I unfortunately have lost all faith in Chris Martin and his company 23 chills clothing.

I have been in contact with this guy MANY times to get the clothes that I ordered from him (cash in advance) he has fell through on every occasion.
Just keep on feeding me excuse after excuse.

Make sure you know what you are getting yourself into by dealing with Chris Martin or 23 chills clothing I will never do buss. with him again.

We have made many arragements to pick-up/ship the clothes and everytime it is another excuse.

I have a bunch of emails from him promising this and that but I will post the email I sent him today as list all the emais is too long.




From : Kevin Bethune <kevbeth@hotmail.com>
Sent : March 3, 2004 11:19:35 AM
To : chillsclothing@hotmail.com
Subject : Clothing Last Chance!




Tracking #???

What is your problem?

We agree upon meeting in Barrie mid January, spoke to you multiple times about date, time meeting place. Called you cell on the way up as you requested, called 15 minutes away, called while waiting for 1/2 an hour at designated meeting place.

Your excuse: your cell battery. was not working. But you knew where and when we were to meet I also left you messages through-out the day. Either way you didn't show.

You agree that you will ship it out and you will tell me the clothes will arrive a week later.

Week and a half later I contact you because I haven't seen the clothes.

Your excuse: You sent me an email informing me you decided not to ship the clothes.

I was never informed.

You ask me to meet with you at a designated spot which we discussed numerous times. Which I had to switch around my schedule to do.

You excuse: You email me 1 hour before we were to meet, your son ended up in the hospital. Fair enough, but getting a little hard to believe.

Since then you have promised to ship the clothes numerous times also promising a tracking #, you have neglected to follow through with that promise 4-5 times.

You excuses: Everything from the post office was closed, will take care of it Monday, my wife is taking care of it, to its being done now, I have the tracking #'s I will send them to you later, I will send you tracking #'s later as I'm in a meeting. To your last excuse of not even replying.

You have been feeding me excuses since January.



I am posting a message in the ca.dsm.org good guy/bad guy forum. I'm not usually someone who bitches, but I also don't get screwed around to often.

This is not a good way to conduct buss.

I was considering getting some shirt printed up in the future, I will not be ordering these from your company.


Kevin Bethune >From: "Christopher Martin" >To: kevbeth@hotmail.com >Subject: RE: Clothing Last Chance... >Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 00:10:22 +0000 >

------------------------------------------------
Kevin Just got out of the meeting I am on my way home to send you the number.



23ChillsClothing- President
http://www.geocities.com/sickntwistedcustoms/23ChillsClothing.html
1-705-725-5717
chillsclothing@hotmail.com

SiknTwistedCustoms- Co-President
http://www.geocities.com/sickntwistedcustoms

>From: "Kevin Bethune" >To: chillsclothing@hotmail.com >Subject: RE: Clothing Last Chance... >Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 18:15:06 -0500 >
Tracking #?


Kevin Bethune >From: "Christopher Martin" >To: kevbeth@hotmail.com >Subject: RE: Clothing Last Chance... >Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:13:03 +0000 >
I am in a meeting as soon as I get back from it, the numbers are on my voicemail. You will have them as soon as I am done.


23ChillsClothing- President
http://www.geocities.com/sickntwistedcustoms/23ChillsClothing.html
1-705-725-5717
chillsclothing@hotmail.com

SiknTwistedCustoms- Co-President
http://www.geocities.com/sickntwistedcustoms

>From: "Kevin Bethune" >To: chillsclothing@hotmail.com >Subject: RE: Clothing Last Chance... >Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:11:59 -0500 >

Tracking #?


Kevin Bethune >From: "Christopher Martin" >To: kevbeth@hotmail.com >Subject: RE: Clothing Last Chance... >Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:07:42 +0000 >
Got it all buddy no sweat, wife just called and she is there now, the closed while I was here on Friday so I did't make it... will have the numbers as soon as she calls back no sweat.

Cheers.


23ChillsClothing- President
http://www.geocities.com/sickntwistedcustoms/23ChillsClothing.html
1-705-725-5717
chillsclothing@hotmail.com

SiknTwistedCustoms- Co-President
http://www.geocities.com/sickntwistedcustoms

>From: "Kevin Bethune" >To: chillsclothing@hotmail.com >Subject: RE: Clothing Last Chance... >Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:06:10 -0500 >
Tracking numbers please, you said you would send them to me on Friday.

JUst incase you forgot my order it is:

1 XL golf shirt

1 XL t-shirt

1 XL hooded sweater

all in black.


Kevin Bethune >From: "Christopher Martin" >To: kevbeth@hotmail.com >Subject: RE: Clothing Last Chance... >Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:12:20 +0000 >
Okay Kevin, I will meet so some other time I guess... I like to know my customers by face as well. I will have your tracking numbers tomorrow.

Thank-you and have a great day.


23ChillsClothing- President
http://www.geocities.com/sickntwistedcustoms/23ChillsClothing.html
1-705-725-5717
chillsclothing@hotmail.com

SiknTwistedCustoms- Co-President
http://www.geocities.com/sickntwistedcustoms

>From: "Kevin Bethune" >To: chillsclothing@hotmail.com >Subject: RE: Clothing Last Chance... >Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:04:40 -0500 > ><< message3.txt >>
Glad to hear everything is ok.

I won't be able to make it today, so if you could ship it that would be great.


Kevin Bethune >From: "Christopher Martin" >To: kevbeth@hotmail.com >Subject: Clothing Last Chance... >Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:36:40 +0000 >



This last post is in reference to us agreeing to meet up, him cancelling and wanting to meet the next day.

Hmmm.... interesting. I've kept to myself about my problems with him as well because I didn't want to hurt his chances at having a successful clothing business, but now that I see you have gone through the same crap, I'm starting to change my mind.

Right after the original shipment was sent out, I ordered a white hoody right away because they looked so good. I paid that day and I still have no hoody in god knows how longs it's been.

He says it's lost in shipping and he's getting insurance to cover it, which is fine. He's offered to drive it to me personally and I said no worries, don't go out of your way. It's no biggie, just ship another one. Still no tracking numbers....

He then insisted on delivering them, so I gave him four addresses that I frequent, and when I'm at them. If I'm not there when he comes by, to just leave it there. Suddenly since I agree to a drop off, he wants to ship it again. That was March 1st, he promised me tracking numbers.... still no numbers.

Thumbs down to 23chillsclothing from me too. Probably $53 wasted.

I spent almost $100 for a t-shirt, golf shirt and a hoodie.
How many others are having problems?

http://www.ca.dsm.org/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=19;t=000184

That wasn't exactly what I would call smooth.

Just received a reply email.

From : Christopher Martin <chillsclothing@hotmail.com>
Sent : March 3, 2004 12:12:08 PM
To : kevbeth@hotmail.com
Subject : Clothing

| | | Inbox


Okay First off, I did agree to meet you in Barrie after holding onto your items for a long peroid of time. Now apart from my phone not working Kevin I did indeed check mymessages from home and could not call you back as you did not leave your phone number for call back.

I have no excusses, your Clothing has been shipped and feel free to chose whoever you wish to deal with in the future other than 23ChillsClothing, I am sorry that you feel like you have been screwed and that I am giving you the run around but when I get back to my office as I am not in town and was away for a emergancy meeting yesterday afternoon you will have your tracking number.

After that is said and done, I wish you the best of luck in your future clothing needs.

I did this for "no profit" I have spent more money than I own on this club because these guys are family to me and friends. I did not do this for money making reasons and on top of that donating money towards the club. I had issues with shipping and have solved them by hand delivering products myself. Some people understand and some people don't, it's just life.

Once again when I get back to the office the number is yours and Thank-you
________________________________________________
I had asked to pick up the clothes because I was originally planning to purchase more items from him and of course his previous problems with shipping.
Although I didn't leave him my cell # we had agreed several times on the meeting place and the time.
He has made excuses (over 10 probably) through the whole process. If I were to have just received my items in a timely manner I wouldn't be posting this.
I can't believe this is happening to others as well.

Chris drove out of his way to drop a shirt off for me. He gets a from me. Sorry to hear about your guys bad luck. I would have taken him up on the drive to drop the clothes off.

I'm the first to say that I'm a VERY busy person, which is why meeting up in person is very difficult for me. Which is why I pushed for him to check up on the one that was shipped.

If I could just get a tracking number already, I could inquire with CanadaPost myself, but since he won't give me the numbers even though I've asked four times, I'm at his mercy.

Chris and I had arranged to meet up twice, first time he didn't show, second time he was unable to make it.
Now I just want it shipped.
If I get my clothing I have no problem with Chris or his company but I would never deal with him again.

Same here. He seems like a good guy, he's just not reliable and so I wouldn't do business again either.

It took a while for the hoodie to get shipped to Ottawa for me. But it eventually got here....

I was given a tracking number.

I've been having difficulties as well. Every few weeks I send an e-mail saying I haven't received my shirt yet. He is good at replying, i'll give him that. It's always "it's getting shipped out friday, i'll send you a tracking number". Then I wait until Wednesday or Thursday and send him an e-mail saying i haven't got my shirt yet. He replies saying it should be there by Friday. Then I wait over the weekend and e-mail him again, and the cycle starts all over again.
Is it really that hard to goto the fed-ex drop off or call ups and have stuff picked up and sent out? I've shipped plenty of stuff all over North America and never had any difficulties. Go figure, maybe i'm just lucky.
I received an e-mail from Chris saying he was going to deliver the clothing to my door on Sunday. I guess if he doesn't deliver, maybe we should go for a drive up to Barrie Noah?
Anyways, I hope it all works out. I hate it when a plan falls apart

Yes, I agree with what everyone has said above except with Kevin. I have read all of the posts above and I have learned something about business, you have people that love you and people that hate you.
Kevin for you to say that I didn't show up is unfair, you called me but never left me a message with your ****ing phone number!!!! I was like 20mins late and had I had your phone number I could have contacted you to say I was coming but would be late. Secondly, the second time was an emergancy, my son had an incident at daycare and I had to rush to the hospital. I do not care if you mad about the second time, I did email you and you confirmed that it was cool. I am sorry my son means more to me than any ****ing t-shirts or business.

I had issues. I worked my ass off and spend 100's making sure things were corrected. There are 4 people out of like 50 that are unhappy, and for those that have already received thier stuff, some will tell you I went beyond the call and made sure they were all satisfied.
I met people on side roads to get them their stuff, I placed orders for people on good faith to make sure that just because they coulden't pay upfront didn't mean that they didn't deserve clothing. I drove to peoples homes to collect money when their cars were broken. I meet people at Tim Hortons to provide them with clothing. I have corrected my issues with posting things my downfall was that I have been out of town for two days and Kevin I have your tracking number same with Noah, which you will receive as soon as I get back tonight. Joel and I are meeting this weekend along with Rick Seeman, I am personaly delivering thier stuff to them.
That would be every last customer, not satisfied, but atleast completed.
Kevin, Noah, I am sad to hear about your never doing business with me again. I can't say that I do not blame you, and you will be reinbursed for your troubles.

Thank-you for the feedback everyone, I will use this feedback to better not only myself but my business.
I apologize for the troubles that the troubles that people have had on my behalf.

Chris Martin.

By the way the comment about the "making a drive up to Barrie?" I would suggest you edit your post! I do not see it as being a bright idea. I am a very calm and collective person untill you involve my family. I will not stand for threats... Please edit your post!
Thank-you.

After this is over I will be re-signing from this board. I DO NOT BLAME PEOPLE FOR BEING PISSED OFF TO THE ENTH DEGREE, I WOULD BE TOO! but I DONT stand for threats LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR. You retract your previous statement Joel and apologize for it, or you can come to Barrie and pay me a visit.

90 Burns Circle
Barrie, On
L4N 5J8

It is sad that another board member would even think about this, I have replied to every last email and every last phone call. There is no need for threats and this will be my last post on this board.
Those awaiting clothing can call my office 416-864-6825 or email me at chillsclothing@hotmail.com until sunday after that I wish to have no business with Club DSM ever, its unfair to those who have no issues, but I see it as the best answer when people threaten.

I have had nothing but good things to say about this club and I hope it continues to grow and be knowledgeable for those who care.


Regular Member
Member # 3205

Member Rated:
posted March 02, 2004 10:19 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to thank everyone that had a hand in the process of the 23ChillsClothing/Club DSM Clothing Line.
Chuck- Logo Design
Julie- Logo
Andrew B for allowing us to proudly show off our club through clothing.
Also on a smaller note, Thank-you to all that bought clothing and worked with my staff and I through all the issues with the Canada Post. 23ChillsClothing would not have gotten off the ground if it were not for the friends and family at DSM Canada. I appreciate every ounce of patience and hard work that was put in by all of you. 23ChillsClothing is now making arraignments to become a member of the "Hall Of Fame" by donating money towards this great club.

Once again thank-you to everyone and we here at 23ChillsClothing look forward to sponsoring your events in the future.
Cheers.

[ March 02, 2004, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: Chris Martin ]


Good luck and best wishes. Please delete my profile as of now thank-you.

Chris I said maybe we should go up to Barrie meaning that that was the only way we'd get our stuff. Maybe if you had a store or something, we could come up and purchase stuff from you like regular business.
I didn't mean it as a threat! I'm really not that kind of person. I apologize if you took offense to that, but trust me, it wasn't meant to be a threat.

When I dealt with Chris he was really helpfull. I got my stuff awhile back, with no problems. He's a good guy.

All of my dealings with him have been positive as well...

All of my dealings with him have been positive as well...

Like I said in the past posts Chris, I just want my clothing.
Don't take it personally.

As for meeting in Barrie. We had decided to meet in Barrie because I was driving through there and thats where he lives. Also Chris and I had discussed getting some other shirts made up for another purpose. I was hoping to discuss that with him when we met.

We had agreed on the date, location, and time one week prior.
Confirmed date, time, and location with Chris 2 days before we were to meet.
Comfirmed with Chris the day of the meet and discussed time and location.
We agreed we were to meet at Tim Hortons just off the 400 in Barrie at between 5:00 and 5:30.
I called him as requested when I got on the 400(at 407).
I called him 20 minutes out of Barrie and left a message as requested.
I called from our designated meeting spot (I arrived at 5:15ish).
The girlfriend and I decided to eat dinner at Timmy's while waiting.
Called Chris's cell while eating, left him a message that we were here.
Called Chriis's cell after finished eating but I didn't leave a message.
Sat around, smoked a cig. and waited for a few minutes.
Called Chris's cell at 6:05 to tell him that I was taking off (I was on my way up north) and I still had a couple of hours driving ahead of me.

Not a big deal. Bugged me at the time but I brushed it off.
I can understand Chris's point of me not leaving a phone#(very rarely do I give out my phone#), but he agreed several times to the location and time, and I did stay untill 6:05 (35 minutes past the agreed metting time).

After the weekend I left him a message saying we could meet up another time or he could ship it, whatever he prefered.

He decided he didn't want to ship instead he would rather meet up.

We later agreed on another meeting time, location and date. Timmy's at 400 and 407 area at 5:00. I confirmed this a week in advance, 2 days leading up and the day of the meeting.
Chris emailed me at approx. 4:00 stating he had an emergency he had to go to.

I understand you have do what you have to do.

I requersted at that point that he ship the clothing to me.

He agreed and apparently it was on its way. He even stated "its not a big deal shipping because of the problems i had in the past with the shipper all the previous stuff shipped out free of charge" so he was a little ahead of the game for shipping costs because of the free shipping.

A week and a half later the clothing had not arrived so I email Chris to find out what was going on. Recived a reply email stating "I thought I told you I cancelled the shipping?".

I was never informed of this.

At this point he agrees once again to shipping the clothing.

I sent him an email a week later he stated once again it was on its way and he will give me another tracking #.

Anyways over the next couple of weeks Chris and I send each other multipe emails.(actual qoutes)

Christopher Martin" >To: kevbeth@hotmail.com >Subject: RE: Clothing Last Chance... >Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004
I will have your tracking numbers tomorrow.

Thank-you and have a great day.

_________________________________________________

>From: "Kevin Bethune" >To: chillsclothing@hotmail.com Mon, 01 Mar 2004

Tracking numbers please, you said you would send them to me on Friday.
Just incase you forgot my order it is:

1 XL golf shirt

1 XL t-shirt

1 XL hooded sweater

all in black.
________________________________________________
From: "Christopher Martin" >To: kevbeth@hotmail.com
Got it all buddy no sweat, wife just called and she is there now, the closed while I was here on Friday so I did't make it... will have the numbers as soon as she calls back no sweat.

Cheers.
________________________________________________

>From: "Kevin Bethune" >To: chillsclothing@hotmail.com >Subject: RE: Clothing Last Chance... >Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:11:59 -0500 >

Tracking #?
________________________________________________

From: "Christopher Martin" >To: kevbeth@hotmail.com >Subject: RE: Clothing Last Chance... >Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:13:03 +0000 >
I am in a meeting as soon as I get back from it, the numbers are on my voicemail. You will have them as soon as I am done.
_________________________________________________


Christopher Martin <chillsclothing@hotmail.com>
Sent : March 2, 2004 7:10:22 PM
To : kevbeth@hotmail.com

Kevin Just got out of the meeting I am on my way home to send you the number.

_________________________________________________

Christopher Martin <chillsclothing@hotmail.com>
Sent : March 3, 2004 12:12:08 PM
To : kevbeth@hotmail.com
Subject : Clothing
Once again when I get back to the office the number is yours and Thank-you

________________________________________________

Christopher Martin <chillsclothing@hotmail.com>
Sent : March 4, 2004 1:07:20 PM
To : kevbeth@hotmail.com
Subject : RE: Clothing
Kevin I will return to the office today at around 6pm, you will have your tracking number as soon as I get in.
_________________________________________________

And here we are.
Like I said I Don't have anything against Chris.

I'm just getting the runaround repeatedly, I just want my clothes.

Just got another e-mail from Chris:

From : Christopher Martin <chillsclothing@hotmail.com>
Sent : March 4, 2004 3:40:43 PM
To : kevbeth@hotmail.com
Subject : Ongoing Bull****!

| | | Inbox


The fact of the matter is you still don't have clothing and your ongoing bashing is only partly true. After this weekend all will be over and done with and you can continue to bash all you want as I really could care less Kevin. I have answered each and everyone of your emails as someone making transactions would do, but could never return phone calls because you can't leave your number. I see you being mad for me not being at Tim's but I was late, no number to call back..

As I said your number is coming tonight.. I am back in the office around 6pm after your number has been received, I need confirmation that you got it. After that what you choose to say and do is your business.

This is not a business like email and feel free to post this on the boards like everything else.

I have handled this issue to the best of my capabilties, and I have nothing else to say to you or the club for that matter.

Regards,


23ChillsClothing- President
http://www.geocities.com/sickntwistedcustoms/23ChillsClothing.html
1-705-725-5717
chillsclothing@hotmail.com

_________________________________________________

Like I said Chris I just want my clothing and I personally don't feel I'm "bashing" you or your company. Just reporting the facts.

Chris is a great guy in my mind, even though I have not purchased anything from his clothing business. I'm not sure how many of you attended the Invasion last summer, but without Chris and a few Ottawa members, it wouldn't have happened without him.

I was in Toronto a few months ago visiting a friend, and I phoned Chris at work to say a quick hello and let him know I was in the area, and he ended up taking me out for lunch that day. Great guy in my books, and I know he works quite hard with all of his business's.

Just wanted to let everyone know he's not a bad person at all, as it can be difficult at times when having a fresh business.

I'm not trying to make excuses as to why your transaction went poorly with Chris, I'm just letting everyone know he's still a good in my books.

Peter, that's been my stance as well. He does seem like a good guy, and I appreciate him being busy. He says he has three jobs, well I have two and I go to school part time, so I know all about it.

But like Kevin, he's promised me tracking numbers numerous times, but I never get them. It just doesn't add up, something ins't right. But I'm still giving him the benefit of the doubt, it's just getting harder and harder to do. Especially now that I see Kevin is having the same problems.

Chris how am I "bashing"?

By letting people know what transpired between us?

What part of everything I said is untrue?



Why are you getting pissed?

If you followed through with anything you said, this post wouldn't be here.

BTW thats great that you helped out people by meeting with them, and not making them pay up front. Unfortunately you have not met with me nor have you sent me the tracking # and Chris, I paid upfront.

Damn....
I think I told Chris I've loved him before, maybe even kissed him...
maybe once or twice...

awww hell.. i can't remember... i was drunk.

Everyone has their tracking numbers, look at your emails, I have been on the road dealing with this **** since 5am, It my b-day so I am taking the rest of the night off.

Kevin, enjoy
Noah, enjoy
Rick, you now have a tracking number because I am not going to waste anymore time driving to meet people...
Last and for sure least Joel C, you now have a tracking number as well. Be thankfull that I could not leave work today otherwise we would see who meets who at who's door!

Goodbye, I need emails to say that it was received after that don't bother me.

I bid fair well to those people like Mike Jackson and Jorge Blair, Peter H Cortess, Tom and Chuck.

I will see you all again I am sure.

Im outty, I figured I owed one last post so that people know **** has been delt with.

Peace.

Well I got my tracking number. No wonder I didn't get it when he said he would give it to me, he hadn't shipped it yet! Why am I not surprised.

Chris, if doing business is such a hassle for you, why do you bother? I don't feel sorry for you that you had to go to all this work, because you didn't do it right in the first place. I honestly don't think it was ever sent in the first place. Give me a tracking number for my original shipment and I'll retract my statement, but I don't think anything was ever sent.

--without prejudice--

I read this post, with some dismay.
Chris had the courtesy to ask us, before selling any of his stuff on here, and I appreciate that.

But it seems he should have asked a few more questions, prior to actually "going into business".

Here's a few pieces of wisdom for anyone, in a similar situation, using this case as an example.

(the definition of Wisdom; is intelligence gained through experience)

1. Stop any mellowdrama.
ie: "Tried to do everyone a favour..."
"Did it for the good of the club..."
"Never posting here again..."
"I don't like to be threatened..."
Be upfront, be honest.
If you were only hear to sell shirts, then you should have said that up-front.

Many club members have done shirt buys and projects over the years, myself included, and none of us have ever had ONE TENTH of this many problems.

Where there is smoke... is all I will say.
Or, as another member likes to say, "If it quacks like a duck..."

2. Get a real presence.
A web page, with a fixed mailing address, and a real email address. (hotmail is for 12 year-olds and porno freaks, not legit businesses)
Maybe even a phone number too.

3. Don't take on more than you can handle.
Time wise, OR financially.
It's great to have a fantastic new exciting business, but recognize your own physical and financial limits, as best you can.
ie: if you don't have time to answer questions, deal with shipping, etc, don't even get started.
ie: if you don't have the ready cash to be able to absorb a complete loss and wait while you fight with Canada Post, don't even get started.

You're only going to disappoint others, and upset yourself... it's not the customer's problem, if Canada Post fails you -- it's your problem.

4. Go to www.Canadapost.ca and READ.
They explain all shipping methods, guarantees, insurance, tracking, etc, right on their website.
Similarly, you can ask about your options at the post office.

Personally, I've had NOTHING but GOOD RESULTS with Canada Post, shipping locally, and internationally. Not always the quickest, but it does get there.

5. Insure and track, ALL shipments.
Don't expect customers to do the work for you.
When you assume responsibility for shipping, your packages/products are FOB the customer's front door. (that means YOU are responsible, until the person gets it)

6. Don't lie.
If you haven't shipped something, just come clean. (as was apparently the truth with Noah's shipment)
If you're still holding cash, give the person the option of returning it.
If you've spent the cash on ordering the shirts, and are waiting on a supplier -- THAT'S COOL -- but then give updates, and the name of the supplier IF NEED BE.

If you've spent the cash paying your Visa bill, and are now scrambling to find the cash to actually buy the shirts, shame on you...
(I am not implying that is the case here, but I had a case in the past where that was indeed true)

7. Use a reputable payment method, like Visa, or at least PayPal. (it protects BOTH parties)


Again, Chris, this isn't meant to pick on you PERSONALLY, I simply hope this will serve to help others, either in the same boat, or before they even get into the boat...

I think maybe you just got in a bit over your head, this first time.
And, if that's the case, and in the end no one was out any cash/products, then we can all just carry on with life, and be happy that we learned something new today.

If that is the case, and you adjusted your practicies to cover the problem areas, I'd buy from you next time.

I would like to thank Chris for finally getting the tracking #.

I would like to point out that I'm sorry I had to put him out so much by having him finally ship out my product.

I had the understanding (from his many e-mails) that he had already shipped the clothing and all he needed to get was a tracking #.

Apparently this was not the case as the package was received by Canada Post yesterday.

I will have to say that for whatever reason Chris got upset for me posting about my dealing with his company, he brought it upon himself.

I still don't know how I'm "bashing" him or his company?



Sorry once again Chris for putting you out so much by asking you numorous times for a tracking # that didn't exist.

If you had been honest and told me you hadn't had a chance to ship it yet I would be a little more understanding.

*my first bash*
To find out finally that it was all b*llsh*t made me an even more dis-satisfied customer.

Just like Noah stated if you can provide me with all the previous tracking #'s you promised me(to prove you aren't full of it) I will apologize to you publicly for saying that you are full of it.

*end of bash*

As others have said, I'm sure your a good guy, but I don't understand the runaround you gave myself and others.

I also don't understand your upset when I called you out on this issue, especially since you obviously had not shipped it out as stated.

I think Andrew's comments are pretty fair. Maybe Chris did get in a little deep on his first attempt, or for whatever reason he messed up a couple of shipments. Maybe he was embarassed to admit he messed them up, who really knows what happened, other than Chris himself? As far as I know, though, he is a good guy! It seems everyone is getting their stuff in the end, and guys who are pissed off like Kevin and Noah just aren't going to deal with him again, that's just a fact,...but I hope the rest of us are still able to! Business isn't easy, and I wish Chris well, and I will support him when the time comes for me to purchase the goods he is selling!!

Let's all lighten up on the bashing/defending...if everyone has tracking numbers, let's give Canada Post a few days, and then maybe we can drop this with as little damage as possible??

Exactly. I too have a tracking number!

For the record, I did appologize to Chris, and I did not state that I was "coming to his door", or "threaten" him in any way.

Did you read the entire post? Have I bashed him? No, infact I said he seems like a good guy, but fact is fact, I never got my nubmers. I just got them late last night. He said he would give me my numbers on the 1st:

posted March 01, 2004 08:45 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Almost 500 dollars but hey I am doing this **** for the DSM Family... I will email your numbers later.
Cheers.

--------------------
23ChillsClothing - President,CEO
chillsclothing@hotmail.com
SiknTwistedCustoms - President,CEO

--------------------------------------------------

Now I get the numbers on the 4th, only to find out he didn't ship it until the 4th.

I asked for the original tracking number 4 times and he kept saying he has it and he'll provide it when he gets to (insert destination here). It was either home, the office, whatever. I just never got them. I accused him of not having shipped it at all, and if he could prove he did, then I would apologize right here in this thread, and this is what I got:

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Martin [mailto:chillsclothing@hotmail.com]
Sent: March 5, 2004 10:08 AM
To: nwiles@golden.net; Noah Wiles
Subject: Tracking Number...


Now since being under fire, I first thought I would give you the original tracking number so I went to the post office gather all the infomation, you can call them if you would like..... and because they ****ed up yours, Kevin's and Rick's They were put under the same number, I run my business and only my business, I don't know how this tracking things works.... this was the first time I have every done this Canada Post **** and will never do it again.

I got one number for three different people and I checked it out and it showed as being invalid... so I asked them how I can show when it was originally sent...Now that it has been ****ed up and you all got the same numbers they had to cancell it and re-do the numbers without my knowledge..... thereofore had I got the original numbers I would have slammed them up on the board with alot of **** talking after that to say what more can I do, I shipped them once, it failed, I returned all emails ASAP.... I returned all calls ASAP so I make deals with people to meet... but you yourself were too busy... so you ask me to ship it again and I did so.

You can call it anyway you wish Mr. Wiles.. I love my company, I live for this ****...... what I don't live for is people that call me a liar......

Your clothing is on its way as promised, whatelse can I do to satisfy you??????

I asked everyone if they wanted money back, they all said no, it's unfair that people cut and paste emails to make **** worse than it was.... not saying you did this but Kevin sure did.

If you need anything else let me know, if you want your money back as well feel free to come and get it anytime you wish.

Hopefully somewhere in this mess your satisfied somewhere

----------------------------------------------------

Okay, so you have to go to the post office to get the nubmer? Does this mean you never had it? So why did you continue to tell me you would get them to me? Why did I pay an extra $8 in shipping as well when you want to just deliver it?

So I reply with the following:


-----Original Message-----
From: Noah Wiles
Sent: March 5, 2004 10:14 AM
To: 'Christopher Martin'
Subject: RE: Tracking Number...


Why didn't you just say so the first four times I asked for it? It's all about communication man. Sure you returned emails promptly, but you just kept buying yourself more time, saying you would get the number to me. But now you say you are trying to get the original tracking number, which tells me you never had it in the first place. To many holes, to many gaps in your stories. I just hope my hoody arrives as I ordered it.

Noah

-------------------------------------------------

I thought that was pretty easy to reply to... simply question no? I get this professional piece of work:

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Martin [mailto:chillsclothing@hotmail.com]
Sent: March 5, 2004 10:24 AM
To: Noah Wiles
Subject: RE: Tracking Number...

I had the original tracking number do you not understand what I am saying to you!!!!! I had it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They ****ed up!!!!! I resent it!!!!!!!!!

If they don't arrive, email me!

---------------------------------------------------

My reply:

-----Original Message-----
From: Noah Wiles
Sent: March 5, 2004 10:28 AM
To: 'Christopher Martin'
Subject: RE: Tracking Number...


Chris,

Fair enough, please refrain from resorting to swearing and cursing. You are running a business here and I wish you luck but you need to be professional. If the hoody shows up, I will keep you in mind for future sales as I like to support people I know and who are trying to get things started, but I need to know you can be counted on.

Maybe it's time to look into a different shipping method since you've had so many problems with Canada Post.

I will let you know when the package arrives, and good luck to you.

Noah

----------------------------------------------------

Why am I having to be the professional one? I'm the one out $53 and nothing to show for it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Martin [mailto:chillsclothing@hotmail.com]
Sent: March 5, 2004 10:52 AM
To: Noah Wiles
Subject: RE: Tracking Number...


Noah, this has gone beyond being about business. Enough said, you have the number, track your package.

I cannot do anything more for you, I email, email, and email time and time again, try and arrainge meeting with you, when all else failed I re-sent the package. I will reinburse you for your troubles if that is what your looking for... the 45 dollars is not too much of an issue. To me its more about the principal than the money. I did what I said I did and considering I know this, I will continue to conduct my business the way I see fit.

Its a deal gone sour, but resolved none the less. Your stuff will arrive. And I wish you better luck next time when finding someone to provide you with clothing needs.

Thank-you

Chris Martin - 23ChillsClothing President


23ChillsClothing- President
http://www.geocities.com/sickntwistedcustoms/23ChillsClothing.html
1-705-725-5717
chillsclothing@hotmail.com

SiknTwistedCustoms- Co-President
http://www.geocities.com/sickntwistedcustoms

----------------------------------------------


I hope my hoody shows up and it's what I ordered. :rolleyes:

So much work for a silly sweat shirt. I'm a pretty easy going guy. I always told him not to sweat it, just figure out what's wrong with the shipping and resolve it. I told him there's no need to drive 1.5 hours just to give me a hoody when he could simply ship it again and only drive 5 minutes to do it.

I'll be happy when this is done with.

Noah, I wasn't saying anyone in particular bashed the guy....but he feels bashed, and I know how that is. He OBVIOUSLY screwed up some shipments, and for whatever reason, doesn't really want to come out and admit that....but, don't they say all's well that ends well?

I know I trust him fully, would do business with him anytime, I doubt if you will again. I am just saying it seems the stuff is on its way now, lets let Canada Post take over from here, and then those that don't want to do business with him again don't have to, those of us who wish to, can....

I was just hoping this would fade away peacefully....

Its takes a big person to send an email apology like he did, even though he was not required to.

I love my hoodie and wear it all the time!!

Thanks for the positive feedback Ziggy and Shawn, I'm sure Chris appreciates it, as much as I do.

Positive feedback is just as important as negative.

Let's leave this topic alone now, please, unless Chris, Kevin or Noah would like to add anything more, after receiving their shipments.

I don't think you get it Ziggy. I'm glad Kevin posted this, I should have done it myself sooner. Now that this has been put out in the open, it looks like we are getting our orders now. If Kevin hadn't done this thread, who know's where we would be at. It's sad when you have to put someone in the spotlight and put a little heat on to get results, but sometimes you have to look out for your own interests. I never said anything earlier to protect Chris's image as I thought I was the only one having problems.

Also Ziggy, if Slowboy took 6 weeks to send you a part I ordered from you, would you not be upset with them? If they did it to several people, would you not want to warn others about this?

This will be closed once Kevin and I have received our shipments. I do want to thank Chris for finally coming through with the numbers. 6 weeks late is better then nothing at all right?

Okay Here we go again....

I have nothing left to comment on.
Thanks Shawn for the reassuring remarks, you were one person that was the most mad but when explained in an email what went down you are the only person I think understood the issues at hand.

Andrew, You could have done all the investaging in the world as I did before doing this company but as I told everyone in the begining that this was my first order for a club. Previous to this I only has some samples.

I could not prevent some of the things that happened. Some I do except responsability for but others I do not.

I apologised on behalf of all of us at 23ChillsClothing I am the President of my staff and I accept full responsabilities for the events that took place...

You can all beat this to death all you want. I will still be in business but will no longer be a member here at Club DSM Canada.

Shawn and Ziggy are true friends and I would say out of all the people the only person that should be pissed off should be Shawn and he has had nothing but good things to say.Shawn its people like you that I work for.

Anyways enough said on this topic, I will check again on here next week as a guest to make sure everyone stuff arrived.

Joel.. I never said that you said something about knocking on my door, I said you said something about coming to Barrie and I said to you in an email that if I would have had the day off yesterday I would have been knocking on your door faster than you could have retracted your statement.

My work is done here, my letter was sent, take it for what it is. Its an apology to people like Shawn and Ziggy, not people like Kevin and Joel.

I will no longer be doing any business directly or in-directly with Club DSM in the future.

Thank-you for the space

For the record, I did appologize to Chris, and I did not state that I was "coming to his door", or "threaten" him in any way. [/QB][/QUOTE]

The only reason you have one is because I refuse to waste time driving to meet you after your lack of respect towards me.
You made the plans for me to hold your **** because of getting your teeth pulled. You wanted to meet until you had to go under the knife or whatever it is that you had done.
If you going to talk, tell the real story, you are someone that should have anything to say!!!

These are the e-mails that Chris and I have exchanged since the beginning of February:
>From: "joel stevens" >To: >Subject: dsm shirt >Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:01:11 -0500 > > Hey Chris, I haven't received my black xl longsleeved dsm shirt yet? Any idea when it might show up? Thanks dude, Joel.

Before Friday buddy, my apologize for the lack of communication I am deathly ill my friend

Still no shirt dude. Just lettin you know. Feeling any better? I've gotta
go get my tonsil's out next friday. Any-ways, let me know dude. Thanks,
Joel.

Joel sorry to hear about the tonsols, It should arrive before Friday... I called today.

Thanks for understanding.

Good Luck

Cheers.


No sweat dude.

>From: "joel stevens" >To: >Subject: dsm shirt >Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:22:36 -0500 > > Hey Chris, still no shirt? I'm laid up for a while now with getting my tonsil's out and all. Maybe I could meet you somewhere to pick up the shirt? Anyway's let me know dude, thanks, Joel.

Joel anytime you would like you let me know.....I have not got in touch with Canada Post as they seem to be avoiding me but I have another one here for you so please let me know

Alrighty, where do you work/live. Maybe I could catch up with you somewhere?

Live in Barrie, work in the T.O but should have new wheels for the weekend so I can meet you almost anywhere my man.

Let me know what your thinking


Ya, i'm still pretty screwed up from my surgery. Could you not just use ups
or fed ex? I don't think i'll be driving for a while, the perc's are working
real good! Let me know, thanks, Joel.

I will use a shipper this friday buddy, I will have the tracking number for you shortly and I hope your feeling better soon pal.

Cheers.


Then I received a pm from Chris from this site:

Author Topic: Clothing
Chris Martin
Regular Member
Member # 3205 posted March 01, 2004 02:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clothing is being delivered by me this sunday. I will drop it off at the address given.
Thank-you

--------------------
23ChillsClothing - President,CEO
chillsclothing@hotmail.com
SiknTwistedCustoms - President,CEO

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 349 | From: Barrie-Home/Toronto- Work | Registered: Jun 2003


My reply was an e-mail to him:

Chris, I'm not going to be home this weekend, or for a few weeks. I saw on
the dsm ubb that some other people were having troubles with you. If you do
still plan on coming by on Sunday, please just leave it by my side door on the
other side of the gate. My address is : 62 ottawa cres
Guelph, Ont.
N1E 2A6
It was a long sleeved black xl dsm shirt that I paid for in case you've
forgotten. I hope this will get resolved soon as i'm starting to get annoyed
with this. Thank-you, Joel Stevens.


Yes I told you that I was coming by and that I will do.

It will be there sunday, Yes there is two other people I am having issues with and those are to be solved this weekend as well. I sent out over 50 things to different address and had problems with only three.

I apologize. My way of resolving is making the trip myself


Then I "threatened" Chris to which he demanded an apology. I apologized both on this board and I sent him and e-mail:

Chris I said maybe we should go up to Barrie meaning that that was the only way we'd get our stuff. Maybe if you had a store or something, we could come up and purchase stuff from you like regular business. > I didn't mean it as a threat! I'm really not that kind of person. I apologize if you took offense to that, but trust me, it wasn't meant to be a threat. > > -------------------- > 13.23 @ 104.4mph > 14b, MJ hacked maf, 2.5 turbo back to 3" muffler, open dump > > > I'm sorry to hear about your troubles and resignation from the club. I wish you the best of luck in further endeavors.


Thank-you for clearing this up, Your clothing will arrive sunday at your side door in a shipping bag so that it is not tampered with or weather effected as stated.

Thank-you


Now, in my opinion, this is where it should have ended. I know that I offended him, I didn't mean to and apologized for it. The quote above makes me think that everything is cool. Well, then I get this e-mail from Chris:

Do not ever ever make the mistake of even coming close to threating me!

And he is the one doing the bashing now. For someone who supposedly wasn't going to come onto this site anymore, and one who was through with this club, Chris why say any more? I thought this ubb was supposed to be for car enthusiast's, not a friggin soap opera.

"Shawn and Ziggy are true friends..."

And I thought they were just satisfied customers.

Enough of the soap opera Chris... you're not going to start a flame-fest here, by turning one member against another, for the sake of a few lousy t-shirts.

We thank you for your attempt to do business with our club members, but I would politely and constructively suggest that you figure out some proper business etiquette and practices, prior to putting your career on the line for your clothing business.

I will open this thread again, if the clothing does not arrive.

Chris had a few last comments on this topic, that seemed relavent. He sent them to me, as the thread was closed.
Here are his un-edited comments:

"You know what Andrew, **** you and your lousy club... delete my ****!!

**** this place.
You only think you know the story but you really don't!"

-shrug-

We only ever asked for the real and honest story, and I believe the facts are in evidence.

As always, if you'd care to offer any evidence to the contrary, I am only too happy to look at it.

The bottom line here is, that the tracking numbers finally provided to the two individuals who raised this complaint, clearly showed the shipping dates, contrary to your statements.

-----------
Postscript:

Chris has emailed me now to advise me that he was drunk on Friday when he wrote that message, has apologized, and retracted it.

His message:

"OMG.... just looked at the PM I sent you from Friday... Please disreguard... I was indeed under the influence and should not have been on the computer at that time.
My apologies.

I will take your words into consideration about business in the future.

Thank-you, once again please disreguard PM from Friday, My apologies."

Fair enough, thanks Chris.
Intentions received, and appreciated.

An update on the 23 Chills Clothing:

- The package arrived at my pay pal address even though I asked for it to be shipped to a different address, but that's no problem.

- Open the package and expect a Large White Hoody but instead get an XL that is just swimming on me.

I'm happy to finally have something though, but if anyone wants to buy it from me and it will fit them, let me know.

I received my package from Chris, it also did not arrive at the requested addy. but at the paypal addy.

I had to go pick it up, but not a big deal for me.

Thanks for finally getting this out Chris.

That's too bad about the addresses, but, just so everyone knows...

As a seller, PayPal will protect you if the buyer has a verified shipping address, and you use that specific address to ship products to.

So, best thing to do, is to update PayPal with your correct shipping address, and select that when you purchase.

Andrew, I was aware of that, but since Chris couldn't seem to ship to that address, I was trying to give him some more options. The other address was in Oakville that I gave him rather then Mississauga. It didn't matter where it came to me, I just wanted the package.

Fair enough.

I'd like to add one last comment...

I tried on the hoody last night and the fit isn't to bad to be honest. It's pretty small for an XL.

But what I would like to add is that it's a damn nice hoody. Very nice quality, so I have to give a kudos to Chris on the quality of the hoody.