Well I wasn't going to do this but since Julio somehow feels justified about this transaction I thought I'd better warn other memebers. Julio only you and I knew what I was refering to in that upgrade post, you should have just let it lie as a warning.

Julio had some 2G leathers up for sale from a 95. You can read the add here . Here is how he described the seats "Hi I am selling a full leather seat combo from a 1995 eagle talon . They are in amazing condition and fully adjusatble. The driver seat is fully automatic and operational."

After some talking we agreed on a price of $300 for just the fronts because they were "operational" and in "amazing" condition and I needed seats pretty bad (and he found a buyer for the rear seat seperately). I asked again about the condition of the seats and was assured they were in great shape. I even asked if this was from the DSM that got sideswiped on the drivers side (I remembered a post came up recently) and he said no this was from his own Talon since he was buying race seats from Marco.

So I drove to his place in TO (I'm in Kitchener) and met with him just after sunset. He was friendly and I am too trusting so when he brought the seats out I didn't go over them well enough. I looked at the condition of the leather but didn't unfold them to inspect the structural integrity since that would definately rule out the "operational" and "amazing" ratings.

However, once I installed the drivers side seat and leaned back on it I got a big surprise. The backrest was loose on the drivers side, not down at the pivot but a little higher. I could not lean back on it, it provided no support. Uh oh, so I peeled back the leather in that area. The backrest support (basically a big u shaped support running from one side up to the top down to the other side was absolutely destroyed. There was a feeble attempt to try and hold what was left to the support to the main part of the seat with a small 12mm bolt through wrecked matterial but that didn't even hold up to me leaning back on it.

So first of all I think it is absolutely impossible that Julio did not know the state this seat was in. It was niether in "amazing condition" nor even "operational" as claimed. Secondly someone tried to bandaid it so that it seemed okay so that it could be sold. If the bandaid had worked a little better I might have been driving when the seat failed and worst case it may have killed me.

I confronted Julio in an email and stated there was no way he did not know what condition it was in. He claimed he didn't know (highly unlikely) just saying take it to Marco and he'll fix it up (with a bunch of sorries). So he did blatantly lie that the seats were in "operational" and "amazing condition" and he did sell me a drivers seat that could not possibly be used and was a tremendous safety risk. Afterwards he did offer for someone else to fix his mess but you don't screw around with safety items in a car. Even a repaired seat is a risk and I would expect a fact like that to be declared as a minimum. Driving back to TO on a weekday on my time (I work) so Marco can try to fix this seat leaving risk that it's not as safe as an undammaged one was not an option.

Heck I even talked to Marco about it afterwards and he told me Julio asked him in advance of the sale if he'd fix the seat if anyone called about it. So once again this proves he knew the condition of the seat in advance. Not only that if the seats were from his own Talon as he claimed he would have to know the true condition.

I will post up some pics of the damage to the seat. It is pretty clear this came from a car that was hit on the drivers side hard enough to damage the seat.

In my opinion Julio blatantly lied to me and intentionally sold me a completely useless and dangerously unsafe item. For $300 I got a 10 year old passenger seat.

If you knew it was broken Julio but could get it fixed you should have told me upfront so don't even start about that. At an absolute minimum you were pedaling items for someone else and making claims you should not have been making and telling little lies to keep the story sounding believeable.

Julio I'm not trying to start a fight just reporting on how I saw the transaction go down. Read what you want from this guys but personally I won't deal with Julio again. If you have had good or bad dealings with him you might want to add them here so we get a clearer picture. I hate writing these things.

You want to make things up? Don't offer to have someone fix it (that you arranged before hand), offer to buy it back for $150 (and since a repaired seat is not the same as an undamaged one). If you have more to add to this story please go ahead but from what I have in front of me I just can't see any other conclusion.

(p.s. Vlad your money is on the way )

Hey Mike, if you need the upper seat assy' i have one , you will just have to remove the cover and cushion... Carl

Thanks Carl, I'll check how damaged the bracket on the main seat is to see if just the backrest can be replaced.

Hey Mike I dont consider this an invite for a fight ,nor would I be upset at the fact that you called me a liar. I weigh in at just under 200lbs and im 5'10 and drove fine with that seat . I did feel some ackwordness at one point so I brought it to marco for inspection. One Bracket had a slight tear wich was re welded .

After it was rewelded I sat in it and it fully recliened back.

The seats had wear do to the fact that they were used, that is to be expected. The motor for the seats worked fine giving you all the motions it was intended to give.

After you sent an e-mail you had stated that the seats were broken and both seats had misfunctions, but how could that be?

I stated in a response "mark if their are any problems with the seat then bring it back and I will make shure they get fixed via iether threw marco or some one else (indicating i could take it to a dealer).

You never responded back , nor contacted me at all , and yet insted of pm'ing me you write a good guy bad guy story, warning ppl about a seat that had a flawed bracket wich I so happend to sell you.

I did say im sorry mike ,, what would you have me say , screw off ,,too bad,,, no im not that type of guy. I offered and you didnt take my offer so what is their to talk about ? I a few months ago I gave you the opportunaty to let me pay for the costs of making that driver seat bracket new,,, wich you did not take instead you ignored me.

I have never stiffed anybody on money for their products or services . All the parts I had sold were deliverd with the exception of you'r self and another buyer wich were to far for my ttc taking pedestrian walking self.

Thats right Mike im not going to jump on a bus with two seats from toronto to kitchener , for seats at 150 a peice.

I tried making you feel better about the deal by offering to fix it but why paint a picture that portrays me like a picaso?

Well other patrons off this board whom have met me and delt with me know im a very nice guy whom hasnt done them harm even when im sold something that in my opinion could have been cheaper.

I dont borrow stuff and not give it back I dont take ppls money and not ship them anything , So why make me sound like a bad guy?

The seat had a worn out bracket wich was reinforced, ok you sat in it it felt wierd so you check it , I offer to fix it and you never contact me again.

End of story Mike my car was never side swiped and I dont peddle crap, so dont make aqusations because then thats an invite, the bracket was torn and rewelded,was my offer for a new bracket not enough ? Who knows why after so many months you decide not to pm me but to write up a bad guy bio , I really dont care .

I have been fair with every one including you , as to how I've sold stuff ,, but if it's any consolidation to you Mike im sorry you didnt want to take my offer.

I never said both seats were damaged here's my email:

">Why did you sell me a broken drivers seat? The whole back rest is broken
>on both sides. Its impossible that you would not notice just sitting back
>in it like I just did after installing it.
>
>Mike J"

Now above you said:

"I did feel some ackwordness at one point so I brought it to marco for inspection. One Bracket had a slight tear wich was re welded .

After it was rewelded I sat in it and it fully recliened back.
"-Julio

Now you admit you knew it was broken and you had it fixed but here's what you said in your email to me after I called you out:

"my most sencierest appologies as I hadnt noticed. They did feel funny to me
when I baught the car but I thought it was the norm."

There was no mention of knowing that there was a bracket problem or a reweld. I'm not even getting a consistant story here so don't fault me if I draw some off target possible scenarios.

I just can't see any way that you did not know about the condition of the seats so I think you intentionally sold me crap. Yes you offered to have it repaired but that doesn't make up for selling me crap in the first place if you knew it was crap sorry. You should have told me it crap up front. I was just so pissed I didn't even reply.

I stayed quiet for months because I didn't want to stir the pot but seeing your rant about Magnus, your sig and you chiming in all the time about members treating eachother properly when making deals I felt I had to say something.

If I'm wrong then I'm wrong and it will all come out in the wash. People can make up thier own minds and can offer thier sides of the story and/or good dealings with you that's why these threads are open. If you have a single deal go bad once in a while your name will stay fairly clean with time. So I hope you mean everything you say and I hope this was just a bump in the road.

Well so I pulled the seat up from the basement this evening. You can see the damage yourself.

It's not quite as bad as I remember so I take back the side impact statement. But it's still bad and makes the seat unuseable. If I knew about this I would not have bought the seats especially at that price. Looking at it again it seems an entire new backrest might just be all it needs (no damage to the main braket).

***note: some of the pics show 2 bolts in the bracket, the top one I added afterwards in an attempt to get enough regiditty to make it useable. The first 2 pics show the best I could get which was not usable. The rest of the pics with only one bolt show the state I got the seat in. There was a small 12mm bolt jammed in there but not even threaded into anything and fell out quickly with a little back and forth movement.
















Your new story of it being broken then rewelded seems to check out Julio. If you had told me there had been some work done on it up front and not said "amazing' or "operational" I'd have no issue with this transaction. I mean you didn't even admit there was work done to it after I confronted you about it in the email... not until this post came up. I do grant you offering to fix it but if you knew it was bad and made arrangements with Magnus prior to the sale for me to get it fixed don't you think you could have fixed it before hand not to mention inform me of this serious safety risk?

Sorry for any off target conclusions (pedalling wares, side impact) but when all I have is an obviously broken seat and some half truths to work with what do you expect?

Not sure what force can snap the bracket just above the black bracket (weld) and snap it off the two welds to the main U shaped bar that goes around the top of the backrest.

Well Mike since you have the seat in front of you , is it safe to say the bracket is replacable?

If so their should be a part number on it ,wich is visible in the 6th picture, im shure a mitsubishi or chrysler dealer will have the bracket.

As far as the name calling and assumption making ,well ,I can under stand, considering everyone has hit a bump in the road at least once.


If you want I will drive up in about three weeks when my car is fully operational ,and exchange the bracket for you. It seems like my offer is still on the table to replace the bracket, I just hope this time you will take it,and we can put an end to this post that could have been fixed with a simple pm,,

well will you except my offer?

i bought an intercooler with the piping fro julio items were in good condition i would deal with him again

Julio I really appreciate you making a sincere attempt to make things right, that says a lot . Sorry for assuming your first offer was just a fart in the wind, I guess I was just so ticked because I needed the seat so bad and couldn't afford the time to drive to Magnus. I should have contacted you back to find some kind of arrangement. We'll see what we can work out.

I talked with Julio today and he's sincere in wanting to make things right. **** happens in life sometimes and this seems to be one of those times so I'm putting this behind me.