003 05:02 pm UTC
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 461
Markham, Ont, Canada
Ian Currie
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Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 461
Markham, Ont, Canada
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Racing from a roll - invention from guys who can't get out of the hole. I.E. guys who can't launch worth sh!t, and thought they could save face by saying "lets race from a roll". Perfect example of these people are FWD DSM'ers and Supra drivers. All whine and complain, stay away or you will be destined to hear them bitch and complain about how they couldn't hook. That was taken from my dictionary, can't find the exact one.
04' Ram 3500 Cummins
85' 930 Turbo
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143195
March 10, 2003 05:27 pm UTC
March 10, 2003 05:27 pm UTC
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,787
Malaysia
Jeremy Chin
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Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,787
Malaysia
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There is really not that much difference between AWD and FWD in a launch. You just have to know how to do it. And you'll more than make up for it at the end. I can do low 2.3 60' time on my FWD Galant consistantly with crappy street tires. Thats barely even 1/2 a second slower than my AWD talon. I bet I can outdrag a similarly powered stock AWD Talon on the strip with a FWD Talon.
most ppl race on a roll nowadays...ghey but true.
Ian, You forgot about Civic drivers as well.
300hp Talon to a 50hp Citroen. Lovely ain't it?
Back to another Mits.
A Mirage Cyborg as a future 4G63T candidate.
"I've had more Mitsu's than you can imagine"
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143196
March 10, 2003 08:10 pm UTC
March 10, 2003 08:10 pm UTC
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
Ronnie Fung
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
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Originally posted by Ian Currie: Racing from a roll - invention from guys who can't get out of the hole. I.E. guys who can't launch worth sh!t, and thought they could save face by saying "lets race from a roll". Perfect example of these people are FWD DSM'ers and Supra drivers. All whine and complain, stay away or you will be destined to hear them bitch and complain about how they couldn't hook.
That was taken from my dictionary, can't find the exact one. That is very true Ian. Many will not race from a start hence the fly bye later on, when I've already braked. It irks me, but it's a fact of life. Most people are afraid to race from a start unless they have AWD. :rolleyes: I am not. I enjoy it far more. I do both races and as far as I'm concerned, standing start equals driver skill, roll on equals cop out and who has more money to dump into BHP mods.
-1986 Bastardized Mazda RX7
-2000 CBR 929RR (Street)
-2003 CBR 600RR (Track)
-2000 Chevrolet Xtreme
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143197
March 10, 2003 09:15 pm UTC
March 10, 2003 09:15 pm UTC
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,787
Pickering, ON
Nick Boers
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Insane Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,787
Pickering, ON
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I was able to get 2.2 60' times with my last car, a 2.2 turbo lebaron, FWD. It would smoke the tires all the way through 1st and most of 2nd if I wasn't careful though.
It's not really any easier to get a good launch out of the AWD, it's just that the bad AWD launches are still faster than a good FWD launch.
Once you get it, you get it, and you won't be afraid of a standing start.
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143198
March 11, 2003 12:22 am UTC
March 11, 2003 12:22 am UTC
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
Ronnie Fung
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
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I agree with Nick there. once you learn, you learn.
Why should you be afraid of a stadning start anyways? It's all in fun at the end of the day. Unless you're racing for money, if you're racing for money and you can't launch go home and practice.
-1986 Bastardized Mazda RX7
-2000 CBR 929RR (Street)
-2003 CBR 600RR (Track)
-2000 Chevrolet Xtreme
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143199
March 11, 2003 12:24 am UTC
March 11, 2003 12:24 am UTC
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
Ronnie Fung
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Serious Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
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AWD, FWD blah blah blah. It's all about 1WRWD. (one wheel rear wheel drive.) 1.8 short time, bone stock, no tire spinning. 89 GSXR 750.
-1986 Bastardized Mazda RX7
-2000 CBR 929RR (Street)
-2003 CBR 600RR (Track)
-2000 Chevrolet Xtreme
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143201
March 11, 2003 02:12 pm UTC
March 11, 2003 02:12 pm UTC
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
Ronnie Fung
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Serious Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
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Originally posted by Jeff Feldsher:
And you don't need major $$$ to run on the highway. Just well chosen mods and good tuning is enough. You should see the looks you get when you pop your hood to a Supra TT driver and all you have under the hood is a puny 14B  You do to beat any car worth it. You beat a Supra TT with your mods? That's very impressive as the TT's dominate the highways. Even with a MKIII Supra my bro and I were pulling 14.1's @ 102 MPH. Bear in mind this is 3800lb car too. Which is good for a better ET than that. If we didn't both have bald tires, I mean, really bald. I would say that MPH is enough to take your car with your mods. That is nowhere near enouigh to take a TT on the highway.
-1986 Bastardized Mazda RX7
-2000 CBR 929RR (Street)
-2003 CBR 600RR (Track)
-2000 Chevrolet Xtreme
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143202
March 11, 2003 05:17 pm UTC
March 11, 2003 05:17 pm UTC
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Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,631
Toronto, Ontario,Canada
Thomas Toth
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Insane Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,631
Toronto, Ontario,Canada
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Well i would love to see you AWD guys in a 400 hp FWD and see how great you guys are. With my 235 wide R compound yokohamas and the phantom grip i have trouble launching in 1st at times. You AWD guys talk big about racing from a light, would love to see you in a high hp FWD. Jeff's FWD car dont count its not fast j/k You know the saying no replacement for displacement? Need a saying for the AWD/FWD wars
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143203
March 11, 2003 06:19 pm UTC
March 11, 2003 06:19 pm UTC
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,987
Mississauga, Ont
Jerry Rose
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Insane Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,987
Mississauga, Ont
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Thomas who are you trying to convince Why would we need to try a high HP FWD when we have AWD. You may want to check with Ian but im pretty sure launching a high HP AWD for class winning times is pretty simple and we could all do it eh  . Everybody has the right to love their car period but to say one type of drivetrain or car is the BEST is simply crap. If you want to pick one very narrow area where a car excels and say thats why mine is best then go nuts. Its supposed to snow on Friday lets see what kind of 60' times you get against me...I will set up a winch on my car to pull you out of the ditch. Im still waiting for Ronnie to get his bike out and take me on when its snowing or raining. Or how about a burn out contest oh yeah you will win that cause all i get is traction..damn  i guess thats why all those Audi AWD or Archer Brother Talon wins against "faster" 2WDrives was all luck. Maybe we could hit the gravel and do a bit of back roads rallying oh yeah scroll up to the winch comment. The point is any specific situation a given car and setup may be superior but for the big picture AWD is an excellent balance from the street to the track to the commute home. If weight is the big issue that people come back to I am sure 400-500 hp would make that a little bit less of an issue The reality is unless your car is strictly a track car and gets from place to place on a trailer then most cars need to do a lot of things well. If I had a garage and wallet big enough I would have one of each and get Ronnie to show me how not to end up a grease stain on a racing bike 
Every day I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've stayed alive.
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143204
March 11, 2003 07:18 pm UTC
March 11, 2003 07:18 pm UTC
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
Ronnie Fung
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
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Good point Jerry. If we're talking about balance here. My stance is not on the balance side of things though. While we are semi discussing pros and cons of each, we are forgetting that cars are very personal. It's about what the driver wants out of it. Jerry wants an all around performer. Jeff, wants to build a highway car. Thomas is...well, I don't know...he is a Hyundai Driver after all. (just joking) Thomas has shown that with good rubber, high BHP and a quasi LSD, power can be put down. Ian is building a drag car. All this shows in the mods that are chosen. My preference is for a vehicle that performs best in sunny, dry, optimal conditions. I concede that if it rains, snows or is too cold, my vehicle of choice becomes a non contender or a lesser one. That is OK with me. I like my cruises warm and dry. I'm not saying any drivetrain is better. I have preferences, but those are mine and mine alone. Any given drivetrain is better for any goven circumstance. At the end of the day, what does your budget permit you to do? For the amount of money that YOU have, what can you buy or spend on that will give YOU (the driver and owner) the MOST enjoyment. Right? Drive what you like, acknowledge the strengths and weaknesses, improve on them or switch camps if you don't like what you have. Hence my list of vehicles, someone ALWAYS has what I want until I have it, then the other side seems better.  Fun and budget is the factor. I would like AWD the most of all if I had 500BHP and had enough power to negate all negative aspects and still have enoguh power to power slide, donut, throttle steer and donut on a dry summer day. If not, 2WD till I have money. Or like Jerry...one of each to suit my mood. As far as getting on a bike Jerry, it's not that hard to do and not as expensive as one might think. I got my license and bike in 1 month. It doens't take long, it's cheap, it's the most fun you will have with clothes on and once you try it, you will be changed forever the first time you go out on a 20 degree day in the sunshine and on a country road. Sun in your face, breeze in your face. (not to mention all sorts of little nasties at 160MPH) Let's not forget the raw power to weight ratio and amazing handling prowess of a sport bike available on command. You odn't always have to rip it, but when you do, it's an eye opener.
-1986 Bastardized Mazda RX7
-2000 CBR 929RR (Street)
-2003 CBR 600RR (Track)
-2000 Chevrolet Xtreme
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143205
March 11, 2003 09:36 pm UTC
March 11, 2003 09:36 pm UTC
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Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,631
Toronto, Ontario,Canada
Thomas Toth
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Insane Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,631
Toronto, Ontario,Canada
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Jerry, you sir are too serious, you need to relax. If you wanna line up in the snow i dont care. Then we will line it up on dry as well and see what happens to your AWD launch after the 2nd gear .  This is a joke thread really if you did not notice so yeah.
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143207
March 11, 2003 11:06 pm UTC
March 11, 2003 11:06 pm UTC
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
Ronnie Fung
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
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Amin, 1000watts? Do you mean KW?
Or is this a school project or something?
-1986 Bastardized Mazda RX7
-2000 CBR 929RR (Street)
-2003 CBR 600RR (Track)
-2000 Chevrolet Xtreme
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143209
March 11, 2003 11:41 pm UTC
March 11, 2003 11:41 pm UTC
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
Ronnie Fung
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
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1.3??? 250Kg? That thing is going nowhere. What it is it anyways? Got any pics?
-1986 Bastardized Mazda RX7
-2000 CBR 929RR (Street)
-2003 CBR 600RR (Track)
-2000 Chevrolet Xtreme
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143212
March 12, 2003 02:58 am UTC
March 12, 2003 02:58 am UTC
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,720
Toronto
Darko Miodrag
ok wait, maybe I am
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ok wait, maybe I am
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,720
Toronto
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Originally posted by Dennis Wong:
For me, my opinion is the only one that matters. If I could own only one car, it would have to be AWD. For fun, RWD wins hands down. Then again, I don't think I'd turn down a 996 TT or Murcielago. IMHO, FWD is just simply useless. Amen! Gay Old Boys Choir members think alike!
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143216
March 12, 2003 05:53 pm UTC
March 12, 2003 05:53 pm UTC
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,142
Thornhill
Jeff Feldsher
Member
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Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,142
Thornhill
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Originally posted by Darko Miodrag: WRONG Wheel Drive sucks.
You FWD boys need to get some RWD or AWD cars and upgrade your status to "MEN". Haha thats funny, I guess "boys" with WWD have been handing you your ass for a very long time oh wait nevermind...just saw your official title
90 TSi FWD
BPU+
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143217
March 12, 2003 08:16 pm UTC
March 12, 2003 08:16 pm UTC
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 326
Saint John, NB
Mike Smith
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 326
Saint John, NB
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FWD AWD is too much extra weight and will fall through the ice. Plus AWD is gay on the highway -------------------- 92 Turbocharged "4g63" Hyundai Sonata AWD is gay? This coming from a turbo Sonata. Give me a 6k launch anyday over a rolling start.
95 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
6 bolt
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143218
March 12, 2003 09:03 pm UTC
March 12, 2003 09:03 pm UTC
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
Ronnie Fung
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
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It's all the same... Cars are gay.... You're not living till you're on one wheel.
-1986 Bastardized Mazda RX7
-2000 CBR 929RR (Street)
-2003 CBR 600RR (Track)
-2000 Chevrolet Xtreme
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143219
March 12, 2003 09:15 pm UTC
March 12, 2003 09:15 pm UTC
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
Ronnie Fung
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
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Originally posted by Thomas Toth: Need a saying for the AWD/FWD wars -AWD 1G DSM: $5000 -Mods: 16G, 3 inch exhaust, ACT 2600, MBC: $2500. vs. -2WD 1G DSM: $2000 -Mods: MBC, Cat Back exhaust: $250. -Look on AWD's face as you rip them a new bunghole from behind on the highway or a rolling start: PRICELESS! Or try this one. -AWD 1G DSM: $5000 -Mods: 16G, 3 inch exhaust, ACT 2600, MBC: $2500. vs. -2WD DSM: $2000 -Mods: 20G, 3 inch exhaust, ACT 2100, MBC, 550cc Injectors, Standalone Engine management, Phantom Grip LSD, Etc :$7000 -Look on 2WD's face as the AWD rips them a new bunghole from in front in the 1/8 mile as he can't out any power down: Priceless.
-1986 Bastardized Mazda RX7
-2000 CBR 929RR (Street)
-2003 CBR 600RR (Track)
-2000 Chevrolet Xtreme
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143220
March 12, 2003 10:47 pm UTC
March 12, 2003 10:47 pm UTC
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Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,631
Toronto, Ontario,Canada
Thomas Toth
Insane Member
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Insane Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,631
Toronto, Ontario,Canada
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Originally posted by Mike Smith: FWD
AWD is too much extra weight and will fall through the ice. Plus AWD is gay on the highway
--------------------
92 Turbocharged "4g63" Hyundai Sonata AWD is gay? This coming from a turbo Sonata. Give me a 6k launch anyday over a rolling start.HAHAAHAHAHAHAH STFU you dumb newbie! DO YOU PEOPLE NOT READ INTO JOKES??? Hello Mcfly? By the way My turbo Sonata , the car you dont know nothing about will eat you for breakfast lunch and dinner and time for snack in between before your Crankwalking AWD is nothing but a spec of dust. AHAHAHAHAH
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143221
March 12, 2003 11:39 pm UTC
March 12, 2003 11:39 pm UTC
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,300
Aylmer, Quebec
Gates Perry
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Insane Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,300
Aylmer, Quebec
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LOL@MIKE SMITH!!! Thomas, please bet this guy some money... Or better yet, race for pinks! My opinion in this matter is AWD. I can't stand how properly modded FWDs break loose so easily in most gears... And plus, if you're in an AWD and you already got them on the 60ft, you can slow down and not have to worry about anything else... They're watching your brake lights by then. Of course, they'll say "Race me from a roll" at the next lights and you can simply smile and say "No thanks", thusly keeping your honor and title! G.
1990 TSi AWD - Got Boost? 1992 TSi AWD - R.I.P
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143222
March 13, 2003 12:20 am UTC
March 13, 2003 12:20 am UTC
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Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,631
Toronto, Ontario,Canada
Thomas Toth
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Insane Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,631
Toronto, Ontario,Canada
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Originally posted by Gates Perry: LOL@MIKE SMITH!!!
Thomas, please bet this guy some money... Or better yet, race for pinks!
HAhaha nah , he is a rookie and doesnt know the Hyundai, just like most, wouldnt be fair. Let him talk smack i dont care really
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143223
March 13, 2003 12:25 am UTC
March 13, 2003 12:25 am UTC
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,787
Malaysia
Jeremy Chin
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Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,787
Malaysia
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THIS WILL GO ON FOREVER...IT WILL NEVER END. After driving my AWD talon for a good 8 mths, I don't miss it. Sure it's nice to give F-bodies a newfound respect for a stock talon but I hated how it will bog on a street start, how it's just slow on the highway. How it will understeer when pushed into a corner. I will take a RWD car anyday (that is not snowing). In actuallity, I enjoy driving my N/T FWD Galant a lot more... as odd as it may sound. All it needs is a little dose of power. AWD vs. FWD vs RWD..bah! The acceleration king only has 2 wheels. Any 600+ cc sports bike will make all but the most highly tuned 4 wheeler eat dust..highway or strip. Hell, even my old 250cc TZ 2 stroker will give u guys a hefty dose of 2T oil. i rest my case. ps. Ronnie... most ppl here have never been on a bike...let alone a fast one....so don't blame them.
300hp Talon to a 50hp Citroen. Lovely ain't it?
Back to another Mits.
A Mirage Cyborg as a future 4G63T candidate.
"I've had more Mitsu's than you can imagine"
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143225
March 14, 2003 02:11 am UTC
March 14, 2003 02:11 am UTC
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 326
Saint John, NB
Mike Smith
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 326
Saint John, NB
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[/QUOTEHAhaha nah , he is a rookie and doesnt know the Hyundai, just like most, wouldnt be fair. Let him talk smack i dont care really
] [QUOTE] Down boy. Didn't mean to ruffle feathers. I'm not talking smack, just giving my opinion like every one else on this board. I prefer AWD. Racing for pinks?? I think the auditions for F&F 2 are done. All the power to the turbo Sonata, the Ultimate Sleeper. Newbie. Cute. So how many posts till you know what your talking about round here, 500, 1000, 2000, ??
95 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
6 bolt
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143227
March 14, 2003 02:42 am UTC
March 14, 2003 02:42 am UTC
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
Ronnie Fung
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
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Originally posted by Mike Smith:
Newbie. Cute. So how many posts till you know what your talking about round here, 500, 1000, 2000, ?? Good point. Just because you don't have a large post count (we all know post counts equal wisdom and penis size, right? :rolleyes: )doesn't mean you don't know what you are talking about. I know high posters who don't know what they are talking about. I don't know what I'm talking about 50% of the time. Well, I'm lying, I NEVER know what I'm talking about!
-1986 Bastardized Mazda RX7
-2000 CBR 929RR (Street)
-2003 CBR 600RR (Track)
-2000 Chevrolet Xtreme
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143228
March 14, 2003 11:04 am UTC
March 14, 2003 11:04 am UTC
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Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 1,229
T-DOT
Willie Sorenson
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 1,229
T-DOT
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Why does this competition still continue? I mean this will never be mainstream and certainly not before H fuel cell. I can see it all now...yeah I'll be into work in 3 hours after I srcape the ice off my entire car to expose the cells...oh wait its overcast. 120km/h in that green sliver? Hope it has a 6-point cage.
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143229
March 14, 2003 02:43 pm UTC
March 14, 2003 02:43 pm UTC
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Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 6,079
Mississauga, Ontario
Jeff Mitchell
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 6,079
Mississauga, Ontario
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Fuel for the fire: AWDs handle better, especially with some suspension mods to make them more neutral or even oversteer under power. Oh, and Amin, please don't post huge pictures in threads without linking to them. Give people a choice!
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143230
March 14, 2003 02:44 pm UTC
March 14, 2003 02:44 pm UTC
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,300
Aylmer, Quebec
Gates Perry
Insane Member
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Insane Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,300
Aylmer, Quebec
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Why can't we just get along! hehehe In case you guys didn't notice, there should have been a sarcastic tone to my "race for pinks" comment, which was followed by the , making it a joke. Some people need to relaxxxxxxxx! I still say AWD, unless I could get my hands on the Charger again. 
1990 TSi AWD - Got Boost? 1992 TSi AWD - R.I.P
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143231
March 14, 2003 05:05 pm UTC
March 14, 2003 05:05 pm UTC
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,210
Niagara Falls Ontario
Vince Amato
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,210
Niagara Falls Ontario
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Originally posted by Jeremy Chin:
I hated how it will bog on a street start, How it will understeer when pushed into a corner.
p learn how to drive and you won't have these problems. Especially bogging on a start, any decent driver will never have his AWd talon bogg.
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143232
March 14, 2003 05:57 pm UTC
March 14, 2003 05:57 pm UTC
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,987
Mississauga, Ont
Jerry Rose
Insane Member
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Insane Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,987
Mississauga, Ont
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Ok the logic is AWD are heavier therefore they are slower im am #1 so use only one finger next time like everyone else does when they salute me haha
Every day I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've stayed alive.
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143233
March 14, 2003 06:49 pm UTC
March 14, 2003 06:49 pm UTC
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,787
Malaysia
Jeremy Chin
Member
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Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,787
Malaysia
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Originally posted by Vince Amato: Originally posted by Jeremy Chin:
[b] I hated how it will bog on a street start, How it will understeer when pushed into a corner.
p Try not to be the arrogant bitch you are Vince Not everyone likes to slip at 2500+ rpm everytime when you dont want to race. MY AWD suck at street starts. And with so much driveline drag and actually making less power than an NT engine off boost, I very often find myself having to drive around town one gear lower than I like to. Sure it's fun to race, but 99.9% of my driving is not racing. My Galant(s) pot around town happily at 1700rpm in 5th goign 60..accerelates from that without bogging or feels "luged on". I would like to see an AWD Talon do that without protesting.
300hp Talon to a 50hp Citroen. Lovely ain't it?
Back to another Mits.
A Mirage Cyborg as a future 4G63T candidate.
"I've had more Mitsu's than you can imagine"
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143234
March 14, 2003 06:52 pm UTC
March 14, 2003 06:52 pm UTC
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,787
Malaysia
Jeremy Chin
Member
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Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,787
Malaysia
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Originally posted by Vince Amato: Originally posted by Jeremy Chin:
[b] I hated how it will bog on a street start, How it will understeer when pushed into a corner.
p Try not to be the arrogant bitch you are Vince Not everyone likes to slip at 2500+ rpm everytime when you dont want to race. MY AWD suck at street starts. And with so much driveline drag and actually making less power than an NT engine off boost, I very often find myself having to drive around town one gear lower than I like to. Sure it's fun to race, but 99.9% of my driving is not racing. My Galant(s) pot around town happily at 1700rpm in 5th goign 60..accerelates from that without bogging or feels "luged on". I would like to see an AWD Talon do that without protesting.
300hp Talon to a 50hp Citroen. Lovely ain't it?
Back to another Mits.
A Mirage Cyborg as a future 4G63T candidate.
"I've had more Mitsu's than you can imagine"
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143236
March 14, 2003 09:23 pm UTC
March 14, 2003 09:23 pm UTC
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,210
Niagara Falls Ontario
Vince Amato
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,210
Niagara Falls Ontario
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Originally posted by Jeremy Chin: Originally posted by Vince Amato: [b] Originally posted by Jeremy Chin:
[b] I hated how it will bog on a street start, How it will understeer when pushed into a corner.
p learn how to drive and you won't have these problems. Especially bogging on a start, any decent driver will never have his AWd talon bogg.[/b]
[/b]Sorry guy I am not being arrogant, I am just saying you don't know how to drive if you are bogging your stock AWD at stop lights. As Nick said it's very easy not to bogg your AWD Talon. I have an ACT 2600 and a lighetned flywheel and I have no problem starting from a stop at 1000rpm whout bogging. I don't know what your problem is but it's not the car.
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143239
March 15, 2003 03:45 am UTC
March 15, 2003 03:45 am UTC
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,787
Malaysia
Jeremy Chin
Member
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Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,787
Malaysia
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haha.. Vince...
me not know how to drive? Lets just say I can drive a lot better than you can even imagine. And not just on a straight road. I have an advanced drivers licence that allows me to run on various local GP tracks back home (Pasir Gudang, Sepang), where me and my buddy drive a Group N Silvia 1.8 Turbo, a Group A 1600 Lancer, and my TZ-250 bike for club races.
I'm just not afraid to admit that AWD sucks at anything other than getting a good holeshot. Having raced RWDs, AWDs seems unbalanced and lack the "toss-ability" and lightnees of a RWD (even some FWDs like the Integra Type R, given a twisty technical track, a stocker will walk all over a stock or mildly modded Talon).
You see, from where I come from, we go circuit racing/time attacks/hill climbs...not drag runs.
so Vince, before the next time you rear your big fat american ass arrogance (might I add ignorance) again, think first.
300hp Talon to a 50hp Citroen. Lovely ain't it?
Back to another Mits.
A Mirage Cyborg as a future 4G63T candidate.
"I've had more Mitsu's than you can imagine"
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143241
March 15, 2003 05:14 am UTC
March 15, 2003 05:14 am UTC
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Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 549
London, ON
Dennis Wong
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 549
London, ON
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Not everyone likes to slip at 2500+ rpm everytime when you dont want to race. MY AWD suck at street starts. And with so much driveline drag and actually making less power than an NT engine off boost, I very often find myself having to drive around town one gear lower than I like to. Sure it's fun to race, but 99.9% of my driving is not racing.
Haha, once again...there is no replacement for displacement. On a 30+ degree day with the A/C on, off the line (with a normal launch) my Talon felt like it had about 20 ft-lbs of torque. This is not so much the fact that it is AWD, but the fact that there is no low end grunt. For turbos, Audi has it right. The S4 made full boost by 1950 rpm and felt more like a big displacement engine than a turbocharged one.
DSMless...but you'll never get rid of me!
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143242
March 15, 2003 05:41 am UTC
March 15, 2003 05:41 am UTC
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,987
Mississauga, Ont
Jerry Rose
Insane Member
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Insane Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,987
Mississauga, Ont
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Hey Jeremy I doubt Vince needs any defence cause he is a big boy but three grand and a long weekend gets you the basics for a race licence. There are a lot of guys without one that can drive better than guys who do. You may be good maybe your not it doesnt matter you like your car and if its FWD then more power to you. I have been driving for 18 years in front/rear/awd on and off the track and if i had to have only two wheels driving it wouldnt be the front. FWD was introduced not as a performance enhancer it was simply a cost cutting measure and a way to increase interior space. A side benefit was that for the average driver the tendency of FWD to understeer and having weight over the drive wheels made it "easier" to drive. The problem with handling though is the unequal weight distribution and the steering wheels doing double duty as drive wheels. RWD for someone who knows what they are doing works well as one end pushes and the other steers. The weight is more evenly distributed and provideds better handling. Physics likes this car for the track as weight transfer loads the rears and gets the power to the pavement. But since the engine weight isnt over the drive wheels then traction is limited on slippery surfaces. AWD has all of the handling and traction benefits of the above its simple math and physics ....but with added complexity and weight. The complexity was a problem in rallying when you had to fix on the fly and the weight was initially a concern on the track. Over the years AWD took over rally and into the Pikes Peak races and into the track taking over group A racing with Archer brothers blowing the doors off of the 300z RX7 and camaros and mustangs. Audi Quattros took over SCCA trans am series against more powerful cars and were hit with all kinds of restrictions and weight penalties so they moved to IMSA GTO. AWD was banned in SCCA because the 2WDs couldnt compete. FWD and RWD over the years have added systems to compensate like traction control or wheelspin control etc to achieve what is a given in AWD. So all the things you guys are talking about arent drivetrain or vehicle problems they are application or driver preference. As for tossability etc that all has to do with the vehicle set up. So a bunch of amateurs like us should leave the real comparisons to the big boys and everything else is only opinion. P.S Hey Thomas you still need to get one of those fingers down buddy remember im #1
Every day I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've stayed alive.
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143244
March 15, 2003 12:41 pm UTC
March 15, 2003 12:41 pm UTC
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 569
Almost North Oshawa
Andrew Wilson
Gene Pool Police
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Gene Pool Police
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 569
Almost North Oshawa
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Originally posted by Ronnie Fung:
You're not living till you're on one wheel. Common Ronnie, I hope your talking about the front wheel !! & FWD isnt gay, it just needs a liitle help like an old man with a walker getting across the street !
if you're caught doing 140kmh in a 100 zone = a few points
150kmh in a 100 zone, you'll be arrested.
350kmh in a 100 zone, you'll be shot. On the side of the road. Like a rabid dog...
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143247
March 15, 2003 05:09 pm UTC
March 15, 2003 05:09 pm UTC
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,210
Niagara Falls Ontario
Vince Amato
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,210
Niagara Falls Ontario
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Originally posted by Jeremy Chin:
haha.. Vince...
me not know how to drive? Lets just say I can drive a lot better than you can even imagine. And not just on a straight road. I have an advanced drivers licence that allows me to run on various local GP tracks back home (Pasir Gudang, Sepang), where me and my buddy drive a Group N Silvia 1.8 Turbo, a Group A 1600 Lancer, and my TZ-250 bike for club races.
I'm just not afraid to admit that AWD sucks at anything other than getting a good holeshot. Having raced RWDs, AWDs seems unbalanced and lack the "toss-ability" and lightnees of a RWD (even some FWDs like the Integra Type R, given a twisty technical track, a stocker will walk all over a stock or mildly modded Talon).
You see, from where I come from, we go circuit racing/time attacks/hill climbs...not drag runs.
so Vince, before the next time you rear your big fat american ass arrogance (might I add ignorance) again, think first. Jeremy please save the tears for someone that cares. You said you couldn't start from a stoplight without bogging your AWD car and I said that if this is the case you don't know how to drive. No need to get your panties all in a bunch, if you don't know how to move your AWD car it's not my problem, just admit it to yourself and move on. And congratulations on your "advanced licence", but as Jerry already said any tool with 3 grand can get one so it you're trying to impress me try again. Originally posted by Jeremy Chin:
haha.. Vince...
me not know how to drive? Lets just say I can drive a lot better than you can even imagine. And not just on a straight road. I have an advanced drivers licence that allows me to run on various local GP tracks back home (Pasir Gudang, Sepang), where me and my buddy drive a Group N Silvia 1.8 Turbo, a Group A 1600 Lancer, and my TZ-250 bike for club races. Who's the arogant one Jeremy? "I can drive a lot better than you can ever imagine" now if that isn't arrogant I don't know what is. Jeremy I really think you picked the wrong car, you are not DSM material, you cry and whine too much to own a DSM, I think a fuel efficient econo box like a Honda is more suited for you. A honda would go great with your "I am the best driver in the world attitude" because we all know honda drivers are full of Sh*t.
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143248
March 15, 2003 05:22 pm UTC
March 15, 2003 05:22 pm UTC
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,787
Malaysia
Jeremy Chin
Member
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Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,787
Malaysia
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For speed thrills,
Give me RWD and a big motor. Turbos optional.
or
Give me a high strung 2-stroke motor on a 2 wheeler.
Ony way to fly.
other wise, give me a reliable, decent powered FWD for the street.
Maybe I'm getting older and my tastes have changed. I find myself liking more comfortable cars. Screw out right performance in a comfortable daily driver (not that it is an exclusive attribute, just expensive). Any mid-size sedan running low 15s high 14s is plenty quick for me. hp and 1/4 mile numbers are just bragging rights..they mean nothing to me.
Thats also the reason why I decided to sell my rather fast stock talon. I dont enjoy driving it..after the novelty wears out, its just another car. Now, if the AWD talon came with a larger engine say a 2.4 with more torque at low RPMs...that would be a different story. Hell, I drove my friend's 160hp non-VTEC prelude and it feels a whole lot faster than my Talon (although I would still trounce him on the track).
Dennis is right, no matter how you put it, if you saddle a heavy powertrain with a tiny motor, something has to give. There is NO replacement for displacement.
300hp Talon to a 50hp Citroen. Lovely ain't it?
Back to another Mits.
A Mirage Cyborg as a future 4G63T candidate.
"I've had more Mitsu's than you can imagine"
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143249
March 15, 2003 05:34 pm UTC
March 15, 2003 05:34 pm UTC
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,787
Malaysia
Jeremy Chin
Member
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Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,787
Malaysia
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and Vince...go ahead and continue to live in that little cave you call a "DSM". Sooner or later you will see the light.
Maybe I am not the driver for a 12 year old car you call a DSM that does nothing well other than going fast in a straight line, good snow traction and gas drinker.
I have better aspirations.
My favourite of the 8 mitsubishi's my family and I have had, is a 1980 Lancer 1.4L with RWD. Not my talon, nor my 2 galants, nor the 3 other lancers and an Evo II.
300hp Talon to a 50hp Citroen. Lovely ain't it?
Back to another Mits.
A Mirage Cyborg as a future 4G63T candidate.
"I've had more Mitsu's than you can imagine"
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143250
March 15, 2003 10:49 pm UTC
March 15, 2003 10:49 pm UTC
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Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,631
Toronto, Ontario,Canada
Thomas Toth
Insane Member
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Insane Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,631
Toronto, Ontario,Canada
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Originally posted by KEVIN KIRELUK:
Hey Thomas, someguy was tell me that you got smoked by a black elantra. Is there any truth to that? I know your car is fast(and loud), i was a victum of a fly-by on Kennedy rd. in scarboro. I always thought that you had the fastest hyundai, i guess i was wrong. Hopefully with that new turbo you got,you can regain your title as ultimate sleeper. That was back in 2000 i belive. I lost yes. My car is nowhere anything close to what it was back then. lucky if i had 250 hp lol. I wanted to race him again but he wouldnt race me. Best he ran was a 13.8 i belive on drag radials.He wanted to race me on a roll though. But yeah the elantra is fast, if u see him u will know, big NIZZTEX sticker on the rear bumper. But yeah i wanted to race him last year and i was told he doesnt want to run me again. I think it would be a diff out come this time around and they know i guess. Me fly by? Hmmm
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143253
March 16, 2003 01:53 am UTC
March 16, 2003 01:53 am UTC
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,720
Toronto
Darko Miodrag
ok wait, maybe I am
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ok wait, maybe I am
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,720
Toronto
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No offense, but as far as Im concerned "FWD" and "PERFORMANCE" don't even belong in the same sentences together.
An AWD can do anything a FWD can, better. When your FWD plows, you're fucked... at least with RWD and AWD you have the option (if you're making any decent amount of power) to kick the rear end out at will. If I can do it in my crippled AWD Talon, then anyone should be able to. Complaining about understeer should be against the law. It's easily remedied in an AWD car. FWD only gives you direct control of the front wheels, they do the pulling and the turning. AWD and RWD give you control of all 4 corners and leave a lot more room for suspension and tuning on the road course... you're not limited like in a FWD car.
Having the options, I absolutely can't comprehend why anyone would choose a FWD over RWD or AWD... it just makes no sense.
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143254
March 16, 2003 06:07 pm UTC
March 16, 2003 06:07 pm UTC
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Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,631
Toronto, Ontario,Canada
Thomas Toth
Insane Member
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Insane Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,631
Toronto, Ontario,Canada
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Originally posted by JOSE VEIGA: I remember a topic started by Thomas Toth months ago. I blieve it was asking people for their opinions on if he should convert to awd. So awd sucks eh? Did i anywhere say AWD sucks? This thread started as a joke from the fishing guy. I replied with stupid usless replies knowing this is a TEST section.People need to relax eh. Would i like my car AWD? well DUH ! Will it ever be? who knows
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143255
March 16, 2003 09:43 pm UTC
March 16, 2003 09:43 pm UTC
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,142
Thornhill
Jeff Feldsher
Member
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Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,142
Thornhill
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Originally posted by Thomas Toth:
[That was back in 2000 i belive. I lost yes.
My car is nowhere anything close to what it was back then. lucky if i had 250 hp lol. I wanted to race him again but he wouldnt race me. Best he ran was a 13.8 i belive on drag radials.He wanted to race me on a roll though. But yeah the elantra is fast, if u see him u will know, big NIZZTEX sticker on the rear bumper. But yeah i wanted to race him last year and i was told he doesnt want to run me again. I think it would be a diff out come this time around and they know i guess.
Me fly by? Hmmm Actually what I heard is that he ran a 12.8 I would like to line up against him one more time as well. No sure what will happen, he should be pushing close to 300whp in a 2600lb car...
90 TSi FWD
BPU+
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143256
March 16, 2003 10:51 pm UTC
March 16, 2003 10:51 pm UTC
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 461
Markham, Ont, Canada
Ian Currie
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 461
Markham, Ont, Canada
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All this bitching about whats better, whose faster, blablabla. I can solve this problem right now, how many exotic cars out there are FWD? That's right, NONE. Reason? FWD sucks. Problem solved, lets get back to peace and love.
04' Ram 3500 Cummins
85' 930 Turbo
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143260
March 17, 2003 01:12 am UTC
March 17, 2003 01:12 am UTC
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Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 4,971
Beamsville, Ont, Canada
Steve Kinnaird
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 4,971
Beamsville, Ont, Canada
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Sure.. but I believe the title of the thread is FWD vs AWD.. not FWD vs RWD..
Now, I'll have all kinds of time to talk about DSMs, because I won't be busy fixing mine!
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143261
March 17, 2003 02:34 am UTC
March 17, 2003 02:34 am UTC
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Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 549
London, ON
Dennis Wong
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 549
London, ON
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There is no question, FWD just plain sucks. With all the fancy gadgetry on new cars these days such as traction control and stability management, I'd take a RWD car with snows as long as it has limited slip, over a FWD car with snows w/o limited slip any day. Lets see, with FWD, start to accelerate, weight transfers away from the drive wheels, and you sit there spinning one wheel with absolutely no traction. On the 300+ days when there is snow on the roads, you are stuck with a front driving POS. Why is it that we're seeing a lot of new cars coming in RWD platforms? Whenever I tell anyone about how much I love AWD, I always get the same response. "Do we get enough snow here that you actually need AWD?". Why was Quattro banned from racing at one point? Is it because they race in the snow?
DSMless...but you'll never get rid of me!
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143262
March 17, 2003 02:38 am UTC
March 17, 2003 02:38 am UTC
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
Ronnie Fung
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
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FWD is ghetto. It always has been. Would I take a FWD DSM over a AWD DSM? Yes.
I'm talking from a 1G point of view here, a poor student one at that. Say I have $7500 to play with for the year as a car budget Inclusing price of car.
I buy an AWD DSM in good shape, I spend most of the money on the car itself. I do all maintenance and such if it has not been done. Add on prevenentative maintenance and I have little left for mods. Maybe enoguh for a MBC, K and N, and maybe a Catback. How fast am I after that? Not very fast if you ask me. How often do I get to drive to the cars limits? Not very often. How often do I drive in snow? How often do I launch it? MY point is, how often do I really need or want AWD?
Now...I buy a FWD, much cheaper, have much more money for mods left over. Good set of rubber, some carefully selected suspension pieces, loads more money for mods to rip it up on the highway. How often do I need to save gas? How often do I launch? How much cehaper is it to maintain a FWD? How much I rip it up on the highway merging or having thrills. My minimal mods on a FWD would kill a more moderatly modded AWD DSM. On the highway, on a roll, in a true 1/4 mile race too, provided I can drive the car properly.
This is personal. If I am poor, I will take a FWD to boot around town over an AWD to boot around. If I am building an all out performance machine with more money involved, I will build an AWD (provided I can only choose between FWD and AWD. It's simple.
AWD to go fast equals more money than a FWD to go fast. As for handling, I still maintain that with with minimal mods, I can and do corner harder in a FWD DSM than an AWD DSM. That's just me though. If I had more mods, maybe it would be different. I can not throttle steer with a DSM without enough mods, (I can't do it in a FWD either) but I find myslef wanting to in an AWD, but it just doens't have enough. I drive the cars completely differnt, maybe I just need to learn how to drive an AWD in the corners, because I would kill my AWD in any onramp. (unless it's snowing or raining)
Bear in mind, I am only comparing DSM's here. Not other manufacturers or models. FWD and AWD DSM's.
RWD is a true sports car.
-1986 Bastardized Mazda RX7
-2000 CBR 929RR (Street)
-2003 CBR 600RR (Track)
-2000 Chevrolet Xtreme
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143263
March 17, 2003 02:43 am UTC
March 17, 2003 02:43 am UTC
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,575
Mississauga, ON
Rafal Kraskiewicz
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,575
Mississauga, ON
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Well, to throw another wrench in, some prefer RWD in the snow. Because your drive wheels are indepedant of your steering wheels, the RWD gives you more control (not traction) in the white stuff.
What happens when the drive wheels lose grip in a FWD? You lose the ability to steer as well.. and (usually) you understeer and plow into the curb. Not so with RWD, you can even use the throttle to help you turn.
So basically, it all comes down to preference and ability.
'97 Cherokee
'92 Talon TSi AWD
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143264
March 17, 2003 03:30 am UTC
March 17, 2003 03:30 am UTC
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,142
Thornhill
Jeff Feldsher
Member
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Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,142
Thornhill
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Yeah definitely from a value standpoint FWD simply dominates. Sure if we all had thousands of dollars to blow we would be getting our cars of choice.
But given the choices some of us do have, we purchase what makes the most sense for what we want, and what we can afford.
90 TSi FWD
BPU+
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143265
March 17, 2003 04:11 am UTC
March 17, 2003 04:11 am UTC
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Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 549
London, ON
Dennis Wong
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 549
London, ON
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I can and do corner harder in a FWD DSM than an AWD DSM Now this I don't understand. In a hard corner, most of the weight is on the front outside tire. When you get on the throttle, some of the weight will be transferred to the rear, and your inside front tire will start spinning, and if you are hard on the throttle, most of the torque will be transferred to that tire. With AWD, it doesn't really matter. That's why you can get back on the throttle early with AWD cars. Once again, FWD becomes useless. Can you tell by now that I really despise FWD?
DSMless...but you'll never get rid of me!
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143266
March 17, 2003 04:53 am UTC
March 17, 2003 04:53 am UTC
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
Ronnie Fung
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
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Originally posted by Dennis Wong: I can and do corner harder in a FWD DSM than an AWD DSM It's called lift throttle. It ends up plowing the whole time, lift throttle technique does not work. Trail braking is sketchy, I ahve never had enough power for a CONTROLLED power oversteer in a DSM on dry ground.
-1986 Bastardized Mazda RX7
-2000 CBR 929RR (Street)
-2003 CBR 600RR (Track)
-2000 Chevrolet Xtreme
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143267
March 17, 2003 06:10 am UTC
March 17, 2003 06:10 am UTC
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,987
Mississauga, Ont
Jerry Rose
Insane Member
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Insane Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,987
Mississauga, Ont
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Quotes from Tommy and Bobby Archer on racing AWD Talons "And the entry into a corner is quicker than I believe everybody that we're racing against," Bobby continues. "And where there's a series of tight S corners, a series of rights and lefts, we're quicker in there. It's because of the AWD the car responds quicker. There's corner 8-9 at Mosport, and we can literally drive through that where other people were either on or off the gas. You can really catch people there. "Tommy and I started racing low-powered cars, and we've always had to be more aggressive in the corners. It [the all-wheel-drive Talon] allows us to be even more aggressive, especially in an endur-ance race. With the Talon, you just drive the car into the off-limits zone and drive through it with all the confidence in the world."……adds Tommy, "because of the capabilities of holding the road, tends to let you go farther into the corner even without you knowing that you're doing it. That was the one thing I noticed right away. Also, like at Lime Rock, a front-wheel-drive car would go up the hill and probably change lanes without turning the steering wheel, because you're going through a bump-steer mode. The car goes all the way to the top of the suspen-sion and back down. With this car [AWD], you just keep your foot to the floor." The added stability of all-wheel-drive also has a payoff in safety, which means life and limb, and the side benefit of keeping the car in the running when otherwise it might be out for good. "At Nelson Ledges, in the rain, we were using basically slick tires, and one of the guys slid off into the grass. Usually in a race car if you drive off into the wet grass ... well, you pick up speed! But he pulled it right out." Tommy got a little closer to the action talking about his own experience, he says, "You slide off even in wet weather, and you can accelerate back to the track. Whereas in most cars you just try make it back to the track, with this car you accelerate back to the track." "On the race track the Talon drives like a like a front wheel drive car - a superior front wheel drive car. You use the throttle a lot, very similiar to a front wheel driver" (this is due to the 50/50 torque split in case you werent sure a fact my race instructor at Shannonville clued me in on ....the Audi Quattros ran a 30/70 rear split for more of RWD characteristics) With an even torque split, all else being equal the front end does most of the work during corner-ing, since it usually carries most of the weight entering a turn. (Deceleration shifts the weight forward, which is necessary for big contact patches on the steered wheels.) If the car is designed with more torque going to the rear, then even under severe deceleration the lightly loaded rear drive wheels will still be doing their share. In fact, it is hoped that they're capable of doing more than their share; that way, by proper application of the gas pedal, the driver can induce throttle steer at will. For example, normally entering a right-handed corner you would try to do your braking before you got to the corner, then tend to get on the throttle and get the car set up right. You continue to depress the gas pedal, and if it doesn't want to turn, you can usually let off a little bit and induce it. Of course, there are things the all-wheel-drive car can do that a front-drive car can't. Bobby con-tinues, "Perfect case in point comparing it with a front-wheel-drive car: You go into a corner too deep and the inexperienced driver backs out of the throttle big time. Well, [with front-wheel-drive ] the front end stops and the back end keeps going, and you spin around. This car does not have that ten-dency. You let out of the throttle and it tends to steer in the direction that it was going. We have not spun one out yet, and we've run a whole bunch of racetracks and, I think, about eight different drivers." Tommy Archer says, "In a rear-wheel-drive car, when you take off and accelerate hard, the back end will slide. [With a] front-wheel-drive car, you normally get torque steer. With all-wheel-drive it basically makes it so you can drive the car with one hand. The car is simply smooth. My first impression of it was at Sears Point Raceway, which is one of the hardest tracks in the country, and I drove all the way from Turn 11 to Turn 4 with one hand on the wheel, the other hand talking on the radio.
Every day I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've stayed alive.
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143268
March 17, 2003 04:09 pm UTC
March 17, 2003 04:09 pm UTC
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,210
Niagara Falls Ontario
Vince Amato
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,210
Niagara Falls Ontario
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Originally posted by Jeremy Chin:
[QB]and Vince...go ahead and continue to live in that little cave you call a "DSM". Sooner or later you will see the light. Are you forgetting where you are Jeremy? This is a DSM board so 99.9% of the people here own and drive DSM's. This is the house of the DSM, you are in our house! If you consider it to be a cave you can go find some place else to post your drivel. Like I said, I think you would fit in real well with the Honda crowd,especialy with that "I am the best driver on this board attitude.". :rolleyes:
Maybe I am not the driver for a 12 year old car you call a DSM that does nothing well other than going fast in a straight line, good snow traction and gas drinker.
Again, get a honda if you dislike the DSM so much and want fuel economy.
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Re: FWDvsAWD
#143269
March 17, 2003 05:11 pm UTC
March 17, 2003 05:11 pm UTC
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
Ronnie Fung
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,463
Toronto
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Originally posted by Jerry Rose:
Quotes from Tommy and Bobby Archer on racing AWD
Talons
[QUOTE]"And the entry into a corner is quicker than I believe everybody that we're racing against," Bobby continues. "And where there's a series of tight S corners, a series of rights and lefts, we're quicker in there. It's because of the AWD the car responds quicker. There's corner 8-9 at Mosport, and we can literally drive through that where other people were either on or off the gas. You can really catch people there.
If I get another AWD DSM, maybe I should try that instead? Drive it like a FF? It just doens't feel right to me though. Maybe I need to work on the set up for it. 
-1986 Bastardized Mazda RX7
-2000 CBR 929RR (Street)
-2003 CBR 600RR (Track)
-2000 Chevrolet Xtreme
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